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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (9 Viewers)

Juxtatarot said:
Do you notice a difference in your running the days after?
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Yes, but.

I usually only see her shortly before a race. So my body is amidst taper madness sorta stuff and my volume has been trending down. The tune up is a contributing factor, but is it a greater one than just the reduced volume? :shrug:

 
gruecd said:
One other thing.  If you're planning to run on the day that you get the massage, do it beforehand.  Your legs will feel like dog#### afterwards.
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:goodposting:

I think it may undo any of the work that was done too. One of the objectives is tension release. The re-tightening from running seems counterproductive. 

 
SteelCurtain said:
Marriott Copley.

Likely Friday to Tuesday.

Not sure yet as my family may come for some of it.  Likely at a group dinner Sunday night. 

Where do you live?  I used to live in Brighton, Brookline and Norwood, so I'm familiar with Boston suburbs.
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Im west, Lancaster.  Rte2 and 190.  About 15min west of 495/117 or 15 min north of Worcester.

You will be staying downtown.  Let me know if your family doesnt make it.

 
JShare87 said:
Haha. When I realized what he did, I immediately thought of you. As to him announcing something, I didn’t hear because my headphones were still working at the time. I really think of most of you during a race, especially a 3+ hour race. I’ll tell you who I think of most though. It’s @SFBayDuck and the other ultra runners. No disrespect to @SayWhat?, @AAABatteries, @JAA, or any of the other true endurance athletes, but Duck’s Western States report really left me in awe. When I get to the 20 or so mile mark, those guys pop in my head and stay there continuously. I’m thinking, “how tf do they go further than 26 miles?” Everyone has their own specialty but the more I think of those guys, the more respect I have for them.
 

I had this thought during my last mile. The course was a loop, so for the last mile there’s a sign: Marathoners first loop turn left. Half marathoners and 2nd loop, turn right to the finish line. I wonder if someone said to me, instead of finishing this marathon now, turn left, run another half (so 39.3 miles total) and we’ll give you a million dollars. How many runners would do that without prior knowledge. Like they sprung the proposal on you at that moment when you’ve mentally prepared to be finished in a few minutes. I know I’d say, keep the money, I’m done. In fact, I’m not sure I would run another mile for a million! How about you guys?
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On my 11 mile training run yesterday I had to poop twice ... yes two (2) times.  One of these was an emergency poop where I was quite lucky to find a spot.  First was ~mile 2, second was ~mile 6.

I bet you will think more often of me now, good luck!

 
JAA said:
Im west, Lancaster.  Rte2 and 190.  About 15min west of 495/117 or 15 min north of Worcester.

You will be staying downtown.  Let me know if your family doesnt make it.
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2021 will be interesting.  We've got quite a FBG crew in Boston that year.  Also, my wife, who cares little about my running and racing, decided to announce to our kids that the whole family (w/spouses and grandkids) would travel to Boston for the race.  That will be nice, but she's unaware of the dynamics of (a) it's a hard course to spectate, and (b) I want to socialize with all youz guys!   We'll see how it develops.  (She's convinced this is my last marathon, unaware that the new AG in 2026 will be a new target.)

 
I’m thinking about trying something new/old for my training for the next couple of months.

Self-assessment

  • I didn’t get in the number of miles I needed to in 2019, 2,223 was my lowest total since 2014
  • I neglected the long run in 2019
  • Because of these things my aerobic fitness isn’t where it should be
The other thing that is on my mind is that I think I am a speedster per McMillan

  • I develop my speed with only a few speed workouts and can always perform well at 5K and shorter distances.
  • My individual weakness is that my lactate threshold speed is very slow.
  • McMillan recommendation “I would spend more time on my base phase and my stamina phases and less on my speed. After all, I only need three to five speed workouts to optimize this aspect of my running. So for me, a stamina phase lasting eight weeks works well. However, for a person with a high lactate threshold speed, eight weeks might be too long. They would get stale. This happens to me with speed training. Since my body adapts readily and quickly to speed training, I find that I can’t tolerate too much speed work, too frequently or I get fatigued and feel “flat”.”
After reading this I starting counting back from Broad Street with the following outline:

  • 4 weeks base
  • 7 weeks stamina (strides as well)
  • 4 weeks speed (maybe 2 weeks of 1000s or 1200s) and (2 weeks of 600s-800s +plus short tempo)
  • 2 weeks peak
After thinking about it a bit I don’t believe that 4 weeks of base training (in which I am already in the 4th week of) isn’t going to be enough.  I need to do the training so that I can do the training.  In some ways I feel good about the effort I gave in the fall of 2019 in that I showed up every Tuesday and Thursday and put in the work with the HMP-10 and HMP runs. The reality was that I was surviving those workouts and not thriving. I was running the HMP runs slower than I had in the past and I couldn’t run as far as I’d like on the weekends because I was so beat. I think if I start with tempo/stamina workouts next week I will be in a similar situation. I believe that a lot of my success in early 2018 was due to my marathon training in fall of 2017.

