What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Dynasty and Redraft: David Johnson Saints (2 Viewers)

 Just for context, I am in a 10 teamer, .5PPR , where we start 2 WRs, 2 RBs and a FLEX .  6 Bench spots.

I am starting BRIAN HILL and TEVIN COLEMAN , and flexing JAMES WHITE , all these OVER David Johnson this week.  (I also roster these other RBs..... Matt Breida , Devonta Freeman, Latavius Murray, and obviously , David Johnson on the bench)  For various reasons I opted NOT to handcuff DJ recently, but I did have Chase Edmonds weeks ago.

Reading the news bits, it "seems" as though DJ is healthy, well........ at least not on the injury report.  Kingsbury said he is obviously slowed by injuries.

One would hope DJ sits this week, he could stay out and get healthy through the bye week and come back fresh week 13. (and it actually seems like he will take the field and play this week) :wall:

FWIW - In this post, further up thread  ~~~~~~> https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/725048-dynasty-and-redraft-david-johnson-rb-arizona-cardinals/?do=findComment&comment=22286760

I commented that I think Kliff Kingsbury may be using a bit of gamesmanship weekly concerning his RBs, and other starters. I don't know that is the case, but I am watching his comments and AZ news closely to see what he is saying each week. (One week DJ is "our bellcow", the next Edmonds goes slam off, and yet another week he says "Drake will be integrated slowly into our offense" and he has a monster game only a couple days after signing with the organization)

It literally wouldn't surprise me if DJ comes out guns blazing this week, runs for 80-100 yards and has a TD. But it also wouldn't surprise me if DJ gets very little carries, and looks injured in the process.

I personally am not trusting DJ until he has a solid showing. I know some are going to be forced to start him this week due to injuries, bye issues etc. etc., but I am benching him until he looks better or hes a desperation start due to other circumstances.

 TZM

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Encumbrance said:
The guy I saw last week isn't going for 80-100 against the Niners. No way.  
Click to expand...
 Then you should bench him for other options like I am.   :excited:

Jokes aside, I don't see how anyone can trust this entire scenario starting with Kingsbury's "news items" that may or may not even be true at times, all the way down through the hit-and-miss run game.

Until some signs of life appear, he is perma-benched where I have him.

TZM

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've watched DJ since before he was in the league and, fwiw as if it gives me any credibility, if you go backmto his original thread, you'll see I was adamant and one of the first to say from the very beginning, this guy will be awesome, get him, you're welcome.  Blah. Blah blah. 

But I bring that up to say I've been there the whole time and I know...know...that it is not in his character to just mail things in and get paid and coast.  He is just not that type of person.  This guy is injured and I absolutely believe this is saying more about the way the coaches are being misleading in information. And since it's a rookie coach with absolutely zero prior experience in how to handle these matters, I am looking at the coach and not DJ here.  There is something in the culture and way things are being run that is going on here.  I don't know when DJ will be healthy but when he is, he will perform well again. 

 
Shutout said:
I've watched DJ since before he was in the league and, fwiw as if it gives me any credibility, if you go backmto his original thread, you'll see I was adamant and one of the first to say from the very beginning, this guy will be awesome, get him, you're welcome.  Blah. Blah blah. 

But I bring that up to say I've been there the whole time and I know...know...that it is not in his character to just mail things in and get paid and coast.  He is just not that type of person.  This guy is injured and I absolutely believe this is saying more about the way the coaches are being misleading in information. And since it's a rookie coach with absolutely zero prior experience in how to handle these matters, I am looking at the coach and not DJ here.  There is something in the culture and way things are being run that is going on here.  I don't know when DJ will be healthy but when he is, he will perform well again. 
Click to expand...
Hopefully it's next year, for whoever grabs him in the 7th round of their redraft.

