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2015 Tiers (DL/LB/DB updated 7/5) (1 Viewer)

Updated DL tiers w/ additional commentary and strategy after free agent movement -- http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=15bramel_defensive_line_tiers_post_2015FA

Working to get LB written up this weekend. With luck, I'll get that done. There will be no DB tiers until after the draft. I'm going to focus on getting through as many front seven prospects as I can this month and put draft preview together. Should be a podcast reviewing the offseason so far coming soon, too.

 
One thing you might want to look into is Matthews, word here in Wisconsin is that he is expected to likely retain if not increase his ILB work. I know thats the rumor as the Packers really have not addressed ILB at this point. They likely will look to do something in the draft but it seems they feel comfortable with him working from the inside.

Could be off base but just thought you should know.

 
TDorBust said:
One thing you might want to look into is Matthews, word here in Wisconsin is that he is expected to likely retain if not increase his ILB work. I know thats the rumor as the Packers really have not addressed ILB at this point. They likely will look to do something in the draft but it seems they feel comfortable with him working from the inside.

Could be off base but just thought you should know.
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Here is an article on ESPN about this

Let's start with the first question. There's no doubt Matthews was skeptical about the move when coach Mike McCarthy and defensive coordinator Dom Capers approached him about it during last year's bye week. He admitted as much early on after he moved to inside linebacker last November. At the time, he said: "Yeah, in a perfect world, I'd love to line up outside 100 percent of the time [and] get sacks." As the season progressed, he seemed more at peace with the move, but perhaps he thought it was just a temporary thing.

Which brings us to the next question. Based on what McCarthy said this past week at the NFL owners meetings, it sounds as though they like playing Matthews on the inside at least some of the time. McCarthy said Matthews made "a huge impact playing inside linebacker, bigger than I think all of us would've imagined."

So, maybe there isn't a huge push to move Matthews back to outside linebacker on a full-time basis. In fact, McCarthy said several players made unsolicited comments to him after the season about Matthews playing on the inside. "I know his teammates in the exit interview, a number of them just brought that up outside of the conversation, what a big impact he made when he went inside and played the way he did," McCarthy said. "His teammates not only respect Clay on how he plays the outside linebacker position but the respect that they have for him as a football player grew up a lot higher."

Much could depend on what the Packers do in the draft and how second-year pro Carl Bradford, who didn't play a single snap on defense last year, performs. But for now, it appears Matthews' days as only an outside linebacker might be over.

 
Given the lack of quality linebackers in this draft id be surprised if the pack make it a priority. Barrington in one spot, hopefully Bradford in the other, but if it doesn't work more Clay is plan b with whatever rookie they draft serving as developmental depth.

 
I think Telvin Smith finishes much higher than T3. I think Jacksovilles offense will still give the defense lots of time on the field and he will be their best LB'er this year. Poz is not the athlete Smith is and I can see these two close on tackles and Smith with the edge on big plays. I personally see Smith as a high two or low one. In four of the last six games Smith had double digit tackles including a 15 and 16 tackle games.

 
I really like Zach Brown as an attacking ILB in the system LeBeau will be bringing to Tennessee. He has more straight line speed and explosion than Avery Williamson in my opinion. His injury was to his pectoral, and not his wheels. Plus, he is still only 25 years old.

 
Jene Bramel said:
FUBAR said:
Jene - would like your thoughts on two pass rush LBs I think at least belong on the dynasty stash list, though you might not be going deep on the rushing LBs due to many leagues undervaluing that role.

Kyle Van Noy - didn't do much last year after being injured, but should be a stash or someone to keep an eye on.

Alex Okafor - made a decent LB4 in big play leagues when he returned from injury, played better than Hali (whom you have listed) and should only get better.
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I still like Van Noy -- but I'm not sure I see a clear every-down role for him and there's a lot of competition for tackles right now, which could be a long term issue if the Lions keep that DT group together.

