Ran a 10k - Official Thread (7 Viewers)

SteveC702 said:

That was heartbreaking, I'll post a race report later since my flight back to the states is boarding soon. For now, it looks like I am going to Australia in early July for one last shot at this thing. Screw my retirement savings, when I am old, fat, and broke I can look back knowing I did everything I can to make this happen.

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Wishing the best for Australia!  You have been an inspiration not just as a runner but more so by your dedication in chasing a dream!

So awesome. For those of us who aren't regulars here... What is the goal that you're chasing down under? Top10 finish? A some specific time? Qualifier for something? 

Edit: just saw the Olympic qualifier post! Not sure how I missed that... Jesus

I know you say heartbreaker but that is an insane finish. Huge props 

SteveC702 said:

Thanks guys!!!

I don't think the Canadians knew Ottawa could get this hot either. I had the weather channel on in the background while doing some work in my hotel room and they were talking about how they could see record setting temperatures this weekend.

Also, great timing on bringing up the suck index discussion again. It looks like I might be racing in the high-120s / mid-130s if current forecast holds up. I think I may end up going out just a tad slower than goal pace since in my experience this "SI index" zone only calls for about a 3-5s/mi adjustment. I also got back from the elite athlete meeting and found out about 10-12 out of the 25 or so Africans entered are rabbits, so it makes a top 10 finish even more possible now. .

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Around here we call that winter.

Rock Australia Steve! 

80% humidity, with an SI of 144 this morning, might have been a bad day to start running again using MAF.  By mile 6 I was running in the 10s.   Can't blame the SI too much though, this might be the third time I've ran since Cinco de mayo.

2016 Ottawa Marathon - The Almost Perfect Storm

The 2016 Ottawa Marathon was one of the last chances for a dozen of us from different countries to try to qualify for Rio. As I previously mentioned, the time standard we had to hit was 2:19:00, but since the race is one of 25-30 marathons around the world with the designated "IAAF Gold Label", a top 10 finish also counted as a qualifier. The weather forecast leading up to the race looked great 10 days out (race day low of 45-48), then slowly worsened to the point where we were looking at 68-70 degrees at race start, and finally the day before the race the start time temperature forecast was around 66, but with a dew point of 56. So the "Suck index" was on the low end of where performances may still need to be adjusted. Having run my half-marathon PR last June with a SI in the low-mid 120s, I was optimistic about my chances of still hitting the time qualifier, and with the race providing a 2:19 pacer it made the option even more enticing, so I committed to going out with the 2:19 pack for at least 5K and see how it feels.

At the start the lead pack of Kenyans and Ethiopians took off, with a few stragglers a bit behind them, then it was our pack of about 7-8 guys or so. There were a couple of nice downhills to start the race (not as steep as the first quarter mile at Boston, but maybe 1/2 - 1/3rd as steep) and we rolled through the first 1K at about 5:10-5:11 pace. My first reaction was to drop to the back and let the group go right away, but then the pacer settled back down and seemed to find his rhythm, so I relaxed behind him and we hit the 5K in 16:26. (2:19 pace is 16:28/5K) The effort felt right and I was optimistic at this point.

The second 5K was a different story. We were about a second fast in the next km (for those wondering why I am quoting "k"s, apparently all races outside of the U.S. are marked in kilometers and not miles). I missed the 7K mark though and my watch auto-lapped with a 5:11 mile, and I can definitely feel the extra 7s that we just banked. Knowing there's no way in hell I am going to be able to keep running 5:11s (2:16 marathon pace), especially in this weather, I drop to the back of the pack and get ready to let them go. However, the pacer slowed down again and I caught the pack. Then, when the pack bunched up the pacer would slowly pick up the pace again and I got sucked into going with them. This pattern  went on for the next 5K or so until we hit 12K (7.5 miles) when I finally let the pack go for good. In the middle of this, I hit the fastest opening 10K that I have ever run for a marathon (32:45), even faster than what I ran in Houston and Hamburg when the weather conditions early on were pretty much perfect.

At this point. I had dialed back my effort to about 5:25-5;35/mi pace and was pretty much gambling that enough people would fall off the pace for me to sneak in for a top 10 finish. There was a long out-and-back stretch right around 15K, so I started counting all the runners going the other way. There were 12 Africans or so in the lead pack (which was great news already, since I knew there were 3 pacers in the group and 12-15 other guys entered, so the conditions were already taking its toll). Then I saw 1-2 stragglers behind them followed by the pack of 7-8 guys in the 2:19 pack I just let go. Bottom line, by the time I made it to 15K I think I was in 21st place, with at least 5 pacers in front of me that were most likely going to drop out. So really I just have to catch 6 more guys.