 
Shutout said:
 it is not in his character to just mail things in and get paid and coast.  He is just not that type of person.  This guy is injured and I absolutely believe this is saying more about the way the coaches are being misleading in information. And since it's a rookie coach with absolutely zero prior experience in how to handle these matters, I am looking at the coach and not DJ here.  There is something in the culture and way things are being run that is going on here.  I don't know when DJ will be healthy but when he is, he will perform well again. 
Click to expand...


 Some snip.

 Agree 100%.  Look further up thread and I pointed it out that Kingsbury seems to be playing a shell game with "injury news" to the media. Perhaps this is his way of throwing up smokescreens. "Hey, look how smart I am, I'm like Belichick and can pull the wool over everyone's eyes~!!"

This is purely a guess, but this rookie coach is likely using everything that he can to throw everyone off and succeed in any way possible. Why wouldn't he lie to the media to help cover up his true gameplan?

Regardless of how you view this, it is very apparent that DJ is hurt. Like Shutout above, I have been on DJ from the beginning. In fact I went to great lengths to argue he would have a better career than Todd Gurley (though much of that was health related early on, not necessarily talent)

AND - DJ is exactly the type of guy to try and gut it out. He is the type guy no one ever says anything bad about. Coaches, management, organization etc. etc. etc. Several times over his great early run, he showed he would play through injuries, and not just sit out.

People are quick to say "is he cuttable?, he has just lost it...... etc".  Well check out how good his numbers were through week 6. A quick glance reveals over 610+ combined yards and at least 5 TDs through week 6.  Owners have a damn short memory.  He was just fine through the first 6 weeks, and then he got injured.

So in 6 weeks you get 600+ total yards, and 5 TDs, with a new coach, a new system and a rookie QB still gathering confidence and adjusting to the NFL.  I don't think he has lost it at all, (or at least he hadn't up until that point) and I don't think any of us could have truly expected much more honestly.

 All this aside, he certainly hasn't looked the same since week 7.  This is probably a combination of....... the coach not really knowing exactly how much to give him yet, him being actually injured and trying to play through it, AND the injuries to others and the bringing in of Drake and the coach trying to figure the best utilization of the both of them.

He doesn't look like the same player from early this season, nor his past big years...but I don't think we will know exactly what he has left in the DJ tank, until he gets truly healthy and gets a sizeable workload.  Sadly, it may be next year before we get to see all that work itself out. (and it may take some speculating in FF drafts too)

I say give him time off until after their bye, then take the reins off  if he is truly healthy. I'm certainly not giving up the ship, I just want him healthy so we can use him during the fantasy playoffs.

 TZM

 
Last edited by a moderator:
David Johnson didn't register a touch in the Week 11 loss to the 49ers.

He played fewer than five snaps. Johnson is very clearly injured, so it's extremely odd the Cardinals just don't deactivate him on game days. Kenyan Drake handled all 22 backfield touches. The Cardinals have their bye next week before a Week 13 date with the Rams. Johnson owners need to hold onto him at least until that game unless he gets sent to injured reserve.

Nov 17, 2019, 7:45 PM ET
Click to expand...

 
Yea. David Johnson is totally healthy! I mean he's not on the injury report!

I'm dropping him. It's a shame but he's a waste of a spot. 

 
Insein said:
Yea. David Johnson is totally healthy! I mean he's not on the injury report!

I'm dropping him. It's a shame but he's a waste of a spot. 
Click to expand...
Even worse is that there is still no clarity here. He could heal up enough over the bye and out-touch Drake.

 
I don't see dropping him unless it's a shallow roster redraft, but he's on bye week 12 and you're not going to start him week 13 against the rams no matter what kingsbury says so if you're fighting for a playoff spot he's a luxury. I'd need to see him healthy,  and not only play well but get the starters share of carries before i could start him again. I gave up a boatload for him last year and hate myself for it.

 
The thing is, if he comes back week 13 and you need a win to get in, there's no way you can trust him to play and produce. Then if you save him for the playoffs, do you trust him at all week 14? 15? 16?