My plan of attack is to now focus on building my aerobic base and follow Hadd’s Phase 1 training for the next two months. The old pdf is referenced on the first post of the thread but there is also a more readable version here. Essentially I will be running a lot of miles at my Max HR-50 (145) and this is something I did in preparing for my first marathon in 2012. One thing I didn’t do in 2012 was Initial LTHR (initial lactate threshold heart rate) runs because at the time I was just getting the mileage in.

Per Hadd:

“Initial LTHR (initial lactate threshold heart rate): begin at 155-160 and do not let the HR rise on the run. Build up the distance you can run for, over time, to 10 miles. At first, you may have to slow down within the run to maintain HR, but over the weeks and months, you should note that the running speed begins to remain more stable and you do not have to slow down (so much) to stop your HR rising. In time, the running pace at this HR (and all other HR’s above it) will also improve. Only move this HR up when your running pace vs HR is rock steady and you (easily) are able to run 10 miles at this HR without loss of pace or rise in HR. At that point, only move the HR up by 5bpm and begin again.”

So my plan is to follow the guidelines of Hadd phase 1 with one Initial LTHR workout a week for February and March. In April I will likely do some traditional tempo and VO2 max work ahead of Broad Street in May. In the fall for marathon training I will keep McMillan’s guidance for speedsters in mind. I think Pfitz’s plans suit me well because of VO2 max workouts at the end of the plan.

Thanks for reading, just documenting my thought process (selfishly for me), and giving you guys a heads up as to why my run Thursday morning run will have 10 miles at a HR of 155.

Back to the discussion on weed, massages, poop, and Marlee Matlin.

 
gruecd said:
Current plan is to crash at the Westin with a bunch of female runner friends (fast, but not hot) from home, unless @Steel Curtain decides to leave his family at home, in which case I'll hopefully bunk with him.  I arrive in Boston on Saturday at 1:25 and leave on Tuesday at 3:15.  I've got plans for dinner on Saturday night, but that's it.  No real needs, but if you could make sure that it's about 40 degrees with wind from the SW, that would be great. 
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Im happy to come into Boston any of those days to give tours, foot massages, etc.  Coming in Monday would be a disaster, to add to that I wouldnt be a participant, that would also suck.  Let me know what you both decide for Sat/Sun.

You guys will have an absolute blast there, that is for sure.

 
Juxtatarot said:
So, I'm thinking about trying a massage.  Would one of you with more experience walk me through what to expect?  Particularly stuff like what you wore and the social interaction with the masseuse.  Some of my areas of concern are in the upper leg and hip areas and the experience might be incredibly awkward.
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Any good masseuse will simply ask you what your problem areas are.  Also include that its your first time and you want to make sure you follow proper etiquette.  For all my experiences, you are welcome to keep undies on or be completely naked.  They will strategically move the towel appropriately.

What annoyed me about them is I specifically say my legs are sore, but they end up spending the most of the time in my shoulders.  Ive got great range of motion from swimming, but they continually tell me Im tight.  YMMV

 
JAA said:
Im happy to come into Boston any of those days to give tours, foot massages, etc.  Coming in Monday would be a disaster, to add to that I wouldnt be a participant, that would also suck.  Let me know what you both decide for Sat/Sun.

You guys will have an absolute blast there, that is for sure.
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For sure.  This will be my 9th time running (2008, 2010-2015, 2019), which makes it sooooooooo much easier because I'm familiar with all the logistics, I know where to eat and where everything is located around town, etc.  No stress.

 
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pbm107 said:
The other thing that is on my mind is that I think I am a speedster per McMillan
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I think you are too or maybe just a combo runner that leans on the speedster side of the spectrum.