The next 15K felt like a tempo run. I kept the effort in control, although if you look at my strava data my HR really wasn't that much lower (if at all) during this stretch than the prior stretch. Perhaps it was just the lack of pressure to hit certain splits that made the effort feel more comfortable. I was definitely still running hard, but more so just bidding my time and figuring I would make a move in the last 8-10K. I remember moving into the top 20 right around the HM mark, and then passing one of my friends (who is a dual citizen like me and trying to make the Croatian team) around 25K. Then I saw a couple of Africans on the side of the road between 25-30K so I knew I was slowly making my way into the top 15. In fact, I thought if the rabbits all dropped out like they were supposed to I might be 13th or 14th. Although, alarmingly, I could feel my hamstrings tightening quite a bit on a downhill stretch around 27-28K (so 8-9 miles to go). I backed off the pace some more and it seemed to be fine, but shortly after 35K my left hamstring seized up and stopped me dead in my tracks for about a minute. I tried not to panic and walk it off, and thankfully it loosened up enough that I continued on.

The defining moment came shortly after this, when my friend's wife was on the side of the course and yelled to me that I was in 11th with 10th place about 40 seconds ahead of me, and that there was still one rabbit in the top 10 (you can tell by the color on their bibs) that should drop out soon. I remember coming up a minor climb right after she told me, took a 90 degree left turn and spotted 10th place walking on the side of the road. I cruise past him and tried to stay as relaxed as I can. I even dialed back the effort just a notch so make sure my legs would make it to the finish line okay. Then right before I hit 39K (2 miles to go) my right hamstring cramped up too. I couldn't believe that was happening despite me slowing down the pace by about 10-15s/mi already since I passed 10th place, but I just tried to stay calm. I tried to walk it out, rub it out, and looked back to see if anyone was coming. 15 seconds... nobody... 30 seconds... nobody... 45 seconds... crap... two guys running... 60 seconds after being stopped by this hamstring the two guys pass me. I tried getting back into running at this point but it was still too stiff, so I tried at least walking some. It was another 40 seconds before they loosened up enough for me to run, during which time the lead women and also the top 2 half-marathoners (they started 75 minutes after us) passed me. At this point, I knew that I had to go catch those two guys in the full marathon. I started running pretty much as hard as I could. I knew if my legs seized up again I was done, but if I don't at least catch one of those guys and pray that the rabbit that was still left in the race dropped out, then I was definitely out of the top 10.

The last 2.2K were a blur. I just remember running as hard as I could for those last 7+ minutes. I finally caught one of the guys at 41K and gave it everything I had the last 1200 meters. I covered the last 1200 meters in 3:51 (5:08 pace) according to my watch, but the guy in 10th place held it together well and I could only make up a little over half of the 43 second lead he had over me at 40K.

For the next 5-10 minutes or so I was walking around asking almost every volunteer I could find if I could borrow their phone to look at results, when finally one of my friends bailed me out and handed me his phone. I made a mental note to myself before the results page loaded not to smash the phone if I was in fact 11th. I was obviously emotional for a few minutes after the bad news was confirmed... one of the pacers stayed in the race and finished for some extra $$$...

I suppose I could be more upset about the situation, it's absolutely brutal to know I had an Olympic qualifier in hand with 3 miles to go and if a number of other factors went my way I would most likely be heading to Rio. (If it took my legs 20 seconds quicker to loosen up, if one more guy dropped out, if I had backed off the pace even earlier, if I had ...) But at the end of the day I played the hand I was dealt the best way I could with the information I had at the time. I deal with the conditions as best as I could (took 5-6 gels, drank from multiple cups of nuun/water at every station and poured some on myself, took sponge at both sponge stations, etc...). To make a gambling analogy here (since most of us play FF), it's like complaining about losing a FF championship after you put a flex WR that's caught 5 passes all season into your lineup at the last minute because everyone else is hurt, he goes off for 5/100/2 but drop a TD pass on the last play of the game and you end up losing your FF championship by 2 points. It stings, but not as much as when you sit back and realize mathematically you probably shouldn't have even been that close.

It could end up being a blessing in disguise anyways. Taiwan already has one qualifier in the marathon, so there are actually 3 of us competing for the last 2 spots. (one of the other runners is already signed up for Gold Coast, the other is almost certainly going to be there after his last qualifying attempt didn't go well either). If I had qualified yesterday with a 2:24-2:25 via a top 10 qualifier and those guys both get the time or also qualify via top 10 finishes but with faster times, then I may still be the odd man out. Now the race in Gold Coast may in fact turn out to be the unofficial Olympic Trials for Taiwan.

The great news today is I can walk down stairs fine. In fact, other than some tightness in a few spots in my legs, I feel much better today than I did after the downhill half marathon I ran 3 weeks ago. The plan now is to take a couple of days off, jog easy for a couple of days and pace one of my friends through a 1:14-1:15 at RnR San Diego this weekend. Then I'll do a few fairly controlled tempos in the 17-18 days following that. My friend who has been acting as a consultant for coaching advice for me the last few months also echoed my sentiment of getting in some hamstring/hip/glute work after I feel fully recovered from the race and I should be able to see enough benefits in the 17-21 days of doing them before I cut them out 10 days or so before Gold Coast.

