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gianmarco

***Official Melvin "Flash" Gordon*** Thread of Love

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9 minutes ago, Don Hutson said:

Maybe Melvin and his lawyer could argue that if they go to arbitration.  And the Chargers could counter that Melvin wasn't in good enough shape to play when he reported therefore he was unavailable in reality.  Nothing is black and white with this tolling issue.  There is no 0% chance.

I disagree. Gordon is not required to be in shape in order to avoid having his contract tolled. The language in the standard player contract is pretty clear about what triggers tolling. It's stuff like retiring or joining the army. It's not being placed on the exempt list at the team's option.

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Just now, Maurile Tremblay said:

I disagree. Gordon is not required to be in shape in order to avoid having his contract tolled. The language in the standard player contract is pretty clear about what triggers tolling. It's stuff like joining the army or retiring. It's not being placed on the exempt list.

He needs to be available to play a certain number of games in order to not have his contract tolled.  The Chargers have the ability to keep him off of the active roster for up to 3 weeks and not being in shape is one reason to keep him off the active roster.  I don't know what is 100% true and what is 100% not true.  But some reputable reporters have mentioned the Chargers ability to keep him off the active roster as a factor for what date he needs to report.  Do you have any links or support for what you are arguing?

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40 minutes ago, Don Hutson said:

He needs to be available to play a certain number of games in order to not have his contract tolled.  The Chargers have the ability to keep him off of the active roster for up to 3 weeks and not being in shape is one reason to keep him off the active roster.  I don't know what is 100% true and what is 100% not true.  But some reputable reporters have mentioned the Chargers ability to keep him off the active roster as a factor for what date he needs to report.  Do you have any links or support for what you are arguing?

I have a few decades of experience drafting, interpreting, and litigating contractual language. That's my day job. I've read the relevant provision in the standard player contract (which I quoted and linked to earlier in the thread). It's clear to me that the contract won't be tolled if the team, rather than the player, chooses to make the player unavailable.

Some reporters might have said that the exempt list matters. Many reporters are also talking about accrued seasons and needing six games on full-pay status. Reporters as a group have been bungling this whole thing all along.

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So once and for all, what week does Gordon need to hit the field by? And does he need to build in some cushion if he got hurt?

Edited by rawdog

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7 hours ago, rawdog said:

So once and for all, what week does Gordon need to hit the field by? And does he need to build in some cushion if he got hurt?

Maurile is an admin, and he says MG must report by week 9.  He also said if this is not correct, you can file a FBG grievance and get an additional $50 spending money in next year's subscriber contest.

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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/22/melvin-gordons-holdout-extends-to-three-weeks/

For something that presents itself as no new news, this is the most optimistic take on when Gordon has to report I have seen.

“Which means that, given the team’s Week 12 bye, Gordon needs to show up after Week Five and before Week Six, since a three-week roster exemption would expire before Week Nine and make him eligible for eight games on the active roster, which would make him a free agent in 2020.”

While it would still take some time to get him on the field, could this situation actually be resolved two weeks from tomorrow the Monday after Week 5?

 

Edited by rawdog

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19 minutes ago, rawdog said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/22/melvin-gordons-holdout-extends-to-three-weeks/

For something that presents itself as no new news, this is the most optimistic take on when Gordon has to report I have seen.

“Which means that, given the team’s Week 12 bye, Gordon needs to show up after Week Five and before Week Six, since a three-week roster exemption would expire before Week Nine and make him eligible for eight games on the active roster, which would make him a free agent in 2020.”

While it would still take some time to get him on the field, could this situation actually be resolved two weeks from tomorrow the Monday after Week 5?

Reporter is just guessing, like all of us, so I will continue to believe he will see the field no earlier than week 9.

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I guess my point is this isn’t really guessing if you accept two premises 

1) he needs to be eligible for 8 games to get his service time 

2) he has to account for the Chargers getting a 3-week roster exemption for him 

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1 minute ago, rawdog said:

I guess my point is this isn’t really guessing if you accept two premises 

1) he needs to be eligible for 8 games to get his service time 

2) he has to account for the Chargers getting a 3-week roster exemption for him 

The exemption shouldn't count against him.  He has to be available for 8 games, that's it.  Whether the Chargers choose to use him is their decision.  At least that's how I understand Maurile explained it.

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3 hours ago, TheWinz said:

Reporter is just guessing, like all of us, so I will continue to believe he will see the field no earlier than week 9.

Going with the ostrich approach eh?

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4 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

Going with the ostrich approach eh?

I can't seem to swindle the MG owner, so it's what I have to believe

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MG. You finally have a good OL and you waste it with a hold out.  Not bright, not bright at all!

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I’ve been seeing “ostrich approach” way too much around here.

is that really a thing? Cause it’s stupid. Stop it.