Don't have much to comment on other than I think that plan makes sense.  I haven't read through Hadd.  I should do that sooner or later.  I'm glad to hear your Pfitzinger plans (with McMillan modifications).  I agree that should fit you well.  Good luck!  I hope @gianmarco's prediction comes true!

Any thoughts about trying to squeeze in a BQ qualifier before the deadline?

 
pbm107 said:
I have thought about it, but I don't think I'll be able to make it work.  The spring is a busy time of year for my family.
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What about early September?  I know weather can be a little dicey but for some of the early start marathons (like the 6:00 a.m. ones), it's reasonably safe.

 
Juxtatarot said:
Here's a good one!
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Interesting. So for me to qualify for this race, I would have to run my HM in April less than a 7:45 pace. My goal for that race is 7:37 pace.

That's doable.

So then I would have to run that Last Chance BQ at a 7:45 pace to qualify for Boston 2021. 

Doable-ish. 

:lol:

Edit to add: Just going through this number exercise in print so I can see it. 

 
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ChiefD said:
Interesting. So for me to qualify for this race, I would have to run my HM in April less than a 7:45 pace. My goal for that race is 7:37 pace.

That's doable.

So then I would have to run that Last Chance BQ at a 7:45 pace to qualify for Boston 2021. 

Doable-ish. 

:lol:

Edit to add: Just going through this number exercise in print so I can see it. 
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That would be epic!

 
ChiefD said:
Interesting. So for me to qualify for this race, I would have to run my HM in April less than a 7:45 pace. My goal for that race is 7:37 pace.

That's doable.

So then I would have to run that Last Chance BQ at a 7:45 pace to qualify for Boston 2021. 

Doable-ish. 

:lol:

Edit to add: Just going through this number exercise in print so I can see it. 
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hmmm.... I turn 50 in October and then run the Monumental in November - would be for a 2022 qualifying time. Never really thought about running it but to say I at least qualified for it... hmmm. Will have to think about that. 

 
ChiefD said:
Interesting. So for me to qualify for this race, I would have to run my HM in April less than a 7:45 pace. My goal for that race is 7:37 pace.

That's doable.

So then I would have to run that Last Chance BQ at a 7:45 pace to qualify for Boston 2021. 

Doable-ish. 

:lol:

Edit to add: Just going through this number exercise in print so I can see it. 
Click to expand...


The Iguana said:
hmmm.... I turn 50 in October and then run the Monumental in November - would be for a 2022 qualifying time. Never really thought about running it but to say I at least qualified for it... hmmm. Will have to think about that. 
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The course don't close to the public and the marathon is, like, seven loops.  If you guys actually did this I'd certainly come by and run some laps with you/cheer you on.

 
Juxtatarot said:
Here's a good one!
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I knew that would be what you posted.  But it worked well for you recently.  I love the structure - multiple loops of a great course;  individual water bottle stations; pacers targeting 4 minutes below the standards to give buffer.  You beat me to it, but I'd want to go out and support @pbm107 (or others) if they did it.  What's not to like?  Free Chicago transportation and housing (with one of us), and on-course support (we - and others? - could park ourselves at different locations to keep a steady flow of encouragement).

 
gianmarco said:
Here's an even better one....
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I have come to the conclusion that if I am going to do it, it would have to be in April. I don't race well in the heat and September and I need time to train. It would also likely have to be done as cheaply as possible.  This one is only 1.5 hours from my house so I could drive there in the morning and drive home right after. I'll see how training goes.

 
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Juxtatarot said:
The course don't close to the public and the marathon is, like, seven loops.  If you guys actually did this I'd certainly come by and run some laps with you/cheer you on.
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I appreciate it... but I was thinking more about having to evaluate my goals for the Monumental... you blasted pushers!

 
pbm107 said:
I need to do the training so that I can do the training.
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This resonates with me.  Thanks for the links to new (to me) material to read. 
Excited to follow along as you crush!

tri-man 47 said:
I knew that would be what you posted.  But it worked well for you recently.  I love the structure - multiple loops of a great course;  individual water bottle stations; pacers targeting 4 minutes below the standards to give buffer.  You beat me to it, but I'd want to go out and support @pbm107 (or others) if they did it.  What's not to like?  Free Chicago transportation and housing (with one of us), and on-course support (we - and others? - could park ourselves at different locations to keep a steady flow of encouragement).
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Wow big time environment, down to the individual bottles. Very cool. 