Man, SteveC. Hell of an effort. I can feel your heartbreak, but I must say am also inspired by your positive attitude coming out of it.
 

Good luck in Australia. Can't wait to follow you along that journey as well.

Suck index currently 162 here in memphis. Very glad I knocked my run out this am at 7am when it was only in low 140s. Got 2.3mi in and was struggling a bit but was dehydrated and exhausted from 3 days of partying. Just doing one short run wed am to loosen legs before 5k sat. 

Hip aching a bit but nothing too terrible. 

[icon] said:

Suck index currently 162 here in memphis. Very glad I knocked my run out this am at 7am when it was only in low 140s. Got 2.3mi in and was struggling a bit but was dehydrated and exhausted from 3 days of partying. Just doing one short run wed am to loosen legs before 5k sat. 

Hip aching a bit but nothing too terrible. 

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Yeah, its been bad here too. The suck index can suck it. Now i remember what I didnt want to train for a marathon in the summer.

Thanks for the report SteveC. You fast guys are amazing to me, I dont know how it is even possible to be that fast. I really hope you realize your goal and I look forward to your Australia venture.

I did the Tucson meet me downtown 5K Saturday night. It was in the 90s at race time. I went in with the goal of getting my max HR. 179 HR was the highest I hit. I thought I did better then I actually did. I ended up on my Garmin with 9:04 pace, in my mind I thought I was around 8:30. I purposely did not look at my watch during the race. It was a fun race but really hot. Free beer at the end was awesome. Great community event.

This week I will stop paying attention to my HR and try to just run comfortable and see what the HR is.

prosopis said:

I did the Tucson meet me downtown 5K Saturday night. It was in the 90s at race time. I went in with the goal of getting my max HR. 179 HR was the highest I hit. I thought I did better then I actually did. I ended up on my Garmin with 9:04 pace, in my mind I thought I was around 8:30. I purposely did not look at my watch during the race. It was a fun race but really hot. Free beer at the end was awesome. Great community event.

This week I will stop paying attention to my HR and try to just run comfortable and see what the HR is.

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Nice job. That's a brutal temp for a 5K.

As others have told me, you can usually add a few more heart beats to that. So you may really be at around 185 or so. If I remember, I thought my max was around 189ish, and then I hit 191 in a race. I think I may have actually hit higher than that in training. 

Edit to add: hit 195 in training before.

Is there any concern with heart rate? It sounds like you guys are trying to hit higher rates... I was under the impression too high could be dangerous? 

[icon] said:

Is there any concern with heart rate? It sounds like you guys are trying to hit higher rates... I was under the impression too high could be dangerous? 

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They are trying to estimate what their max HRs are.  This can then be used to figure out HR training zones that can be computed as a percentage of max.  

As far as being dangerous, I guess that depends on your health.  A healthy person's body will get so quickly fatigued running near their max that they could only hold that for maybe a minute or two before being forced to slow down.

Simply incredible @SteveC702 , what an amazing effort in tough conditions.  I have no idea what to tell you, I feel so bad that you came that close to your Olympic dream.  I am amazed by your work ethic in training, your balls in racing, and your willingness to keep going after it.  I would have run out of emotional bullets two marathons ago.  Hopefully you’ll get some favorable weather conditions at Gold Coast. 

pbm107 said:

Simply incredible @SteveC702 , what an amazing effort in tough conditions.  I have no idea what to tell you, I feel so bad that you came that close to your Olympic dream.  I am amazed by your work ethic in training, your balls in racing, and your willingness to keep going after it.  I would have run out of emotional bullets two marathons ago.  Hopefully you’ll get some favorable weather conditions at Gold Coast. 

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This. 

Fantastic Effort Steve.  Damn!

Screw your retirement! GO! 

Ditto what pbm and others said, unbelievable effort and determination Steve. 

[icon] said:

Is there any concern with heart rate? It sounds like you guys are trying to hit higher rates... I was under the impression too high could be dangerous? 

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What Jux said.  Also, doing all of your training at high HR is generally less than ideal as it can lead to injury and burnout, but getting up there once in a while can be a good thing depending on your previous training, current plan and a lot of other factors.

worrierking said:

Fantastic Effort Steve.  Damn!

Screw your retirement! GO! 

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Retirement is mostly about enjoying the latter part of your life.  You're going to enjoy the memory of doing this a lot more than anything else you might spend the money on later.  We're all  for you! 

FUBAR said:

YTD:

B: 34x / 42.5 hrs / 844.6 miles

R: 77x / 75.5 hours / 539.9 miles

S: 28x / 24 hrs /  79,750 yds

ST: 19x

so a good month for swimming, pretty decent for cycling, running took a big hit as planned.  Strength training though... I'll have to make that a priority going forward. 