I've had him all year and haven't been able to use him since week 6. Two of those weeks I played him because he was "healthy". Cost me a game the one week because I had Edmonds on the bench. He's dragging me down. 

 
Even if DJ comes back fully healthy, it’s very possible that Drake still gets the lion’s share of touches over DJ and Edmonds.

Kingsbury seems to be enamored of his new toy and, to be fair, Drake has earned that trust since he arrived.

 
David Johnson rushed four times for 15 yards and caught both of his targets in the Cardinals' Week 13 loss to the Rams.

Johnson at least registered a touch this week, but he continues to run as Kenyan Drake's backup. Drake luckily wasn't very good on his 13 carries (2.4 YPC) and five targets (4.0 YPT), so there's a chance D.J. gets more action moving forward. That, of course, can't be banked on for Week 14 against the Steelers. Johnson is a bench hold while Drake operates as a boom-or-bust RB2.

Dec 1, 2019, 7:57 PM ET
Click to expand...

 
Any opinions on Johnson's dynasty value? He has had a couple of beastly seasons but turns 28 this month. He was offered to me in trade but I'm not sure if he is just a name at this point that holds little future value for dynasty.

 
popeye said:
I expect to see DJ in a Bucs uniform next season.
Click to expand...
Certainly possible given that he was Arians' guy and doesn't seem overly happy with the Jones/Barber combo. The main issue is whether the Bucs and/or the Cards would be willing to absorb the cap hit.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Looking at his contract moving him in 2020 looks pretty tough. 2021 maybe but he is nearing 30 years old at that time. 

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Cardinals to use running backs David Johnson, Kenyan Drake as committee
Click to expand...
"We change personnel groups a ton," Kingsbury said. "I think our guys understand we're going to put our different personnel groups out based on certain plays and it has nothing to do with whether they're a starter or not."

Yeah, that's working out well. What a clown. You are a bottom feeder in the NFC. You will be fired before you ever have a winning season.

Warhogs said:
Any opinions on Johnson's dynasty value? He has had a couple of beastly seasons but turns 28 this month. He was offered to me in trade but I'm not sure if he is just a name at this point that holds little future value for dynasty.
Click to expand...
He's done. He got his $, he's just cashing paychecks now.

 
lod001 said:
He's done. He got his $, he's just cashing paychecks now.
Click to expand...
I think that is a bit presumptuous. I don't exactly know DJ, but from what I've read and heard, he seems like a genuinely modest guy that works hard. The injury that cost him the 2017 season is a fluke.  In 2018, while few RBs probably could have produced in that offense, I think it exposed the weakness in his game and continued this year - poor ability to run through the tackles and maybe not as good as vision as he seemed to have in 2015 and 2016. It just seems more and more that Arians put him in a position to succeed, but he's just not as good as we thought he was. 

 
lod001 said:
Warhogs said:
Any opinions on Johnson's dynasty value? He has had a couple of beastly seasons but turns 28 this month. He was offered to me in trade but I'm not sure if he is just a name at this point that holds little future value for dynasty.
Click to expand...
He's done. He got his $, he's just cashing paychecks now.
Click to expand...
Depends on where he lands and how they plan to use him.

In the two games Klingsbury gave DJ more than 12 carries he posted these stats:

  • 2 games
  • 35 combined carries
  • 173 rushing yards
  • 4.9 yards average per carry 
In the rest of the games where DJ never saw more than 12 carries he posted these stats:

  • 8 games
  • 49 combined carries
  • 144 rushing yards
  • 2.9 yards per carry
One is not like the other.

 
He’s burning a hole at the end of my bench, but I don’t want to drop him and let someone else scoop and keep him next year for a last round pick. 

 
JohnnyU said:
Just goes to show you how quickly the mighty can fall.
Click to expand...
Well your statement has merit generally (and perhaps even as it pertains to DJ) but I really don’t think he’s healthy. He’s running like a guy whose back is jacked up. I don’t know why they wouldn’t just hold him out of that was the case so perhaps I am wrong - but it I wouldn’t be shocked if he is productive again next year.

 
lod001 said:
"We change personnel groups a ton," Kingsbury said. "I think our guys understand we're going to put our different personnel groups out based on certain plays and it has nothing to do with whether they're a starter or not."

