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gianmarco

***Official Melvin "Flash" Gordon*** Thread of Love

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Stop. All of you.  If you have something substantive to say, cool.  Otherwise just drop it.

Please don't reply to this either.  It's done.  Nobody cares why you were right and the other guy was wrong. 

 

Edited by bostonfred
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39 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Stop. All of you.  If you have something substantive to say, cool.  Otherwise just drop it.

Please don't reply to this either.  It's done.  Nobody cares why you were right and the other guy was wrong. 

 

I agree with Fred even though he is usually wrong.

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Melvin Gordon rushed 20 times for 80 yards and two touchdowns in the Chargers' Week 9 win over the Packers, adding three receptions for 29 additional yards.

Gordon cashed in a pair of goal-line carries as Austin Ekeler was stymied on his. Gordon's second score came only after the Chargers took a field goal off the board to go for a 4th-and-inches from inside the one following a Packers penalty. Ekeler played well, though Gordon out-touched him 23-16. Today was how the Chargers want their backfield to look, as well as how it worked when it was going right in 2018. An awful run defense in the Packers played a huge part, of course. Week 10 Thursday night opponent Oakland has a soft overall defense but is better on the ground than through the air. Gordon will be a mid-range RB2.

Nov 3, 2019, 7:32 PM ET

 

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On 10/29/2019 at 2:29 PM, Shawnky said:

But that's the thing.....I'm not an owner.  Just  tired of your whining, and also aware of Ekeler's production/all purpose yards on the season.  Gordon flat out sucks rushing and receiving.

😂

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Melvin Gordon rushed 22 times for 108 yards and a touchdown in the Chargers' Week 10 loss to the Raiders, adding a 25-yard reception.

Even with Philip Rivers bumbling through a disastrous performance behind nonexistent pass protection, Gordon picked up where he left on last Sunday's hot performance, looking explosive and powerful. He pushed the pile on his three-yard touchdown in the second quarter, and might have had a second score late had he not been briefly forced to exit the game following a helmet-to-helmet hit. Finally looking like the back fantasy players thought they were stashing, Gordon has 11 days to rest up for a date with the Chiefs' run-leaky defense.

Nov 7, 2019, 11:48 PM ET

 

 

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Gordon looked really, really good tonight. 

Raiders are no push-overs against the run, and Gordon was simply carving them up -- up the middle, on stretch plays and sweeps, on end-runs, and had a really great catch-and-run.

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6 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Gordon looked really, really good tonight. 

Raiders are no push-overs against the run, and Gordon was simply carving them up -- up the middle, on stretch plays and sweeps, on end-runs, and had a really great catch-and-run.

He did. Time to sell high?

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2 hours ago, Weebs210 said:

No. Hes in game shape now.

I think both can be true in this case. I could see him not topping this one tonight but we’ll see.

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Melvin Gordon rushed 14 times for 69 yards and caught 3-of-5 targets for 21 yards in the Chargers' Week 11 loss to the Chiefs Monday night.

Gordon handled just four carries after halftime and dropped his two fourth-quarter targets. He was chewing up yards, along with Austin Ekeler (132 total yards), but the Chargers went extremely pass-happy after the break for some reason despite being in striking distance. Gordon out-carried Ekeler 14-5, but Ekeler led the team with 12 targets. Both backs are strong weekly fantasy plays and get the Broncos in Denver after L.A.'s Week 12 bye.

Nov 19, 2019, 12:04 AM ET

 

 

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9 hours ago, Faust said:

Melvin Gordon rushed 14 times for 69 yards and caught 3-of-5 targets for 21 yards in the Chargers' Week 11 loss to the Chiefs Monday night.

Gordon handled just four carries after halftime and dropped his two fourth-quarter targets. He was chewing up yards, along with Austin Ekeler (132 total yards), but the Chargers went extremely pass-happy after the break for some reason despite being in striking distance. Gordon out-carried Ekeler 14-5, but Ekeler led the team with 12 targets. Both backs are strong weekly fantasy plays and get the Broncos in Denver after L.A.'s Week 12 bye.

Nov 19, 2019, 12:04 AM ET

I put the first drop on the KCC pass rush. Rivers had to unload that ball a second too soon, hit Gordon awkward as he turned to look for it. The second one (4th qtr) was a flat out bad drop.

Honestly was expecting a big night from Gordon. Juicy match-up against a terrible run defense... wasted opportunity.