 

this thread. Perhaps in the AB thread ... possibly another.

If you’re the guy that thinks it’s ok to keep saying something something “ostrich approach”? 

Then you, should go stick your head...  in a hole in the ground. Keep it in there. Until you stop talking about “ostrich approach’s”

ps: thanks 

 

Edited by Ray Barboni
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Just searched the twittisphere and non of the usual suspects have touched this yet.

I'm sure Sheffty and Rap are on the phone.

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0% chance Melvin Gordon gets anything more than 50% of the touches with Chargers at any point this season (provided Ekeler stays healthy) .... Gordon will be gone next year & Chargers need to see if Ekeler can be "the man" for them moving forward.

:2cents:

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What does useage look like between Gordon and Ekeler once Gordon is fully back in the fold? 

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8 minutes ago, leave a whisper said:

0% chance Melvin Gordon gets anything more than 50% of the touches with Chargers at any point this season (provided Ekeler stays healthy) .... Gordon will be gone next year & Chargers need to see if Ekeler can be "the man" for them moving forward.

:2cents:

This couldn't be more wrong lol. Gordon is leaving next year so they will run him into the ground.

Interesting timing of this tweet yesterday from Ekeler. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/AustinEkeler/status/1176325250151116800

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The Gordon owner dropped him this weekend!!! WTF????

 

Zeke, Cook, Gordon at the Flex.......hhhhmm

Tex

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1 hour ago, VikingFrog said:

https://twitter.com/bransonwright/status/1176709340608323584?s=21

No idea if this is true or who this twitter reporter is. But he at least seems to not be a fake account.

Says melvin will report Thursday.

Just sharing info. Not sure necessarily believe it.

Branson Wright

@BransonWright

Filmmaker. Multi-media journalist for The Cleveland Plain Dealer.

If anyone would know...

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Branson Wright

@BransonWright

Filmmaker. Multi-media journalist for The Cleveland Plain Dealer.

If anyone would know...

Yeah. I’m weary of it. But just reporting what I found in case it helps make a decision off the wire.

I don’t know why this guy would have insight, but I did at least check it wasn’t some spam account with zero followers.

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From a financial perspective, not sure it would make sense for any player to return on a Thursday. Anyone on the roster on a Wednesday would get paid that day. Showing up a day later would cost a week's pay.

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1 minute ago, Anarchy99 said:

From a financial perspective, not sure it would make sense for any player to return on a Thursday. Anyone on the roster on a Wednesday would get paid that day. Showing up a day later would cost a week's pay.

well he has been. getting terrible advice so......

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My league is going to be hella mad if this is true. I just flipped Ekeler to an 0-3 team for Saquon yesterday, and there is already some noise about it 😂

Edited by jtd13
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8 minutes ago, jtd13 said:

My league is going to be hella mad if this is true. I just flipped Ekeler to an 0-3 team for Saquon yesterday, and there is already some noise about it 😂

Saquon owner is dumb AND desperate. You stole from a child. Shame on you. 🤣

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7 minutes ago, iamkoza said:

i summarized the tweet for you: "hearing gordon may report soon, FWIW". at least the guy from cleveland had some balls and gave a date.

When schefty comments on nfl related stuff I listen.

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3 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

When schefty comments on nfl related stuff I listen.

agree, but the comment is purposely vague to allow for a gordon return at any point over the next few weeks

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On 9/22/2019 at 5:28 AM, TheWinz said:

Reporter is just guessing, like all of us, so I will continue to believe he will see the field no earlier than week 9.

Florio has been on top of the Gordon and Zeke holdouts from the jump providing clear and well researched info about their options and implications of when they chose to report.

He agrees that week 9 is when Gordon will see the field which means that Gordon's drop-dead reporting date is after week 4 and before week 5.

Gordon may choose to play it extra safe and report tomorrow meaning that he would see the field in week 8 at the latest.

Edited by Chaka

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Quote

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet

One note on #Chargers RB Melvin Gordon: He’s not expected to play this week even if he shows up tomorrow. So, the earliest he can play is next week, Oct. 6 vs. the #Broncos, if he shows up this week.

 

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2 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

From a financial perspective, not sure it would make sense for any player to return on a Thursday. Anyone on the roster on a Wednesday would get paid that day. Showing up a day later would cost a week's pay.

Yeah, I think next Tuesday makes a lot more sense than this Thursday.

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1 minute ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

"In order to hit free agency in 2020, Gordon needs an accrued season."

:no:

So what does he need to do, to be an UFA next year?

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Just now, matttyl said:

So what does he need to do, to be an UFA next year?

