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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (9 Viewers)
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
@gianmarco, it occurs to me: We're a bunch of boys who love to run around a lot ..and then brag about it. We like to swim and ride bikes. We really enjoy running around in the woods and climbing mountains. We can fussy about what we eat. We're fascinated with boobies, and we can never get enough poop stories, which we think are hilarious. As a kid doc, you're in the perfect place.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
Hmmmm. My Hanson's plan has me running 12 miles with 10 at GMP exactly 10 days before the race. I'm guessing 14 and 14 is doable and won't be bad. I wouldn't go higher than 14 though.
You need to start to let your body (joints, muscles, tendons, etc) start to fully heal. That takes time. If they aren't fully healed, you'll not be at optimal performance on race day.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
With your increased mileage, you should start to see some gains. That being said, I haven't looked closely at your workouts but I think to effectively run a HM, you need to have some speed workouts, at pace workouts and easy workouts as a part of your training plan each and every week.Some fun with numbers this morning. Been thinking about how to pace this 1/2 next Saturday, since my fitness is about as good as I can be right now considering my body hates me now. I ran this same race at 1:55:59 last spring with little training. So here is my mileage last year:
January: 50.16 miles
February: 34.87 miles
March: 65.93 miles
So far this year:
January: 75.23 miles
February: 85.09 miles
March: 95.99 miles
So then I compared a long run from the same period last year versus this year. I ran that 13 mile run this last weekend, and looking back I ran that exact run almost the exact same weekend as last year. (so a GREAT comparison)
Last year: 13.1 miles. 9:37 pace. 166 HR
This year: 13.1 miles. 9.36 pace. 166 HR
Couldn't believe it. So I feel pretty good I can run a 1:55 or so for this race. Which is probably my goal, which would help wipe the bad taste out of my mouth from that fall race. So I then looked at all of my 1/2 marathons where I had HR data to see what my effort was on race day.
April 2015: 8:29 pace. 174 HR. 1:51:20
April 2016: 8:09 pace. 174 HR. 1:46:55
April 2017: 8:51 pace. 172 HR. 1:56:00
October 2017: 9:32 pace. 168 HR. 2:06:40 (was completely wiped this race if you recall)
So I feel comfortable running this race in the 170-175 HR zone. My last few long runs have felt strong - meaning I'm not feeling completely wiped at the end. So I figure if my nutrition is good and weather cooperates, I should be good.
I also now know that this really is probably my last half I'll run.One of the disheartening things is even with increased mileage this year and actually "feeling better", it seems I can't get over the hump to start approaching some faster times. And for me, I don't want to run a 1/2 just to do it. If I can't see real gains then I think my time with distance running is over.
I know the only real way to see gains again is by mileage. And I've learned I can't push my body too hard or it makes me pay. I can run 4 days a week and still feel somewhat normal. I supposed I could try and maximize those four days with volume, and that may be something worth looking into.
Or, I just start exploring the trail thing and see what happens.
So, since in my mind since this is my last half, I'm thinking of trying to pace this thing a little more aggressively. If I remember from my last race report in April last year, I believe there were a few more minutes left on the course. So I'm thinking of shooting for an 8:30 pace, but keeping an eye on my HR throughout - at least the first part of the race - and use 175 as my target HR.
I think I can get there, and at this point I'd rather go in with the mentality of: "fook it - don't leave any time out there."
You make a comment that maybe you aren't a distance guy. I'll just say that I just ran a 1:31 HM a couple weeks ago. I don't think I could run a 1:50 HM running 50-75 miles a month. I say this to tell you, I don't think you are doing badly. You definitely have some speed in you. I'll bet if you have an effective training cycle for a specific HM, you would be surprised at how fast you can become.
You need to recognize I ran the 1:31 HM while running 285 miles last month. Volume is king in running. Its impossible to compare the times that some people put up ( @Juxtatarot, @Hang 10, @pbm107 ) without looking at the number of miles they run.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Do you guys think this is a reasonable training plan for me at this point? I know it's for advanced runners which I'm not, but I like the mileage totals and workouts. I figure as a base plan and covering 12 weeks, it'll cover April/May/June. During that time I've got the trail relay early June and a 5k later in June.
