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***Official Melvin "Flash" Gordon*** Thread of Love

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3 minutes ago, travdogg said:

I think its silly to expect Gordon to be used as much as he was 2016-2018. He's probably not in game shape(even if he's in great shape, Zeke had the same issue) and Ekeler has excelled in his absence. 

Its entirely possible this is a 50-50 backfield. With Ekeler seeing pretty much all passing down, and hurry up work. Gordon seeing GL work, and a pretty equal split elsewhere. Sucks for Jackson, as he's been highly efficient, but no room for him.

Gordon was a top 2 back before being injured last year. The chargers are trying to win and are 1-2. They will use their best RB alot. 

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5 minutes ago, matttyl said:

That early so that if the team placed a roster exemption on him, he could still be available for 8 games?

Exactly. They can keep him exempt for three weeks while he rounds into game shape. Then they have to play him or, and this I am not certain about, IR him or something that would prevent him from playing this season.

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2 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

Gordon was a top 2 back before being injured last year. The chargers are trying to win and are 1-2. They will use their best RB alot. 

And I wonder if that has any bearing on this situation.  Could the Chargers have softened some on their "no negotiation" stance recently....behind the scenes?

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4 minutes ago, Chaka said:

Exactly. They can keep him exempt for three weeks while he rounds into game shape. Then they have to play him or, and this I am not certain about, IR him or something that would prevent him from playing this season.

They don't have to play him ever. They can make him a healthy scratch every week.

The relevant question isn't how many games he actually plays in. It's how many games he holds out for. Once he ends his holdout, whether the team chooses to play him or not after that (possibly putting him on the roster-exempt list, making him inactive, or just parking him on the bench) should be immaterial to the question of tolling. I think Florio is wrong on that point.

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1 minute ago, matttyl said:

And I wonder if that has any bearing on this situation.  Could the Chargers have softened some on their "no negotiation" stance recently....behind the scenes?

No.

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1 minute ago, Chaka said:

Exactly. They can keep him exempt for three weeks while he rounds into game shape. Then they have to play him or, and this I am not certain about, IR him or something that would prevent him from playing this season.

But they don't have to, right?  They could make him active this week (if he reports today), or next week if he reports tomorrow or later.  Then he could/would be active for 12-13 games.  Much more than he needs to prevent his contract from tolling. 

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2 minutes ago, matttyl said:

But they don't have to, right?  They could make him active this week (if he reports today), or next week if he reports tomorrow or later.  Then he could/would be active for 12-13 games.  Much more than he needs to prevent his contract from tolling. 

Right. I'd expect that to be what happens if he reports soon. If he reports before next Wednesday, I'd expect him to be active in Week 5 and to resume his normal role after maybe a week or so of adjustment.

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12 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

Gordon was a top 2 back before being injured last year. The chargers are trying to win and are 1-2. They will use their best RB alot. 

Yes, he is top 2 on his team and will be used accordingly.

I mean, I know you weren't saying he was top 2 in the league.

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1 minute ago, Just Win Baby said:

Yes, he is top 2 on his team and will be used accordingly.

I mean, I know you weren't saying he was top 2 in the league.

Not sure exactly what he was saying, but in my league (fairly standard, non PPR) Gordon was the #2 points per game fantasy RB after week 12. Behind Gurley, ahead of Barkley. 

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4 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Right. I'd expect that to be what happens if he reports soon. If he reports before next Wednesday, I'd expect him to be active in Week 5 and to resume his normal role after maybe a week or so of adjustment.

I'm not as optimistic about a week 5 return to action. A lot depends on his conditioning, of course a lot depends on the Chargers record as well but I'm gonna go out on a limb and chalk up this week as a W.

1-3 Gordon plays

2-2 maybe not.

After Miami they have the Broncos and Steelers at home, which are both very winnable without Gordon, and the Titans on the road (also very winnable w/o Gordon).

After that the Bears are on deck.

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5 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:
9 minutes ago, matttyl said:

But they don't have to, right?  They could make him active this week (if he reports today), or next week if he reports tomorrow or later.  Then he could/would be active for 12-13 games.  Much more than he needs to prevent his contract from tolling. 

Right. I'd expect that to be what happens if he reports soon. If he reports before next Wednesday, I'd expect him to be active in Week 5 and to resume his normal role after maybe a week or so of adjustment.

