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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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1 hour ago, Sinn Fein said:

So, no thoughts on why the Canadian police can arrest a mass murderer without shooting him?

He wasn't brandishing the van at them at the moment?

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33 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Because they are not very good at their job?...Anyone who runs over 25 innocent people killing 10 of those innocent people, should have been shot dead.... what would be the reason to take him alive?

Yay summary execution!

The posters supporting this approach are pretty clearly not the most sophisticated lot. They identify with simplistic thinking for a reason. 

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

He wasn't brandishing the van at them at the moment?

But he was brandishing an object in his hands.  US police definitely would have shot first, asked questions later.

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Just now, Sinn Fein said:

But he was brandishing an object in his hands.  US police definitely would have shot first, asked questions later.

Oh, sorry.  Because he looks white?

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1 minute ago, maxwelledison said:

Yay summary execution!

The posters supporting this approach are pretty clearly not the most sophisticated lot. They identify with simplistic thinking for a reason. 

Yep...Waste time and money not to mention continual heartache for the victims families...By the way do know the definition of summary execution...He wasn't accused of the crime, he was witnessed committing the crime.

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2 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Oh, sorry.  Because he looks white?

:shrug:

 

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Just now, Ditka Butkus said:

Yep...Waste time and money not to mention continual heartache for the victims families...By the way do know the definition of summary execution...He wasn't accused of the crime, he was witnessed committing the crime.

I should know better, but...

So? That’s how an accusation, that may or may not lead to indictment, often begins - with a witness or witnesses. One of the fundamental elements of civilization is that, no matter how horrific the crime, the accused is entitled to due process. Again, the chance that you are remotely familiar with due process, or the enlightenment principles that support it, is around zero. 

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7 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Yep...Waste time and money not to mention continual heartache for the victims families...By the way do know the definition of summary execution...He wasn't accused of the crime, he was witnessed committing the crime.

"Mr. Policeman, I witnessed Ditka Butkus kill 10 people!  Go kill him!"

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42 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

But he was brandishing an object in his hands.  US police definitely would have shot first, asked questions later.

Was the Florida school shooter shot and killed by police?  How about the guy who just shot up the waffle house? Just 2 recent examples and I realize you're fishing but this is such a ridiculous statement.   Not saying it doesn't happen but you're painting a pretty broad, terrible picture of the police force in this country.

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26 minutes ago, Pipes said:

Was the Florida school shooter shot and killed by police?  How about the guy who just shot up the waffle house? Just 2 recent examples and I realize you're fishing but this is such a ridiculous statement.   Not saying it doesn't happen but you're painting a pretty broad, terrible picture of the police force in this country.

:shrug:

 

Since 2015, there have been 38 people killed by Canadian Police

 

In 2015, there were 1146 people killed by US police

 

No matter how you want to slice it - we have a problem.

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10 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

:shrug:

 

Since 2015, there have been 38 people killed by Canadian Police

 

In 2015, there were 1146 people killed by US police

 

No matter how you want to slice it - we have a problem.

Yes. We should definitely do something about our population density.

And..."Statistics Canada only tracks fatal police shootings if an officer is criminally charged"

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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5 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yes. We should definitely do something about our population density.

And..."Statistics Canada only tracks fatal police shootings if an officer is criminally charged"

So, people don't kill, population density kills?

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Just now, Sinn Fein said:

So, people don't kill, population density kills?

I'm just saying I don't agree a hunnert percent with your statistical analysis there, Lou.

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59 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

:shrug:

 

Since 2015, there have been 38 people killed by Canadian Police

 

In 2015, there were 1146 people killed by US police

 

No matter how you want to slice it - we have a problem.

Sure we do but I'm just arguing against your broad generalization that our police would have definitely, your words not mine, would have shot first asked questions later. I provided 2 recent examples where that wasn't the case even though they likely would've been justified shooting either perp.  We do have an issue with some police in this country but a vast majority of them are good people doing a tough job and doing it well yet they get #### on by people like you lumping the good ones with the bad.   