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2 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

I put the first drop on the KCC pass rush. Rivers had to unload that ball a second too soon, hit Gordon awkward as he turned to look for it. The second one (4th qtr) was a flat out bad drop.

Honestly was expecting a big night from Gordon. Juicy match-up against a terrible run defense... wasted opportunity.

Just wasn't given enough rushing opportunities due to game script.  Was averaging about 5 yards a pop, but when they couldn't convert red zone to TDs early, I knew Rivers would be throwing a lot - so Ekeler would be on the field more later in the game. 

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Melvin Gordon rushed 20 times for 99 yards in the Chargers' Week 13 loss to the Broncos, adding two receptions for 11 additional yards.

The Chargers continue to feed Gordon all the run-game work he can handle. He’s made good use of the opportunities in recent weeks, displaying some 2018-esque tackle-breaking ability. Austin Ekeler was also plenty involved, as the offense seemed to embrace two-back formations more than usual. Gordon has become a near-weekly lock for 20-plus touches. Fire him up as a borderline RB1 in Week 14 against a Jaguars defense that has struggled to stop opposing rushing attacks for most of the season.

Dec 1, 2019, 7:47 PM ET

 

 

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On 12/1/2019 at 9:46 PM, Faust said:

 

He couldn't get me that one extra yard, could he?

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Melvin Gordon rushed 12 times for 55 yards and a touchdown in the Chargers' Week 14 win over the Jaguars, adding five receptions for 29 additional yards.

Gordon scored a goal line touchdown on the first drive of the game. He was plenty effective as both a rusher and receiver, although Austin Ekeler stole the spotlight with 8-101-0 rushing and 4-112-1 receiving lines. Gordon continues to receive borderline RB1 usage as the lead back in this offense. The only problem is a fairly tough matchup in Week 15 against the Vikings’ ferocious front seven. Regardless, treat Gordon as an upside RB2 at home.

Dec 8, 2019, 7:16 PM ET

 

 

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This guy held out for a big contract to start the year :lmao:

 

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Melvin Gordon rushed nine times for 15 yards and two touchdowns in the Chargers' 24-17, Week 16 loss to the Raiders.

He added six catches for 32 yards on seven targets as a receiver. The Chargers simply couldn't run the ball. This offense is totally broken and needs to be revamped under center in the offseason. Gordon accounted for the team's two touchdowns via one-yard plunges, but he obviously didn't do the work in getting the offense to the goal line. Gordon will wrap up his season in Week 17 against the Chiefs and then head to free agency.

 

Edited by The Frankman

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ESPN's Josina Anderson reports RB Melvin Gordon is expected to test the free agent market.

This was obviously expected after the Chargers declined to give Gordon a long-term deal following his extended holdout. MGIII didn't exactly help his cause with his performance in 2019, averaging a pedestrian 3.8 yards per carry and largely being out-played by Austin Ekeler on a near-weekly basis. Still, Gordon has demonstrated the ability to handle 300-plus touches while working as a true three-down back during his five-year career. There are a number of teams that could use a back with his talents, although it remains to be seen how much money will be on the table for the veteran RB. Gordon will turn 27 in April.

SOURCE: Josina Anderson on Twitter

Mar 5, 2020, 1:01 PM ET

 

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For those that thought it was a good idea for Gordon to hold out last season..... how much do you expect him to get on the open market? Guarantees? Are we still using the Gurley, Johnson, Bell, and Freeman contracts as an expected comp?

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13 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

For those that thought it was a good idea for Gordon to hold out last season..... how much do you expect him to get on the open market? Guarantees? Are we still using the Gurley, Johnson, Bell, and Freeman contracts as an expected comp?

No chance on the first 3 you mentioned.

I still think he can get something similar as Freeman got in terms of APY. I'm anticipating $8-10M per year-lean something closer to higher side on that, and hard to say on the guarantees but I'm guessing his contract will be structured in such a way as he is almost essentially guaranteed to see first two years of that deal and team easy to move on after two seasons.  Which  now that think about it I'm almost describing  the contract the 49'ers gave McKinnon. I think he can get that kind of deal.

Can't see why anyone would still argue he should have held out but people on these boards still tried to argue Bell did right missing a year so people are going to do what they do. It seems easy to criticize him for not taking the Chargers offer last year because it's hard to see him doing better then the $10M they reportedly offered but I can't even say that without knowing the guarantees or structure.

