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John Bender

PGA Tour Thread: 2019 Season Ends

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1 hour ago, Galileo said:

I have basically stumbled into a "fantasy golf league".  It is not very traditional, , maybe more of a pool.    We only draft 4 golfers and we only compete in the 4 majors, not a full season of tournaments.   If your golfer is best of the bunch for the tourney, you win.  There is a head to head component as well.  The draft process is one where everyone secretly submits a golfer's name.  If two or more people choose that golfer, he is scratched and ineligible to be on a team.  Inevitably, some big names end up getting washed out.  If no one submits the name you submit, that golfer is yours.    You keep going round by round until everyone  has a full roster.  If you keep picking names that others pick, before you know it you may be scrapping the bottom of the barrel and filling your roster with the likes of Brian Harmon and Kevin Chappell (both of whom were on rosters last year, but not very helpful).  Last year I ended up with Rahm, Fleetwood, Mikelson, and Schauffele.   I don't really follow golf too closely, and I didn't have much strategy.  Anybody have any strategy suggestions for approaching this type of selection process?  Or is it just too unpredictable...throw out names and hope for the best? 

scoring system?

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11 minutes ago, grateful zed said:

scoring system?

There is none...golfer that finishes highest (low score after all rounds) in the tournament is winner and takes the pot for each major.  We have some mandatory “head to head” side betting when our golfers get paired for a round, but that is just low score for the round wins.

Edited by Galileo

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What we do is

Submit 3 or 4 golfers (pending on entries)

Whatever money they win is your total. 

After the last major most money wins. We include The Players

The catch - you can only use a golfer one time

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1 hour ago, belljr said:

What we do is

Submit 3 or 4 golfers (pending on entries)

Whatever money they win is your total. 

After the last major most money wins. We include The Players

The catch - you can only use a golfer one time

we do something similar with our pool, though to make it more interesting we've added a World Golf Ranking Multiplier. works like this:

Player's Earnings for [insert Major] x WRG position = Total Earnings ..... highest combined team earnings is the winner.

as an example, if someone rosters Rose (current #1) in the Masters and he wins, his total would be $1,980,000 x 1 = 1,980,000. if someone else rosters say Snedeker (#54) and he comes in T17, we're looking at $175,000 x 54 = $9,477,000.

we've found it encourages people to stay away from the top ranked players to form their teams, and take risks with lower ranked guys. makes Thursday & Friday more meaningful watching to see if your low-ranked guy makes the cut.

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10 minutes ago, Quint said:

we do something similar with our pool, though to make it more interesting we've added a World Golf Ranking Multiplier. works like this:

Player's Earnings for [insert Major] x WRG position = Total Earnings ..... highest combined team earnings is the winner.

as an example, if someone rosters Rose (current #1) in the Masters and he wins, his total would be $1,980,000 x 1 = 1,980,000. if someone else rosters say Snedeker (#54) and he comes in T17, we're looking at $175,000 x 54 = $9,477,000.

we've found it encourages people to stay away from the top ranked players to form their teams, and take risks with lower ranked guys. makes Thursday & Friday more meaningful watching to see if your low-ranked guy makes the cut.

Ummm.....

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Who are the players most likely to win their first Major this year...Fowler obviously...DeChambeau, Rahm...Leishman, Finau, Cantley, Cam Smith, Matsuyama?

I think JT gets another.

Edited by gump

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5 hours ago, Apple Jack said:

Kuchar is a good dude. This is all so ridiculous.

maybe he is ...maybe he isn't.  He seems like it, but we don't know.  

I do know that what he did does not reflect the actions of a "good dude."  

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13 hours ago, Binky The Doormat said:

maybe he is ...maybe he isn't.  He seems like it, but we don't know.  

I do know that what he did does not reflect the actions of a "good dude."  

I have no problem with what he did. $5k for a pick up caddie is fine, win or not. The guy was lucky to be on the bag. The only reason Kuchar folded is because he was getting harassed at Riviera and online. I'm not going to act like I know him but I've met him a couple times and know of him from a work connection. I've never seen or heard a negative thing about the guy. And a lot of positive.

