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***Official Melvin "Flash" Gordon*** Thread of Love

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4 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Gordon had no leverage, as has now been proven. The Chargers didn't cave, Gordon caved. Your statement makes no sense.

Furthermore, in his absence, a UDFA (Ekeler) and 7th round pick (Jackson) thrived, which made Gordon look replaceable, or at least closer to it than he would have had he not held out.

Gordon is subject to approximately $2M in fines for missed preseason training camp and games and about $1.3M in regular season checks, assuming he doesn't get paid for week 4. So in the end he may have given up about $3M, more than half of this year's salary, in order to make himself look foolish and possibly replaceable.

He got terrible advice and should fire his agent.

I think even Gordon likely realized that he had little to no leverage.  That's beside the point.  As I said, withholding his services (which are clearly valued by his employer or they wouldn't have offered a $10MM per year contract) was the only leverage available to him.  Did his employer cave to his demands?  Nope.  But can you answer whether the Chargers might be 2-1 instead of 1-2 if they had Gordon?  You'll never know.  But I bet the Chargers wish he had reported before Week 1.   

And made himself look foolish, received terrible advice and should fire his agent?  Because he felt that he wasn't being paid what he deserves?  Give me a break.  My word.   :lmao:

I guess we'll see what the NFL market thinks about Gordon as "replaceable" this offseason, provided he gets through the year healthy.  (For the record, I don't think he's a $10MM per year RB, but I'll be willing to bet that 1 out of 32 teams feels differently.) 

 

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26 minutes ago, Faust said:

Chargers coach Anthony Lynn "doubts" Melvin Gordon will play this Sunday.

"Never say never, but doubt he’ll play this weekend," was Lynn's exact quote. Lynn also made it clear Gordon will remain the team's starter once he's back up to speed following his lengthy holdout. "He's our starter. No doubt," Lynn said. "As soon as Melvin's ready, he'll go back. He'll go back to number one." Gordon could be looking at a 70 percent snap share over Austin Ekeler as early as Week 5.

SOURCE: Omar Ruiz on Twitter

Sep 26, 2019, 3:28 PM ET

 

I didn't even think he was eligible to play.  If he is, wouldn't the Dolphins be the perfect team to have him play against to get him up to speed?

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1 minute ago, matttyl said:

I didn't even think he was eligible to play.  If he is, wouldn't the Dolphins be the perfect team to have him play against to get him up to speed?

On any given Sunday. 

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1 minute ago, matttyl said:

I didn't even think he was eligible to play.  If he is, wouldn't the Dolphins be the perfect team to have him play against to get him up to speed?

i'd start 10 snaps of melvin gordon over my current rb2 (michel :bag:  )

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But haven't we been seeing the last day or two that he can't play this weekend?  Something about reporting yesterday vs Tuesday or something. 

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Just now, iamkoza said:

i'd start 10 snaps of melvin gordon over my current rb2 (michel :bag:  )

Dark Helmet will never let a non BRADY shine more than his glint. RB's wr"s and D lineman know this sad truth.

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The conversation in here has turned a little strange. People have really dug into their positions. As kind of an outsider to the whole thing, Gordon showed one thing: that LA could go with two other guys for less money and get reasonably similar results. He showed he was replaceable. Heck, one back on the roster is rated the 8th overall back thus far into the season in the league by PFF. That's impressive.

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5 minutes ago, BoltNlava said:

The injury angle is not as viable as you think. Every minute presents injury possibilities. If he was worried about injuries he should realize then that he is in the wrong business. EVERY time you set foot on a football field injury is possible. Period. Don't sign if you don't want to risk that. He may be setting himself up for injury moreso from this holdout. We don't know. What I do know is that holdouts lead to soft tissue injuries. We have seen that over and over. Missed games with checks are better though right? 

I can't even respond to this.  You're right.  He should change careers.  Plenty of things Melvin Gordon could do to make $10MM per year, I'm quite sure.  He shouldn't have signed that slotted rookie deal four years ago which fixed his wages for five years regardless of his performance. He should've just went and taught at his local high school.  