Long story short I expect him to sign a deal that won't guarantee him $20M but structure of the contract will almost essentially guarantee he sees something in ballpark of that amount over next two seasons.

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Rotoworld:

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Chargers signed RB Austin Ekeler to a four-year, $24.5 million deal that includes $15 million guaranteed.

The deal makes Ekeler the clear No. 1 RB for the Chargers. The Melvin Gordon era is over. Ekeler has averaged a robust 4.8 yards per carry during his three seasons with the Chargers, but his pass-game ability has been the true game-changer. Overall, Ekeler caught 92-of-108 targets for 993 yards and eight scores in 2019, averaging an elite 9.2 yards per target. He's one of the league's premiere backs in all areas of the game and should be a first-round fantasy pick next August. Ekeler is just 24 years old and is scheduled to become a free agent again after the 2023 season.

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Mar 6, 2020, 2:07 PM ET

 

 

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Mailbag: The Five Potential Shockers of Free Agency

Excerpt:

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I think it’s possible that Cardinals RB Kenyan Drake scores a bigger deal than Chargers RB Melvin Gordon, which would’ve been an insane thought six months ago. Drake’s more versatile, and more of a 21st-century back than Gordon is.

 

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19 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Long story short I expect him to sign a deal that won't guarantee him $20M but structure of the contract will almost essentially guarantee he sees something in ballpark of that amount over next two seasons.

Yeah, we'll see. I just can't see it. 

You just keep going down the list. Even after Gurley, Bell, Johnson, Freeman. So how about that next echelon of veteran RB contracts? McKinnon. Lamar Miller. Duke Johnson. Stop me when you see a good contract given to a veteran RB(at least from the perspective of the team that chose to pay him).

The only big RB contract that has "worked out" recently has been Zeke. And in that case DAL made Zeke the highest paid RB in the league, promptly missed the playoffs, and are on the verge of losing some combination of their starting QB, their #1 WR, their #1CB in large part because they are paying the RB position so much money.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

I'd say yeah.

Zeke counts $10.9mil against the cap in 2020. In 2021 he counts $13.7mil. And in 2022 he counts for $16.5mil against the cap. 

Are you saying that paying a RB that much money isn't a contributing factor to DAL losing either their starting QB and/or their #1 WR and/or their #1 CB?

Edited by BoltBacker
corrected 2022

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6 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

Yeah, we'll see. I just can't see it. 

You just keep going down the list. Even after Gurley, Bell, Johnson, Freeman. So how about that next echelon of veteran RB contracts? McKinnon. Lamar Miller. Duke Johnson. Stop me when you see a good contract given to a veteran RB(at least from the perspective of the team that chose to pay him).

The only big RB contract that has "worked out" recently has been Zeke. And in that case DAL made Zeke the highest paid RB in the league, promptly missed the playoffs, and are on the verge of losing some combination of their starting QB, their #1 WR, their #1CB in large part because they are paying the RB position so much money.

I'd actually argue Gurley worked out better than Elliott. The Rams come 1 score away from a SB win. 

RB's are so dependent on their supporting casts, that unless they are a huge mismatch in the passing game(like Ekeler) the difference between top runners, and mediocre runners is so small, that it is almost irrelevant. I truly believe if Zeke had sat out the first month of the season, and Pollard had to start, it would have made zero difference at all to the Cowboys record.

6 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

If you are giving Dallas credit for how much cap space they have, then you can't count unsigned players, in which case Dallas has a terrible offense, easily the worst in the NFC East. Dallas will be bottom 10 in cap space when/if they bring back Dak and Cooper. 

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Just now, Dr. Dan said:

No, I'm saying claiming they cant sign their guys because of their RB is false. There are worse salaries hindering their cap flexibility. Hes not even top 3 on his team. Lawrence has a far worse contract. Is he worth being the 6th highest paid defender in the league? 2 mil per sack last season... if he repeats his 2019 season itll be 4 mil per sack. that's horrible. 

Lawrence is a much better player than Elliott, and plays a far more valuable position. Lawrence is one of the best defense players in the NFL, I'd call him a top-10 edge rusher, arguably top-5. I'd argue Elliott isn't one of the 10 most valuable players on the Cowboys. Dak, Cooper, Tyron, Martin, Frederick, Lawrence, Jaylon, Vander Esch, Jones, and Collins all contribute more to Dallas than Zeke in my opinion. 