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2 hours ago, Apple Jack said:

I have no problem with what he did. $5k for a pick up caddie is fine, win or not. The guy was lucky to be on the bag. The only reason Kuchar folded is because he was getting harassed at Riviera and online. I'm not going to act like I know him but I've met him a couple times and know of him from a work connection. I've never seen or heard a negative thing about the guy. And a lot of positive.

I am a Kuch fan.  But this struck me way in the wrong way ...like way. 

No need for me to repeat what I have already said in the thread - but no way that happens if the tourney was in the states.  The issue was prominently raised by a former tour player, Tom Gillis, on twitter.  

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16 hours ago, gump said:

Who are the players most likely to win their first Major this year...Fowler obviously...DeChambeau, Rahm...Leishman, Finau, Cantley, Cam Smith, Matsuyama?

I think JT gets another.

DeChambeau seems so fidgety and high strung, I dont think his nerves hold up in the major.

I could see Rahm or Cantley.

ETA I'd also add Xander Souffle to the lisr.

Edited by JaxBill

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45 minutes ago, Binky The Doormat said:

I am a Kuch fan.  But this struck me way in the wrong way ...like way. 

This. And I think the agent did a bad job of damage control.

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7 minutes ago, JaxBill said:

This. And I think the agent did a bad job of damage control.

apparently, Steinberg is notoriously bad at damage control - not earning his money.

 

Eamon Lynch‏ @eamonlynch Feb 12

One predictable takeaway from the Matt Kuchar-caddie pay dispute: Mark Steinberg’s ability to defuse thorny public relations issues remains abysmal.

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I don't know why everyone hates Feb as a sports month...meaningful golf is here.

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So Kuch is giving $50k and apologized in a heart felt way on national TV...I think his popularity will survive.

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2 hours ago, Binky The Doormat said:

I am a Kuch fan.  But this struck me way in the wrong way ...like way. 

No need for me to repeat what I have already said in the thread - but no way that happens if the tourney was in the states.  The issue was prominently raised by a former tour player, Tom Gillis, on twitter.  

Why do you think it wouldn't have happened like that in the states?

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9 minutes ago, gump said:

So Kuch is giving $50k and apologized in a heart felt way on national TV...I think his popularity will survive.

I thought his apology was genuine, he realized he screwed up.  Terrible that it came to this for him to do something but I think everyone can move on now.

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2 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

Why do you think it wouldn't have happened like that in the states?

As mentioned earlier, I believe Kuch did what he did because he was in a 3rd world country and he thought he could get away with it.  

  • Poor guy - lives in a cement hut, Kuch thinks ...this guy doesn't know what is typical payment is, so I'll just cut a straight payment deal
  • poor guy doesn't speak English
  • has no resources to "fight back" - how's he gonna create a problem?  
  • he thinks ...I flipped this guy an extra grand or two, that's a month salary for a guy "in his place", he should feel lucky he even got to caddy for me  

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3 minutes ago, Jefferson the Caregiver said:

I thought his apology was genuine, he realized he screwed up.  Terrible that it came to this for him to do something but I think everyone can move on now.

yeah, me too.  

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2 hours ago, JaxBill said:

DeChambeau seems so fidgety and high strung, I dont think his nerves hold up in the major.

I could see Rahm or Cantley.

ETA I'd also add Xander Souffle to the lisr.

Cantley is not a good enough closer to win a major.  

Rahm, I don't know what to make of, I think he's his own worst enemy.  Certainly talented enough but he can't seem to keep it under wraps.  Although Bubba wins, so maybe there is hope for him.

Schouffle I like the best of your picks.

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3 minutes ago, Binky The Doormat said:

As mentioned earlier, I believe Kuch did what he did because he was in a 3rd world country and he thought he could get away with it.  

  • Poor guy - lives in a cement hut, Kuch thinks ...this guy doesn't know what is typical payment is, so I'll just cut a straight payment deal
  • poor guy doesn't speak English
  • has no resources to "fight back" - how's he gonna create a problem?  
  • he thinks ...I flipped this guy an extra grand or two, that's a month salary for a guy "in his place", he should feel lucky he even got to caddy for me  

And what we all know for sure now, Kuchar is probably just cheap in general.

I used to caddy for a guy like him. Rich, courteous, treated me with respect, liked the guy, but he would always go the bare minimum he could get away with on the tip. 