At that point I can then do a 12 week HM program for the race in October.
Thoughts? Any tweaks to it? If anything, I might add an actual rest day and double up on one day/week.
At that point I can then do a 12 week HM program for the race in October.
Thoughts? Any tweaks to it? If anything, I might add an actual rest day and double up on one day/week.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
I think you can do this plan based on what I've seen. The key is picking the right pace so your body doesn't get hurt. If you pick a pace too fast, you'll start to break down. A pace too slow, and you'll be bored and not seeing the gains you want. Also,
Two things to really stress on this plan (which most people overlook). 1. Rest. You need to take advantage of those rest days and easy days. The body MUST have time to recover. 2. Stretch. I have been far more diligent about stretching and its paying off for me. I haven't had to go to PT at all. I've been able to stretch out all my kinks. Don't overlook the importance of stretching.
Look forward to seeing how this plan works for you!
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
I think 20 2 weeks before is really pushing it unless you are a huge mileage guy (100+ miles a week).
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think Higdon does a better job with this than the others so you may not need it, but do not hesitate to call an audible when/if your body asks for a step back week. If you're going to bail on one of his workouts pick one (or both) during the week. They're designed to be difficult weekends. If you don't get to the weekend ready to rock you won't experience the full benefits.
I'm a big fan of doubles, but being new to actual training one word of caution - stay focused on run #2. I'm guessing they will be recovery's and while pace is not important - form is. I have seen you doing doubles (and more?) already, but it's different once amidst training. Just something to be aware of.
ChiefD
Footballguy
For me, I'd avoid the doubles and make sure you take a rest day every week. Maybe on Friday. That plan has something going on every day, where typically you have run anywhere from 3-5 days a week.
And then you are really going to get serious getting into a 12 week HM plan right after.
If it's me (and others are way better at this than me) I'd modify that plan a bit and try to have a longer slower run during the week (like maybe a 6-8 miler). Slow mileage right now will benefit you long term. And with the combo of that speed work you will be dynamite once your formal HM training starts.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Well, the reason for the doubles is to get ready for the trail relay in less than 2 months. I'm going to have to run hard, rest < 3 hours, run hard, and then do it once more. So, doing one double/week over the next 2 months will hopefully at least get me a little used to going back out there for multiple runs in a day. That also then allows me to take a full rest day each week was my thought.
This will be my first time doing actual organized speed work and following an actual plan. We'll see how it goes and if I can even stick with it.
ChiefD
Footballguy
jabarony
Footballguy
Thank you all.
I'll see what i can do about getting in a long run on Thursday. Weekdays are usually tough. But considering Thursday will have the best weather all week (43F and partly cloudy!!!!), I'll try and make it happen.
I'm not looking for fitness gains at this point. Probably tok late for that anyways. I just want my energy meter as full as possible gping in. I'm going to finish that race even if i have to moonwalk that 13th mile.
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
A good saying to remember, @jabarony, is that it's better to be 100% healthy and 80% trained vs. 100% trained and 80% healthy. Take the fitness that you've got and run the race based on that! Maybe plan a good mantra or two or three to carry you through the final few miles. Let the mind carry you when the body can't.
gianmarco
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Eh, I've been hooked for a good bit now. We'll see how following an actual training plan goes, but even if I can't stick to it and never get much faster, I'm ok with that because I love where I am and what I've been able to do. It's funny that I've been asked a couple times over last few months if I'm a runner and I've always hesitated to answer "yes"....I'd just answer with "Well, I run some but I just started a little bit ago" or something along those lines. But, I finally feel like I can just say "yes" to that question. It's strange, but it's something that I just do now and who I am. And it doesn't feel right if I've gone more than a couple days without getting out.ChiefD said:
Similarly, now I look forward to running in places I visit. Or running new routes. Or trying new shoes. Or anything like that. Either way, I know how good it is for me and I enjoy it so I don't plan on ever really stopping until there's a good reason that I can't. The fun thing is that my wife has gotten a renewed interest in getting faster which helps push me. And I finally don't have to convince her anymore that we need to run more and run slowly to get better. In fact, she was just saying yesterday when we were looking over training plans how she's bummed that she wasn't told to do that when she was younger and ran track as she was like "man, I could have been much faster at the mile if I didn't always just work on speed". And she's probably right. So, seeing her get excited for it again and noticing gains she hasn't seen in a long time is super rewarding for me. You guys have all helped with that by beating that into me.
