The only flaw to this is that my prep for this race was miles ahead of what I did for Chicago. I don’t even consider those comparable experiences at this point.It isnt apples to apples but I just cross referenced chief's failure in Chicago vs his success in Indy and his Chicago race sorta followed this approach. It ended badly.
He kept the hr down a few notches over the first half of this race and shaved 25 minutes.
I hesitated to post the sample because I thought you trained better this time. You were able to hold 170 once you got there this time whereas you never even got to it for any real period of time then. But you were into the high 160's quickly whereas you werent consistently there this time until the second half of the race.The only flaw to this is that my prep for this race was miles ahead of what I did for Chicago. I don’t even consider those comparable experiences at this point.
Chicago was a joke. Carmel was me doing it properly.
I have done a piss poor job with weight so far in 2019.February
136 miles ran
7:35 net pace, in these conditions this is extremely encouraging
25 hours of exercise (17.25 hours running, 7.75 hours lifting)
Weight 191 lbs, Body Fat 14.4% - wanted to get below 190 and that didn't happen, but I've trimmed up over 2% of body fat since January 3rd.
March plan
I was going to begin the shift to more running and less lifting today, but looking at our temperatures next week I'm going to delay the shift. Windy and somewhere between 8 and 19 degrees Monday-Wednesday. I'll layer up and foot shuffle a couple of those days, but I'll get more out of a lift.
I've been just under 5 miles per day so far this year. I'd like to get on the other side of that number for March, drop to 185 lbs, and get the body fat into the 13's.
Sounds like you are pretty fit already. Impressive bf%. Keep up the good work.I have done a piss poor job with weight so far in 2019.
But...I have made tremendous progress with body fat. I set out to make some progress in both areas, but instead have made great progress in one and none in the other. The ingredients aren't gonna change the next 11 days, but I'm thinking about strategies to fix that beginning April 15.
March
186 miles ran w/a near identical net pace (7:34), initially I was taken aback but upon further review I only made it to the trails once in March so maintaining the pace kinda makes sense despite increasing miles/day by more than one - elevation has been between 32 and 33' per mile each month so far too.
Increased total exercise time to 30 hours (23.5 hours running, 6.5 hours lifting), weight's the same but body fat is now down to 13.6!
April plan
Maintain mileage, adjust lifting routine (result - more of it), and start making actual progress w/weight in the second half of the month
I've been doing total body lifts 2-3x per week. I'm currently adjusting to 4x per week, 2 upper and 2 lower. If the schedule forces a week of just 3x then I'll do 1 upper, 1 lower, and 1 total.
I expect my net pace to go the other way this month because of iso leg days, so my primary running focus will be weekend SoS workouts. If I am able to do a SoS workout during the week I will, but lifting is the priority so I'm not going to force the issue.
I'm being realistic about the weight because a couple of busy weekends lie ahead. Goal is to be in the same place 11 days from now - between now and then examine where I need to make changes to trim those pesky 10 pounds.
I didn't see a single mention about cadence.I have done a piss poor job with weight so far in 2019.
But...I have made tremendous progress with body fat. I set out to make some progress in both areas, but instead have made great progress in one and none in the other. The ingredients aren't gonna change the next 11 days, but I'm thinking about strategies to fix that beginning April 15.
March
186 miles ran w/a near identical net pace (7:34), initially I was taken aback but upon further review I only made it to the trails once in March so maintaining the pace kinda makes sense despite increasing miles/day by more than one - elevation has been between 32 and 33' per mile each month so far too.
Increased total exercise time to 30 hours (23.5 hours running, 6.5 hours lifting), weight's the same but body fat is now down to 13.6!
April plan
Maintain mileage, adjust lifting routine (result - more of it), and start making actual progress w/weight in the second half of the month
I've been doing total body lifts 2-3x per week. I'm currently adjusting to 4x per week, 2 upper and 2 lower. If the schedule forces a week of just 3x then I'll do 1 upper, 1 lower, and 1 total.
I expect my net pace to go the other way this month because of iso leg days, so my primary running focus will be weekend SoS workouts. If I am able to do a SoS workout during the week I will, but lifting is the priority so I'm not going to force the issue.