Okafor deserves another look for the matchup rush LB tier, thanks.
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arrest this month keeping him out or is there more to it?

 
Jene Bramel said:
Updated LB tiers w/ strategy and discussion. Have nearly 100 names tiered with blurbs in this update. Thanks for reading.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=15bramel_linebacker_tiers_post_2015FA
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no love for Junior Galette as a rush LB? 40+ tackles and 10 sacks a a season as a starter. he - like the rest of the saints defense - took the season off but the productive recent history is there. he could be helped by having Jordan returning to form, drafting a credible rush OLB opposite him, and improvements made to the backfield.

 
saintfool said:
Jene Bramel said:
Updated LB tiers w/ strategy and discussion. Have nearly 100 names tiered with blurbs in this update. Thanks for reading.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=15bramel_linebacker_tiers_post_2015FA
Click to expand...
no love for Junior Galette as a rush LB? 40+ tackles and 10 sacks a a season as a starter. he - like the rest of the saints defense - took the season off but the productive recent history is there. he could be helped by having Jordan returning to form, drafting a credible rush OLB opposite him, and improvements made to the backfield.
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He's in the DL Tiers
 
Frank Costanza said:
saintfool said:
Jene Bramel said:
Updated LB tiers w/ strategy and discussion. Have nearly 100 names tiered with blurbs in this update. Thanks for reading. http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=15bramel_linebacker_tiers_post_2015FA
Click to expand...
no love for Junior Galette as a rush LB? 40+ tackles and 10 sacks a a season as a starter. he - like the rest of the saints defense - took the season off but the productive recent history is there. he could be helped by having Jordan returning to form, drafting a credible rush OLB opposite him, and improvements made to the backfield.
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He's in the DL Tiers
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I don't think Galette is a DL, but I'm leaving him there with the note about possible reclassification for now.

 
PlayaHata said:
Thanks for all of your IDP work, Jene! Any idea if/when DB tiers will be released?
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Goal is to get the combined draft board up ASAP, then work back through all three positional tiers. Ordinarily, I'd say the tier features would be ready within 2-3 weeks of the draft, but I don't want to make any promises just yet.

 
Jene Bramel said:
pyite76 said:
Not sure I understand this. On the Patriots website Jones/Ninkovich are both listed as DEs. Patriots play a hybrid, correct?
Click to expand...
Every defense should probably be considered multiple now, yes. The Patriots decided their best front had Jones at 5-technique during the preseason, with Hightower and Ninkovich as OLB and Collins and Mayo inside. They were already experimenting with ways to move Jones around in the last weeks of the preseason and early weeks of the regular season. After Mayo's injury and the struggles with player depth along the line, they began standing Jones up more as the season progressed. After he returned from his hip injury, Jones was almost exclusively a standup linebacker. Ninkovich played the majority of his snaps from a two point stance all season.

In recent seasons, the Pats had leaned heavily 4-3 -- so that's how Rotoworld had them through the preseason. By the time it was more clear the Patriots would approach 2014 differently, it was past the time when MFL made positional changes. I don't use RW depth charts expect when I do tiers, so I don't know when their charts moved those two players from DE to LB.

The team websites are not official charts and aren't much help. The gamebooks are also messy. They list three defensive tackles with Jones and Ninkovich at DE a number of times last year.

This is not set in stone at all.

If Mayo is healthy, the Patriots will look at Hightower, Jones, Ninkovich, Easley and a couple of other rotational linemen and decide how to best use them. I think there's a good chance we see Jones at RDE and Ninkovich and Hightower as 3-4 OLB again to get both Mayo and Collins on the field inside. For now, Jones and Ninkovich are listed at LB on MFL. I'll note all this in the blurbs that accompany these players in the tiers. In fact, for clarity's sake, I may put an entire sidebar together on this situation.
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Jene,

I just double checked and Rotoworld still has both Jones and Ninkovic listed at DL.

