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gianmarco

***Official Melvin "Flash" Gordon*** Thread of Love

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44 minutes ago, buddhacwru said:

Wow this is huge news.  I'm shocked they didn't draft a running back late in the draft.  I suppose this explains why he underachieved last year.  I'm not sure what my draft strategy will be with SD RBs but I will likely target Woodhead in PPR leagues.

Woodhead seems like he's gonna continue his improbable run of PPR fantasy relevance into his 40s.

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23 minutes ago, bombjack said:

Probably relevant in this thread now:

7 NFL players who overcame Myles Jack's biggest red flag

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-draft-myles-jack-knee-injury-microfracture-overcome-reggie-bush-042916

That list is pretty encouraging. This article lists several other names and supposedly linked to a list of 61 players who had the procedure prior to Oct 2007, when the article was written, but the link is broken.

It isn't clear from the article how many of the players studied really came back effectively from the surgery. But there were only a couple of skill position players listed (and does that matter?). It is notable that Kellen Winslow had the surgery in Jan 2007 and had the best season of his career in 2007.

Edited by Just Win Baby

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How do the Chargers doctors not catch this before they trade up to get him?

 

not a doctor here, but it seems he's back relatively quickly if he practices at OTAs.  Could be he got a micro fracture of a small area as opposed to the entire surface.  Think Colston had a similar procedure done in the middle of his career.

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1 hour ago, Steed said:

How do the Chargers doctors not catch this before they trade up to get him?

Didn't this happen at the end of last season as a Charger?  This wasn't something from his college season.

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Just now, Hu-Tang Clan said:

Didn't this happen at the end of last season as a Charger?  This wasn't something from his college season.

Yeah tore some cartilage end of the season. 

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1 hour ago, Steed said:

How do the Chargers doctors not catch this before they trade up to get him?

 

not a doctor here, but it seems he's back relatively quickly if he practices at OTAs.  Could be he got a micro fracture of a small area as opposed to the entire surface.  Think Colston had a similar procedure done in the middle of his career.

Could be. Not all microfractures are the same. Not only the size of the area but also the location. 

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1 minute ago, fruity pebbles said:

Yeah tore some cartilage end of the season. 

Yeah that's how I read it too, it's just that some posters above seemed to think this is why he had a poor season which is irrelevant to his injury.

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San Diego sports talk radio had Dr. Chow on this morning, and he said he thinks it's telling that after inevitably reading the post operative reports, xrays, etc., he thinks it's telling that the 4-6 month time frame was used as opposed to the longer time frame, and also telling that Telesco apparently felt comfortable enough not to sign a FA RB or even draft one.

:shrug:  Nothing to do but hope for the best at this point and assume those who have ALL the information and their jobs on the line are correct.  

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2 hours ago, tommyGunZ said:

San Diego sports talk radio had Dr. Chow on this morning, and he said he thinks it's telling that after inevitably reading the post operative reports, xrays, etc., he thinks it's telling that the 4-6 month time frame was used as opposed to the longer time frame, and also telling that Telesco apparently felt comfortable enough not to sign a FA RB or even draft one.

I think it's also telling that Telesco chose to go into last year with Watt as his starting C. And telling he thought Carrethers was a starting NT. It's telling he has a 34yo Rivers and appears to be grooming a 33yo Kellen Clemens to take over for him one day. And telling he still considers Addae a starting S in the NFL when you have a S on the field every down. It's telling he has used two 2nd rounders, and two 4th rounders on three ILB's.... when the DC says they play in base defense 30% of the time.

I think these things are telling, but they tell me something different about Telesco's decisions than they tell you.

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3 hours ago, tommyGunZ said:

San Diego sports talk radio had Dr. Chow on this morning, and he said he thinks it's telling that after inevitably reading the post operative reports, xrays, etc., he thinks it's telling that the 4-6 month time frame was used as opposed to the longer time frame, and also telling that Telesco apparently felt comfortable enough not to sign a FA RB or even draft one.

:shrug:  Nothing to do but hope for the best at this point and assume those who have ALL the information and their jobs on the line are correct.  