Play enough to not have his contract toll to next season . . . ie, roll over to next year because he didn't play enough games. He has enough accrued seasons to be a free agent . . . he just needs his contract with the Chargers to be done. That's what the discussion has been about . . . when would he need to report to get credit for fulfilling his contract.

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Just now, Anarchy99 said:

Play enough to not have his contract toll to next season . . . ie, roll over to next year because he didn't play enough games. He has enough accrued seasons to be a free agent . . . he just needs his contract with the Chargers to be done. That's what the discussion has been about . . . when would he need to report to get credit for fulfilling his contract.

Yes, when is that?

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2 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Yes, when is that?

The drop dead for Gordon is between week 4 & week 5.

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19 minutes ago, matttyl said:

So what does he need to do, to be an UFA next year?

He obviously doesn't need an accrued season because that ship has sailed. For an accrued season, he needed to show up by August 6.

Fortunately for him, accrued seasons have nothing to do with becoming a free agent. You can become a free agent with zero accrued seasons, or you can accrue 28 seasons without ever becoming a free agent, like Tom Brady.

Accruing seasons is not the key to becoming a free agent. No longer being under contract is the key to becoming a free agent. This can happen by being released (and clearing waivers, if applicable), or it can happen by playing out the term of the contract (and not being tagged).

In Gordon's case, he's got a year left on his contract. He needs to make himself available for enough games that his contract isn't tolled. We know from the Joey Galloway case that being available for eight games is sufficient. We don't know for sure whether a lesser number would be sufficient, but the most natural reading of the relevant language in the standard player contract suggests that it probably wouldn't be. So to be safe, he needs to end his holdout before Wednesday of the ninth game. (Some people think he needs to end it earlier than that to account for the possibility that the team will use a roster-exemption on him. I believe those people are wrong. The question is how long the holdout lasted; being on the exempt list is not holding out.)

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3 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Yes, when is that?

No one knows for sure. The Galloway decision ruled that 8 games was enough (as applicable to Galloway) but some language in it seemed to indicate that one game would be enough. To be safe he'd have to be available for 8 games.

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2 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

He obviously doesn't need an accrued season because that ship has sailed. For an accrued season, he needed to show up by August 6.

Fortunately for him, accrued seasons have nothing to do with becoming a free agent. You can become a free agent with zero accrued seasons, or you can accrue 28 seasons without ever becoming a free agent like Tom Brady.

The key to becoming a free agent is not accruing seasons. The key to becoming a free agent is to no longer be under contract. This can happen by being released (and clearing waivers, if applicable), or it can happen by playing out the term of the contract.

In Gordon's case, he's got a year left on his contract. He needs to make himself available for enough games that his contract isn't tolled. We know from the Joey Galloway case that eight games is sufficient. We don't know for sure whether a lesser number would be sufficient, but the most natural reading of the relevant language in the standard player contract suggests that a lesser number probably wouldn't be. So to be safe, he needs to end his holdout before the ninth game. (Some people think he needs to end it earlier than that to account for the possibility that the team will use a roster-exemption on him. I believe those people are wrong.)

I forget where I saw it, but I read somewhere that a player only had to report and be available for half the season . . . meaning that if the Chargers wanted to file for a roster exemption it would not be held against the player. There certainly seems to be a lot of grey zone in all of this, but that's what one place had mentioned.

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6 minutes ago, Chaka said:

The drop dead for Gordon is between week 4 & week 5.

That early so that if the team placed a roster exemption on him, he could still be available for 8 games?

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

No one knows for sure. The Galloway decision ruled that 8 games was enough (as applicable to Galloway) but some language in it seemed to indicate that one game would be enough. To be safe he'd have to be available for 8 games.

I have never been able to find the Joey Galloway grievance decision. Does anyone happen to have a link to it?

In any case, showing up for just the final game is literally impossible since a player cannot be reinstated within 30 days of the end of the regular season. I suppose a player could report for a single game in Week 12 or whatever and then resume holding out again after that, hypothetically.

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3 hours ago, [icon] said:

What does useage look like between Gordon and Ekeler once Gordon is fully back in the fold? 

I think its silly to expect Gordon to be used as much as he was 2016-2018. He's probably not in game shape(even if he's in great shape, Zeke had the same issue) and Ekeler has excelled in his absence. 

Its entirely possible this is a 50-50 backfield. With Ekeler seeing pretty much all passing down, and hurry up work. Gordon seeing GL work, and a pretty equal split elsewhere. Sucks for Jackson, as he's been highly efficient, but no room for him.

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3 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I forget where I saw it, but I read somewhere that a player only had to report and be available for half the season . . . meaning that if the Chargers wanted to file for a roster exemption it would not be held against the player. There certainly seems to be a lot of grey zone in all of this, but that's what one place had mentioned.

You may have read it in the post you just quoted. ;)

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