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May:

B: 13x / 21.5 hrs /  434.5 miles

R: 8x / 6.5 hrs /  43.9 miles 

S: 12x / 8.5 hrs / 27,500 yards 

ST: 5x

YTD:

B: 47x / 64 hrs / 1279.1 miles

R: 85x / 82hrs / 583.8 mi miles

S: 40x / 32.5 hrs /  107,250 yds

ST: 24x

Obviously my running took a dive for the second month but I'm feeling a lot better now (other than my ego), it was a good month for riding (130 more than April) and swimming (8k fewer yards but still solid).  I'll get more strength training in during June with no races scheduled.  June's goals are 370.9 miles riding, 116.2 miles running, 22,750 yards swimming, and 12 strength sessions. That should equate to ~48 hours of training and round off the first six months.

@SteveC702 - I was out camping this weekend and couldn't wait to find a cell signal so I could check up on you.  I was so heart broken for you when I saw the results.  The way you keep bouncing back and rolling with the punches is so incredibly inspiring to me.  Thank you for sharing this journey with us; regardless of the outcome!  Here's to Australia being the magic moment!

Are you concerned about cumulative fatigue at all?  

@SteveC702, others have already said it better than I could. So cool to see the insight into the training and racing of a dude on your level.   Keep chasing that dream and go get some in Australia!

Ned said:

@SteveC702 - I was out camping this weekend and couldn't wait to find a cell signal so I could check up on you.  I was so heart broken for you when I saw the results.  The way you keep bouncing back and rolling with the punches is so incredibly inspiring to me.  Thank you for sharing this journey with us; regardless of the outcome!  Here's to Australia being the magic moment!

Are you concerned about cumulative fatigue at all?  

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Thanks @Ned. Hope you enjoyed the trip.

I got the "cumulative fatigue" question from a couple of other people recently as well and how to reconcile that with the traditional suggestion of a 4-6 months build-up. So I have had quite awhile to reflect on these issues...

My thoughts are this: If you really emptied out your gas tank during a marathon, it probably does take most people 2-4 weeks to fully recover. Depending on your background and motivation, your recovery period will either require complete rest or permit you some level of activity, (cross-training or anywhere from 0-100% of your normal training mileage) which will determine if you lose/maintain/gain fitness during this recovery period. I had 4 peak marathons in the last 18 months - 2015 Houston, 2016 Houston, 2016 Hamburg, and 2016 Ottawa, and what I have realized is that I am usually able to run about 50-80% of my peak training volume from the prior training cycle within 2 weeks after the marathon (meaning days 8-14 post marathon). Then I can get in 2-4 workouts at 80-90% of what I would do during an more extended cycle - examples being running 3x2mi at lactate threshold or 10-12 miles at marathon pace when I may normally be running 4x2mi or 13-16 at marathon pace, this seems to strike a good balance between recovery and maintaining fitness, or even gaining a little bit of fitness before a quick taper. I am walking a fine line between recovery/maintenance during these short turnarounds, but definitely erring on the side of recovery, as I believe the fitness has been there since at least mid-March and it doesn't seem to take a lot to maintain fitness.

Looking long-term, I don't think it's wise to race a peak marathon every 5-6 weeks, as I think I would only be giving myself at most 7-10 days in the middle of those cycles to make fitness gains before having to taper again, whereas in an extended 12-18 weeks cycle you are giving yourself at least 2-3 months to make fitness gains. The only reason I am doing what I am doing now, other than having a timeline to follow, is that I think I am already in shape to run the time I need to, so I am not looking for fitness gains. Instead, I just need to make sure I am recovered in between these efforts. The crazy thing is I am actually feeling much more fresh today than I did at the same point after my last few marathons. I am guessing it's because I didn't get to "empty the tank" as much since my legs failed me and prevented me from putting as much effort into the race aerobically. The hamstring issues also seem to be related to hydration, as I took in a LOT of fluids in the last 24-36 hours right after the race and they feel pretty much normal now. In fact, this may be the best I have felt aerobically/physically 48 hours post marathon.

With all that said, after Gold Coast (and hopefully Rio), I don't think I plan on peaking for another marathon until late fall at the earliest, with early 2017 being a much more likely timeline.

SteveC702 said:

Thanks @Ned. Hope you enjoyed the trip.

I got the "cumulative fatigue" question from a couple of other people recently as well and how to reconcile that with the traditional suggestion of a 4-6 months build-up. So I have had quite awhile to reflect on these issues...