If he was worried about injuries he should realize he's in the wrong business. Don't sign if you don't want to risk that.  I'd get banned if I said what I felt about that statement.  Gordon is simply attempting to maximize his earnings.  Ya know, like most people do in their respective professions.  Except in most professions you don't sit around in 2019 making $80K knowing that next year you'll be making $300K per year with $1.5MM guaranteed, but before that occurs you suffer a debilitating injury such that every prospective employer now says that you're actually now only worth $40K per year with no guarantee of future earnings.   

The injury concern is the primary thing that Melvin Gordon is concerned about this year, I can virtually guarantee you that.  And if you think the risk for injury while training alone for two months = the risk for injury during an NFL training camp and playing in NFL games, then I'm not sure this conversation is going anywhere.  In fact, it's not.  Good luck Charger Nation!

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10 minutes ago, rockaction said:

The conversation in here has turned a little strange. People have really dug into their positions. As kind of an outsider to the whole thing, Gordon showed one thing: that LA could go with two other guys for less money and get reasonably similar results. He showed he was replaceable. Heck, one back on the roster is rated the 8th overall back thus far into the season in the league by PFF. That's impressive.

The chargers are 1-2. What it showed is Ekeler is a great receiving back and medicore rusher (we knew this and that will be his role on the team). Jackson is a good runner and medicore receiver. Gordon is the best rusher and still a great receiving back. This is the main reason he will see at minimum 65% of the snaps.

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PFF rates Justin Jackson and Austin Ekeler the 11th and 8th best all-around backs in the NFL. Not sure where Gordon sits in relation. I'm not sure anyone is going to have their mind changed by rankings and facts, though, as the issue seems very impassioned on both sides.

I'm just saying if you have those two guys on your roster, you might not want them competing with you.

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Lynn made it clear, however, that once Gordon is ready to roll, he'll be the workhorse.

"No doubt. He's our starter," the coach said. "He was the starter for a reason and I like the way Austin and J.J [Justin Jackson]'s been working. They've done a heck of a job. They've both proved they can play in this league, but they will still have a major role in the offense. But as soon as Melvin's ready, he'll go back. He'll go back to No. 1."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001059135/article/anthony-lynn-gordon-will-be-no-1-rb-when-hes-ready

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21 minutes ago, Frenchy Fuqua said:

Lynn made it clear, however, that once Gordon is ready to roll, he'll be the workhorse.

"No doubt. He's our starter," the coach said. "He was the starter for a reason and I like the way Austin and J.J [Justin Jackson]'s been working. They've done a heck of a job. They've both proved they can play in this league, but they will still have a major role in the offense. But as soon as Melvin's ready, he'll go back. He'll go back to No. 1."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001059135/article/anthony-lynn-gordon-will-be-no-1-rb-when-hes-ready

Where does it say “workhorse”?

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1 minute ago, Alex P Keaton said:

So starter = workhorse?

Cool.  Matt Breida is a workhorse too.

hey whatever. not trying to win the internet or nothing but starter has meant 60+% of all snaps in the Charger history last 10 years if not way more. That is a lot fyi but we will have to wait and see won't we. If you are right I will give you a like on your post Jan 2020. 

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3 minutes ago, BoltNlava said:

hey whatever. not trying to win the internet or nothing but starter has meant 60+% of all snaps in the Charger history last 10 years if not way more. That is a lot fyi but we will have to wait and see won't we. If you are right I will give you a like on your post Jan 2020. 

LOL.  Doesn’t matter to me, I have Gordon and Ekeler.  :shrug:

It’s just odd to see the term workhorse.  IMO that implies a fairly high usage rate.

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1 minute ago, Alex P Keaton said:

LOL.  Doesn’t matter to me, I have Gordon and Ekeler.  :shrug:

It’s just odd to see the term workhorse.  IMO that implies a fairly high usage rate.

Didn't look it up but you can.. his usage rate is high. Right? They will grind him like hamburger and Eckler will catch passes and spell him. JMO.

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1 hour ago, matttyl said:

I didn't even think he was eligible to play.  If he is, wouldn't the Dolphins be the perfect team to have him play against to get him up to speed?

This is a bit tricky, but I have to imagine that if he suits up he will be getting a good number of snaps.  I will play him against the lowly Dolphins if that’s the case over James White.

