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John Bender

PGA Tour Thread: 2019 Season Ends

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Saw David Feherty's "Off Tour" show last night.  I think I may have gone in with low-ish expectations, but I was blown away by his delivery and story telling.  He had me and my group rolling several times. 

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19 minutes ago, gump said:

Phil running...don’t see that every day.

Was there a Mister Softee driving by?

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I thought Phil came off looking like a petulant child. I get why he wanted to finish out but it just wasn't possible. Plus Casey and the amateur had no room to lose a stroke or two.

ETA

@Local12Jed: 2019 has barely started but this is EASILY my favorite sports moment of the year so far. Phil Mickelson wanted to finish, Paul Casey didn't want to. And. Phil. Was. LIVID. https://twitter.com/Local12Jed/status/1094779785077837824/video/1

Edited by JaxBill

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Oh and then there's this

@jordanondrof: Just witnessed a guy at the pro-am steal a golf cart, get arrested then pee himself. Who says golf is boring?

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Phil was reasonable when he got interviewed a few minutes later...I can’t blame him for pushing with what he has on the line.

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2 minutes ago, gump said:

Phil was reasonable when he got interviewed a few minutes later...I can’t blame him for pushing with what he has on the line.

He should be thanking Casey after watching Piercy 3 putt from 15 feet a few minutes later.

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21 minutes ago, JaxBill said:

He should be thanking Casey after watching Piercy 3 putt from 15 feet a few minutes later.

Up by 3 it’s match play and he’s got control of Casey today...may be different tomorrow. Probably doesn’t matter in the end. 

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1 hour ago, gump said:

Up by 3 it’s match play and he’s got control of Casey today...may be different tomorrow. Probably doesn’t matter in the end. 

Stallings is already in the house at -15. If Phil tees off on 17 and has problems putting like the ones who were finishing 18, suddenly playing 18 isn't too appealing. 

Those guys were checking the books on 8 foot putts because it was too dark to read the greens.

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@dougferguson405: Piercy elects to finish in the dark, runs a 15-foot birdie putt about 7 feet by the hole and 3-putts for bogey, going from T7 to T10. Difference of $46K one thing. Also gets Max Homa and Michael Thompson into LA next week via Top 10s.

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Kuchar short changes his sub-caddy after win.

The strange saga of Matt Kuchar and his fill-in caddie -- a man by the name of David Giral Ortiz or "El Tucan" -- has (sort of) come to a close. It might not be a happy ending, but at least we now have at least a few of the facts, courtesy of Golf.com's Michael Bamberger.

The story first broke back in January during Kuchar's Sony Open victory. Kuchar apparently did not pay El Tucan very well during his win at the Mayakoba Classic last fall, where he amassed winnings of $1.3 million. Ortiz was a substitute for the week, and it was first reported that Kuchar only gave him $3,000 for the win.

Kuchar later denied that saying he didn't give him the customary 10 percent earnings on a win but that he also didn't only give him $3,000 either. So we were left to wonder what he gave him between $3,000 and $130,000. Wonder no more, says Bamberger. Kuchar gave Ortiz $5,000 or 0.38 percent of his winnings. Here's Bamberger on Golf.com.

Edited by Da Guru

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1 hour ago, Da Guru said:

Kuchar short changes his sub-caddy after win.

The strange saga of Matt Kuchar and his fill-in caddie -- a man by the name of David Giral Ortiz or "El Tucan" -- has (sort of) come to a close. It might not be a happy ending, but at least we now have at least a few of the facts, courtesy of Golf.com's Michael Bamberger.

The story first broke back in January during Kuchar's Sony Open victory. Kuchar apparently did not pay El Tucan very well during his win at the Mayakoba Classic last fall, where he amassed winnings of $1.3 million. Ortiz was a substitute for the week, and it was first reported that Kuchar only gave him $3,000 for the win.

