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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

This is a really odd topic to be in this particular thread.  Yes, she was a police officer, but she was not on duty, nor acting as a police officer when this happened.

Tragedy - certainly.  But, I don't think it fits into this conversation.

I think its relevant to some of the potential underlying issues surrounding this topic.  For example if someone thinks that its systemic and now this issue that makes officers so quick to pull the trigger even in situations like this, its very relevant.  Even She said that they are taught to respond like this.  Maybe there is an issue with what is being taught?  :shrug:

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

Finally read why the defense was using her text messages and booty calls. They used it to counter the original defense strategy of arguing she was exhausted from working a double shift. Her plans to go get some mclovin after she showered basically shut that whole thing down. 

Did they publicly release the texts and pics?

:oldunsure:

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3 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

I think its relevant to some of the potential underlying issues surrounding this topic.  For example if someone thinks that its systemic and now this issue that makes officers so quick to pull the trigger even in situations like this, its very relevant.  Even She said that they are taught to respond like this.  Maybe there is an issue with what is being taught?  :shrug:

I can see that - and I think it is very worthwhile to review the training police officers get to handle confrontations with suspects.

 

I just don't get the sense that this was anything like that - but I have not really followed the facts here, beyond the basics - she claims to be in her apartment and shoots an intruder.  My understanding is this was a shoot first - ask questions later situation.  But, I think this still falls under the guise of a civilian shooting another civilian, rather than a police officer shooting someone in her capacity as a police officer.

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7 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

I think its relevant to some of the potential underlying issues surrounding this topic.  For example if someone thinks that its systemic and now this issue that makes officers so quick to pull the trigger even in situations like this, its very relevant.  Even She said that they are taught to respond like this.  Maybe there is an issue with what is being taught?  :shrug:

That's what boggles my mind about it all.  Even if she truly thought it was her apartment and she came across some guy in it, her immediate reaction is to shoot him dead?  Aside from eating ice cream, it's not like he was charging her, right?  I assume lights were on in the apartment?

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I have a problem with this verdict. 

She is guilty of a crime. She deserves prison time IMO. But I don’t know what that crime should be, and I’m pretty sure it shouldn’t be murder. She was mistaken. She wasn’t trying to murder somebody. I think intent is a big factor. This seems wrong. 

I haven't followed this case all that closely, but it did come up on local news last night.  I thought I heard her say that when she was shooting, she was shooting to kill.  What do you mean by intent here?

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8 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I haven't followed this case all that closely, but it did come up on local news last night.  I thought I heard her say that when she was shooting, she was shooting to kill.  What do you mean by intent here?

Except in the movies, I'm not realistically sure there is another type.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I have a problem with this verdict. 

She is guilty of a crime. She deserves prison time IMO. But I don’t know what that crime should be, and I’m pretty sure it shouldn’t be murder. She was mistaken. She wasn’t trying to murder somebody. I think intent is a big factor. This seems wrong. 

she wasnt mistaken, read the details

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5 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

she wasnt mistaken, read the details

You believe that she knew she was not in her apartment?

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4 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

she wasnt mistaken, read the details

I am curious - do you think she was not mistaken - i.e. she knew she was in someone else's apartment, and just killed the guy?  Or, do you think there were circumstances that she should have realized she was in the wrong apartment?

 

I have not seen much on this, or heard any of the testimony, but my thoughts are that she was mistaken - but that there were enough clues that she should have seen where she was - thus her mistake was not reasonable.

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26 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

I think its relevant to some of the potential underlying issues surrounding this topic.  For example if someone thinks that its systemic and now this issue that makes officers so quick to pull the trigger even in situations like this, its very relevant.  Even She said that they are taught to respond like this.  Maybe there is an issue with what is being taught?  :shrug:

:goodposting:  This occurred to me as well. This is a police officer who wasn't able to control the situation in this simple situation without killing someone. I really don't care if she had a long day, was exhausted, whatever. Her first instinct was to pull the trigger in a non-threatening situation.

And some people think we don't have a problem with police too eager to shoot.

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6 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I am curious - do you think she was not mistaken - i.e. she knew she was in someone else's apartment, and just killed the guy?  Or, do you think there were circumstances that she should have realized she was in the wrong apartment?

 

I have not seen much on this, or heard any of the testimony, but my thoughts are that she was mistaken - but that there were enough clues that she should have seen where she was - thus her mistake was not reasonable.

The neighbors heard he shouting.  Her apartment was one floor below.  She was sexting her sex partner.  She had numerous noise complaints about the dude.

 

Something doesnt add up her but I am 100% sure she knew that wasnt her apartment.  I am not buying the "I am so exhausted I dont know where I am" defense. 

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55 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I would like it if the news media makes it as clear as you have. To a layman like myself, conviction of murder seems like a harsh sentence. 

So is getting shot to death for sitting on your couch. 

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20 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I am curious - do you think she was not mistaken - i.e. she knew she was in someone else's apartment, and just killed the guy?  Or, do you think there were circumstances that she should have realized she was in the wrong apartment?

