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Ran a 10k - Official Thread

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12 minutes ago, Zasada said:

I have a "Strength Interval" training run next Tuesday which calls for 6x1.5km (~1mi) at MP-10.  

10 seconds off a mile equates to about 7 seconds off a KM.  There is no way I can run that precisely.  Best I can differentiate between generally is around 20 seconds/km (30 seconds/mile).  Maybe I can be this precise on the treadmill, but with the prescribed 3km WU and 3km CD, that's 18km (~11mi).  And anything over 10km on the treadmill makes me go insane.  

Can anyone run this precisely by feel or with a watch?   My watch isn't even that precise.  It'll bounce around +/- 10sec/km just from random variation...

It's almost impossible for me to dial it in when running in my neighborhood. There are so many hills that I can't really maintain an even pace. For me, I've pretty much run these based on feel at this point.

I'll hammer the downhills and then back off some on the uphills. I use my heart rate monitor as a guide if I'm working too hard on one or the other. 

 

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Just now, Zasada said:

Yeah on long runs I can manage this but when a run calls for segments as short as 1.5km at a given pace, followed by a 500m jog, the averages don't help too much.  By the time I get my first km of feedback, I'm almost done that segment.  

I'm suggesting checking the field routinely during the segment.  If you have auto lap set for every km, for example, start checking at maybe a 1/3 of the way through the KM to see if you're averaging too fast or too slow.  Keep doing this, like, every 1/10 of a KM and you should hit the end of KM right near goal pace.  

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29 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I think I'm in the minority, but in the long run I think you'd be best off trying to figure it out without the assistance of technology.  You'll screw them up on occasion, going both ways, but those are just learning experiences.  Don't spend your time and energy worrying about a device mid-workout, spend it focusing on the actual workout then let the data and your body tell the story afterwards.

this works for me as i have basically every mileage that i've run before mapped out mentally. having previously run box routes or out & backs comes in handy on days when the watch is dead, i've forgotten it or just didn't want to wear one.

Friday i've got an 8 mile run scheduled. it's going to finally crack 30 (edit: degrees) so i just kind of want to meander and enjoy the warmth. won't be wearing a watch but instead will run the 8 mile route i know and if i'm feeling good, at the normal turn-back-home point i'll just keep going.

Edited by mr. furley
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20 minutes ago, Zasada said:

Yeah on long runs I can manage this but when a run calls for segments as short as 1.5km at a given pace, followed by a 500m jog, the averages don't help too much.  By the time I get my first km of feedback, I'm almost done that segment.  

Also I'm not sure why my run is calling for intervals at (basically) MP.  I could do the whole run at MP-10 easily without requiring mid-run jogs.  :shrug:

I'll just continue to trust the plan and do what it tells me, I guess!

I think you have a Garmin.

You can actually program workouts into the watch prior to doing it. You can set a desired distance and pace and it will help you. For the pace, you can set a range (however wide you want). If you are slow or fast, it will buzz and alert you. 

But, as @MAC_32 said, if you get to the point where you can do it by feel, then your confidence in pacing will grow. Then if you have any issues, especially on race day, you aren't sunk.

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On 3/5/2019 at 8:40 AM, gianmarco said:

This happens on almost every travel I take. And, it usually goes away after a few days. It's almost certainly temporary and will return to normal soon.

You nailed it.  Ate super clean yesterday, drank a ton of water (well over 100 oz), and got a good night's sleep, and this morning I was down from 209 to 204.  Crazy that I could fluctuate 5 pounds from one day to the next, but a lot of it was probably water weight.  Want to race at 200-202.

Edited by gruecd
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3 minutes ago, gruecd said:

You nailed it.  Ate super clean yesterday, drank a ton of water (well over 100 oz), and got a good night's sleep, and this morning I was down from 209 to 204.  Crazy that I could fluctuate 5 pounds from one day to the next, but a lot of it was probably water weight.  Want to race at 200-202.

Speaking of which, I'm finally down to under 205 (was 203 a couple days ago) and hope to get back under 200 in the next couple weeks.  That extra weight SUCKS.  And I can't believe I was regularly even heavier than that for so long.

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7 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Speaking of which, I'm finally down to under 205 (was 203 a couple days ago) and hope to get back under 200 in the next couple weeks.  That extra weight SUCKS.  And I can't believe I was regularly even heavier than that for so long.

Go get yourself a couple of new custom-tailored suits.  The money you'll spend is excellent motivation to keep your ### in shape!

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Just now, gruecd said:

Go get yourself a couple of new custom-tailored gorilla suits.  The money you'll spend is excellent motivation to keep your ### in shape!