Kuchar later denied that saying he didn't give him the customary 10 percent earnings on a win but that he also didn't only give him $3,000 either. So we were left to wonder what he gave him between $3,000 and $130,000. Wonder no more, says Bamberger. Kuchar gave Ortiz $5,000 or 0.38 percent of his winnings. Here's Bamberger on Golf.com.

This is the whole story 

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/02/12/they-can-keep-their-money-kuchars-fill-in-caddie-breaks-silence-over-pay-dispute/

 

$3,000 weekly payment for a fill-in local caddie would widely be considered generous pay by Tour standards. The sticking point is the size of the bonus. A Tour caddie typically receives five percent of a player’s winnings, a higher percentage for a top-10 finish and 10 percent for a win. These arrangements are usually handshake deals.

Ortiz said that Kuchar said at the start of the tournament that he would be paid $3,000 for the week, plus an unspecified percentage of his winnings

 

This guy has been offered 20k total and turned it down because he thinks he should get 50k...

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19 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

This is the whole story 

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/02/12/they-can-keep-their-money-kuchars-fill-in-caddie-breaks-silence-over-pay-dispute/

 

$3,000 weekly payment for a fill-in local caddie would widely be considered generous pay by Tour standards. The sticking point is the size of the bonus. A Tour caddie typically receives five percent of a player’s winnings, a higher percentage for a top-10 finish and 10 percent for a win. These arrangements are usually handshake deals.

Ortiz said that Kuchar said at the start of the tournament that he would be paid $3,000 for the week, plus an unspecified percentage of his winnings

 

This guy has been offered 20k total and turned it down because he thinks he should get 50k...

Kuch would have paid his regular caddie 130K for the win so 50K seems like a great deal.

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Can't imagine a fill in caddy provides anything close to the same value as one that's with you every week. This guy doesn't know kuchar's yardages, sorts of shots he likes to hit, how to "coach" him, etc. Plus I'm sure part of the reason full time guys get compensated the way they do is because of all the travel, being away from their families, etc. 

Don't get me wrong, a 5k offer is beyond ####ty (is not like kuchar needs the money) but this guy really isn't in a position to make demands. 

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1 hour ago, TLEF316 said:

Can't imagine a fill in caddy provides anything close to the same value as one that's with you every week. This guy doesn't know kuchar's yardages, sorts of shots he likes to hit, how to "coach" him, etc. Plus I'm sure part of the reason full time guys get compensated the way they do is because of all the travel, being away from their families, etc. 

Don't get me wrong, a 5k offer is beyond ####ty (is not like kuchar needs the money) but this guy really isn't in a position to make demands. 

But my understanding is that the caddy was a local so hopefully he had previous experience with the course.

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16 minutes ago, JaxBill said:

But my understanding is that the caddy was a local so hopefully he had previous experience with the course.

Maybe. Not sure if Kuchar had played before, but I guess there's something to that.

That being said, courses are generally set up very differently for the pros compared to the general public.  The caddy obviously knows the lay of the land, but I'm not sure how much expertise he offers a big time pro like Kuchar that he cant learn from a couple of practice rounds.

I kinda think the caddy is cutting his nose to spite his face by passing on the 20k. Now its just coming off like this story was leaked to try and shame Kuchar into paying more,

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1 hour ago, TLEF316 said:

Can't imagine a fill in caddy provides anything close to the same value as one that's with you every week. This guy doesn't know kuchar's yardages, sorts of shots he likes to hit, how to "coach" him, etc. Plus I'm sure part of the reason full time guys get compensated the way they do is because of all the travel, being away from their families, etc. 

Don't get me wrong, a 5k offer is beyond ####ty (is not like kuchar needs the money) but this guy really isn't in a position to make demands. 

I like Kuchar, but can't tell you why, other than he just "seems like a good guy."  

Isn't he a fairly well-known cheapskate?  It seems to me he thought he could get away with not really paying the guy much of a bonus since

  • he wasn't a tour caddy
  • it was out of the country, guy was a Mexican, didn't speak English, and wouldn't say anything
  • figured this poor Mexican would be appreciative of a couple grand and not realize what a typical caddy would get

He needs to pay up - more than $50K at this point and apologize for the "misunderstanding".  Kuch needs to get publically shamed for this on a much larger scale than has occurred thus far.  Total dick move.  