Last year, his "normal role" was about 19 touches per game. Two comments on that:

  1. I think it will take more than a week for him to get into football shape and establish timing with Rivers and OL to a degree sufficient to handle 19 touches per game.
  2. More importantly, I hope the Chargers don't give him 19 touches per game. IMO Ekeler has proven that he deserves 10+ touches per game as long as he is healthy, and I don't see him and Gordon getting 29+ touches per game combined. 

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6 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Not sure exactly what he was saying, but in my league (fairly standard, non PPR) Gordon was the #2 points per game fantasy RB after week 12. Behind Gurley, ahead of Barkley. 

The exchange was about what the Chargers will do, i.e., real football, not fantasy football. In real football, Gordon is not close to a top 2 RB in the league, and he never has been.

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2 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Last year, his "normal role" was about 19 touches per game. Two comments on that:

  1. I think it will take more than a week for him to get into football shape and establish timing with Rivers and OL to a degree sufficient to handle 19 touches per game.
  2. More importantly, I hope the Chargers don't give him 19 touches per game. IMO Ekeler has proven that he deserves 10+ touches per game as long as he is healthy, and I don't see him and Gordon getting 29+ touches per game combined. 

SD's offense has not been clicking. They likely could use Ekeler more in the slot or moving around in space and Gordon in the backfield at the same time.

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Just now, Scooby1974 said:

SD's offense has not been clicking. They likely could use Ekeler more in the slot or moving around in space and Gordon in the backfield at the same time.

Sure, I agree they could do that. I would simply point out that the fact that their offense hasn't been very effective has had nothing at all to do with the RB play. Their RBs have played great. The problems are the OL, the TEs (with Henry hurt), and the WRs aside from Allen. Gordon returning doesn't fix any of those, and, in fact, could make the offense worse if the coaching staff decides to shift too many touches from Ekeler and Jackson to Gordon.

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29 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

They don't have to play him ever. They can make him a healthy scratch every week.

The relevant question isn't how many games he actually plays in. It's how many games he holds out for. Once he ends his holdout, whether the team chooses to play him or not after that (possibly putting him on the roster-exempt list, making him inactive, or just parking him on the bench) should be immaterial to the question of tolling. I think Florio is wrong on that point.

I wasn't really talking about tolling, just the fantasy angle of when he will have the ability to suit up.

Whether they play him or not and how that impacts his status for next season is a completely different issue.

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15 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

The exchange was about what the Chargers will do, i.e., real football, not fantasy football. In real football, Gordon is not close to a top 2 RB in the league, and he never has been.

Lol. You've made your opinion very clear that you think ekeler is some how better then Gordon. Last time I checked when you are the rb2 in fantasy your stats in real life are pretty good.

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22 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

Lol. You've made your opinion very clear that you think ekeler is some how better then Gordon. Last time I checked when you are the rb2 in fantasy your stats in real life are pretty good.

Your first comment I responded to said the Chargers are 1-2 and trying to win. What does that have to do with stats or fantasy football?

Ekeler is one of the best players the Chargers have on offense, and they should continue to use him quite a bit.

Edited by Just Win Baby
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4 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Well, that's the problem. You are focused on stats, not quality of play.

What are you using to determine that the rb play hasn’t been a problem this year? Is it possibly their....stats? Or is this simply a JWB eye test scenario?

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Just now, Cobbler1 said:

What are you using to determine that the rb play hasn’t been a problem this year? Is it possibly their....stats? Or is this simply a JWB eye test scenario?

Fair point, and well played. My objection is to referencing fantasy stats and attempting to correlate that to team decision-making on player usage.

Ekeler is one of the best playmakers the Chargers have on their roster. That is shown by his stats, his PFF grade, the eye test, and whatever else you want to use. The Chargers are not in position to stop using him. I assume his rushing attempts (more than 12 per game) will drop as Gordon is reinserted, but they shouldn't drop to zero, and his usage in the passing game shouldn't drop at all, since he is clearly better in that phase than Gordon.

:shrug: 

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2 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Fair point, and well played. My objection is to referencing fantasy stats and attempting to correlate that to team decision-making on player usage.

Ekeler is one of the best playmakers the Chargers have on their roster. That is shown by his stats, his PFF grade, the eye test, and whatever else you want to use. The Chargers are not in position to stop using him. I assume his rushing attempts (more than 12 per game) will drop as Gordon is reinserted, but they shouldn't drop to zero, and his usage in the passing game shouldn't drop at all, since he is clearly better in that phase than Gordon.