With the winter, I just haven't run enough and I've been running too much in the middle area. So my focus with this plan is making sure I take the slow runs slow as pointed out above and trying to stick with it. The speed work is also going to be new for me and I'm sure is going to be a challenge. Those hill repeats today kicked my ###. I'm tired and it wasn't a long workout. That's another reason why I picked this one because it does have something every day. Doing those 3+ weeks in a row showed me I can do it and I can do it without getting hurt or tired if I'm smart about it. These next 3 months are great because I don't have any travel or any things that should interfere with sticking to it. So....I've got new shoes, spring weather, and 2 races to work toward in 2 months has me ready to see if I can take another step. Should be fun......
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bushdocda
Footballguy
I like you getting on plan and the double idea will pay off phyically/mentally/prep-wise even a couple times leading up. Manage the frequency if it gets too much (rest when you need it) and keep the easy miles easy as prescribed and you’ll be seeing solid improvements.gianmarco said:
jabarony
Footballguy
I have Strava (sex club advertisements and all!) on my phone if that's what you mean.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Did you join the Strava group here?
And no, I meant do you have tracking info for your half marathon. Lots of races provide real-time updates using the chip for your time. If they do and you want to share, you'll have people here follow along and cheer you on. And knowing that is here can be great motivation as well.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Beyond the recovery issue @gruecd cited, everything I've read indicates you probably won't realize those benefits anyway. Shorter/faster workouts provide benefits within 10 days or so, but the long ones usually take longer.SteelCurtain said:
Given where I am right now and my main goal later this month I'm going to walk back the 14 GMP. Juice vs squeeze. I'll either do 10-12 this weekend or 7-8 middle of next week. Hopefully I'm recovered enough to do it this weekend because I like the GMP/Tempo combo option better than intervals/mini GMP.
pbm107
Footballguy
Have you considered running a tuneup race this weekend? I like the idea of racing a 10K 2-3 weeks out. I am looking forward to seeing what you can do on race day.
sports_fan
Footballguy
Does anyone wear a heart rate monitor that you'd recommend? I'm looking for one with a chest strap and around $100 or less. This wouldn't be strictly for running more general exercise at home and gym. Here's one I was considering: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WLKH81G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A207G8FGT0Y15F&psc=1
MAC_32
Footballguy
Yes, but then my wife signed up for one before I mentioned it
Probably for the best anyway - I seem to take longer than most to recover from max effort runs and even if I went into it telling myself to keep it sub 90% that'd change to empty the tank once the gun goes off. I think it was @Hang 10 that floated it out there, but I like the idea of finding a shorter race about a month after the marathon. Take advantage of the shape I'm in but without that giant marathon matzah ball hanging out in the back of my head.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Haven't used that one but Polar pretty much invented hr monitors and is still considered one of the standards, so that's probably a good one.
Zasada
Footballguy
I'm currently using the Wahoo TickrX. Prior to this I used the base Tickr model but when I started more treadmill workouts I needed the TickrX (which has a cadence sensor) to be able to upload those workouts to Strava. I've been really happy with both for tracking HR. The Android watch I have also tracks HR but is garbage unless I wear it really tight. And even then if I get above 150 it loses track. So I stick with the chest strap.
The TickrX can record data on its own and then upload to your phone or it can also just link to your phone realtime and record data that way.
sports_fan
Footballguy
sports_fan
Footballguy
That's definitely close to what I'm looking for. I don't have a smart watch and I would need to pair it with my phone if I go with one that doesn't include a watch. I'm mostly just wanting to measure my heart rate while I'm working out to track effort/intensity of my workouts. Extra features would be good but not necessarily really a strong selling point for my first one.