 

I have not seen much on this, or heard any of the testimony, but my thoughts are that she was mistaken - but that there were enough clues that she should have seen where she was - thus her mistake was not reasonable.

There’s a veterinarian in Louisiana who was arrested and is on trial for allegedly shooting her neighbor’s dog because he wouldn’t shut up while she was intoxicated. 

I don’t personally take her explanation of events as an inviolable account of what actually happened. 

Edited by Henry Ford

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2 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

allegedly shooting her neighbor’s dog because he wouldn’t shut up while she was intoxicated. 

Would the dog shut up when she was sober?

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3 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Would the dog shut up when she was sober?

Well, technically no one has heard him bark since she sobered up. 

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14 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

The neighbors heard he shouting.  Her apartment was one floor below.  She was sexting her sex partner.  She had numerous noise complaints about the dude.

 

Something doesnt add up her but I am 100% sure she knew that wasnt her apartment.  I am not buying the "I am so exhausted I dont know where I am" defense. 

Pretty sure this turned out to be untrue. 

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1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

Pretty sure this turned out to be untrue. 

If so I stand corrected but I thought I read this in the CNN piece.  That still doesnt make me change my mind

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Just now, pantherclub said:

If so I stand corrected but I thought I read this in the CNN piece.  That still doesnt make me change my mind

Yeah it was untrue.

Quote

Like law enforcement, Merritt has previously said there was a noise complaint about Jean's apartment the day he was shot. But Merritt said Wednesday that he learned that was not true. Merritt said there hadn't been a noise complaint against Jean in the two months Guyger had lived in the building.

Merritt is the attorney for the family of Jean and I am pretty sure he was the source for the rumor to begin with. 

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51 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

The neighbors heard he shouting.  Her apartment was one floor below.  She was sexting her sex partner.  She had numerous noise complaints about the dude.

 

Something doesnt add up her but I am 100% sure she knew that wasnt her apartment.  I am not buying the "I am so exhausted I dont know where I am" defense. 

What do you mean by the bold btw? Like they were arguing? 

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If she knew it wasn’t her apartment and premeditated to murder the guy why would she call 911 instead of running off?

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2 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Yeah, it’s either “capital murder” or “murder” in Texas. Capital gets you the needle.  She got the next one. 

OK so now I'm confused again because NBC news is contradicting you. The reporter just said that the jury had 2nd degree murder as an option, and turned it down. And that she might be sentenced to 99 years for murder.

Not sure who is correct here, but if the NBC guy is right, then I'm back to being uncomfortable again.

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

OK so now I'm confused again because NBC news is contradicting you. The reporter just said that the jury had 2nd degree murder as an option, and turned it down. And that she might be sentenced to 99 years for murder.

Not sure who is correct here, but if the NBC guy is right, then I'm back to being uncomfortable again.

They turned down manslaughter. 

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50 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

If she knew it wasn’t her apartment and premeditated to murder the guy why would she call 911 instead of running off?

She could have assumed as is normally the case that she would get off because officers always do. 🤷🏽‍♂️
 

until now.  👀

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Some things i am reading:

Quote

Prosecutors also pointed out that Guyger did not make adequate attempts to save Jean’s life after shooting him, including failing to perform CPR on him or using her first-aid kit.

“It didn’t cross my mind,” Guyger responded to the prosecutor asking why she didn’t use the gauze she had in her backpack lying next to her to stem Jean’s bleeding wound.

Prosecutors said it was unreasonable for a trained, five-year veteran of the police to enter the wrong apartment and shoot an unarmed man — who was not a threat to anyone — in the chest.

It is “unreasonable she could do something like that and just say ‘whoops, my bad,’ and go about her life,” Dallas County prosecutor Jason Hermus said in his closing arguments Monday, mocking Guyger’s claims that she shot Jean in self-defense.

“Self-defense is an option of last resort,” Hermus said. “She killed him unreasonably and unjustifiably.”

She also apparently on the stand said that she "intended to kill him".  That and the above likely did the trick.  I would say i agree.  A trained police officer should not have acted in this manner.  Killing should have been a last resort.  She could have shot him in the leg.  She could have done proper CPR or treated him.  She called some fellow officers instead to ask them to help. 

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1 hour ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Some things i am reading:

She also apparently on the stand said that she "intended to kill him".  That and the above likely did the trick.  I would say i agree.  A trained police officer should not have acted in this manner.  Killing should have been a last resort.  She could have shot him in the leg.  She could have done proper CPR or treated him.  She called some fellow officers instead to ask them to help. 

She wasn’t thinking straight as soon as she realized that she wasn’t in her apartment. 

I saw some texts they used to try to prove she is racist. One of them she specifically talks about not being racist just work differently. The other one she was joking around in my opinion. Weak sauce case, her lawyers must suck. 

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26 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

She wasn’t thinking straight as soon as she realized that she wasn’t in her apartment. 

I saw some texts they used to try to prove she is racist. One of them she specifically talks about not being racist just work differently. The other one she was joking around in my opinion. Weak sauce case, her lawyers must suck. 