My thoughts are this: If you really emptied out your gas tank during a marathon, it probably does take most people 2-4 weeks to fully recover. Depending on your background and motivation, your recovery period will either require complete rest or permit you some level of activity, (cross-training or anywhere from 0-100% of your normal training mileage) which will determine if you lose/maintain/gain fitness during this recovery period. I had 4 peak marathons in the last 18 months - 2015 Houston, 2016 Houston, 2016 Hamburg, and 2016 Ottawa, and what I have realized is that I am usually able to run about 50-80% of my peak training volume from the prior training cycle within 2 weeks after the marathon (meaning days 8-14 post marathon). Then I can get in 2-4 workouts at 80-90% of what I would do during an more extended cycle - examples being running 3x2mi at lactate threshold or 10-12 miles at marathon pace when I may normally be running 4x2mi or 13-16 at marathon pace, this seems to strike a good balance between recovery and maintaining fitness, or even gaining a little bit of fitness before a quick taper. I am walking a fine line between recovery/maintenance during these short turnarounds, but definitely erring on the side of recovery, as I believe the fitness has been there since at least mid-March and it doesn't seem to take a lot to maintain fitness.

Looking long-term, I don't think it's wise to race a peak marathon every 5-6 weeks, as I think I would only be giving myself at most 7-10 days in the middle of those cycles to make fitness gains before having to taper again, whereas in an extended 12-18 weeks cycle you are giving yourself at least 2-3 months to make fitness gains. The only reason I am doing what I am doing now, other than having a timeline to follow, is that I think I am already in shape to run the time I need to, so I am not looking for fitness gains. Instead, I just need to make sure I am recovered in between these efforts. The crazy thing is I am actually feeling much more fresh today than I did at the same point after my last few marathons. I am guessing it's because I didn't get to "empty the tank" as much since my legs failed me and prevented me from putting as much effort into the race aerobically. The hamstring issues also seem to be related to hydration, as I took in a LOT of fluids in the last 24-36 hours right after the race and they feel pretty much normal now. In fact, this may be the best I have felt aerobically/physically 48 hours post marathon.

With all that said, after Gold Coast (and hopefully Rio), I don't think I plan on peaking for another marathon until late fall at the earliest, with early 2017 being a much more likely timeline.

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we're not in the same stratosphere here, but that correlates to what I was feeling last week.  My HIM didn't come close to depleting me aerobically (mostly because of fear of pushing the injury too far).  So last week I had one of my best recent swim sessions, a couple rides that felt great, and overall I felt much better than previous events.  Taper combined with not destroying ourselves probably led to these feelings.

My only concern for you would be to not rush things in an all out effort to reach your goal.  Don't overdo it.  What I've read and heard from the people near your level are they get more gains from resting well than from pushing, after a certain point.

SteveC702 said:

The hamstring issues also seem to be related to hydration

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Perhaps the cramping wasn't due to dehydration. Who knows for sure, but the link makes a lot of sense to me.  Part V of the link even states:

“I swallow an electrolyte pill and my cramping stops.” This is a comment we hear often, and although we cannot explain this physiologically, the more important message is that you have found something that works for you. We cannot stress how important this is! All the science in the world can point to something, but if what you are doing works for you, then you are better to stick with that technique.

SteveC702 said:

Thanks @Ned. Hope you enjoyed the trip.

I got the "cumulative fatigue" question from a couple of other people recently as well and how to reconcile that with the traditional suggestion of a 4-6 months build-up. So I have had quite awhile to reflect on these issues...

My thoughts are this: If you really emptied out your gas tank during a marathon, it probably does take most people 2-4 weeks to fully recover. Depending on your background and motivation, your recovery period will either require complete rest or permit you some level of activity, (cross-training or anywhere from 0-100% of your normal training mileage) which will determine if you lose/maintain/gain fitness during this recovery period. I had 4 peak marathons in the last 18 months - 2015 Houston, 2016 Houston, 2016 Hamburg, and 2016 Ottawa, and what I have realized is that I am usually able to run about 50-80% of my peak training volume from the prior training cycle within 2 weeks after the marathon (meaning days 8-14 post marathon). Then I can get in 2-4 workouts at 80-90% of what I would do during an more extended cycle - examples being running 3x2mi at lactate threshold or 10-12 miles at marathon pace when I may normally be running 4x2mi or 13-16 at marathon pace, this seems to strike a good balance between recovery and maintaining fitness, or even gaining a little bit of fitness before a quick taper. I am walking a fine line between recovery/maintenance during these short turnarounds, but definitely erring on the side of recovery, as I believe the fitness has been there since at least mid-March and it doesn't seem to take a lot to maintain fitness.