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19 hours ago, TLEF316 said:

Can't imagine a fill in caddy provides anything close to the same value as one that's with you every week. This guy doesn't know kuchar's yardages, sorts of shots he likes to hit, how to "coach" him, etc. Plus I'm sure part of the reason full time guys get compensated the way they do is because of all the travel, being away from their families, etc. 

Don't get me wrong, a 5k offer is beyond ####ty (is not like kuchar needs the money) but this guy really isn't in a position to make demands. 

Just for being on the bag for a win that Kuchar hadn't had in years should have been reason enough to be generous. I won't hold him to 10% but he blew this one.  Nothing he can say can justify being this cheap.

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I thought his comments were fine and explained well. He had an agreement with the guy. Gave him a tad more than promised. After the dude called his agent he offered him $15k more. 

Guy said no on “principle.” Dumb. 

Should Kuch have offered more initially? Yeah probably. But $20k is a pretty good take considering the guy agreed to $3k+. Why would he pay $45k more than they agreed to together?

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1 hour ago, Johnny Rock said:

I thought his comments were fine and explained well. He had an agreement with the guy. Gave him a tad more than promised. After the dude called his agent he offered him $15k more. 

Guy said no on “principle.” Dumb. 

Should Kuch have offered more initially? Yeah probably. But $20k is a pretty good take considering the guy agreed to $3k+. Why would he pay $45k more than they agreed to together?

Kuch did what he did because he was in a 3rd world country and he thought he could get away with it.  

I will guarantee you he wouldn't have tried that #### if it happened in this country.  

 

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17 hours ago, Johnny Rock said:

I thought his comments were fine and explained well. He had an agreement with the guy. Gave him a tad more than promised. After the dude called his agent he offered him $15k more. 

Guy said no on “principle.” Dumb. 

Should Kuch have offered more initially? Yeah probably. But $20k is a pretty good take considering the guy agreed to $3k+. Why would he pay $45k more than they agreed to together?

I agree the guy was stupid to turn it down. However, defending Kucher is nonsense. If your usual caddy was there, it would have cost you $130K. While I certainly dont expect the fill in to get that, 20K is terrible. Of course, this is in addition to the caddie having to make a call to get even that. 

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Nantz: "Ah, all the fans here love Matt Kuchar. Just a great player with a great heart and attitude. Listen to the greeting he gets here at the 18th tee. They're all saying, 'KUUUUUUCCCCHHHHHH'."

Faldo: "Take a quick listen there Jim. It sounds more like they're saying, 'BOOOOOOOOOOOOO' rather than 'KUUUUUCCCCHHHHH'."

Nantz: "That can't be right. The patrons here are some of the best in the world. Let's go to Peter Kostis."

Kostis: "Hi Jim. Yes, I can confirm they're saying, 'BOOOOOOOOOOOOO'. It must have something to do with the story we didn't report on at all during this broadcast where he basically stiffed his caddie when he won back in Mayakoba."

Faldo: "Well, that's what you get for being a cheap %^&*@!."

Kostis: "I think the fans agree with you Nick."

Nantz: "Let's take it over to 16, where Phil Mickelson has found the hazard."

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9 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

What's this bull#### with leaving the flagsticks in?

new rule for 2019.

i believe you can now also ground your club in a hazard, touch the line of a putt with your club, and repair spike marks on the green.

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1 minute ago, Quint said:

new rule for 2019.

i believe you can now also ground your club in a hazard, touch the line of a putt with your club, and repair spike marks on the green.

I like those changes - good to hear they're making these changes.

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42 minutes ago, Quint said:

new rule for 2019.

i believe you can now also ground your club in a hazard, touch the line of a putt with your club, and repair spike marks on the green.

When are they going to officially add the "Breakfast Ball" and the "foot wedge when you bounce up to a tree on a otherwise great shot" rule?