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2 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

How are Canadian police trained differently?  Seems like there is something to learn here.

If I had to take a guess I would say they have a much higher IQ on the people they employ.  U.S. is bottom of the barrel types for their police force.

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2 hours ago, bucksoh said:

If I had to take a guess I would say they have a much higher IQ on the people they employ.  U.S. is bottom of the barrel types for their police force.

Not a very good guess.  A lot of police officers have a college degrees and a majority have some post high school education. I guess I’m fortunate enough to live in an area with decent cops. 

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3 hours ago, Pipes said:

even though they likely would've been justified shooting either perp. 

What would be the justification?

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4 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Yes. We should definitely do something about our population density.

 

What do you think all the police killings are for?

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2 hours ago, Pipes said:

Not a very good guess.  A lot of police officers have a college degrees and a majority have some post high school education. I guess I’m fortunate enough to live in an area with decent cops. 

You can have a college degree and still be stupid.:sleep:

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16 hours ago, maxwelledison said:

I should know better, but...

So? That’s how an accusation, that may or may not lead to indictment, often begins - with a witness or witnesses. One of the fundamental elements of civilization is that, no matter how horrific the crime, the accused is entitled to due process. Again, the chance that you are remotely familiar with due process, or the enlightenment principles that support it, is around zero. 

When the murderer steps out of the vehicle immediately after mowing down innocent people and begs for the officers to shoot him in the head....I think his wishes should be granted...It is no longer an accusation but an admission of guilt...So instead they will wait and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on his trial and then dependent on Canadian law possibly house and feed this 25 year old animal until he dies of natural causes...Makes perfect sense...Good job by the officers for sparing his life..

Edited by Ditka Butkus

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16 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

"Mr. Policeman, I witnessed Ditka Butkus kill 10 people!  Go kill him!"

If the police witnessed me kill 10 people....like they witnessed the murderer in Canada...they should come kill me...

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16 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

If the police witnessed me kill 10 people....like they witnessed the murderer in Canada...they should come kill me...

I’m just going to have to fall on the “Anti-Judge Dredd” side. 

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19 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

So, no thoughts on why the Canadian police can arrest a mass murderer without shooting him?

I realize this can, and probably will become a cause vs effect argument, but you would have to add all of the police officers killed by non-accident from 1989 to current to equal the number we had in 2017. Obviously they have fewer people too, but when they sometimes go like 30 months without having a police officer murdered it probably isnt as active of a thought that they might get shot.  

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49 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I’m just going to have to fall on the “Anti-Judge Dredd” side. 

So long as that side is simultaneously pro Judge Hersey that is a fine side with which to align oneself.   

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15 hours ago, bucksoh said:

If I had to take a guess I would say they have a much higher IQ on the people they employ.  U.S. is bottom of the barrel types for their police force.

How many intelligent people do you know who would want to put in 40-50 hours a week dealing with the lowest element of society day in and day out, risking your life while doing it and making 40-50K a year?  You could not pay me enough to be a cop today.

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1 minute ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

So long as that side is simultaneously pro Judge Hersey that is a fine side with which to align oneself.   

I am also pro Judge Reinhold. 

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36 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I remember when he was Magistrate Reinhold.

Must have been weird to try to look him up when he was a 1L.

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18 minutes ago, Ketamine Dreams said:

It's Brazil. You can do that there. If this happens in the USA, they roast this woman for the way she steps on the guy as he bleeds out, especially since she's a cop. Since he dies, relatives also file a wrongful death lawsuit in order to collect their wrongful death lotto winnings. 'He was such a good boy'.

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22 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

I knew this one would be in here when I clicked on the thread today as I read about it yesterday. Clickbait headline. Nothing to see here except police doing their job. 

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1 hour ago, Johnny Rock said:

I knew this one would be in here when I clicked on the thread today as I read about it yesterday. Clickbait headline. Nothing to see here except police doing their job. 