Looking long-term, I don't think it's wise to race a peak marathon every 5-6 weeks, as I think I would only be giving myself at most 7-10 days in the middle of those cycles to make fitness gains before having to taper again, whereas in an extended 12-18 weeks cycle you are giving yourself at least 2-3 months to make fitness gains. The only reason I am doing what I am doing now, other than having a timeline to follow, is that I think I am already in shape to run the time I need to, so I am not looking for fitness gains. Instead, I just need to make sure I am recovered in between these efforts. The crazy thing is I am actually feeling much more fresh today than I did at the same point after my last few marathons. I am guessing it's because I didn't get to "empty the tank" as much since my legs failed me and prevented me from putting as much effort into the race aerobically. The hamstring issues also seem to be related to hydration, as I took in a LOT of fluids in the last 24-36 hours right after the race and they feel pretty much normal now. In fact, this may be the best I have felt aerobically/physically 48 hours post marathon.

With all that said, after Gold Coast (and hopefully Rio), I don't think I plan on peaking for another marathon until late fall at the earliest, with early 2017 being a much more likely timeline.

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Mind blowing stuff.  

@SteveC702, what a ####### inspiration.

I took Monday off running (first time in 13 days), but 3+ hours of yard work replaced it.  Spent 5 hours Saturday helping a friend move after knocking out 13 in the morning soup and my pace/energy levels were already tailing due to the increase in miles, so I expected to be beat and do another recovery today but to my surprise - I felt fresh.  I could have done a lot more than I did, but I didn't want to burn myself out doing this workout right now and was satisfied with what I completed.  Struggling with exact figures since I started and finished mid-mile, but I think I did 4 miles in a shade over 25 mins - 6:45 pace going uphill, about 5:55 going down.  I was getting uncomfortable towards the end (148 suck index helped), but probably only the halfway point of a 5K uncomfortable.  While I want that 5K PR my greater focus this month will be on getting out the door in the 6's (or *gulp* 5's) once/week to do a weekly medium-long run before work.  After setting weekly high's the week after the half (44) then one-upping it last week (50) leading to a new monthly high (182) being able to finish with that workout and feel as well as I do right now?  I'm pretty stoked.  Still not looking forward to tomorrow morning's alarm though...

Ran my 6th half marathon this past weekend in Madison WI.  It was hot and hilly, but I started out strong.  Probably too strong (ie too fast).  Was at a 9:05 pace through 5 miles.....but slipped in the middle of the race and finished at 2:07.  I was bummed because it was 8 minutes slower than my time on the same course last year.  But then I thought back to a few months ago.....after my first marathon.....when my body was so beaten up that I couldn't run 3 miles without pain.  And then I started feeling better about this weekend's run.

My focus for the next 8 weeks is going to be a) build endurance, b) do some speed work, c) get a healthier diet - that has been a weak point lately.

Thanks for this thread everyone.  I've learned so much from this group the past 2.5 years. 

I don't know how many of you follow Greg McMillan, but this morning I was thinking about this:

I learned from Lydiard that it's about doing the training so you can do the training so you can do the training. Gradual build to peak form

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For you Fall marathoners today starts that 2nd training phase.

Wow, I'm new to all of this but that race report is heartbreaking. You have another fan rooting for you @SteveC702.  Nothing is more inspiring than seeing someone give it everything they have going after their dream.  

pbm107 said:

I don't know how many of you follow Greg McMillan, but this morning I was thinking about this:

For you Fall marathoners today starts that 2nd training phase.

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What's your plan for the Fall? You sticking with the same Pfitz plan you did last year or changing it up? Running Philly again? 

Hang 10 said:

pbm107 said:

I don't know how many of you follow Greg McMillan, but this morning I was thinking about this:

For you Fall marathoners today starts that 2nd training phase.

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What's your plan for the Fall? You sticking with the same Pfitz plan you did last year or changing it up? Running Philly again? 

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I'd like to hear what the Fall/Winter marathoners are planning on doing! 

I'm probably going to do my same modified 18/85 starting on 8/1.  Will be building up starting now and should get back into the 60s by mid-July.  18/85 still scares the bejeezus out of me, but I know it works.  Just a measly 1,631 miles mapped out for the next 6 months.  

Hang 10 said:

What's your plan for the Fall? You sticking with the same Pfitz plan you did last year or changing it up? Running Philly again? 

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I signed up for Philly and will be following the same Pfitz 18/85 mile plan.  However I will be missing the 2nd week of training because I am taking the family to Disney.

How about you? Did you signup for your race yet?  Going with the Pfitz 70 plan again?

pbm107 said:

I signed up for Philly and will be following the same Pfitz 18/85 mile plan.  However I will be missing the 2nd week of training because I am taking the family to Disney.

How about you? Did you signup for your race yet?  Going with the Pfitz 70 plan again?

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Are you going to do all of the doubles?  I struggled with those last time.

I signed up for Richmond (Nov. 12) again and will most likely use Pfitz 70. I'm sorta debating how strictly I'll try to follow it though. I'd like to do more strength and hill work this time around. Trying to figure how to fit it all in. 

Ned said:

Are you going to do all of the doubles?  I struggled with those last time.