Fixed for accuracy

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1 minute ago, gruecd said:

Go get yourself a couple of new custom-tailored suits.  The money you'll spend is excellent motivation to keep your ### in shape!

1.  Different line of work  =  No need for suits  :)

2.  I held my weight at the same spot for over 1 1/2 years.  The 10 lb weight gain was a bad combination of injury (no running for 3 weeks and no lifting from shoulder inflammation), travel, and Thanksgiving.  Just like I'm getting it back down to 200, I have no concerns about maintaining it.  If anything, I'm going to try and get it even lower and aim for 190ish.

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1 hour ago, Zasada said:

I have a "Strength Interval" training run next Tuesday which calls for 6x1.5km (~1mi) at MP-10.  

10 seconds off a mile equates to about 7 seconds off a KM.  There is no way I can run that precisely.  Best I can differentiate between generally is around 20 seconds/km (30 seconds/mile).  Maybe I can be this precise on the treadmill, but with the prescribed 3km WU and 3km CD, that's 18km (~11mi).  And anything over 10km on the treadmill makes me go insane.  

Can anyone run this precisely by feel or with a watch?   My watch isn't even that precise.  It'll bounce around +/- 10sec/km just from random variation...

Can you program up the workout and include pace range indicators?  This worked wonders for me last year and I programmed each speed, strength, tempo SOS with a pace range that I was able to get tighter/less variability as I progressed.  Just as helpful for telling you when you’re too fast as it is for when you’re too slow. 

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33 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

I think you have a Garmin.

You can actually program workouts into the watch prior to doing it. You can set a desired distance and pace and it will help you. For the pace, you can set a range (however wide you want). If you are slow or fast, it will buzz and alert you. 

But, as @MAC_32 said, if you get to the point where you can do it by feel, then your confidence in pacing will grow. Then if you have any issues, especially on race day, you aren't sunk.

Yeah this. I should read. 

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2 hours ago, Zasada said:

Yeah on long runs I can manage this but when a run calls for segments as short as 1.5km at a given pace, followed by a 500m jog, the averages don't help too much.  By the time I get my first km of feedback, I'm almost done that segment.  

Also I'm not sure why my run is calling for intervals at (basically) MP.  I could do the whole run at MP-10 easily without requiring mid-run jogs.  :shrug:

I'll just continue to trust the plan and do what it tells me, I guess!

I assume you are following Hansons.  I don't know your marathon history or training past, however, if these runs are all easy, then you may be training a bit slow.  What week of training are you in?  Weeks 9 through 15 (of 18) is where Hansons gets really tough. 

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Anyone have any effective go to IT band stretches I can do in my office?  Its tight and I have a hard run after work. 

 

My foam roller is at my house so not an option.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, SteelCurtain said:

Anyone have any effective go to IT band stretches I can do in my office?  Its tight and I have a hard run after work. 

 

My foam roller is at my house so not an option.

 

 

My secretary does mine. :yes:

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24 minutes ago, SteelCurtain said:

Anyone have any effective go to IT band stretches I can do in my office?  Its tight and I have a hard run after work. 

 

My foam roller is at my house so not an option.

 

 

Something like this seated stretch but I usually do a forward lean too to get into the glute also

https://youtu.be/9bPutn1Yhso

good luck

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4 hours ago, Zasada said:

Also I'm not sure why my run is calling for intervals at (basically) MP.  I could do the whole run at MP-10 easily without requiring mid-run jogs.  :shrug:

I'll just continue to trust the plan and do what it tells me, I guess!

Are you through the speed weeks already or does the custom plan include strength runs earlier?  To echo Steel, it could be your goal pace may be able to be adjusted faster.  I did not find the strength SOS runs as hard as the tempo and speed ones. I sometimes got faster than the target paces on them. If you’re recovering and nailing the tempo workouts, I think adjusting faster is something to consider. If the tempo runs suffer than adjust back. 

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3 hours ago, SteelCurtain said:

I assume you are following Hansons.  I don't know your marathon history or training past, however, if these runs are all easy, then you may be training a bit slow.  What week of training are you in?  Weeks 9 through 15 (of 18) is where Hansons gets really tough. 

Yeah, I'm using a custom Luke Humphrey Running plan, which, as I understand it, is basically Hanson's tailored to me.  Week 4 of 15.

When I look at his running pace converter and input my goal marathon time (3:57:36) I get paces that are incredibly slow and easy for me.  