JAA
Footballguy
Do you have any wearable currently? What do you want to do with the info? Just see it? Store it? TSS/IF/CTL?
sports_fan
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
Im the same way ... its really hard to not go all out in a race.Yes, but then my wife signed up for one before I mentioned it
JAA
Footballguy
sports_fan
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
Friend got this one: https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-vívoactive-Smart-Watch-Regular/dp/B01BKUB6BA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1522852111&sr=8-3&keywords=vivoactive+HR
He likes it a lot. Ive run with him and it works for his output which is around 10 miles per week.
BIL got this one: https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Forerunner-235-Black-010-03717-54/dp/B0160BC1FO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1522852258&sr=8-3&keywords=forerunner+235
He loves it. He runs/bikes a good bit. No regrets either.
Both of those watches will upload to Garmin Connect, Strava, Training Peaks, etc. If you are not sure how much you will get into it, I would go with the Vivoactive. If you would like to do your own research, DC Rainmaker is the "be all end all" of wearables: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/
sports_fan
Footballguy
Thanks for the links. I'm hesitant to get one without a chest strap but I'm sure some of the better watches will provide accurate measurements without it. Maybe this wasn't the best thread for my question but I didn't know where else to ask. To clarify though I only run semi-regularly. I have nerve damage in my leg which makes it difficult to do too often. I would mostly be using this while I'm working out at home or in the gym.
JAA
Footballguy
I use a chest strap. I have this setup: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012J1DVH6/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
That setup is not what you are looking for.
That said, if I went back in time and decided I only wanted to run semi-regularyl, I would get one of those 2 watches. Thats because they are geared to HR. My buddy hasnt had any issue with his unit and loves using it. He wears it all the time. It will also show his HR over the past X hours.
With the strap its work. I need to clean mine regularly. I need to replace batteries regularly. I think it would be much simpler with the watch by itself.
Good luck with whatever you choose. IM(biased)O I would go with Garmin over Polar. With the research that I did, Garmin customer service is way beyond Polar. As an example, the strap broke on my HRM-Swim. I ask Garmin customer service about what my warranty options were. They just asked for my address and shipped me a new one. Yes ... I am a Garmin fanboy. I even bought their stock because of how great of a brand and company they maintain (still up 20%!)
Good luck with whatever you choose.
gruecd
Footballguy
OK, so I just don't have the motivation to write a full-blown race report, so here are some random post-race thoughts/musings:
- At 3:06:29, this was the 4th-fastest of my 29 marathons after Milwaukee Lakefront 2011 (2:59:48), Erie 2014 (3:03:49), and Chicago 2009 (3:06:10).
- It was by far my biggest negative split in a marathon (2 min 29 secs)
- Pre-race pancakes really hit the spot
- Carmel is a great course for anyone looking for an early spring BQ race. Only 295 feet of elevation gain per my Garmin, and 22.5% of runners BQ'd.
- That being said, the water on the course was DISGUSTING. I'm glad it was nice and cool so I didn't have to drink too much.
- Needed to use the bathroom about 20 minutes before the starting gun, and porta-potty lines were hella long, so I jogged up a course a little ways and found a coffee shop with a nice, warm bathroom with no line. Heaven.
- Unfortunately, still felt like I was going to #### my pants pretty much the entire race starting around mile 2-3. It would come and go, but eventually it got to the point that if I stopped I wasn't sure I'd be able to get going again, so I just gutted it out. Literally.
- Ran with the 1:35 half marathon pacer for the first 8 miles or so. Guy was a metronome, and it was nice being able to zone out and just run for a while.
- My buddy and I ran side-by-side for the first 10-11 miles, but slowly he started to fall a few steps behind me. I'd slow down a tad and he'd catch up, but then he'd fall back again. Ended up dropping him around mile 19.
- Might have been my best-executed marathon ever. Averaged 7:12 through the first 20 miles and 6:53 for the last 10K. I was obviously tired the last couple of miles, but I honestly never "hit the wall."
- Saw my wife (and my buddy's wife and kids) three times on the course. It was really nice being able to look forward to that.
- Felt really cool picking guys off the last 10K. I wish I could see how many places I moved up between mile 20 and the finish.