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Count me in with those saying Gordon will get high usage.  They don't care about his long term health since he'll likely be gone next year.  And if he gets hurt it's no biggie since they have very capable backups.  They are going to milk Gordon for every thing they can and in the process will be preserving Ekeler and Jackson for the future.  The Charger's coaches/front office/ownership might even get a little satisfaction if Gordon does get hurt.

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27 minutes ago, Crazysight said:

This is a bit tricky, but I have to imagine that if he suits up he will be getting a good number of snaps.  I will play him against the lowly Dolphins if that’s the case over James White.

You don't want to be benching White this week. NE will be feeding him in the receiving game. Burkhead and Edelman are both banged up and they have no healthy TE's . . . so they won't be able to run much.

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1 minute ago, Don Hutson said:

  The Charger's coaches/front office/ownership might even get a little satisfaction if Gordon does get hurt.

I'm almost sure you didn't mean this. Right?

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Career Stats: 

Yds/Car: Gordon: 4.0 / Ekeler 5.1

Carries/TD:  Gordon 32 / Ekeler 27

Yds/Rec: Gordon 8.7 / Ekeler 10.9 

Catch% : Gordon 74.9% / Ekeler 78.7%

Yds/Touch: Gordon 4.8 / Ekeler 6.8 

:popcorn: 

 

I do think it would be wise for them to get their money’s worth before letting Gordon go and handing the job to the superior back next year. 

Gordon will likely get every chance to carry the bigger slice of this shared backfield, this year. However, if Gordon reverts to his sub 4.0YPC ways, I could see Ekeler possibly taking back a larger share down the stretch. 

Edited by [icon]

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3 minutes ago, BoltNlava said:

I'm almost sure you didn't mean this. Right?

I doubt Anthony Lynn would get any satisfaction but I don't think highly of the Spanos family.  People can be petty.

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1 hour ago, SayWhat? said:

The injury concern is the primary thing that Melvin Gordon is concerned about this year, I can virtually guarantee you that.

Then why not wait a few more weeks to come back?

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7 minutes ago, Don Hutson said:

I doubt Anthony Lynn would get any satisfaction but I don't think highly of the Spanos family.  People can be petty.

The Spanos family is the definition of suck in SD. NO ONE here would piss on them if they were on fire. I have to say though I doubt they wish injury to any player in their employ. Truly. They have their own injuries. Self inflicted or not. See patriarch.

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8 minutes ago, BoltNlava said:

The Spanos family is the definition of suck in SD. NO ONE here would piss on them if they were on fire. I have to say though I doubt they wish injury to any player in their employ. Truly. They have their own injuries. Self inflicted or not. See patriarch.

Alex and Dean may be lousy owners, but none of the Spanoses are wishing injury on anybody.

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11 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Alex and Dean may be lousy owners, but none of the Spanoses are wishing injury on anybody.

A not insignificant part of the population is selfish, petty, and vindictive.  You often see the selfishness on this board when someone is happy when a player gets hurt because it helps their fantasy team.  And then that person gets chastised.  It's not an infrequent occurrence.  From what I've seen of the Spanos family, they seem shallower than your average owner.

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I think folks continue to ignore the fact that Gordon holding out reduced his chance of injury.  He missed training camp and a quarter of the season, and it cost him some money in the short term.  But he’s back in plenty of time to showcase his talents to the league while significantly reducing his chance of injury.   If the chargers weren’t going to pay him what he wanted it makes sense to go with that approach to give yourself the best chance at securing a big contract in the off season 

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8 minutes ago, Don Hutson said:

A not insignificant part of the population is selfish, petty, and vindictive.  You often see the selfishness on this board when someone is happy when a player gets hurt because it helps their fantasy team.  And then that person gets chastised.  It's not an infrequent occurrence.  From what I've seen of the Spanos family, they seem shallower than your average owner.

You appear to be making a really weird inference about people you seem not to know all that well.

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11 minutes ago, Skeletore Eh said:

I think folks continue to ignore the fact that Gordon holding out reduced his chance of injury.  He missed training camp and a quarter of the season, and it cost him some money in the short term.  But he’s back in plenty of time to showcase his talents to the league while significantly reducing his chance of injury.   If the chargers weren’t going to pay him what he wanted it makes sense to go with that approach to give yourself the best chance at securing a big contract in the off season 

By what percentage chance do you think he reduced the likelihood of suffering an injury that would have affected his future earnings?