Side note, sacks are a terrible stat to judge pass rushers by. Its like judging a skill player by TD's. A pass rusher can have a great game, without recording a single sack. 

Who were your other 2 examples on Dallas that are worse contracts? 

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3 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Lawrence is a much better player than Elliott, and plays a far more valuable position. Lawrence is one of the best defense players in the NFL, I'd call him a top-10 edge rusher, arguably top-5. I'd argue Elliott isn't one of the 10 most valuable players on the Cowboys. Dak, Cooper, Tyron, Martin, Frederick, Lawrence, Jaylon, Vander Esch, Jones, and Collins all contribute more to Dallas than Zeke in my opinion.

:jawdrop:

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1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:

Yeah, we'll see. I just can't see it. 

You just keep going down the list. Even after Gurley, Bell, Johnson, Freeman. So how about that next echelon of veteran RB contracts? McKinnon. Lamar Miller. Duke Johnson. Stop me when you see a good contract given to a veteran RB(at least from the perspective of the team that chose to pay him).

 

 

It may not make good business sense but regarding the bolded you'll have to stop me when you see teams stop giving out good contracts to RB's or the payscale for them drops.

I would also say that there have some good contracts given to veterans but they were not top of the market deals. Ingram's as an example has kind of been on a bargain on both his second and third contracts. Ekeler we'll see but that looks like a team friendly deal to me but he was a RFA and had less bargaining power.

It's the larger contracts that have not worked out so well but teams are not still giving them out.

So really iit's a question of is Gordon going to get an Ingram/Ekeler type deal or something as I alluded to earlier more in line with at least a McKinnon/Freeman type deal. Because he's younger then Ingram, not a RFA like Ekeler, I would be very surprised if both he and Drake for that matter did not get something that looks like JMC/Freeman. And those deals might have some funny money in the back end but essentially contracts that won't have actual guarantees of $16-20M but will essentially guarantee them that amount over first two years. We'll see in about 12 days.

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46 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Lawrence had 30 solo tackles last year. Puts him ranked 270th in the league

262nd in total tackles. 

 

Worth every penny

Huh.  Even worse logic.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

3 of their top 5 paid players are OL. Which is bad planning on their part. 

Lawrence had 30 solo tackles last year. Puts him ranked 270th in the league

262nd in total tackles. 

 

Worth every penny

Terrible logic as usual.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

3 of their top 5 paid players are OL. Which is bad planning on their part. 

Lawrence had 30 solo tackles last year. Puts him ranked 270th in the league

262nd in total tackles. 

 

Worth every penny

They won't be for long if Dak and Cooper are back. I don't consider that bad planning at all. They've got arguably the best OL in the NFL, which is why they didn't need to pay Zeke at all. The only teams I'd argue with better OL's are Philly(when Peters is healthy) and New England(with a healthy Cannon and Andrews) and both those teams have impending FA's who are likely to walk in Peters and Thuney.

Tackles are also a terrible stat. It'd be like ranking a RB by carries. Lawrence is the Cowboys only good DL, he sees constant double teams, and still gets a good share of hurries and pressures, which are both more important than sacks or tackles. 

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

29 pressures. not even top on his team... 

I'm not saying DE isnt important, it's likely the most important after QB, it's just horrible planning from a roster construction standpoint. You dont want to be in the position they are in (needing to pay their QB and WR top dollar among others) AFTER signing their DE and OL to large deals. 

We saw Miami realize that they should cash out on their LT while they can because the timeline for extending him didnt match their rebuild timeline. I'm not sure Dallas planned this out too well, which is why they are in trouble needing to sign a bunch of expensive guys. It's not solely because they paid their RB a large deal. That doesnt help but it's not the only reason 

The position they are in wouldn't be so poor if they hadn't signed Zeke, when a replacement level RB likely would have been just fine. A Jordan Howard/Tony Pollard RBBC would likely produce 85% of what Elliott does, for maybe 20% the cost. Also Dallas signed those guys(other than Collins, which I'd agree was a bit much) before they traded for Cooper, which I don't recall anyone expecting to happen before that season started. 