I'm being realistic about the weight because a couple of busy weekends lie ahead. Goal is to be in the same place 11 days from now - between now and then examine where I need to make changes to trim those pesky 10 pounds.
Or fog.I didn't see a single mention about cadence.
Do not approve.
Loved the discussion from this last night. Fell asleep and woke up this morning thinking about it. I'm still a relative newb and all and haven't run a full marathon but here's my two cents worth anyway...9. All runners have different minds and bodies. The most important thing is for the runner to be mentally and physically comfortable with a plan.
There is a 5K on Memorial Day that I've run before that I'm thinking about doing. Thinking about something else also, but not sure yet.@ChiefD
Any 5K race you considered trying over the next month to take advantage of current miles/fitness? Might help gauge for the relay too, no?
May the Fourth be with you.Monthly update:
Jan - 82.9 miles
Feb - 106.0 miles
Mar - 117.6 miles, rocked my goal for the Carmel HM
April plan - keep adding miles, hopefully hit a new "record" for miles in the month and get ready for May the 4th.
Speaking of May 4th...
Today while on a nice slow run around the office neighborhood, I set my mind to the idea of trying to run the mini in 1:39:59 or better.
19 seconds a mile seems daunting... we'll see how things go but I feel like I have to try.
Haha. It’s even more ironic that it’s my birthday. Had no clue May the Fourth was a thing until about a year ago.
You should send an email to the Klimat guy and ask why you live in a perpetual fog:MAC_32 said:Or fog.
I keep meaning to then not remembering until I'm getting ready to run then forgetting again until Gian makes the suggestion but I'm too tired to do it now and tell myself I'll do it tomorrow morning only to forget again until I'm getting ready to run.You should send an email to the Klimat guy and ask why you live in a perpetual fog:
support@klimat.app
To bring it back to a question I asked you last month - bigger people like you and I are impacted more by the elements. I wouldnt be surprised if it isnt any more complicated than that.Saw a tweet today from Des Linden: "Some call it taper time, I prefer 'putting on the finishing touches.' Knowing the purpose of the work becomes more critical than ever. Today's workout mantra: Nothing to prove, lots to lose. Believe it's all within you."
So everybody knows that I was hoping to run 2:57ish in Carmel (and I legitimately think I was in shape to do so) but ended up running 10 minutes slower. Part of me wants to go with the "just wasn't my day" narrative, but I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't at least partially my fault. On March 23, one week before the race, my coach's training plan called for a 12-mile progression run with 1-5 at 7:45 pace, 6-9 at 7:20-7:30, and 10-12 at 7:00-7:10 for overall average pace somewhere around 7:28.
You'll recall that my last 20-miler a couple weeks prior didn't end well, and so it was mentally important for me that I do well on this run. So instead of following the plan and intentionally holding back, I kinda just went with the flow, which in my rested state meant running a lot faster than Coach prescribed; I ended up averaging 7:06 overall with the last 5 miles at 6:42 average/mile (a couple seconds faster than GMP). I never felt like I was pushing or anything until maybe the last 10 minutes or so, but I still can't help but wonder if maybe I wasn't fully recovered from that run when I toed the line at Carmel. Is 22 seconds/mile for 10 miles a full 7 days before the marathon really that big of a deal for a guy who tends to recover quickly? I guess I'll never know...
By comparison, I did look at my last "long" run a week before I ran 2:59:25 at Indy last fall. 11 miles at 7:23/mile, last two at 6:54 and 6:50...
Thanks for the reply. Indy last year was perfect. 30-something degrees and no wind that was memorable at all.Your HR averaged 152 in Indy. You averaged 156 in Carmel and got up to 160 pretty early.
Carmel looks a lot hillier and the wind and rain had an effect obviously. I assume Indy was cool/cold. Was the wind mild?
I followed your training pretty closely on Strava and always felt things were going well. If I were to guess, I’d say it was a combination of the course/conditions and the inexplicable bad day.
I’d be surprised if that last progression run made much of a difference if any. Although maybe you should follow what you did that last week before Indy the next time before an A marathon just in case.