As you said, this was the case going into last season and if they changed them to LB during the season I was not aware of it as they were DL on MFL all season. If Rotoworld did move them to LB during the season, they have since switched them back to DL.

In case it is helpful...

 
J Giles Band said:
Jene Bramel said:
pyite76 said:
Not sure I understand this. On the Patriots website Jones/Ninkovich are both listed as DEs. Patriots play a hybrid, correct?
Click to expand...
Every defense should probably be considered multiple now, yes. The Patriots decided their best front had Jones at 5-technique during the preseason, with Hightower and Ninkovich as OLB and Collins and Mayo inside. They were already experimenting with ways to move Jones around in the last weeks of the preseason and early weeks of the regular season. After Mayo's injury and the struggles with player depth along the line, they began standing Jones up more as the season progressed. After he returned from his hip injury, Jones was almost exclusively a standup linebacker. Ninkovich played the majority of his snaps from a two point stance all season.

In recent seasons, the Pats had leaned heavily 4-3 -- so that's how Rotoworld had them through the preseason. By the time it was more clear the Patriots would approach 2014 differently, it was past the time when MFL made positional changes. I don't use RW depth charts expect when I do tiers, so I don't know when their charts moved those two players from DE to LB.

The team websites are not official charts and aren't much help. The gamebooks are also messy. They list three defensive tackles with Jones and Ninkovich at DE a number of times last year.

This is not set in stone at all.

If Mayo is healthy, the Patriots will look at Hightower, Jones, Ninkovich, Easley and a couple of other rotational linemen and decide how to best use them. I think there's a good chance we see Jones at RDE and Ninkovich and Hightower as 3-4 OLB again to get both Mayo and Collins on the field inside. For now, Jones and Ninkovich are listed at LB on MFL. I'll note all this in the blurbs that accompany these players in the tiers. In fact, for clarity's sake, I may put an entire sidebar together on this situation.
Click to expand...
Jene,

I just double checked and Rotoworld still has both Jones and Ninkovic listed at DL.

As you said, this was the case going into last season and if they changed them to LB during the season I was not aware of it as they were DL on MFL all season. If Rotoworld did move them to LB during the season, they have since switched them back to DL.

In case it is helpful...
Click to expand...
Jerry Hughes too, but I swore they have them both at LB a couple months back.

 
Maybe this should be posted elsewhere but I'd love to find some "deeper" DL sleepers. Like the kind of guy you'd find on a 16-team IDP/dynasty waiver wire. I know that's like finding a needle in a haystack but thought I'd at least see if anyone has a good list/resource/etc.

As always, Jene, this stuff is so incredibly helpful and a great read.

 
How about Lamur (CIN) and Hightower (NE)? Are they not included in the tiers because there is just too much uncertainty surrounding them, or was it an oversight? Both are 25 years old, and scored relatively well when healthy last year. But, there are certainly some risks. Lamur graded out very poorly as an OLB last season. And, obviously, the NE situation is still very much up in the air.

Would it be reasonable to place them in either of the LB3 tiers, or is that too optimistic?

 
Jene Bramel said:
pyite76 said:
Not sure I understand this. On the Patriots website Jones/Ninkovich are both listed as DEs. Patriots play a hybrid, correct?
Click to expand...
Every defense should probably be considered multiple now, yes. The Patriots decided their best front had Jones at 5-technique during the preseason, with Hightower and Ninkovich as OLB and Collins and Mayo inside. They were already experimenting with ways to move Jones around in the last weeks of the preseason and early weeks of the regular season. After Mayo's injury and the struggles with player depth along the line, they began standing Jones up more as the season progressed. After he returned from his hip injury, Jones was almost exclusively a standup linebacker. Ninkovich played the majority of his snaps from a two point stance all season.

In recent seasons, the Pats had leaned heavily 4-3 -- so that's how Rotoworld had them through the preseason. By the time it was more clear the Patriots would approach 2014 differently, it was past the time when MFL made positional changes. I don't use RW depth charts expect when I do tiers, so I don't know when their charts moved those two players from DE to LB.