Dr. Chow, the ex-Chargers team doctor who has been sued over and over and over again for being an awful hack of a doctor that should have been fired years ago? Not sure a SD sports talk radio show should be letting him call in at all. Really his story is horrible, read a big expose article about him and his practice.

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 Well, we can dissect this however we like, but now there is much more risk.  

 The good news he is young, and even if he has an "off season" (which I suppose we can all agree that last season was off) he still has the ability to possibly have a decent career, even if this year seems a bit lost.

Also, if they are still viewing him as ready to go near training camp, then thats a good thing.

 For those of us who are still Gordon believers, this news coupled with the poor last season may well be a blessing. Hopefully this keeps his price awfully damn low going into drafts. Unless he has a major problem in the preseason, I will likely try and snag him in a few leagues.

 

 In the last few days Melvin Gordon has been falling, falling and falling further in the mocks I have done.  I have seen him fall to the 9th-10th a few times, and sign me up if I can get him there.

 

 

 TZM

Edited by TZMarkie

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the timing of this news couldn't be better.  Most rookie draft will be getting started and I'll be offering a pick to Gordon owners

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36 minutes ago, KellysHeroes said:

the timing of this news couldn't be better.  Most rookie draft will be getting started and I'll be offering a pick to Gordon owners

which one.  I can turn my 4 pick into him, but that may be too rich.

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13 minutes ago, matttyl said:

which one.  I can turn my 4 pick into him, but that may be too rich.

Get a 2017 pick back, atleast a 2nd

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15 minutes ago, Faust said:

I can't help but wonder if this telegraphs run plays unless SD fundamentally changes its offense and uses a FB on pass plays. McCoy has de-empasized the FB position since he arrived and focused the offense on getting Rivers as many targets as possible to get the ball out of his hands quickly. I trust Rivers reading the defense and finding one of many receivers in a favorable matchup much, much more than I trust their ability to pass block for him while he waits for fewer receivers to work their way open.

This feels like a step backward unless you have a FB that can block(run and pass), run short yardage, and is a receiving threat. I have my doubts Watt fits that bill. Seems limited, and appears as a desperate move by Telesco to give Linus his blanket and hide the fact three picks for Gordon was an idiotic move. 

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49 minutes ago, KellysHeroes said:

I don't think the FB will be out there often, most likey on 3rd and shorts and GLs

We'll see. No one really knows yet if Gordon can succeed as a NFL runner without one. They might have to use one on more than short yardage plays if that's what it takes to get him going.

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Value seems very split on Gordon right now.  In my league, no one will even entertain a deal for him. Crazy. I'm holding.

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23 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

Value seems very split on Gordon right now.  In my league, no one will even entertain a deal for him. Crazy. I'm holding.

 

 His value seems so low (compared to what I think it should be) I doubt I would want to deal him either.

 I'd prefer to consider him a "strong hold" and he could well be a great back this year.  Like I mentioned, I hope the people just let him fall, fall and FALL some more before the drafts.

 In fact I'd pray they bench him and only "knock the rust off him" very sparsely in the preseason, and hopefully he has no big plays, thereby keeping the hype silenced.

 This scenario could well be one of those ultimate late round snags that helps people win leagues this year. (of course the opposite could be true also, in that he re-injures himself or he never lives up to his college promise)

  I'd hold him and watch what happens early on this season. Hopefully you aren't in a position where you must depend on him the first few weeks.

 

 

 

 TZM

Edited by TZMarkie

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3 Days ago....

Melvin Gordon (knee surgery) is participating "without sign of limitation" in San Diego's voluntary practices. Analysis: Gordon underwent an operation to clean up some cartilage damage in early January

 

I get that microfracture surgery can sound scary, but I am not going to worry if he is already taking part in voluntary training and will be ready in time for camps.  RB shelf life is short more often than not.  I still see him being successful the next few years for sure. I paid for him this offseason prior to getting the news and I don't have any buyer remorse. 

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1 hour ago, Carter_Can_Fly said:

3 Days ago....

Melvin Gordon (knee surgery) is participating "without sign of limitation" in San Diego's voluntary practices. Analysis: Gordon underwent an operation to clean up some cartilage damage in early January

 

I get that microfracture surgery can sound scary, but I am not going to worry if he is already taking part in voluntary training and will be ready in time for camps.  RB shelf life is short more often than not.  I still see him being successful the next few years for sure. I paid for him this offseason prior to getting the news and I don't have any buyer remorse. 