Carmichael always said it takes ten days to get the benefit of any training run (fitness wise). I've never followed that, but it would indicated that anything faster the GMP is a waste of time inside of ten days. If you used training peak software (I don't), you could see whether your performance improves with fitness or freshness, then adapt your plan accordingly.Saw a tweet today from Des Linden: "Some call it taper time, I prefer 'putting on the finishing touches.' Knowing the purpose of the work becomes more critical than ever. Today's workout mantra: Nothing to prove, lots to lose. Believe it's all within you."
So everybody knows that I was hoping to run 2:57ish in Carmel (and I legitimately think I was in shape to do so) but ended up running 10 minutes slower. Part of me wants to go with the "just wasn't my day" narrative, but I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't at least partially my fault. On March 23, one week before the race, my coach's training plan called for a 12-mile progression run with 1-5 at 7:45 pace, 6-9 at 7:20-7:30, and 10-12 at 7:00-7:10 for overall average pace somewhere around 7:28.
You'll recall that my last 20-miler a couple weeks prior didn't end well, and so it was mentally important for me that I do well on this run. So instead of following the plan and intentionally holding back, I kinda just went with the flow, which in my rested state meant running a lot faster than Coach prescribed; I ended up averaging 7:06 overall with the last 5 miles at 6:42 average/mile (a couple seconds faster than GMP). I never felt like I was pushing or anything until maybe the last 10 minutes or so, but I still can't help but wonder if maybe I wasn't fully recovered from that run when I toed the line at Carmel. Is 22 seconds/mile for 10 miles a full 7 days before the marathon really that big of a deal for a guy who tends to recover quickly? I guess I'll never know...
By comparison, I did look at my last "long" run a week before I ran 2:59:25 at Indy last fall. 11 miles at 7:23/mile, last two at 6:54 and 6:50...
I agree with most everyone else. I truly just think it wasn’t your day. I remember you saying you knew pretty early on that 2:57 wasn’t going to happen. Also, you were definitely capable of sub 2:57, in my opinion. I am firm believer in some days you have it and some you don’t.Saw a tweet today from Des Linden: "Some call it taper time, I prefer 'putting on the finishing touches.' Knowing the purpose of the work becomes more critical than ever. Today's workout mantra: Nothing to prove, lots to lose. Believe it's all within you."
So everybody knows that I was hoping to run 2:57ish in Carmel (and I legitimately think I was in shape to do so) but ended up running 10 minutes slower. Part of me wants to go with the "just wasn't my day" narrative, but I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't at least partially my fault. On March 23, one week before the race, my coach's training plan called for a 12-mile progression run with 1-5 at 7:45 pace, 6-9 at 7:20-7:30, and 10-12 at 7:00-7:10 for overall average pace somewhere around 7:28.
You'll recall that my last 20-miler a couple weeks prior didn't end well, and so it was mentally important for me that I do well on this run. So instead of following the plan and intentionally holding back, I kinda just went with the flow, which in my rested state meant running a lot faster than Coach prescribed; I ended up averaging 7:06 overall with the last 5 miles at 6:42 average/mile (a couple seconds faster than GMP). I never felt like I was pushing or anything until maybe the last 10 minutes or so, but I still can't help but wonder if maybe I wasn't fully recovered from that run when I toed the line at Carmel. Is 22 seconds/mile for 10 miles a full 7 days before the marathon really that big of a deal for a guy who tends to recover quickly? I guess I'll never know...
By comparison, I did look at my last "long" run a week before I ran 2:59:25 at Indy last fall. 11 miles at 7:23/mile, last two at 6:54 and 6:50...
Dang. That’s a lot. Sounds like a lot of Florida folksDid any of you Carmel guys see the email from the RD today? Apparently 25% of people registered for Carmel decided not to run.
Poooooooosays!Did any of you Carmel guys see the email from the RD today? Apparently 25% of people registered for Carmel decided not to run.
Last name checks out.Pictures are up. I look like a drowned rat.
We all were that day.Pictures are up. I look like a drowned rat.