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I am going to try to do the doubles, I did bail on a lot of them last time.  I think I am in a better position this year and hope that I can handle them.  I think you'll have a better experience this year with the plan doing most of the quality training in the Fall rather than the summer.  The next two months are critical for you to build your base. 

pbm107 said:

Ned said:

Are you going to do all of the doubles?  I struggled with those last time.

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I am going to try to do the doubles, I did bail on a lot of them last time.  I think I am in a better position this year and hope that I can handle them.  I think you'll have a better experience this year with the plan doing most of the quality training in the Fall rather than the summer.  I think the next two months are critical for you to build your base. 

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Getting (mentally) up for those PM runs was the hardest part for me, especially since it impacts the family a lot more than those early AM runs.  Both boys are now on travel soccer teams, so I am going to be juggling a lot in the evenings.  I may try to work in some running while at soccer practice.

Yup, I was thinking about the bold this morning as I was slogging through the humidity.  It felt good to be able to grind through it - my legs weren't terribly fresh.  It brought back a lot of (sadistic) fond memories of those midweek MLRs.

So my wife and I had our 4th run this morning, basically we're doing C25k.  Last week we started walking/light jogging a couple days just to see how it felt and how shoes fit and I had a run on my own at first.  So today was officially C25 day 2 for us.

I think we're doing pretty good, we both felt good afterwards, the schedule seems to work great so no real barrier to getting out there and doing it 3 times a week.  It's hard because of my weight but definitely not too hard.  Hopefully as I start seeing results from my diet the lighter I get the easier the runs will be.

So today while running I had some tightness/pain on the outside of my legs.  Not my shin and not really my calf.  So if my leg was a clock and the center of my shin was 12 o'clock  the pain is about 10 o'clock on left leg and 2 o'clock on the right leg.  I know I have under-pronation because my shoes always wear out on the outside edges.  The pain is a muscle soreness.  My wife has a very similar pain on the inside of her leg about 8 o'clock on her right leg.  She was saying my ankle hurts but when she showed me the pain it was the muscles above her ankle on the inside of her leg.  Said it hurt a bit while walking but doesn't hurt as much when we actually run.

Neither of these pains are terrible or causing us not to be able to run.  I just want to ask if this is normal, just muscles that have been dormant for a long time getting some use and getting a bit sore.  Or, maybe something we should stretch better or a specific way.  Any advice?  I just don't want to ignore something small and have it become something bigger if I can do something about it now.

Otherwise it seems to be going great.  We're going on vacation back up to NJ to see our families in two weeks and we've already been planning where we're going to run and what days so my wife has the long term mindset I was really hoping she would.  So far so good.

Ned said:

I'd like to hear what the Fall/Winter marathoners are planning on doing! 

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My plan is to do the Pfitz 18/55 plan, but I'm not sure I am ready for it. Couple that with my vacation starting the end of next week and goes for 10 days and I am already starting behind the 8-ball. I try and run as much as possible there, but my family gets my time during that period.  My official program starts next week.

Probably just modify it somewhat as best I can and see what happens.

I think I may do more doubles to keep my mileage up. I think investing in a treadmill for my garage is going to payoff.  I don't want to do too many longish runs on it but it's perfect for the shorter stuff when I don't want to deal with the hot ### sun. This will let me sleep in on recovery days and hopefully catch up on rest. 

I did just check my history, and last May I ran 68.63 miles. This May I ran 105.52. 

So I at least have that going for me leading into my marathon training this year vs. last.

Hang 10 said:

I think I may do more doubles to keep my mileage up. I think investing in a treadmill for my garage is going to payoff.  I don't want to do too many longish runs on it but it's perfect for the shorter stuff when I don't want to deal with the hot ### sun. This will let me sleep in on recovery days and hopefully catch up on rest. 

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That is one of my top rules during marathon training, which ironically made doing the doubles difficult.

Naps are also critical for me once I start pounding the early morning runs.  

ChiefD said:

I did just check my history, and last May I ran 68.63 miles. This May I ran 105.52. 

So I at least have that going for me leading into my marathon training this year vs. last.

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That is a good plus.  

Just a word of caution on jumping into 18/55 - looks like your last 4 weeks averaged 22 mpw.  That's kind of low leading up to that schedule, so I'd definitely look to modify the schedule a bit when you start out.  Right off the bat on Day 1 is an 8/4 tempo.  

Ned said:

That is one of my top rules during marathon training, which ironically made doing the doubles difficult.

Naps are also critical for me once I start pounding the early morning runs.  

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Yeah, don't really ever nap. Doesn't ever seem to fit in with daily life. 

IDK...part of me thinks I should just try to do what I did last year because it worked out pretty well but the other part thinks I can put my time to better use by maximizing my overall fitness. Decisions...decisions...