:shrug: 

Largely agree. Certainly agree on the first point about fantasy stats not always reflecting real life ability. I think Ekeler does stay the passing back but he ends up losing some receptions compared to what he’s getting now purely because he won’t be on the field as much. They want/need Melvin to pound between the tackles while also being a more than viable passing threat so he ends up with the bulk of the snaps once he’s in game shape. Ekeler averaged roughly 7 touches per game last year prior to Melvin’s injury. I think he ends up around 10 a game while Melvin settles in the 16-18 range. 

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Houston worked out CJA yesterday.  So they are interested in a RB.  Any chance they are looking to trade for Gordon....or just a coincidence the timing of his news and the Texans working out RBs?

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Just now, matttyl said:

Houston worked out CJA yesterday.  So they are interested in a RB.  Any chance they are looking to trade for Gordon....or just a coincidence the timing of his news and the Texans working out RBs?

You are more likely to suit up at RB for the Texans than for them to deal for Melvin Gordon IMO

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59 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

Lol. You've made your opinion very clear that you think ekeler is some how better then Gordon. Last time I checked when you are the rb2 in fantasy your stats in real life are pretty good.

I would argue that if Barkley had been in the charger offense instead of the Giants offense he would have been better than "rb2". 

What scoring system are you using and who finished behind him? There are at least half a dozen RB's out there better than Gordon if not more than a dozen. It's frankly kind of comical that anyone would even try to make the argument that Gordon has ever been rb2 at any point in his entire career.

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28 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Houston worked out CJA yesterday.  So they are interested in a RB.  Any chance they are looking to trade for Gordon....or just a coincidence the timing of his news and the Texans working out RBs?

They've traded for two RBs already this season - I can't see them trading for a third RB.

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20 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Fair point, and well played. My objection is to referencing fantasy stats and attempting to correlate that to team decision-making on player usage.

Ekeler is one of the best playmakers the Chargers have on their roster. That is shown by his stats, his PFF grade, the eye test, and whatever else you want to use. The Chargers are not in position to stop using him. I assume his rushing attempts (more than 12 per game) will drop as Gordon is reinserted, but they shouldn't drop to zero, and his usage in the passing game shouldn't drop at all, since he is clearly better in that phase than Gordon.

:shrug: 

Before Gordon got hurt last year, he was averaging 20.6 touches (15.9 rushes, 3.7 receptions). Ekeler was averaging 8.8 touches (6.6 carries, 2.2 receptions). So they gave them around 29 touches a game before MG was injured. 

You're probably right that Ekeler gets a bigger slice of that pie than last season, but I also think they probably don't want to keep giving him 20 touches a game considering his build. 

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25 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Houston worked out CJA yesterday.  So they are interested in a RB.  Any chance they are looking to trade for Gordon....or just a coincidence the timing of his news and the Texans working out RBs?

How many draft picks do they have left to mortgage their future? All for the right to pay Gordon more than he's worth. This year they are already paying Miller/Johnson/Hyde veteran contracts (7.7+2.2+1.9= $11.8mil) and now they are going to give Gordon the money that he wants?

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

They've traded for two RBs already this season - I can't see them trading for a third RB.

Thanks for this.  I didn't realize Hyde had been traded.  Thought he was cut from KC and then signed.

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My head hurts reading this thread. 

It reads as a lot of people who own Ekeler in redraft and in full support of LAC ownership and FO to show Gordon who's boss.

It also reads as many Gordon owners trying to remind people that Gordon operates at a high level in FF in this offense.

The LAC have at least 2 quality RBs and perhaps 3 of them but you only have 1 ball on each Down/Distance so the logical conclusion is to trade one of them and maybe even two. 

When Gordon reports it seems logical that he won't carry a full load but here is where I differ from others...Gordon is not happy or relieved to not be relied on for 20 touches a game, if he's worried about injury he nor any NFL player should step on the field, that's when you get hurt, so I differ from others opinions on that point. 

The idea that Ekeler lands Gordon on the bench is a pipe dream IMO. Just face the reality the pie is going to get cut up and if Gordon is atop the depth charts be it the 1st week he checks back, the second etc...eventually he is going to see something in the range of 15-18 carries, a few targets receiving, the guy who gets cut out likely is Jackson for 2019 and it's easy to say because it's going about 75/25 Ekeler/JJ last I looked...now 70/30

Gordon 60/Ekeler 30, JJ crumbs, something along those lines is going to happen by Week 8 let's say. 

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7 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

My head hurts reading this thread. 

It also reads as many Gordon owners trying to remind people that Gordon operates at a high level in FF in this offense.