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21 minutes ago, Binky The Doormat said:

As mentioned earlier, I believe Kuch did what he did because he was in a 3rd world country and he thought he could get away with it.  

  • Poor guy - lives in a cement hut, Kuch thinks ...this guy doesn't know what is typical payment is, so I'll just cut a straight payment deal
  • poor guy doesn't speak English
  • has no resources to "fight back" - how's he gonna create a problem?  
  • he thinks ...I flipped this guy an extra grand or two, that's a month salary for a guy "in his place", he should feel lucky he even got to caddy for me  

I see. I'm not ready to assume that. $5k to carry a golf bag for a few days is pretty good. It's worth noting that he didn't have to pay to travel, stay in a hotel, or for meals on the road. He didn't have to suffer through weeks of no paycheck for missed cuts. Comparing that guy to a tour caddie is not an apples to apples comparison.

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Fleetwood seems like an obvious choice to win a major. Ryder cup performance was probably a nice confidence boost.

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1 minute ago, Apple Jack said:

I see. I'm not ready to assume that. $5k to carry a golf bag for a few days is pretty good. It's worth noting that he didn't have to pay to travel, stay in a hotel, or for meals on the road. He didn't have to suffer through weeks of no paycheck for missed cuts. Comparing that guy to a tour caddie is not an apples to apples comparison.

As far as I know not a single player came to his defense. They all seem to think Kuch is a good dude in general but none said “yeah, 5k was fair.” That says a lot IMO. 

Apology seemed sincere though, just a frugal “deal is a deal” guy who didn’t apply some needed common sense to amend the deal after an unexpected result.

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Would like to see DJ win another Major...maybe Pebble.

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3 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

I see. I'm not ready to assume that. $5k to carry a golf bag for a few days is pretty good. It's worth noting that he didn't have to pay to travel, stay in a hotel, or for meals on the road. He didn't have to suffer through weeks of no paycheck for missed cuts. Comparing that guy to a tour caddie is not an apples to apples comparison.

yeah, no way we know that for sure.  Though I'm where Jefferson is here - he's cheap and saw an opportunity.  

 

cameron percy‏Verified account @cameronpercy1 Feb 12

100% correct. I just paid my caddy $2900 for my 5th on web tour. I couldn’t look myself in mirror if l didn’t

 

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Tom Gillis‏ @tcgillis Jan 11

Tom Gillis Retweeted Josh Kreger

It's coming. His new nickname apparently is "CRIME DOG!!! Because crime doesn't pay.  

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1 hour ago, TLEF316 said:

Fleetwood seems like an obvious choice to win a major. Ryder cup performance was probably a nice confidence boost.

Good one and he’s got all the stats...how he performs in a final group or close...we’ll see. This year is full of those...

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Saturday night live golf on GC...Tiger and Phil go back-to-back eagles.

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22 minutes ago, gump said:

Saturday night live golf on GC...Tiger and Phil go back-to-back eagles.

So the leaders tee off at 5 pm Pacific? They'll get two, maybe three holes in?

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Someone needs to come back and get their putter-head cover off of the 1st tee.

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Tailed some tout on Patrick Rodgers this week. Played him top 20. Wish I’d had the guts to play him to win.

Edited by facook
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43 minutes ago, JaxBill said:

So the leaders tee off at 5 pm Pacific? They'll get two, maybe three holes in?

A little more...they had to get something in though and the course is ripe right now..regardless this is fantastic at 8:30 in the East.

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3 minutes ago, gump said:
48 minutes ago, JaxBill said:

So the leaders tee off at 5 pm Pacific? They'll get two, maybe three holes in?

A little more...they had to get something in though and the course is ripe right now..regardless this is fantastic at 8:30 in the East.

I think rn is about when they blew the horn the last two days but they'll get a few more minutes today because they have clear skies

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17 minutes ago, gump said:

A little more...they had to get something in though and the course is ripe right now..regardless this is fantastic at 8:30 in the East.

I'm on the West Coast, but late afternoon/early evening golf is sure fun.  US Open at Pebble when the sun doesn't set till 9:00 Pacific is gonna be glorious.