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3 minutes ago, The General said:

When are they going to officially add the "Breakfast Ball" and the "foot wedge when you bounce up to a tree on a otherwise great shot" rule?

Whats a breakfast ball?

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9 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Whats a breakfast ball?

mulligan on first tee.

 

ETA: 

a "Linda Ronstadt" - when you airmail your opponent/buddy's drive, short for "Blue Bayou"

a "Thurman Munson" - when you "dead Yank it"  

I'm not proud of sharing these.  

 

Edited by Binky The Doormat
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9 minutes ago, The General said:

When are they going to officially add the "Breakfast Ball" and the "foot wedge when you bounce up to a tree on a otherwise great shot" rule?

:footwedge:

Judge: "Don't count that. I was interfered with."

Spaulding: [sh!t]

Danny: "Yes, sir."

.........................................................................................

Danny: "Why don't you improve your lie a little sir?"

Judge:  "Yes, yes. Winter rules."

:footwedge:

S: "Double farts!"

Edited by Quint
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story

Kuchar gonna call the Mexican caddy and pay up, according to Twitter.

Edited by facook

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3 minutes ago, facook said:

story

Kuchar gonna call the Mexican caddy and pay up, according to Twitter.

Kuchar is a good dude. This is all so ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, Quint said:

new rule for 2019.

i believe you can now also ground your club in a hazard, touch the line of a putt with your club, and repair spike marks on the green.

Seriously? Bunkers, too?

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1 minute ago, Apple Jack said:

Kuchar is a good dude. This is all so ridiculous.

Gotcha society.

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I have basically stumbled into a "fantasy golf league".  It is not very traditional, , maybe more of a pool.    We only draft 4 golfers and we only compete in the 4 majors, not a full season of tournaments.   If your golfer is best of the bunch for the tourney, you win.  There is a head to head component as well.  The draft process is one where everyone secretly submits a golfer's name.  If two or more people choose that golfer, he is scratched and ineligible to be on a team.  Inevitably, some big names end up getting washed out.  If no one submits the name you submit, that golfer is yours.    You keep going round by round until everyone  has a full roster.  If you keep picking names that others pick, before you know it you may be scrapping the bottom of the barrel and filling your roster with the likes of Brian Harmon and Kevin Chappell (both of whom were on rosters last year, but not very helpful).  Last year I ended up with Rahm, Fleetwood, Mikelson, and Schauffele.   I don't really follow golf too closely, and I didn't have much strategy.  Anybody have any strategy suggestions for approaching this type of selection process?  Or is it just too unpredictable...throw out names and hope for the best? 

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Just now, Apple Jack said:

Seriously? Bunkers, too?

bunkers: still cannot ground club, but you can move loose impediments (rocks, leaves, etc.)

i should have been more specific with "hazard" - it's now called a "penalty area" (e.g. red stakes) and you may move loose impediments, take a practice swing that touches the ground, and ground your club ahead of making a stroke without penalty.

also, time for looking for a lost ball is now three minutes max....down from five. and double-hitting a ball is no longer a penalty, just counts as one stroke, and you're allowed relief for an embedded ball, except in a bunker, in the "general area" (previously referred to as "through the green").

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6 minutes ago, Galileo said:

I have basically stumbled into a "fantasy golf league".  It is not very traditional, , maybe more of a pool.    We only draft 4 golfers and we only compete in the 4 majors, not a full season of tournaments.   If your golfer is best of the bunch for the tourney, you win.  There is a head to head component as well.  The draft process is one where everyone secretly submits a golfer's name.  If two or more people choose that golfer, he is scratched and ineligible to be on a team.  Inevitably, some big names end up getting washed out.  If no one submits the name you submit, that golfer is yours.    You keep going round by round until everyone  has a full roster.  If you keep picking names that others pick, before you know it you may be scrapping the bottom of the barrel and filling your roster with the likes of Brian Harmon and Kevin Chappell (both of whom were on rosters last year, but not very helpful).  Last year I ended up with Rahm, Fleetwood, Mikelson, and Schauffele.   I don't really follow golf too closely, and I didn't have much strategy.  Anybody have any strategy suggestions for approaching this type of selection process?  Or is it just too unpredictable...throw out names and hope for the best? 