I read it as Gordon put up decent fantasy numbers with a bell cow workload while Ekeler has been more efficient and did as good or better than Gordon did with fewer touches. I'm not sure what the split will be and whether the Chargers will want to run Gordon into the ground or not. Similarly, I am not sure Gordon will be thrilled to return without a new contract, lots of fines, and losing a bunch of weekly paychecks to 25-30 touches a game. But your 60/30 split sounds reasonable to me.

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5 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

What do the Texans have to give for Justin Jackson??? Free him!

Chargers aren’t going to trade him. He’s dirt cheap depth.

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1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:

I would argue that if Barkley had been in the charger offense instead of the Giants offense he would have been better than "rb2". 

What scoring system are you using and who finished behind him? There are at least half a dozen RB's out there better than Gordon if not more than a dozen. It's frankly kind of comical that anyone would even try to make the argument that Gordon has ever been rb2 at any point in his entire career.

Why is this comical?  For a while last year he was the 2nd highest scoring RB in fantasy football.  I assume that's what he was referring to since  this is a fantasy football message board  In real life yeah there are 6-10 RB's out there better than him.

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1 hour ago, jtd13 said:

Before Gordon got hurt last year, he was averaging 20.6 touches (15.9 rushes, 3.7 receptions). Ekeler was averaging 8.8 touches (6.6 carries, 2.2 receptions). So they gave them around 29 touches a game before MG was injured. 

You're probably right that Ekeler gets a bigger slice of that pie than last season, but I also think they probably don't want to keep giving him 20 touches a game considering his build. 

A few things are different now, though:

  1. Most importantly, Okung is out for at least several more weeks, and he may not play at all this season. He was by far their best OL last season. As a team, the Chargers averaged over 6 ypc last season when they ran outside Okung and 3.9 ypc on all other carries.
  2. Prior to Gordon's second injury last season, the team had not seen much of Jackson on the field. Now they have, and he looks outstanding. Hard to imagine he will get zero touches once Gordon is back and ramped up.
  3. They knew Ekeler was good before, but it seems reasonable to believe their view of him has only improved given his performance so far this season, suggesting he may have earned a bigger role than he had last year.

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6 hours ago, iamkoza said:

agree, but the comment is purposely vague to allow for a gordon return at any point over the next few weeks

I've noticed most reporters now on twitter or doing a report do this intentionally. Since most of the guys throw #### up on a wall hoping something sticks. Zero accountability anymore for being wrong. Not saying that's what Scheftar did here or accusing him of anything as he's one of the few sports media wise that usually has his #### in order

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4 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

No one knows for sure. The Galloway decision ruled that 8 games was enough (as applicable to Galloway) but some language in it seemed to indicate that one game would be enough. To be safe he'd have to be available for 8 games.

That was also a completely different CBA unless they kept the language similar or re worked it for a better understanding now 

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Just now, Weebs210 said:

RB 1 in the fifth 😍

I think he and Ekeler will be in a true RBBC, 65/35 split. Reducing both to RB2. No way either are RB1 with any kind of real split. 

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3 minutes ago, skycriesmary said:

I think he and Ekeler will be in a true RBBC, 65/35 split. Reducing both to RB2. No way either are RB1 with any kind of real split. 

A 65 with all goal line touches can easily be an rb1. You are right about ekeler though. Flex at best

Edited by Weebs210

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5 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

A 65 with all goal line touches can easily be an rb1. You are right about ekeler though. Flex at best

You may be right. It'll be interesting to see what kind of shape he's in, and if it takes a couple of weeks to get up to 15-18 carries. 

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This is what makes me sad. What makes me sad is seeing the Ekeler owners twist and contort their bodies and narratives to fit a scenario where Ekeler is still the lead back. I dont care how rusty Gordon is. He is and will always be the superior option to Ekeler. I don't care how he has performed. HE is not coming back to play second fiddle to the backup. Contrary to reports, HE HAS been in touch with ownership and coaching and knows exactly what he is walking into. That is all. 

Edited by georg013
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Is it still possible that Gordon gets traded? Gordon coming back, indicates that he is willing to play this season without a new contract. That could motivate a team to deal for him, without having to instantly commit a long term deal to him. They could still hammer out a long term deal, but it wouldn't need to be in place before a trade. Just a thought.

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48 minutes ago, Nucker101 said:

Shoutout to @Maurile Tremblay 

 

I bought low on him in 2 redraft leagues last week thanks to your posts. 

I kept him as my 4th keeper in my league. I let go Ekler only to draft him back 3 rounds later 

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