I saw in a message you posted a while back that when using Hanson's you train at a faster pace than your true MP target so I decided to input 3:45 as my goal marathon time and that gave me paces which are at least somewhere in the realm of reasonable for me.  I do all my easy runs at 5:50-6:00/km (9:22-9:40/mi), which is still faster than "easy" and just barely faster than the "moderate" pace on the above converter using 3:45 as my marathon goal.

MP (5:19/km, 8:33/mi) runs are cake for me right now because they're so short (3km WU + 12km MP + 3km CD) at this point of the plan.  I'm just hoping that as I get deeper into the plan things get harder.  

For the easy runs, I figure Hanson's is trying to keep me in my aerobic/fat-burning zone so I watch my HR and try to stay around 135 (MAF formula of 180-age).  So even though they're slow and easy, I assume I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing by training my body to burn fat.  Any slower and I'd be in the 120s and I assume that's not the intent of the easy run.

So I guess I'm writing all of that to say that MP-10 is really no different than MP for me at this point in the plan.  I could actually do the runs at MP-30 if I wanted to.  But I'm trusting that there's a reason for me to be running this slow all the time.

I see next week my Wednesday run (usually Fartlek/Strength/Speed) increases from about an hour of running to just under two hours.  Maybe that's when things start to get harder for me.  

1 hour ago, bushdocda said:

Are you through the speed weeks already or does the custom plan include strength runs earlier?  To echo Steel, it could be your goal pace may be able to be adjusted faster.  I did not find the strength SOS runs as hard as the tempo and speed ones. I sometimes got faster than the target paces on them. If you’re recovering and nailing the tempo workouts, I think adjusting faster is something to consider. If the tempo runs suffer than adjust back. 

The first four weeks had intervals/Fartlek runs on Wednesdays.  I ran the fast intervals at a pace (4:39/km, 7:29/mi) which was definitely work for me.  Today was two groups of 2/3/4 minutes and those 4 minute versions had me feeling it.

Next week the Fartlek changes to Strength.  The intervals are slower but longer in time/distance.  Like I posted before, they're going to be pretty easy since I could do the whole run at MP-10, let alone 6x1.5km with jogging breaks in-between.

My first "Speed" run is in 4 weeks from now, which interestingly calls for the same pace as my current Fartlek (admittedly I chose to run the Fartlek at a 10K pace when it called for "10K to HM pace").

If there is a way to share a plan on Final Surge, I'll do that so you guys can see the whole thing if you like.

 

Edited by Zasada

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32 minutes ago, Zasada said:

So I guess I'm writing all of that to say that MP-10 is really no different than MP for me at this point in the plan.  I could actually do the runs at MP-30 if I wanted to.  But I'm trusting that there's a reason for me to be running this slow all the time.

I think this is a good sign you aren’t even approaching your ceiling as runner and you have much faster marathons coming in future training cycles.   I would love to see you race a 5K to see how fast you are.

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4 minutes ago, pbm107 said:

I think this is a good sign you aren’t even approaching your ceiling as runner and you have much faster marathons coming in future training cycles.   I would love to see you race a 5K to see how fast you are.

If only someone else suggested that... :whistle:

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I think I mentioned before that I thought he could be sub 3:30 within a marathon or two.  Being 6'6", 160 lbs (or whatever) helps.  But I think he is being pulled away from the streets into the mountains and trails and stuff.

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1 hour ago, pbm107 said:

I think this is a good sign you aren’t even approaching your ceiling as runner and you have much faster marathons coming in future training cycles.   I would love to see you race a 5K to see how fast you are.

Got a 10K in 10 days.  One thing I have noticed is that running distances at my MP is getting easier but speed is getting harder.  Probably because I'm not running like I was before Houston.  Back then I would run as fast as "comfortable" and now I do almost none of that.  I ran my fastest (estimated) 10K ever (4:49/km, 7:45/mi) in early January (at the peak of my training cycle) and I'm not sure I could do the same now, given how hard that pace is when I run it during my Fartleks.

It will be interesting to see what happens when I go out and try to run fast for the first time in over two months.  

In that vein, I'm considering adding a "fast" run on Friday (normally a rest day for me) just to test this before my race.  I don't want to overdo things before Hanson's really ramps-up in difficulty, but I would also like to test my capability before the race.

Edited by Zasada
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35 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

I think I mentioned before that I thought he could be sub 3:30 within a marathon or two.  Being 6'6", 160 lbs (or whatever) helps.  But I think he is being pulled away from the streets into the mountains and trails and stuff.

Silence, foul temptress!  I love the quantifiable improvement/measurement that running standardized street races/marathons brings, and statements like the above press exactly that button.  But that's about all I like about street running.  So while that one, massive draw could pull me back in, the plan is to run Calgary and then potentially drop street running for the rest of the year, if not more.  Except when it is the only option available to get out.