In the worst-case scenario, how much do you think an injury might have reduced his future earnings?

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5 minutes ago, Don Hutson said:

A not insignificant part of the population is selfish, petty, and vindictive.  You often see the selfishness on this board when someone is happy when a player gets hurt because it helps their fantasy team.  And then that person gets chastised.  It's not an infrequent occurrence.  From what I've seen of the Spanos family, they seem shallower than your average owner.

No one is saying you are wrong. Some might disagree. I'm one of those who do. For all we know they are devil worshipers and are currently rubbing chicken blood all over themselves and wishing Melvin spontaneously combusts  on the 50 yard line. Just as he was scoring on a 79 yard td....  all the while ordering from Doordash orange chicken from Panda Express. No insult intended but you get my point right? 

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1 hour ago, [icon] said:

Career Stats: 

Yds/Car: Gordon: 4.0 / Ekeler 5.1

Carries/TD:  Gordon 32 / Ekeler 27

Yds/Rec: Gordon 8.7 / Ekeler 10.9 

Catch% : Gordon 74.9% / Ekeler 78.7%

Yds/Touch: Gordon 4.8 / Ekeler 6.8 

:popcorn: 

 

I do think it would be wise for them to get their money’s worth before letting Gordon go and handing the job to the superior back next year. 

Gordon will likely get every chance to carry the bigger slice of this shared backfield, this year. However, if Gordon reverts to his sub 4.0YPC ways, I could see Ekeler possibly taking back a larger share down the stretch. 

Holy statistical cherry-picking Batman!!!!

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3 hours ago, BoltNlava said:

 starter has meant 60+% of all snaps in the Charger history last 10 years

Not true. It didn’t in 2013 or 2015, and Whisenhunt was the OC in those seasons, as he is now. 

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2 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

By what percentage chance do you think he reduced the likelihood of suffering an injury that would have affected his future earnings?

In the worst-case scenario, how much do you think an injury might have reduced his future earnings?

Well he missed a quarter of the season and training camp so probably somewhere between 25-30%

 

Worst case scenario he tears his knee and it costs him his contract, so a lot

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44 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Not true. It didn’t in 2013 or 2015, and Whisenhunt was the OC in those seasons, as he is now. 

True.  I forgot . Thanks for the accuracy check. Gordon is still going to be hamburger though.

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5 hours ago, SayWhat? said:

But can you answer whether the Chargers might be 2-1 instead of 1-2 if they had Gordon?  You'll never know.  But I bet the Chargers wish he had reported before Week 1.  

I can say definitively that the RBs were not the problem with the Chargers in the first 3 games. I think that is obvious. If you think Gordon would have made the difference in either loss, I'd like to hear your rationale.

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11 minutes ago, Skeletore Eh said:

Well he missed a quarter of the season and training camp so probably somewhere between 25-30%

 

Worst case scenario he tears his knee and it costs him his contract, so a lot

So your perspective is that it is a given that if a RB participates in training camp, preseason, and the regular season, he is guaranteed to suffer an injury that would affect his future earnings? That is what you are representing here.

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26 minutes ago, Skeletore Eh said:

Well he missed a quarter of the season and training camp so probably somewhere between 25-30%

Worst case scenario he tears his knee and it costs him his contract, so a lot

Let's put some numbers to it.

Over the course of a 16-game season, a starting running back has about an X% chance of suffering an injury that affects his future earnings. By sitting out, Gordon has reduced that chance by 30%.

If Gordon gets injured so badly that he never gets another contract, he'll lose about $Y in future earnings.

What are your estimates of X and Y?

(I would say that X is no more than 3%, and Y is no more than $50 million, but I'm open to arguments for different numbers. I say that X is no more than 3% because I don't think anyone can come close to naming starting 20 RBs it's happened to over the last 20 years. And I don't think he'd lose more than $50 million because that's how much Ezekiel Elliot was just guaranteed.)

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8 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

I can say definitively that the RBs were not the problem with the Chargers in the first 3 games. I think that is obvious. If you think Gordon would have made the difference in either loss, I'd like to hear your rationale.