 
@pbm107 - thanks for that post above. I started reading that Hadd info - that’s pure gold right there. Has me thinking some things for sure.

But one thing I wanted to ask you, mainly based on what you mentioned above about running the Tuesday and Thursday workouts during your Hanson HM plan, but then feeling beat on the weekends. 

If I recall, your HM time at the end of that cycle wasn’t what you were expecting. Correct me if I am totally wrong about that.

But my question is: the Hanson full marathon plan is designed to train you for the back half of the marathon by using cumulative fatigue. So for the half marathon plan, why is the plan so close in theory to the marathon plan when you are really only training for 13 miles?

I thought about this tonight while trying to run 6x1000’s on tired legs. I started thinking - does it really make sense to beat myself up for these two runs every week? And then I thought back to your post today and wanted to see if you could expand on that. 

Do you believe those runs benefitted you, or would you do something different training for a HM once you are in that cycle.? I know your Hadd plan kind of answers some of that, but I’m thinking more from the HM training cycle than base training for a marathon (though I know that could apply for me at a later date).

 
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gianmarco said:
Good luck tomorrow, @Juxtatarot

Can't wait to read the report. Temps looking good at a neutral 72 degrees. What time are shooting for? 60 minutes?
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Pre-report:

Things are mostly on track.  When making the appointment, we never discussed an ending time.  Whatever she says will have to do.  Rookie mistake perhaps.  Woman’s name is Rochelle.  She specializes in the sports type of massages apparently.  I plan to discuss my history and my aches and pains and then just let her do whatever she wants to my body.

Logistics will be easy. Two miles away. Should be ample parking.

Just some salad, cereal and an orange for dinner tonight. I don’t expect any digestive abnormalities.

I should get plenty of sleep tonight since I won’t need to wake up early.

I’m thinking about doing a tempo run tomorrow morning for some neuromuscular stimulation.  We’ll see.

I plan to wear some athletic pants (don’t know what they are actually called) over my newest pair of athletic briefs.  I’ll wear one of my running shirts so she knows I mean business.  I’ll ditch everything but the briefs just before go-time.

I don’t have lofty expectations for this one and don’t have a preset goal.  Hopefully it will be a learning experience.

 
Juxtatarot said:
Pre-report:

Things are mostly on track.  When making the appointment, we never discussed an ending time.  Whatever she says will have to do.  Rookie mistake perhaps.  Woman’s name is Rochelle.  She specializes in the sports type of massages apparently.  I plan to discuss my history and my aches and pains and then just let her do whatever she wants to my body.

Logistics will be easy. Two miles away. Should be ample parking.

Just some salad, cereal and an orange for dinner tonight. I don’t expect any digestive abnormalities.

I should get plenty of sleep tonight since I won’t need to wake up early.

I’m thinking about doing a tempo run tomorrow morning for some neuromuscular stimulation.  We’ll see.

I plan to wear some athletic pants (don’t know what they are actually called) over my newest pair of athletic briefs.  I’ll wear one of my running shirts so she knows I mean business.  I’ll ditch everything but the briefs just before go-time.

I don’t have lofty expectations for this one and don’t have a preset goal.  Hopefully it will be a learning experience.
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is there an app or website with live tracking?  I nom Gianmarco to give us the safe-for-work updates. 

 
Juxtatarot said:
Pre-report:

Things are mostly on track.  When making the appointment, we never discussed an ending time.  Whatever she says will have to do.  Rookie mistake perhaps.  Woman’s name is Rochelle.  She specializes in the sports type of massages apparently.  I plan to discuss my history and my aches and pains and then just let her do whatever she wants to my body.

Logistics will be easy. Two miles away. Should be ample parking.

Just some salad, cereal and an orange for dinner tonight. I don’t expect any digestive abnormalities.

I should get plenty of sleep tonight since I won’t need to wake up early.

I’m thinking about doing a tempo run tomorrow morning for some neuromuscular stimulation.  We’ll see.

I plan to wear some athletic pants (don’t know what they are actually called) over my newest pair of athletic briefs.  I’ll wear one of my running shirts so she knows I mean business.  I’ll ditch everything but the briefs just before go-time.

I don’t have lofty expectations for this one and don’t have a preset goal.  Hopefully it will be a learning experience.
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You're going to crush this.

If you add this to Strava as a manual entry, oh dear God......

 
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