Yeah, that's working out well. What a clown. You are a bottom feeder in the NFC. You will be fired before you ever have a winning season.

He's done. He got his $, he's just cashing paychecks now.
Click to expand...


zamboni said:
I think that is a bit presumptuous. I don't exactly know DJ, but from what I've read and heard, he seems like a genuinely modest guy that works hard. The injury that cost him the 2017 season is a fluke.  In 2018, while few RBs probably could have produced in that offense, I think it exposed the weakness in his game and continued this year - poor ability to run through the tackles and maybe not as good as vision as he seemed to have in 2015 and 2016. It just seems more and more that Arians put him in a position to succeed, but he's just not as good as we thought he was. 
Click to expand...
Exactly why you don't give a RB big $. Worst position to waste money on.  Ask the jets, lol . Leveon has had a great season, haha.  AND before the haters come in to say his team is awful, well that's why they signed him, to make them better,  and they still suck.

 
David Johnson rushed three times for 19 yards, catching both of his targets for 34 yards and a receiving touchdown in Arizona's Week 14 loss to the Steelers.

It's the first time Johnson's shown any signs of life since initially suffering multiple injuries back in Week 7. He was out-carried 11 to 3 by Kenyan Drake (11/37) but still saw two targets as the clear 1B option over Chase Edmonds. It's also encouraging that coach Kliff Kingsbury used 'pony' personnel — featuring both Johnson and Drake on the field at the same time — often. His 6.3 yards per carry can't be counted on weekly, but this performance at the very least keeps Johnson as a viable bench stash or deep league FLEX play in Week 15 against the Browns.
Click to expand...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm hanging on in mini dynasty, hoping he gets traded and has enough left to be the main guy again, like on the Pats. Having said that, what a disappointment and yes, at times, he looks like he's carrying a piano but  I'm assuming he's partly injured. His pass catching ability is a big plus. What do you guys think re: dynasty? Must hold or cut bait?

 
Not dynasty, but two person keeper league.  I am holding just in case as well.  Also holding Chase Edmonds in case they trade DJ and Drake moves in the off-season.  DJ to pats would be awesome, but I doubt that happens.  DJ to the bucs would be interesting, reunite with BA

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cardinals GM Steve Keim wouldn't commit to bringing back David Johnson in 2020.

Those are the kind of conversations that will certainly be held internally," said Keim when asked if the team would consider moving on from Johnson this offseason. "We'll take a deep dive into this roster and take a look at every guy." The soon-to-be 28-year-old (his birthday is Monday) hasn't brought much to the table this year, averaging an underwhelming 3.8 yards per carry while settling in as Kenyan Drake's backup. The declining vet could probably benefit from a change of scenery, though it's unlikely he'll ever return to his dominant 2016 form.

————-

DJ in Tampa makes a lot of sense, which is probably why it won’t happen.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
zamboni said:
Cardinals GM Steve Keim wouldn't commit to bringing back David Johnson in 2020.

Those are the kind of conversations that will certainly be held internally," said Keim when asked if the team would consider moving on from Johnson this offseason. "We'll take a deep dive into this roster and take a look at every guy." The soon-to-be 28-year-old (his birthday is Monday) hasn't brought much to the table this year, averaging an underwhelming 3.8 yards per carry while settling in as Kenyan Drake's backup. The declining vet could probably benefit from a change of scenery, though it's unlikely he'll ever return to his dominant 2016 form.

————-

DJ in Tampa makes a lot of sense, which is probably why it won’t happen.
Click to expand...
His cap hit is $14,250,000 for 2020, and he can be cut before the 2021 season with only $3 million dead cap.  Is that cap figure for 2020 reasonable to swing in a trade?  I have a tough time figuring these things out.  I know the cap is projected to go up by $10-15 million or so.