The team websites are not official charts and aren't much help. The gamebooks are also messy. They list three defensive tackles with Jones and Ninkovich at DE a number of times last year.

This is not set in stone at all.

If Mayo is healthy, the Patriots will look at Hightower, Jones, Ninkovich, Easley and a couple of other rotational linemen and decide how to best use them. I think there's a good chance we see Jones at RDE and Ninkovich and Hightower as 3-4 OLB again to get both Mayo and Collins on the field inside. For now, Jones and Ninkovich are listed at LB on MFL. I'll note all this in the blurbs that accompany these players in the tiers. In fact, for clarity's sake, I may put an entire sidebar together on this situation.
Click to expand...
What is the situation with this? Rotoworld has c.Jones as DL?

Is that going to change or what?

 
Mike McCarthy: Clay Matthews will continue to play multiple positionsBy Tyler Dunne of the Journal Sentinel
Green Bay – Highlights from coach Mike McCarthy's Thursday news conference...

On three players back from ACL's... All the guys are in the category of working out, have done really well. Since March, those guys haven't missed a beat. Feel good about the progress those guys are making. No long-term concerns with anybody on the roster.

On everyone being back... It's been a good two days. This is a fun time of year. Everybody likes to be back. The reality is -- felt good today, felt good yesterday --- but you see film and have to teach team how to practice. Felt good about Phase 2 and the work we were able to get done. Young guys picking it up. And now, we're in the phase of putting it on the field. Mental errors are high. We need to learn how to practice. We have new coaches working different combinations. We spent a whole off-season making improvements throughout our program. We're just starting. It's great to be out there but we have a lot of work to do. | May 28, 2015 1:43 p.m. »Read Full Blog Post(4)
 
Golden Gopher said:
How about Lamur (CIN) and Hightower (NE)? Are they not included in the tiers because there is just too much uncertainty surrounding them, or was it an oversight? Both are 25 years old, and scored relatively well when healthy last year. But, there are certainly some risks. Lamur graded out very poorly as an OLB last season. And, obviously, the NE situation is still very much up in the air.

Would it be reasonable to place them in either of the LB3 tiers, or is that too optimistic?
Click to expand...
I think Lamur showed he's not an 800 snap player last year. I think it's likely that Burfict's injury issues linger deep into training camp and potentially the early weeks of the regular season, though, so Lamur isn't entirely off my radar. I believe the Bengals would prefer to have Hawk and Dawson win the OLB jobs if Burfict is out. But Lamur would have a shot at a subpackage role with that group (and Maualuga) starting. Even if Lamur wins a full time job in the first month of the season, I don't see consistent top 25-30 upside.

The New England front seven is extremely crowded. I like Hightower, but the only ILB I feel comfortable projecting to 80%+ snaps is Jamie Collins. If Mayo struggles or the Patriots use a lot of creative subpackages, Hightower could get to 800 snaps. Until we know more, he'll stay near the top of my tier jumper list.

 
Bazinga! said:
Jene Bramel said:
Linebacker tiers and discussion updated today
Click to expand...
Jene what are your thoughts on Barrow(Denver). With Marshals foot injury, Barrrow could see an opportunity. I know Elway had positive things to say about him last year and thinks he has 3 down ability.
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Still on my dynasty watch/stash list for the reasons you mentioned. With the injuries the Broncos had last season, it would've been nice to see Barrow threaten for playing time late last season. With Marshall still no lock for training camp, though, the depth chart still bears monitoring.

Lamin Barrow <> Still on my watch list but solely due to Elway’s praise after drafting him
 
saintfool said:
Jene Bramel said:
Linebacker tiers and discussion updated today
Click to expand...
Interested in your thoughts on Jordan Hicks as a dynasty stash. some chatter about how is the heir apparent in PHI once Kendricks moves on. he was productive, well regarded at Texas but injuries hurt his stock in the draft. marcus smith was added last year, i know, but he wasn't Chip's call. now, hicks is....
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I don't see much upside in Hicks. His testing was more impressive than he looked on the field at Senior Bowl practices, though, so I may be underrating him. And he should've been listed in the dynasty watch section alongside Ramik Wilson and Ben Heeney.