All the news so far has been positive. Telesco has said that the specific location and size of the area to be addressed with microfracture surgery can make a big difference, and he has indicated that those factors are positive for Gordon. That being said, Gordon himself has been quoted within the past week as saying he isn't fully recovered yet, but is on track. IMO the more important sign is that the Chargers have not added a RB despite knowing about the surgery for months.

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34 minutes ago, Chaka said:

Can Watt catch?

Some people think the potential is there to be ok at receiving, but he didn't touch the ball much over his college career. In fact I am not certain he's considered all that great a blocker either. SD desperately needs a short yardage guy but he seems ill equiped for that based on his college career. Might contribute on special teams. 

Only 3 FB's were even drafted so I would have expected somewhere in the country there would have been a guy that was very good at..... SOMETHING. This guy doesn't seem quite like Swiss army knife, more like a chinese knock-off with the word "swis" on it.

But SD felt the need to draft him because they are strong everywhere else that Kyle Murphy, Brandon Allen, Mike Thomas, Jalen Mills, Jeremy Cash, Daniel Lasco, Charone Peake, Daniel Braverman, or Vadal Alexander wouldn't have a chance to even compete for a roster spot. You don't get to pick #3 in the draft without working at it.

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15 hours ago, TZMarkie said:

 

 His value seems so low (compared to what I think it should be) I doubt I would want to deal him either.

 I'd prefer to consider him a "strong hold" and he could well be a great back this year.  Like I mentioned, I hope the people just let him fall, fall and FALL some more before the drafts.

 In fact I'd pray they bench him and only "knock the rust off him" very sparsely in the preseason, and hopefully he has no big plays, thereby keeping the hype silenced.

 This scenario could well be one of those ultimate late round snags that helps people win leagues this year. (of course the opposite could be true also, in that he re-injures himself or he never lives up to his college promise)

  I'd hold him and watch what happens early on this season. Hopefully you aren't in a position where you must depend on him the first few weeks.

 

 

 

 TZM

I don't need to depend on him as I have Gurley and Elliot on my team. Definitely holding 

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So what exactly do people think his value is then? What would you sell for and what would you buy for in 2016 picks (pre fantasy rookie draft)?

Sell: 1.6

Buy: 1.10 

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12 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

All the news so far has been positive. Telesco has said that the specific location and size of the area to be addressed with microfracture surgery can make a big difference, and he has indicated that those factors are positive for Gordon. That being said, Gordon himself has been quoted within the past week as saying he isn't fully recovered yet, but is on track. IMO the more important sign is that the Chargers have not added a RB despite knowing about the surgery for months.

I would add that while people will often think that I hate the player(I absolutely hated the pick..... but not the player) I have always been encouraged by his attitude and work ethic. He's always in great shape and after having almost ZERO experience in the passing game in college I was very impressed with how quickly he picked up the receiving game. If you believe that type of work ethic can translate into work rehabbing from an injury that could help him come back from an injury so late in the season. I am certainly hoping for Gordons success, but Telesco should certainly be held accountable if the Gordon trade falls short.

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Turned on Chargers talk radio during the middle of a segment today when leaving work. It was in the middle of a quote by Eric Williams, the Chargers beat writer for ESPN. I heard Williams wrap up by saying, and they are going to play Oliver too, or something similar. Then the show host said, so Eric Williams thinks Melvin Gordon is going to play 40% of the snaps this year.

Since I didn't hear all of the segment, I don't know if he drew the right conclusion about Williams' opinion, but that is a pretty dismal take if it is accurate. Perhaps way off base, or perhaps a small red flag.

Then the show host went on to rip Gordon multiple times over the course of my drive home for skipping voluntary mini-camp to go to an endorsement event for Jockey. He said it was a widely held view around the Chargers organization that part of Gordon's poor play last season was that he did not know the playbook well enough, which I have heard multiple times before. If true, it would be good for him to be at every day of every offseason activity, even if he is just taking mental reps. Particularly since there is a new OC. If this turns out to be Gordon missing a single day, probably not a big deal... but perhaps an additional tiny red flag.