Instead I'm going to play the role of @SFBayDuck's dog and have him tow me all over the mountains and hills.  Every day.  And I'll promise to keep the crotch-sniffing to a minimum.

Edited by Zasada
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9 hours ago, bushdocda said:

When your (insert body part) feels ‘better’ bc another body part is now talking to you. 

Are we still talking about running?

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5 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Are we still talking about running?

This always happens to me. 

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8 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Speaking of which, I'm finally down to under 205 (was 203 a couple days ago) and hope to get back under 200 in the next couple weeks.  That extra weight SUCKS.  And I can't believe I was regularly even heavier than that for so long.

I weighed myself at the club last night and found I'm at about 171.  I've been running (no pun intended) about 5 pounds more, which is my standard (6'3", 175).  Not sure if it's the result of the very steady routine this calendar year of hitting 30+ miles per week or the effect of the pinched nerve/whatever some weeks ago.  The latter noticeably sapped shoulder/arm strength.  Not a big deal, but it's usually marathon training that pulls my weight down to scrawny levels.

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11 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

The secret is using an average pace field on a watch.  You're right that there is random variation in real time but it starts getting pretty accurate as an average over distance.  A lot of us set up auto lap every mile and focus on average lap pace.  I don't worry about it much in the first few tenths of a mile as that will be somewhat inaccurate anyway but after that I know if I should speed up a little or can slow down a little depending on what the average has been.  You can hit goal paces pretty accurately this way.

I setup a lap for every half mile. I find it helps keep me more focused

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Bunch of skinny ####s in here. I got too much “skeletal mass” or whatever you want to call fat poeple like me at 5’8 and 162

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3 hours ago, Zasada said:

Silence, foul temptress!  I love the quantifiable improvement/measurement that running standardized street races/marathons brings, and statements like the above press exactly that button.  But that's about all I like about street running.  So while that one, massive draw could pull me back in, the plan is to run Calgary and then potentially drop street running for the rest of the year, if not more.  Except when it is the only option available to get out.

Instead I'm going to play the role of @SFBayDuck's dog and have him tow me all over the mountains and hills.  Every day.  And I'll promise to keep the crotch-sniffing to a minimum.

Except the dog is usually pulling me around the mountains.  He's part Husky, after all. 

Wonder if there is a 100 miler that allows dogs as pacers.......besides the Iditarod, I mean. 

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On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 8:37 AM, Zasada said:

I have a "Strength Interval" training run next Tuesday which calls for 6x1.5km (~1mi) at MP-10.  

10 seconds off a mile equates to about 7 seconds off a KM.  There is no way I can run that precisely.  Best I can differentiate between generally is around 20 seconds/km (30 seconds/mile).  Maybe I can be this precise on the treadmill, but with the prescribed 3km WU and 3km CD, that's 18km (~11mi).  And anything over 10km on the treadmill makes me go insane.  

Can anyone run this precisely by feel or with a watch?   My watch isn't even that precise.  It'll bounce around +/- 10sec/km just from random variation...

I did something similar this morning (3 x 1.5M at 6:22/6:00/6:22), and not only have I learned to tolerate the treadmill for this kind of workout, but I've actually come to prefer it.  I can just set the pace and grind it out.  That being said, I do think it's important for newer runners to learn proper pacing and how to make those small adjustments during a race, and for that there's really no substitute for running outside (or on a track) with a watch. 

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17 hours ago, JAA said:

I got too much “skeletal mass”

Same :hey:

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Went to ortho this morning for my thumb and knee.  The office I was referred to is Hand and Shoulder experts and I could tell right away that these guys are cutters.  :lmao: So my thumb is suspected CMC synovitis.  He shook things up by getting rid of my Amazon thumb splint to a custom thumb splint from their office.  Now things will really happen!  No surgery  advocated at least. 

Regarding my knee:

Brony: I've started to have some pain when running with my left knee

MD: I don't really specialize in legs.

Brony: Any  thoughts on what might be causing this?

MD:  I can refer you to another physican that might be able to help.

Brony: OK.  By chance, do you know any PT's in the area that specialize in runners or see difficult cases?

MD: No.

useless. 

A little googling on my knee leads me to suspecting a mild LCL sprain.  Ice, rest and stretches in my future.  I'm gonna take at least a week off for now.

Although these things suck, I'm really hoping that this isn't the beginning of osteoarthritis.  The fact that NSAIDs aren't helping me at all gives me some relief, but I still can't help but feel damaged (even though I'm healthy in all other respects) 

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14 minutes ago, Brony said:

A little googling on my knee leads me to suspecting a mild LCL sprain.  Ice, rest and stretches in my future.  I'm gonna take at least a week off for now.