 
Jene Bramel said:
I think Lamur showed he's not an 800 snap player last year. I think it's likely that Burfict's injury issues linger deep into training camp and potentially the early weeks of the regular season, though, so Lamur isn't entirely off my radar. I believe the Bengals would prefer to have Hawk and Dawson win the OLB jobs if Burfict is out. But Lamur would have a shot at a subpackage role with that group (and Maualuga) starting. Even if Lamur wins a full time job in the first month of the season, I don't see consistent top 25-30 upside.
Click to expand...
What about Vincent Rey? Did he miss his chance to become a starter, and thus isn't worth future consideration?

 
I'm interested in any further thoughts on Telvin Smith, Jelani Jenkins and Christian Jones. I'm quite high on Smith and think he can build on his huge weeks towards the end of last year, but I'm just a bit worried that the return of Poz (even though it did seem like he was slowing down last season) has the potential to cut into his production and lower his ceiling. Not sure if that should be a legitimate concern since he should still be an every down player.

Jenkins feels like the LB equivalent one of those average RBs who you talk yourself into reaching for because of excellent opportunity, but are ultimately disappointed by. He had a number of good games last year and the Dolphins didn't really bring in any LB competition. I'll probably target him but wonder whether he is trustworthy as an LB2 and if the Dolphins see him as a player they can rely on to anchor the defense at LB.

Finally, I was pretty bullish on Jones going into the offseason and thought he could be a big value this year after a strong finish to last year, but between a new defense, bringing in Mason Fostee to play ILB and talk of Jones being used more as a pass rusher, I don't really know what to think. If he's used as more than just a rotation player, I'm still interested as a late pick, but I have no feel for what his role will be.

 
Don't want to start a new topic for this, but I'm really confused about the talk of Chandler Jones switch?

Does anyone really what is chance of Chandler Jones to switch position?

Don't want to have a great DE that will be turned into semi-good lb in september.

 
RushHour said:
I'm interested in any further thoughts on Telvin Smith, Jelani Jenkins and Christian Jones. I'm quite high on Smith and think he can build on his huge weeks towards the end of last year, but I'm just a bit worried that the return of Poz (even though it did seem like he was slowing down last season) has the potential to cut into his production and lower his ceiling. Not sure if that should be a legitimate concern since he should still be an every down player.

Jenkins feels like the LB equivalent one of those average RBs who you talk yourself into reaching for because of excellent opportunity, but are ultimately disappointed by. He had a number of good games last year and the Dolphins didn't really bring in any LB competition. I'll probably target him but wonder whether he is trustworthy as an LB2 and if the Dolphins see him as a player they can rely on to anchor the defense at LB.

Finally, I was pretty bullish on Jones going into the offseason and thought he could be a big value this year after a strong finish to last year, but between a new defense, bringing in Mason Fostee to play ILB and talk of Jones being used more as a pass rusher, I don't really know what to think. If he's used as more than just a rotation player, I'm still interested as a late pick, but I have no feel for what his role will be.
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I am also interested in Telvin Smith. Seems he has been slow to climb the rankings in a lot of places (not necessarily here). He flat out balled last season and I think he will only get better.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
RushHour said:
Finally, I was pretty bullish on Jones going into the offseason and thought he could be a big value this year after a strong finish to last year, but between a new defense, bringing in Mason Fostee to play ILB and talk of Jones being used more as a pass rusher, I don't really know what to think. If he's used as more than just a rotation player, I'm still interested as a late pick, but I have no feel for what his role will be.
Click to expand...
i cut bait after the Mason Foster signing. There is was too much chatter about how almost everyone but Jones was going to get a crack at the other ILB. This on top of the uncertainty at the OLB spots and whatnot. Life's too short to deal with that kind of drama. Jones did well last year but that defense is getting such an overhaul to 3-4. i'd rather see if i can snag jones mid-season after the struggles it will surely have in the early going.