Be careful here. You just ran a marathon and you are a relatively newer marathon runner. I would recommend you run nothing but easy runs for at least 2-3 weeks. You may feel recovered but there is underlying muscle/tissue damage that needs to fully heal.So, what is a good post-marathon running plan? Right now I need to be careful on the number of days, as my wife wasn't thrilled with the 6 day a week plan. My kids have soccer practices, so I usually run at those cause I can get away with it. So right now I'm thinking:
Mon: Off
Tuesday: Run - probably 5 miles based on soccer practice
Wednesday: Run - Can get in 7- 9 easy miles or a longer tempo run in my 1.5 hour time limit
Thursday: Run - Can get in 7- 9 easy miles or a longer tempo run in my 1.5 hour time limit
Friday: Off
Saturday: Run - Flexible on distance
Sunday: Run - Flexible on distance
I'm thinking something like a tempo run on either Wednesday or Thursday, and pretty much easy runs the other days with the mileage varying on time. Thoughts? Will probably add some speed work on one of the easy days in May to get ready for the relay.
Nothing of substance for 3-4 weeks. Start off with Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday then see how you feel and decide whether to add Wednesday or not. Re-assess weekly until you get to the end of week 3 or 4. Then decide if you want to add any SoS.So, what is a good post-marathon running plan? Right now I need to be careful on the number of days, as my wife wasn't thrilled with the 6 day a week plan. My kids have soccer practices, so I usually run at those cause I can get away with it. So right now I'm thinking:
Mon: Off
Tuesday: Run - probably 5 miles based on soccer practice
Wednesday: Run - Can get in 7- 9 easy miles or a longer tempo run in my 1.5 hour time limit
Thursday: Run - Can get in 7- 9 easy miles or a longer tempo run in my 1.5 hour time limit
Friday: Off
Saturday: Run - Flexible on distance
Sunday: Run - Flexible on distance
I'm thinking something like a tempo run on either Wednesday or Thursday, and pretty much easy runs the other days with the mileage varying on time. Thoughts? Will probably add some speed work on one of the easy days in May to get ready for the relay.
Do not listen to any of this nonsense. Train like a BMF so we get the dub in St. Louis.Nothing of substance for 3-4 weeks. Start off with Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday then see how you feel and decide whether to add Wednesday or not. Re-assess weekly until you get to the end of week 3 or 4. Then decide if you want to add any SoS.
I was wondering if you were going to be out there. I just signed up for the tracking.Trying to attempt Umstead this weekend if you want tracking info I can PM it to you
Nothing of substance for 3-4 weeks. Start off with Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday then see how you feel and decide whether to add Wednesday or not. Re-assess weekly until you get to the end of week 3 or 4. Then decide if you want to add any SoS.
sorry - didn't catch this til now. My calendar had June 1 circled to be present at St. Louis relay for S's and giggles. I likely won't be in shape to run any event whether St. Louis, Wheaton or Chicago (not that I was even on the list for relay). To answer your question though, my company is committed to prostate cancer events throughout the U.S. If my left knee cooperates, I'll be out at a few of these.I took note of that as well. Pure MAF has me at a HR under 120! But the Friel trial would be more like 145, I believe. My slow, easy-breathing pace puts my HR in the 140s, and I'm OK with that. I just don't have an interest in running slow enough to put the HR in the 120s ...I feel that doing so makes my stride so abnormal that I'm doing more harm than good.
@Brony - which race is your company sponsoring? I believe the Cosley Zoo Run in Wheaton is on June 1st. I'm hoping to catch a race somewhere around mid-May to early June.
Whoa, so are you coming down for it?sorry - didn't catch this til now. My calendar had June 1 circled to be present at St. Louis relay for S's and giggles. I likely won't be in shape to run any event whether St. Louis, Wheaton or Chicago (not that I was even on the list for relay). To answer your question though, my company is committed to prostate cancer events throughout the U.S. If my left knee cooperates, I'll be out at a few of these.
A hard 5k effort would be a great idea to know where you’re at. Also maybe start fitting faster 3-4 miles in the middle of longs runs.gianmarco said:As a training question, this base plan has quite a few races scheduled with the first being a 5K at the end of next week. It's a scheduled step-back week as well. As I'm not running a race next week, should I just run a hard 5K on my own or just do what would otherwise be a long run on that Sunday? I MIGHT do a 10K on May 4th as of right now, but nothing else planned.
He's not on a trail leg. You have it. He and I are the 2 without.I was thinking about the relay race this morning and @JShare87's health. We may want to think about him not having to run a trail leg if at all possible. He has no hills in Florida to train on, and with his back pain I think flat surfaces would be best. Thoughts?