Miami's situation isn't really a good comparison. They struck gold when Houston offered 2 1sts and a 2nd for Tunsil. Its not like they just decided they aren't gonna pay him, and took whatever. It was a massive, Godfather-style offer. Those don't come around often. That was Miami taking advantage of a team without a GM, and a HC on the hot seat, with full control. Very stars aligning level circumstances. Also, Miami is/was a bottom dweller doing a full rebuild. Dallas was a team coming off a divisional playoff loss to the eventual Super Bowl runner up, very different agendas, even if they could have traded say La'el Collins for that much, though if that offer had existed they should have, and I think Collins is better than Tunsil.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

3 of their top 5 paid players are OL. Which is bad planning on their part. 

Lawrence had 30 solo tackles last year. Puts him ranked 270th in the league

262nd in total tackles. 

 

Worth every penny

Actually, the bad planning was paying Elliott. Given the strength of their OL, they could get by with a lesser RB without much of an impact on their win probability.

FWIW, PFF gave Pollard a higher grade in 2019 than Elliott. They graded him higher at rushing, receiving, run blocking, and penalties. The only thing Elliott graded higher on was pass blocking. Small sample size for Pollard, and maybe it is fairer to view Elliott as better despite these grades... but the point is there isn't much of a dropoff to Pollard in part due to the strong OL.

Meanwhile, Lawrence was the highest graded defensive player for the Cowboys and was the 15th highest graded edge defender in the league. But go ahead, carry on talking about solo tackles and other stuff that doesn't really mean much when assessing edge defenders.

Edited by Just Win Baby

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

29 pressures. not even top on his team...

Per PFF, he had 56 pressures, which was #22 in the league.

The rate at which he was double teamed was one of the highest in the league.

His pass rush win rate was #3 in the league.

Facts... you should try them. Put all of that together, and he had a strong season. Completely opposite what you are representing here.

Edited by Just Win Baby
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, travdogg said:

 still gets a good share of hurries and pressures, which are both more important than sacks or tackles. 

How is a hurry or pressure more important than a sack? A sack is a loss of down and loss of yardage. The best case scenario on a pressure is an incomplete pass - I suppose an occasional interception can occur but that’s going to be rare - but good things for the offense can also result despite a hurry/pressure.

And I’m not arguing those things aren’t important or even taking a stance on Lawrence. I’m just not sure what I’m missing on that point.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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2 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

This isnt a great arguement, so since it seems this is the direction its going, I'll say my peace and move on- You dont know this to be true. You can speculate, but you dont know this is true. I could easily say a DE could have done as well if not better than Taylor for less cost... Za'Darius Smith makes 4 mil less and arguably had a better impact on his team. 

Back in december: According to Pro Football Focus, Smith’s 18.2 percent pressure rate leads all edge rushers in the NFL in 2019 and ranks as the fourth-best mark among full-time edge rushers since 2015.

They could do a lot with 4 mil I imagine

The point is you cant assume you plug a player in and they'll perform either how they did on another team, or how you would like to imagine them to be. 

There are cheaper options at RB, sure, but there are cheaper options at DE too... and I'd argue the talent disparity is less.

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to convince you differently, but I feel compelled to close this out by saying that Z'Darius Smith is irrelevant. Lawrence was already signed(franchised) and it'd been silly for Dallas to try to get Smith and possibly fail, and then alienate Lawrence in the process. Also, I'd argue Lawrence is better than Smith. He has a much longer track record and has far less help around him. Green Bay has a much better secondary than Dallas, at every position, and more help along the D-line, so Smith's job is far easier than that of Lawrence. 

I don't think I could disagree more with your last sentence. The talent disparity at RB is easily the smallest of any position, that is the biggest reason why the position has been declining in value. The supply far outweighs the demand. The difference between CMC and say the 20th best RB(which is about where I'd have Melvin Gordon, tying it back to him since its his thread) is probably 1 win at most. 

1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

How is a hurry or pressure more important than a sack? A sack is a loss of down and loss of yardage. The best case scenario on a pressure is an incomplete pass - I suppose an occasional interception can occur but that’s going to be rare - but good things for the offense can also result despite a hurry/pressure.

And I’m not arguing those things aren’t important or even taking a stance on Lawrence. I’m just not sure what I’m missing on that point.

A sack is more important than a hurry or pressure. What I was saying is that a hurry or pressure is more indicative of a players performance than a sack. Sacks are often a function of coverage, or a QB being moved to a spot by another rusher, or just a blocking breakdown. Hurries and pressures can happen that way too, but the sample size is much larger and filters out the more fluky plays. Pressures/hurries are more of a sign of a player beating his man consistently. 