There is a horses for courses element to golf. Looking at somebody's track record at a course can be useful. And who's hot, although there are not a lot of back to back winners. People who don't win all that often are often fried the following week. People with a lot of top tens. Good across all statistical categories rather than elite in one or two and low in others.

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4 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

Seriously? Bunkers, too?

The bunker rules are mostly the same. Dude in my group was explaining it (poorly) a couple of weeks ago, and it didn’t make much sense.

I think it amounts to just being able to move loose impediments. No practice swings or testing the surface.

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1 minute ago, Apple Jack said:

There is a horses for courses element to golf. Looking at somebody's track record at a course can be useful. And who's hot, although there are not a lot of back to back winners. People who don't win all that often are often fried the following week. People with a lot of top tens. Good across all statistical categories rather than elite in one or two and low in others.

good advice.

also, check the European Tour stats/earnings and find players who will get invited to Majors and not be on the radar for the casual fan.

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5 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

There is a horses for courses element to golf. Looking at somebody's track record at a course can be useful. And who's hot, although there are not a lot of back to back winners. People who don't win all that often are often fried the following week. People with a lot of top tens. Good across all statistical categories rather than elite in one or two and low in others.

Where might one find this kind of info?

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20 minutes ago, Galileo said:

I have basically stumbled into a "fantasy golf league".  It is not very traditional, , maybe more of a pool.    We only draft 4 golfers and we only compete in the 4 majors, not a full season of tournaments.   If your golfer is best of the bunch for the tourney, you win.  There is a head to head component as well.  The draft process is one where everyone secretly submits a golfer's name.  If two or more people choose that golfer, he is scratched and ineligible to be on a team.  Inevitably, some big names end up getting washed out.  If no one submits the name you submit, that golfer is yours.    You keep going round by round until everyone  has a full roster.  If you keep picking names that others pick, before you know it you may be scrapping the bottom of the barrel and filling your roster with the likes of Brian Harmon and Kevin Chappell (both of whom were on rosters last year, but not very helpful).  Last year I ended up with Rahm, Fleetwood, Mikelson, and Schauffele.   I don't really follow golf too closely, and I didn't have much strategy.  Anybody have any strategy suggestions for approaching this type of selection process?  Or is it just too unpredictable...throw out names and hope for the best? 

We do a thing for the Majors and a couple of the other bigger tournaments.

Pick one from each category using the world rankings. 1-10; 11-20; 21-30; 31-40; and one from the remaining field.

Lowest combined score over par wins. Makes Sunday's of those tournaments even better.

Hit submit too early...I use this site for a lot of free info and stats: https://www.golfstrat.com/

 

Edited by The General

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35 minutes ago, Galileo said:

I have basically stumbled into a "fantasy golf league".  It is not very traditional, , maybe more of a pool.    We only draft 4 golfers and we only compete in the 4 majors, not a full season of tournaments.   If your golfer is best of the bunch for the tourney, you win.  There is a head to head component as well.  The draft process is one where everyone secretly submits a golfer's name.  If two or more people choose that golfer, he is scratched and ineligible to be on a team.  Inevitably, some big names end up getting washed out.  If no one submits the name you submit, that golfer is yours.    You keep going round by round until everyone  has a full roster.  If you keep picking names that others pick, before you know it you may be scrapping the bottom of the barrel and filling your roster with the likes of Brian Harmon and Kevin Chappell (both of whom were on rosters last year, but not very helpful).  Last year I ended up with Rahm, Fleetwood, Mikelson, and Schauffele.   I don't really follow golf too closely, and I didn't have much strategy.  Anybody have any strategy suggestions for approaching this type of selection process?  Or is it just too unpredictable...throw out names and hope for the best? 

How many teams?

 

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