 
I think he could easily make the transition to WR and be really good.

They used him last week against the Steelers and he posted up for the TD.

Larry Fitzgerald wants to play but he's 40 and not getting better.  

They have Kirk but no one other than Fitz is established.  

If he got moved to WR he could be a FF weapon since he would 'likely' still get lined up as a RB and get carries.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
I think he could easily make the transition to WR and be really good.

They used him last week against the Steelers and he posted up for the TD.

Larry Fitzgerald wants to play but he's 40 and not getting better.  

They have Kirk but no one other than Fitz is established.  

If he got moved to WR he could be a FF weapon since he would 'likely' still get lined up as a RB and get carries.
Click to expand...
Tom Kessenich@TomKessenich

He was damn good when used properly in the passing game. If he gets to a team that will use him there he can regain his RB1 value. Think James White with more rushing & TD production.

Rotoworld Football@Rotoworld_FB

Cardinals expected to release David Johnson http://dlvr.it/RPTRX9

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Tom Kessenich@TomKessenich

He was damn good when used properly in the passing game. If he gets to a team that will use him there he can regain his RB1 value. Think James White with more rushing & TD production.

Rotoworld Football@Rotoworld_FB

Cardinals expected to release David Johnson http://dlvr.it/RPTRX9
Click to expand...
To me he looked like a guy running with a jacked up back - hopefully he's healthy for 2020. I'm sure most will connect dots and see him landing in Tampa Bay next year, which would of course be a pretty sweet landing spot assuming they either bring back Winston or find a free agent QB they like.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
To me he looked like a guy running with a jacked up back - hopefully he's healthy for 2020. I'm sure most will connect dots and see him landing in Tampa Bay next year, which would of course be a pretty sweet landing spot assuming they either bring back Winston or find a free agent QB they like.
Click to expand...
Here is his injury history with a projection of the 'likely hood' for injury this upcoming season.

Sports Injury Predictor Injury Predictions INJURY PREDICTIONS  Fantasy Projections RESEARCH

I don't see back injury on this list did he injure his back?

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Here is his injury history with a projection of the 'likely hood' for injury this upcoming season.

Sports Injury Predictor Injury Predictions INJURY PREDICTIONS  Fantasy Projections RESEARCH

I don't see back injury on this list did he injure his back?
Click to expand...
Yes - in a game where he left early.

Coach Kliff Kingsbury said David Johnson has "obviously" been hampered by the back and ankle injuries he's been dealing with this season.

Kingsbury added that Johnson is "still working through those and getting a feel for it." More troubling was Kingsbury's admittance that Kenyan Drake worked ahead of Johnson down the stretch because, "We just felt like with Drake, needed to get something going and kept him rolling." The Cardinals' first-year coach said he'll figure out the best role for both Johnson and Drake "over the next few weeks" and then "run with it." Johnson hasn't looked to be anything close to 100% in recent weeks, struggling to get the edge or provide anything resembling his usual burst. It wouldn't be surprising to see Drake work as the offense's lead back sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...
David Johnson (ankle, back) was not seen during the open portion of Thursday's practice.

Ankle and back woes limited Johnson to two snaps in last week's win over the Giants. At this point, it would be a stunner if he suited up against New Orleans. Coming off a three-touchdown breakout in Week 7, Chase Edmonds should flirt with RB1 status Sunday in the Big Easy. Foreshadowing Johnson's expected absence, the Cards added Alfred Morris and Zach Zenner as backfield depth earlier this week.
Click to expand...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

JohnnyU
Is the 2024 RB Class really that bad?
2 3
Replies
113
Views
4K
BigTex
BigTex
Joe Bryant
Ben Johnson - Bobby Slowik and "Hope"
Replies
24
Views
725
GregR
GregR
Max Power
NFL Teams asking for Forensic Accounting of NIL Money
Replies
27
Views
712
Bri
B

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Top