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Do we know what % of the snaps he played last year? I would have thought 40% was pretty high considering he missed an entire game..... and Woodhead is simply better at his role in the offense than Gordon is at his role in the offense.

Everyone healthy(including receivers) I expect Gordon to be off the field on passing downs and short yardage.... just like last year. Now, if Gates/Johnson/Allen get dinged up again as they are prone to do then I can envision more of the two RB sets Whis is talking about, but until then......

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55 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

Do we know what % of the snaps he played last year?

According to FBO Gordon played on 33% of the offensive snaps last year. Woodhead played on 50% Brown and Oliver combined for the other 17%

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Sure, he played 33% of the offensive snaps last season, but (a) he missed 2 games and (b) he was also semi-benched for 2 games for fumbling. Given those things plus the general disappointment of his season, I certainly would have expected him to play more than 40% this season. Let me put it another way, if he isn't good enough to play more than 40% of the snaps this season, then he most certainly was not worth what Telesco gave up to draft him.

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3 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Sure, he played 33% of the offensive snaps last season, but (a) he missed 2 games and (b) he was also semi-benched for 2 games for fumbling. Given those things plus the general disappointment of his season, I certainly would have expected him to play more than 40% this season. Let me put it another way, if he isn't good enough to play more than 40% of the snaps this season, then he most certainly was not worth what Telesco gave up to draft him.

Well, even 'Gunz would have a hard time arguing that point now. But Gordon is what he is. I just hope he continues to improve in the passing game because he will need to replace Woodhead soon due either to age or contract. I was really hoping they would pair Gordon up with a Howard-type banger between the tackles. Howard for short yardage, Gordon between the 20's, and Woodhead on passing downs would have been fantasy football poison..... but would have been better for the SD offense.

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13 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

Well, even 'Gunz would have a hard time arguing that point now. But Gordon is what he is. I just hope he continues to improve in the passing game because he will need to replace Woodhead soon due either to age or contract. I was really hoping they would pair Gordon up with a Howard-type banger between the tackles. Howard for short yardage, Gordon between the 20's, and Woodhead on passing downs would have been fantasy football poison..... but would have been better for the SD offense.

I don't put much weight on guesses from ESPN reporters as to playing time in mid-May.

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3 hours ago, tommyGunZ said:

I don't put much weight on guesses from ESPN reporters as to playing time in mid-May.

I am no fan of espn but I bet they are much closer to guessing the % of snaps Gordon plays this year after microfracture surgery then many Charger fans guessed last year in May. The guy was on the field 33% of the time BEFORE microfracture surgery last year. You might be surprised but there were people in the thread last year that said using three picks on a one-down player was a good move.

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4 hours ago, tommyGunZ said:

I don't put much weight on guesses from ESPN reporters as to playing time in mid-May.

I agree, but I'll note that I think Eric Williams is worth paying attention to. His mid-May guess is probably better than mine ... but it it's still just a guess, so not much weight should be put on it.

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Quote

Melvin Gordon (microfracture) is participating in individual drills at OTAs.

 

Per reporter Michael Gehlken, Gordon's rehab has "gone well." He's unlikely to take part in team drills before training camp, but all reports on his rehab have been positive. He has a good shot at avoiding the active/PUP list.
 
 
May 23 - 2:39 PM

 

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Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...SPAM :homer: 

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I have picked up Brandon Oliver in nearly every single dynasty league I am in because I would not be surprised if he out-gains Gordon this year. Oliver has looked pretty good whereas Gordon has been terrible and just underwent major surgery.

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4 hours ago, Miro Z said:

I have picked up Brandon Oliver in nearly every single dynasty league I am in because I would not be surprised if he out-gains Gordon this year. Oliver has looked pretty good whereas Gordon has been terrible and just underwent major surgery.

Interesting perspective.  Oliver sure looked great that one time or two but can he keep it together for the duration.

 

Honestly, as much as I hate to say it (I truly do), I think if Gordon doesn't take off this year then it becomes a lot of Danny Woodhead this year and the Chargers will be drafting one of these monsters coming out next year.