18 week or 12 week? Is it better to start the schedule 18 weeks out or build the first 6 weeks at your own pace? Not sure I'll be ready to be follow some rigid plan in a month. 

lombardi said:

So today while running I had some tightness/pain on the outside of my legs.  Not my shin and not really my calf.  So if my leg was a clock and the center of my shin was 12 o'clock  the pain is about 10 o'clock on left leg and 2 o'clock on the right leg.  I know I have under-pronation because my shoes always wear out on the outside edges.  The pain is a muscle soreness.  My wife has a very similar pain on the inside of her leg about 8 o'clock on her right leg.  She was saying my ankle hurts but when she showed me the pain it was the muscles above her ankle on the inside of her leg.  Said it hurt a bit while walking but doesn't hurt as much when we actually run.

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Good start! 

I'm sure those nagging pains are due to using muscles you're not used to using.   Yours could be the start of shin splints (super common for new runners).    Ice is your friend!

Are you two warming up before heading out?

Ned said:

That is a good plus.  

Just a word of caution on jumping into 18/55 - looks like your last 4 weeks averaged 22 mpw.  That's kind of low leading up to that schedule, so I'd definitely look to modify the schedule a bit when you start out.  Right off the bat on Day 1 is an 8/4 tempo.  

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Yeah, that's where the modification comes in.   My plan was to try and ramp up better in May, but work life has been a real stresser lately and mentally I'm in a pissed off frame of mind right now. Might be time for a change there. 

I will use that plan as a basis but definitely back off a little on the mileage early on. Vacation puts a big wrench in things but being in Minnesota I may try and ramp up what I would normally do during that week to take advantage of hopefully some cooler temps.

Ned said:

Good start! 

I'm sure those nagging pains are due to using muscles you're not used to using.   Yours could be the start of shin splints (super common for new runners).    Ice is your friend!

Are you two warming up before heading out?

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this

do a little walking before you start that day's run.  5 minutes does it for me. just enough to wake everything up.  some people recommend dynamic stretching.. maybe some high knees, lunges, etc. 

expect the legs to be a bit sore for a couple weeks while they acclimate to being used again. ankles, hips, knees might be a bit sore but don't let that scare you. listen to your body if things get worse, pain gets sharper. for sure make sure you have a solid pair of shoes under you and don't over do it even if you feel great on a given day.

Congrats on getting going @lombardi. Those pains are pretty common.. i felt them when I was started, though mine felt more like burning. Regardless... it's good you guys recognize you're starting cold. After week 2 you might benefit from doing each day twice, or something along those lines, as you will see your mileage and run/walk ratios begin climbing pretty quickly and we don't want you guys getting frustrated.

Stay the course and it WILL work over the long haul. I'm still relatively new (finishing a 5k is a challenge for me) but I there was a point where it just "clicked" and I fell in love with running. I'm confident you guys will hit that point too if you stick with it. thumbup:

Ned said:

Are you two warming up before heading out?

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We are warming up.  The C25 plan has you walking 5min before and after your walk/jog intervals.

mr. furley said:

do a little walking before you start that day's run.  5 minutes does it for me. just enough to wake everything up.  some people recommend dynamic stretching.. maybe some high knees, lunges, etc. 

...for sure make sure you have a solid pair of shoes under you and don't over do it even if you feel great on a given day.

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I'll have to google dynamic stretching and read a bit more about it.

We do have good shoes.  They feel great BTW, no blisters or foot issues.  I actually want to wear these things all day but I'm keeping them strictly for our runs.

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... it's good you guys recognize you're starting cold. After week 2 you might benefit from doing each day twice, or something along those lines, as you will see your mileage and run/walk ratios begin climbing pretty quickly and we don't want you guys getting frustrated.

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As for ramping up, my wife and I have agreed that we're doing this together.  We move to the next week when the week we're on doesn't feel like it's killing us . Right now I think we're doing well enough to jump up next week.  If either of us struggle or have trouble finishing that last day of the week then we're just going to repeat that week.  Our mantra is take it slow but with absolute consistency.

Thanks for the info and all the great encouragement.

Hang 10 said:

IDK...part of me thinks I should just try to do what I did last year because it worked out pretty well but the other part thinks I can put my time to better use by maximizing my overall fitness. Decisions...decisions...

18 week or 12 week? Is it better to start the schedule 18 weeks out or build the first 6 weeks at your own pace? Not sure I'll be ready to be follow some rigid plan in a month. 

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It's such a personal thing at this level, but all things created equal I fall back to the tried and true 'volume is king'.  We all know you enough to know you're super fit as it is, so I think you're 12 weeks is probably enough, assuming you keep your volume relatively up over the summer.

Finished May with 122 miles. My prior high had been 95 in March so this was a big jump for me. I think the key has been getting my runs in consistently in the morning. Instead of squeezing in a few miles after the kids go down it's been easy (relatively) to get a full hour in the morning before everyone is up. After my race this weekend I'm going to take a week or two off to let some aches and pains mend and then spin back up for a fall race or two.