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3 hours ago, Binky The Doormat said:
3 hours ago, Apple Jack said:

I see. I'm not ready to assume that. $5k to carry a golf bag for a few days is pretty good. It's worth noting that he didn't have to pay to travel, stay in a hotel, or for meals on the road. He didn't have to suffer through weeks of no paycheck for missed cuts. Comparing that guy to a tour caddie is not an apples to apples comparison.

 yeah, no way we know that for sure.  Though I'm where Jefferson is here - he's cheap and saw an opportunity.  

Lol. “NO WAY Apple Jack’s reasoned response is correct but MY guess that he’s cheap is solid.” Just struck me funny.

What if a caddy was sick and a pro pulled a fan out of the crowd and won but had agreed to a couple grand at the outset. Would $3,000 be cool then? $5,000? Would he be expected to pay $20,000? $50,000? Or 10%, $129,600? 

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7 minutes ago, Johnny Rock said:

Lol. “NO WAY Apple Jack’s reasoned response is correct but MY guess that he’s cheap is solid.” Just struck me funny.

What if a caddy was sick and a pro pulled a fan out of the crowd and won but had agreed to a couple grand at the outset. Would $3,000 be cool then? $5,000? Would he be expected to pay $20,000? $50,000? Or 10%, $129,600? 

you mean like if it were a movie?  

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6 minutes ago, JaxBill said:

Tiger just said he would have to get up at 2 or 3 AM for the 645 restart. :highMaintenance:

Those opioids and side-pieces aren't going to snort and sext themselves.

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53 minutes ago, Johnny Rock said:

Lol. “NO WAY Apple Jack’s reasoned response is correct but MY guess that he’s cheap is solid.” Just struck me funny.

What if a caddy was sick and a pro pulled a fan out of the crowd and won but had agreed to a couple grand at the outset. Would $3,000 be cool then? $5,000? Would he be expected to pay $20,000? $50,000? Or 10%, $129,600? 

It happens. Maybe not winning but caddies get fired mid-round or get sick.

Ironically, Kuchar’s wife filled in for Zach Johnson’s caddie for four holes when he got sick. No word on what he paid her. https://www.pgatour.com/news/2018/11/08/matt-kuchar-wife-sybi-kuchar-caddies-for-zach-johnson-mayakoba.html

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52 minutes ago, JaxBill said:

Tiger just said he would have to get up at 2 or 3 AM for the 645 restart. :highMaintenance:

And JT said 4:30? An hour of prep per 10 years...

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1 hour ago, Johnny Rock said:
4 hours ago, Binky The Doormat said:
5 hours ago, Apple Jack said:

I see. I'm not ready to assume that. $5k to carry a golf bag for a few days is pretty good. It's worth noting that he didn't have to pay to travel, stay in a hotel, or for meals on the road. He didn't have to suffer through weeks of no paycheck for missed cuts. Comparing that guy to a tour caddie is not an apples to apples comparison.

 yeah, no way we know that for sure.  Though I'm where Jefferson is here - he's cheap and saw an opportunity.  

Lol. “NO WAY Apple Jack’s reasoned response is correct but MY guess that he’s cheap is solid.” Just struck me funny.

What if a caddy was sick and a pro pulled a fan out of the crowd and won but had agreed to a couple grand at the outset. Would $3,000 be cool then? $5,000? Would he be expected to pay $20,000? $50,000? Or 10%, $129,600? 

I thought I read somewhere that $3K is sort of the standard rate for fill-in caddies, regardless of finish?

Most PGA Tour caddies work on a handshake deal, and there is some variance. But most players seem to go with 1-2K salary per week to cover travel expenses, 5% if they make the cut, 7-8% if they get 2nd through 10th, and 10% if they win. If they miss the cut, the player didn't earn anything and the caddie gets nothing.

I remember one fall Tiger had an old h.s. classmate caddy for a couple tournaments. Anyone remember this? It was early in his career. Anyway, the guy got a flat 10 percent and made enough to pay for med school in a couple weeks time.

Kuchar really got slammed on this one and some of that is probably deserved, but I tend to think he's a pretty sincere fellow on the whole. A few years ago he was the pro-am partner of a guy from my hometown at the Northern Trust; the guy went on and on what a genuinely nice person he was. And I have read similar comments about him from writers, players and fans for almost 20 years.

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