 
Fireinside said:
Don't want to start a new topic for this, but I'm really confused about the talk of Chandler Jones switch?

Does anyone really what is chance of Chandler Jones to switch position?

Don't want to have a great DE that will be turned into semi-good lb in september.
Click to expand...
Rotoworld depth charts had him at LB a month or so ago but he's been back at DE since. Hopefully he'll stay there. Heard is 3rd on the depth chart according to them so he could be a sleeper, but who knows?

 
roim said:
Jene Bramel said:
I think Lamur showed he's not an 800 snap player last year. I think it's likely that Burfict's injury issues linger deep into training camp and potentially the early weeks of the regular season, though, so Lamur isn't entirely off my radar. I believe the Bengals would prefer to have Hawk and Dawson win the OLB jobs if Burfict is out. But Lamur would have a shot at a subpackage role with that group (and Maualuga) starting. Even if Lamur wins a full time job in the first month of the season, I don't see consistent top 25-30 upside.
Click to expand...
What about Vincent Rey? Did he miss his chance to become a starter, and thus isn't worth future consideration?
Click to expand...
Rey played well enough against the run, but I think he's going to struggle for playing time if Burfict can return and Dawson looks capable of playing in the base defense. I don't see any consistent or long term value in him.

 
RushHour said:
I'm interested in any further thoughts on Telvin Smith, Jelani Jenkins and Christian Jones. I'm quite high on Smith and think he can build on his huge weeks towards the end of last year, but I'm just a bit worried that the return of Poz (even though it did seem like he was slowing down last season) has the potential to cut into his production and lower his ceiling. Not sure if that should be a legitimate concern since he should still be an every down player.

Jenkins feels like the LB equivalent one of those average RBs who you talk yourself into reaching for because of excellent opportunity, but are ultimately disappointed by. He had a number of good games last year and the Dolphins didn't really bring in any LB competition. I'll probably target him but wonder whether he is trustworthy as an LB2 and if the Dolphins see him as a player they can rely on to anchor the defense at LB.

Finally, I was pretty bullish on Jones going into the offseason and thought he could be a big value this year after a strong finish to last year, but between a new defense, bringing in Mason Fostee to play ILB and talk of Jones being used more as a pass rusher, I don't really know what to think. If he's used as more than just a rotation player, I'm still interested as a late pick, but I have no feel for what his role will be.
Click to expand...
I think Smith will be fine. There's enough opportunity for Poz, Smith, and Cyprien to put up solid tackle numbers. I think Smith still has a LB2 (top15) ceiling.

Until the Dolphins re-address the linebacker position with other athletic coverage options, Jenkins is trustworthy. Durability is the primary concern with Jenkins for me.

I'm a Vic Fangio fan but I don't understand the Foster-McClellin pair with the first team in OTAs. There's still a long way to go before late August and I see Bostic (if healthy) and Jones factoring in at some point. If you're stuck making a decision now, I'd rank them Foster>Jones=Bostic>>McClellin but wouldn't invest much in any yet.

 
Fireinside said:
Don't want to start a new topic for this, but I'm really confused about the talk of Chandler Jones switch?

Does anyone really what is chance of Chandler Jones to switch position?

Don't want to have a great DE that will be turned into semi-good lb in september.
Click to expand...
Belichick isn't going to show his hand anytime soon. There will be a lot of inertia with this one at Rotoworld. They have posted their opinion that the Patriots are moving to a 4-3 for weeks. I don't necessarily disagree, but I think it'll take seeing Jones as a standup linebacker in multiple packages for his listing to change.

 
Rotoworld depth charts have Clay Matthews listed as an ILB now. That may be the case but wouldn't be surprised if Ryan or someone else replaces him there this season.

 
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