Although these things suck, I'm really hoping that this isn't the beginning of osteoarthritis.  The fact that NSAIDs aren't helping me at all gives me some relief, but I still can't help but feel damaged (even though I'm healthy in all other respects) 

:kicksrock:   You just can't get a break.

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1 hour ago, tri-man 47 said:

:kicksrock:   You just can't get a break.

back to the pool I guess

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Good luck tomorrow @gianmarco!

Looks like you are going to get wet. Here's hoping the storms somehow skirt their way around you and you have some dry conditions. 

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18 hours ago, gruecd said:

I did something similar this morning (3 x 1.5M at 6:22/6:00/6:22), and not only have I learned to tolerate the treadmill for this kind of workout, but I've actually come to prefer it.  I can just set the pace and grind it out.  That being said, I do think it's important for newer runners to learn proper pacing and how to make those small adjustments during a race, and for that there's really no substitute for running outside (or on a track) with a watch. 

Yes, thus far I have been doing all my intervals on the treadmill so that I can be precise on pacing and time.  I just don't know if I can do it for 18K (which will be just short of 2 hours).  As I've said before, my tolerance for the treadmill evaporates at the hour mark and then the rapid descent into insanity begins...

I may not have a choice though.  Forecast for next Tue (my scheduled day for this workout) is snow...

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Just now, Zasada said:

@SFBayDuck, that photo you posted on Strava might be the happiest photo I've ever seen.  

Yep.

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20 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

Good luck tomorrow @gianmarco!

Looks like you are going to get wet. Here's hoping the storms somehow skirt their way around you and you have some dry conditions. 

Yes, good luck, @gianmarco (reminding myself continually now that it's John-Marco and not Gee-ahn-Marco)!

 

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7 minutes ago, Zasada said:

Yes, good luck, @gianmarco (reminding myself continually now that it's John-Marco and not Gee-ahn-Marco)!

 

I thought we settled on Jan. As in Stenerud.

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5 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

I thought we settled on Jan. As in Stenerud.

Oh I like that.  So sophisticated and mysterious.  Changing my mental pronunciation of @gianmarco's name once again...

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I'll just spend most of my 13.1 miles tomorrow thinking of various ways to pronounce my name.

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37 minutes ago, Zasada said:

Yes, thus far I have been doing all my intervals on the treadmill so that I can be precise on pacing and time.  I just don't know if I can do it for 18K (which will be just short of 2 hours).  As I've said before, my tolerance for the treadmill evaporates at the hour mark and then the rapid descent into insanity begins...

I may not have a choice though.  Forecast for next Tue (my scheduled day for this workout) is snow...

I'm probably going to be setting a new treadmill PR tomorrow....20 miles.  I need to hit my paces, and it's going to be windy and cold outside.  And I'm just mentally done with the Pettit right now.

I'll break it down into four (4) 5-mile segments, with a quick break between sets to take a GU, refill my water, and put on a dry shirt.

Edited by gruecd
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2 minutes ago, gruecd said:

I'm probably going to be setting a new treadmill PR tomorrow....20 miles. 

Ugh. I shall pray for you.

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19 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

I thought we settled on Jan. As in Stenerud.

Absolutely.  YOHN.

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1 minute ago, ChiefD said:

Ugh. I shall pray for you.

Much appreciated.

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42 minutes ago, Zasada said:

@SFBayDuck, that photo you posted on Strava might be the happiest photo I've ever seen.  

yeah, that is all sorts of awesome.  

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14 minutes ago, gruecd said:

I'm probably going to be setting a new treadmill PR tomorrow....20 miles.  I need to hit my paces, and it's going to be windy and cold outside.  And I'm just mentally done with the Pettit right now.

I'll break it down into four (4) 5-mile segments, with a quick break between sets to take a GU, refill my water, and put on a dry shirt.

And y'all say I'm crazy.....

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51 minutes ago, Zasada said:

@SFBayDuck, that photo you posted on Strava might be the happiest photo I've ever seen.  

Yeah, it kind of is.

Either that or Summit is running away from the scary leprechauns guarding their pot o' gold.

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16 minutes ago, gruecd said:

I'm probably going to be setting a new treadmill PR tomorrow....20 miles.  I need to hit my paces, and it's going to be windy and cold outside.  And I'm just mentally done with the Pettit right now.

I'll break it down into four (4) 5-mile segments, with a quick break between sets to take a GU, refill my water, and put on a dry shirt.

What paces are the segments?  You're tapering afterwards, right?

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