The title of the article is

“Officer who fatally shot teen sworn in same night in East Pittsburgh”

What is  ‘clickbait’ about that?

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5 hours ago, Yenrub said:
6 hours ago, Johnny Rock said:

I knew this one would be in here when I clicked on the thread today as I read about it yesterday. Clickbait headline. Nothing to see here except police doing their job. 

The title of the article is

“Officer who fatally shot teen sworn in same night in East Pittsburgh”

What is  ‘clickbait’ about that?

I was referring to Teenager Shot and Killed by Police During Traffic Stop in East Pittsburgh

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Stop shooting people in the back when they are running from you. 

ETA: That is more my general opinion- there are certainly times when it might be necessary. Every situation needs to be judged individually. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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7 hours ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Problem #1:  No body cam on the officer.  No camera on the car.

Agreed, we really need to get this on every car and officer- for the sake of the civilians and the officers. 

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

Stop shooting people in the back when they are running from you. 

This wasn’t a teenager who ran from a car pulled over because he had a tail light out. Just let him go and put the public further at risk?

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3 minutes ago, Johnny Rock said:

This wasn’t a teenager who ran from a car pulled over because he had a tail light out. Just let him go and put the public further at risk?

It was a car that was believed to be involved in an earlier shooting. They did not know for sure if the car or the people running had shot anyone. I ran from the cops several times as a teenager (never from a traffic stop) and I am sure glad I was never fired at. Now I am pretty sure the cops were just coming after me for things like drinking in a park, vandalizing property etc. However, I didn't know for sure. There could have been a more serious crime reported that I hadn't done and didn't know about. 

I would be interested to have more info on why they thought the car was involved and some other details. I potentially could be persuaded. In general though, my opinion is officers should not shoot fleeing suspects unless they saw something dangerous in front of them. If the kid fires at them and then runs, ok. If they just saw a suspect shoot someone else, ok. Not just for running though. 

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Has there been more info on whether the kid or any of the people in the car actually were involved in the earlier shooting? 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

Has there been more info on whether the kid or any of the people in the car actually were involved in the earlier shooting? 

I read somewhere that 2 guns were found in the car. None on the person who was running away and was shot

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2 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Stop...running...from...cops.

running from the cops is a death sentence? 

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5 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It was a car that was believed to be involved in an earlier shooting. They did not know for sure if the car or the people running had shot anyone. I ran from the cops several times as a teenager (never from a traffic stop) and I am sure glad I was never fired at. Now I am pretty sure the cops were just coming after me for things like drinking in a park, vandalizing property etc. However, I didn't know for sure. There could have been a more serious crime reported that I hadn't done and didn't know about. 

I would be interested to have more info on why they thought the car was involved and some other details. I potentially could be persuaded. In general though, my opinion is officers should not shoot fleeing suspects unless they saw something dangerous in front of them. If the kid fires at them and then runs, ok. If they just saw a suspect shoot someone else, ok. Not just for running though. 

zero justification for this shooting...its a bad kill...it was wrong on every level.....even animals have a fight or flight instinct ...he wasnt charging AT the cops...he was running AWAY...awful

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I do see there are protests. I wish the issues like this could be handled with a more level headed approach. Instead, they usually break down into the same lines. Obviously, I am not a fan of cops shooting people in the back, shooting people through their garage doors, punching women in the face. However, if this kid was involved in a shooting just prior, the community also needs to come together to protest that kind of violence. 

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Just now, BustedKnuckles said:

zero justification for this shooting...its a bad kill...it was wrong on every level.....even animals have a fight or flight instinct ...he wasnt charging AT the cops...he was running AWAY...awful

I would agree for the most part. I do think there are details that could change my mind. Like if the passengers of the car were just involved in a a home and executed a family or fired 50 shots into a neighborhood home and the cops were 100% certain it was the same car, I could understand feeling the need to shoot due to the extreme danger of the situation. In almost all situations though, shooting a fleeing suspect is awful. 

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