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On 5/17/2016 at 1:45 AM, Just Win Baby said:

Sure, he played 33% of the offensive snaps last season, but (a) he missed 2 games and (b) he was also semi-benched for 2 games for fumbling. Given those things plus the general disappointment of his season, I certainly would have expected him to play more than 40% this season. Let me put it another way, if he isn't good enough to play more than 40% of the snaps this season, then he most certainly was not worth what Telesco gave up to draft him.

The % of snaps he played last year was surprisingly low to me.  I would have guessed closer to 50%, even with the missed games.  15 RBs played on 50%+ of their team's snaps this past year,  with an additional 15 playing between 40-50%.  If he can't hit 40%, not only is he not worth what SD gave up to get him, he may not be worth drafting for fantasy at all in 2017 (or at least not in the first half dozen rounds or more).

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6 hours ago, Miro Z said:

I have picked up Brandon Oliver in nearly every single dynasty league I am in because I would not be surprised if he out-gains Gordon this year. Oliver has looked pretty good whereas Gordon has been terrible and just underwent major surgery.

IMO there is a chance that Oliver will be an ultimate successor to Woodhead, but I don't think the team sees him in the mold of a primary RB because of his size.

I think it would take significant injury to Woodhead or Gordon this year for him to get meaningful snaps this season. Even a continuing flop from Gordon probably wouldn't accomplish much for Oliver, since the team will feel compelled to give Gordon most or all of the season to come around, especially now that they could use the excuse that he might not be 100% coming off the surgery.

I suppose if Gordon were to open the season on the PUP list, the Chargers might try to make do with Oliver and Woodhead during that period. But if Chris Swain makes the team, he could fill the Gordon role in that scenario, since he is a bigger back. Same for Dreamius Smith, who was on the practice squad last year.

As for how Oliver has looked, he has looked okay as a receiver, but not so much as a runner. On 191 career carries, he has averaged 3.6 ypc and has 3 TDs. He also is not good in pass protection, which is a problem. I think he will make the team, but IMO he won't get many snaps.

Edited by Just Win Baby

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18 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

As for how Gordon has looked, he has looked okay as a receiver, but not so much as a runner. On 191 career carries, he has averaged 3.6 ypc and has 3 TDs. He also is not good in pass protection, which is a problem. I think he will make the team, but IMO he won't get many snaps.

 
 

Confused me for a second, but you mean Oliver here rather than Gordon. (As written, first sentence fit; the second sentence was close enough if you gloss over the TDs; the third sentence fit; and then the fourth had me :confused:.)

I think a number of people are overrating Oliver. I like him because he runs with great effort and he's made some exciting plays -- but he's not an NFL-caliber starter and IMO never will be. He's welcome to prove me wrong, but I think he's a run-of-the-mill backup.

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13 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Confused me for a second, but you mean Oliver here rather than Gordon. (As written, first sentence fit; the second sentence was close enough if you gloss over the TDs; the third sentence fit; and then the fourth had me :confused:.)

I think a number of people are overrating Oliver. I like him because he runs with great effort and he's made some exciting plays -- but he's not an NFL-caliber starter and IMO never will be. He's welcome to prove me wrong, but I think he's a run-of-the-mill backup.

:goodposting:

Yes, I meant Oliver there, and fixed it.

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20 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Confused me for a second, but you mean Oliver here rather than Gordon. (As written, first sentence fit; the second sentence was close enough if you gloss over the TDs; the third sentence fit; and then the fourth had me :confused:.)

I think a number of people are overrating Oliver. I like him because he runs with great effort and he's made some exciting plays -- but he's not an NFL-caliber starter and IMO never will be. He's welcome to prove me wrong, but I think he's a run-of-the-mill backup.

People over-rate him based off of one game against a Jets defense that never got off the bus that day.

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2 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

When I read the title, I expected much worse. I don't see much in the video to make one worry...or not worry. Looks like a regular end-of-May catching drill, definitely not full speed, but I wouldn't expect that anyway. Would be helpful if there were similar videos of other players running the same drill to compare. 

I trust your judgment almost blindly on all things Chargers - are you selling or buying on Gordon?

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