For example, a few years back, Vic Beasley lead the NFL in sacks, However if you looked at his pressure/hurry numbers, he wasn't anything special. He had a bunch of sacks where he just happened to be the one to get there after plays broke down, and where he was blocked by a TE or RB. If you looked at that, it was pretty easy to see that he had a fluky season, and that he would come crashing down to earth, although not to the extent he has. Some team will see that big sack number from a few years back and think, "oh yeah, that player is still in there, we can fix him" but the truth is he was never better than maybe a "C+" player, and has been a solid "F" since. If it weren't for that big sack season, Beasley might be XFL bound, and that would be reasonable.

I think defensive play is misjudged a lot of the time, because the stats that are valued highly, are your splashy plays, like sacks and INT's. But a guy can have 2 sacks and an INT, and have been awful that game for all but those 3 plays. On the flip side, a guy can complete everything that is asked of him, but if he doesn't have those splashy plays he's viewed as a JAG. Adrian Amos is a great example of that. He's one of the 5 best Safeties in the NFL, but he's not an INT or sack guy, he's a doesn't screw up ever guy, who bails out teammates constantly. Its no coincidence that the Bears secondary sharply declined when he left, and Green Bay got a ton better by adding him. Eddie Jackson was a turnover machine in 2018, because he had the freedom of knowing Amos would bail him out if he didn't make the play. That was gone in 2019(even though Ha Ha is a good Safety himself, it wasn't the same, or even close) and that existed in Green Bay, which allowed their CB's to play more aggressively, which in turn helped guys like Z'Darius Smith get sacks.

Anyway, I apologize for hijacking the Gordon thread. 

 

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13 hours ago, SproutDaddy said:

Terrible logic as usual.

Be more cool to each other. If you disagree with a point, make your case why you disagree. Thanks.

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3 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

If Gordon lands in Houston or Tampa Bay, he is gold for the next few years. 

Depends who Tampa Bay has at quarterback. 

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18 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Depends who Tampa Bay has at quarterback. 

I really don't think so.  Not as long as BA is coaching the team.  I think BA can coach offense and that Gordon gives him a piece that doesn't leave the field.  

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Just now, Hairy Snowman said:

I really don't think so.  Not as long as BA is coaching the team.  I think BA can coach offense and that Gordon gives him a piece that doesn't leave the field.  

BA is indeed coach, but if they run a dud at QB, there will be eight in the box, and even the geniuses can't coach around that.

And Leftwich has full reins as OC, which was noted last year with gusto by those in the know. BA didn't take credit for play calling a la Belichick and others. 

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8 hours ago, rockaction said:

BA is indeed coach, but if they run a dud at QB, there will be eight in the box, and even the geniuses can't coach around that.

And Leftwich has full reins as OC, which was noted last year with gusto by those in the know. BA didn't take credit for play calling a la Belichick and others. 

I am not talking about necessarily winning games.  If there are 8 in the box, he can send the RBs into pass patterns like he has most of his career.  He is not a dummy.  He knows how to coach offense.  Don't think for a second Leftwich is not apprenticing with BA  

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25 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

I am not talking about necessarily winning games.  If there are 8 in the box, he can send the RBs into pass patterns like he has most of his career.  He is not a dummy.  He knows how to coach offense.  Don't think for a second Leftwich is not apprenticing with BA  

And has been for awhile. The offense is still predicated on taking shots deep, and as long as their qb can chuck it they won’t have 8 in. Plus you have evans and Godwin out there, go ahead and rush 8 please, you don’t need some genius qb to figure out what to do. 

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11 hours ago, rockaction said:

BA is indeed coach, but if they run a dud at QB, there will be eight in the box, and even the geniuses can't coach around that.

And Leftwich has full reins as OC, which was noted last year with gusto by those in the know. BA didn't take credit for play calling a la Belichick and others. 

With Arians' age it's unlikely the Bucs rely on a rookie QB. I think it will either be Rivers, Bridgewater or Winston under center in TB next season.

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11 hours ago, Hairy Snowman said:

If Gordon lands in Houston or Tampa Bay, he is gold for the next few years. 

This is my hope as a shareholder. Tennessee would be fine if they let Henry go to save some money, but I have no idea what their cap looks like. 

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