- I'm recovering super quickly, and I'm going to pace 3:40 at the Oshkosh Marathon on April 29.
- Definitely left some time on the course, but I'm 100% OK with that.
- When you registered, you entered your anticipated finishing time, and they attached removable pace bands to everyone's bib. Really nice touch.
- Highway 65 sucks balls to drive on.
- As much as I respect walkers for getting out there and being active, they need to learn how to get the #### out of the way and not walk 3 abreast.
- Related, if you're going to walk (or stop dead) at a water station, get off to the side first.
- Next up, Fall 50 relay in October (hoping to win) and California International Marathon in December. Between now and then, I'm thinking to run 40-45 mpw with a weekly long run between 10-15 miles.
- The race didn't have a lot of turns, and I obviously ran those few tangents pretty effectively, because the distance on my Garmin measured 26.25.
- ETA my wife ran the 5K in 27:00.
Huge PR for her. She has the mental toughness that simply can't be taught.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
These two crack me up. You completely kicked ### having to sheeeeit your pants the whole time AND slowing down for your buddy.
Nice work.
sports_fan
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
FYPLook at me, I'm just going to slow down for my buddy and have to #### for 26 miles and still run my 4th fastest marathon while seeing my family and oh yeah i didn't even drink a lot of water.
Nice work.
JShare87
Footballguy
I think I am seeing the results of this. I am pretty sure this is the fittest I have ever been. My aerobic runs (HR under 153) are starting to creep around the low 7:00s. I think I broke through a nice plateau and as Grue mentioned, I am recovering nicely after my marathon. I think I did exactly what I wanted, treat it as more of a 26.2 mile long run. I have a race 4 straight weekends in a row (5K, 16K, 5K, 7 mile trail run, now I know how OS feels), and I am expecting some PRs. We’ll see!Yes, but then my wife signed up for one before I mentioned it
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pbm107
Footballguy
Heads up for everyone that uses the garmin progress summary reports (I think @Hang 10 did), they changed the format which is slightly annoying. The real annoying part is that the reports are no longer accurate. It looks like I'll have to generate my own reports from my individual activities.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
I've always used this as my "official" training volumes as well. What are you seeing that is no longer accurate?
It does look like I can only see 16 months at a time though (grouped by month)? And the UX is terrible (setting the dates, for example).
ETA, actually looks like my issue was the lack of grouping for type of activity - there's no "running" category that captures the sub-categories, and it looks like different watches I've had have logged the activities differently. Annoying.
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pbm107
Footballguy
The average HR is no longer calculated correctly, after I saw that I gave up on the rest of the report so I am not sure what else is inaccurate.
pbm107
Footballguy
I had a chance to look at it again it and they are equally weighing each activity regardless of duration in their average calculation, so if you have a 30 minute run at 130 HR and 90 minute run at 140 HR the progress summary report will now show an average HR of 135 instead of 137.5.
The rest of the fields that aren't averages look fine.
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gruecd
Footballguy
Marathon recovery is going great. Even played pickup basketball at lunch today!
I honestly didn't feel any worse post-marathon than I did after any of my fast-finish long training runs. After taking a rest day on Sunday, I've run 5-6-5-7 so far this week, and I feel pretty normal (whatever that means).
I'm pacing 3:40 in Oshkosh on the 29th and 1:45 at the Fox Cities half marathon in September. I'll start a 13-week training program for CIM after Labor Day, and I've got the Fall 50 relay in October. In the meantime, I think I'm gonna try to start a running streak of at least 5 miles per day and see how long I can keep it going. Hoping for 45-50 miles per week through the summer.
I honestly didn't feel any worse post-marathon than I did after any of my fast-finish long training runs. After taking a rest day on Sunday, I've run 5-6-5-7 so far this week, and I feel pretty normal (whatever that means).
I'm pacing 3:40 in Oshkosh on the 29th and 1:45 at the Fox Cities half marathon in September. I'll start a 13-week training program for CIM after Labor Day, and I've got the Fall 50 relay in October. In the meantime, I think I'm gonna try to start a running streak of at least 5 miles per day and see how long I can keep it going. Hoping for 45-50 miles per week through the summer.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Brony
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
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