You can definitively say that the RBs were not the problem?  I don’t even have to go back a half game to come up with plausible rationale.  You think the Chargers might have liked to utilize their best RB in the 2nd half of a game in which they held a 17-7 halftime lead on the road in Houston?  You don’t at all think there’s a chance that Gordon may have allowed them to lean on the run just a little bit?  Sustain a drive or two?   Or did it make more sense to end a game like that with a 46:18 pass to run ratio?  Sure seemed like they might have a more balanced attack with Gordon available than not.  I can say that’s definitively plausible.

 

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24 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

I can say definitively that the RBs were not the problem with the Chargers in the first 3 games. I think that is obvious. If you think Gordon would have made the difference in either loss, I'd like to hear your rationale.

It’s a bit ridiculous to state emphatically what would or wouldn’t have happened.

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14 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:
39 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

I can say definitively that the RBs were not the problem with the Chargers in the first 3 games. I think that is obvious. If you think Gordon would have made the difference in either loss, I'd like to hear your rationale.

It’s a bit ridiculous to state emphatically what would or wouldn’t have happened.

Can you show me where I did that? I said that IMO the RBs were not the problem. I said that if anyone thinks Gordon would have made the difference, I would like to hear their rationale as to why.

I don't see that as stating emphatically what would or wouldn't have happened. Are you saying you disagree with that?

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Just now, Just Win Baby said:

Can you show me where I did that? I said that IMO the RBs were not the problem. I said that if anyone thinks Gordon would have made the difference, I would like to hear their rationale as to why.

I don't see that as stating emphatically what would or wouldn't have happened. Are you saying you disagree with that?

I don’t think it’s crazy to envision a scenario where the outcome changes with Gordon in the game.  

My apologies for misreading your comment.

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2 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

So your perspective is that it is a given that if a RB participates in training camp, preseason, and the regular season, he is guaranteed to suffer an injury that would affect his future earnings? That is what you are representing here.

No.  Not sure where you’re getting that from

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1 hour ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Let's put some numbers to it.

Over the course of a 16-game season, a starting running back has about an X% chance of suffering an injury that affects his future earnings. By sitting out, Gordon has reduced that chance by 30%.

If Gordon gets injured so badly that he never gets another contract, he'll lose about $Y in future earnings.

What are your estimates of X and Y?

(I would say that X is no more than 3%, and Y is no more than $50 million, but I'm open to arguments for different numbers. I say that X is no more than 3% because I don't think anyone can come close to naming starting 20 RBs it's happened to over the last 20 years. And I don't think he'd lose more than $50 million because that's how much Ezekiel Elliot was just guaranteed.)

You can put any percentage on it you want (not saying you’re right or wrong), all that matters is that if these guys get in their heads that their best chance at a big pay day is holding out and reducing their exposure to injury, that’s what they’re gonna do. Folks in here saying he got terrible advice and should fire his agent aren’t considering that may have been his plan all along. Regardless how small a chance, one bad knee injury and he can kiss his contract goodbye.   It’s like risking $25 mil in the long run to earn $3 mil now. No matter how small a chance, it’s still a big risk 

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I think his agents have a responsibility to do the math.

If he reduced his risk of missing out on $50 million from 3% to 2%, which uses the highest numbers that I think are remotely plausible, that's worth $500,000, statistically, in reduced risk.

He paid around $3,000,000 for that reduced risk.

Even if he's very risk-averse, that doesn't seem like a great deal. In pure monetary terms, I think it's basically impossible to make a reasonable case that sitting out was the right way to maximize his expected earnings.

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7 hours ago, georg013 said:

Holy statistical cherry-picking Batman!!!!

@georg013 I open the door for you to show non-cumulative stats that contradict what I’ve shared here. That’s every per touch/carry metric available that I’m aware of. 

Please, Share the non counting metrics where Gordon excels with the class. 

Unless your argument is that Gordon is a creature of opportunity and is highly volume dependent, in which case we would agree :) 

 

Before the straw man reads his head: I don’t disagree Gordon gets first crack at the big slice of this pie. I’m purely looking at Quality of output, which you seem to question. 

:popcorn: 

 

 

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Ill give it a shot just for funsies, not that I really care one way or the other.

Since 2017 (when Ekeler entered the league) in the games they started at RB...

Gordon 4.33 avg. 2 fumbles in 507 touches.
Ekeler 3.70 avg. 1 fumble in 109 touches.

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