Well she made her decision to kill before entering the apt.  She did not have to enter.  She could have called for backup.  Could have left.  She decided she wanted to not only confront the person but kill them.  Bad decision.  One of many.  
 

i was a bit shocked she didn’t get manslaughter but the more i read and listen to the testimony the more i feel this was the right call.   Let’s see if they give her a light sentence or not.

Edited by PinkydaPimp
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Last week i had to park on the floor below my normal one because i was driving a rental car.  

Floors all look the same.  

Started making the walk to my apartment and got to the front door with keys out before realizing I was at wrong apartment.  I had forgotten to get on elevator and go up a floor.

She mixed up the apartments but she also likely could have easily ran out if she was alarmed.  But when you carry a gun many will rely on that instead of deescalating a situation.

If i could chose i’d give her 10 full years.  If she was not cop and just had a concealed carry i’d give her 25.  Difference being a cop in her position is required to carry a gun i assume.

 

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This may be a case where I admit I was wrong.  After reading about the verdict this morning none of the articles are mentioning the neighbor testimony of hearing her bang on the door or the other examples I mentioned above.  Which is odd as other past articles included that.  The one weird thing is how did the door open if it was like a hotel door that locks automatically and is supposed to reverse on its hinges to specifically close and not allow this to happen?  Also the forensics said it appeared he was shot sitting on the couch perhaps moving to get up.

 

Such a weird story and I doubt we will ever know the truth.

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49 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

This may be a case where I admit I was wrong.  After reading about the verdict this morning none of the articles are mentioning the neighbor testimony of hearing her bang on the door or the other examples I mentioned above.  Which is odd as other past articles included that.  The one weird thing is how did the door open if it was like a hotel door that locks automatically and is supposed to reverse on its hinges to specifically close and not allow this to happen?  Also the forensics said it appeared he was shot sitting on the couch perhaps moving to get up.

 

Such a weird story and I doubt we will ever know the truth.

Lately almost every single cop shooting incident has bs eyewitness reports.

Take the ronald davis shooting, just look at some of the "witness" reports. 

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4 hours ago, Daywalker said:

Last week i had to park on the floor below my normal one because i was driving a rental car.  

Floors all look the same.  

Started making the walk to my apartment and got to the front door with keys out before realizing I was at wrong apartment.  I had forgotten to get on elevator and go up a floor.

She mixed up the apartments but she also likely could have easily ran out if she was alarmed.  But when you carry a gun many will rely on that instead of deescalating a situation.

If i could chose i’d give her 10 full years.  If she was not cop and just had a concealed carry i’d give her 25.  Difference being a cop in her position is required to carry a gun i assume.

 

Yea here is where is struggle.  When you make the decision to carry a gun i think you also have to assume that there are many risks that come with it.  Things like someone stealing your gun or situations like this.  Now her being a cop i think the penalty should be MORE because she had extensive training to de-escalate.  She should be able to assess situations better than a normal person.  
 

it’s definitely a mistake anyone would make going to the wrong place. I’ve opened the wrong car door before.  But when you are carrying you need to really make sure that you only use it in the right situation.  If you don’t think you can don’t carry a gun.  
 

i think the victims family also could sue the police department IMO.  You could argue their training led to a culture and mindset that led to this incident occurring.  :shrug: 

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5 hours ago, Daywalker said:

 

If i could chose i’d give her 10 full years.  If she was not cop and just had a concealed carry i’d give her 25.  Difference being a cop in her position is required to carry a gun i assume.

 

I think the opposite should happen, that since she is a cop she should have a more severe penalty because she should have the training and experience to know better. I know cops are not actually well trained or hired for having a temperament suitable for policing, but we should assume that they are and any sort of accidental or negligent death on their part should always result in a crime. The have just grown accustomed to having what would get any non-cop many years of prison swept under the rug, and the real surprise is when they are punished at all. 

Edited by huthut

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2 hours ago, pantherclub said:

This may be a case where I admit I was wrong.  After reading about the verdict this morning none of the articles are mentioning the neighbor testimony of hearing her bang on the door or the other examples I mentioned above.  Which is odd as other past articles included that.  The one weird thing is how did the door open if it was like a hotel door that locks automatically and is supposed to reverse on its hinges to specifically close and not allow this to happen?  Also the forensics said it appeared he was shot sitting on the couch perhaps moving to get up.

 

Such a weird story and I doubt we will ever know the truth.

As with most incidents.

When I hear lawyers make their cases both sides in reality do not really know what happened in many cases.

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Were they able to determine what Jean was doing before Guyger killed him? Did she just run into the apartment blasting? Did she give him orders to get down? Did he comply?

I haven't seen that evidence.

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1 hour ago, whoknew said:

Were they able to determine what Jean was doing before Guyger killed him? Did she just run into the apartment blasting? Did she give him orders to get down? Did he comply?

I haven't seen that evidence.

I have read somewhere that he said “hey,hey,hey” then apparently she fired. 

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4 hours ago, whoknew said:

Were they able to determine what Jean was doing before Guyger killed him? Did she just run into the apartment blasting? Did she give him orders to get down? Did he comply?

I haven't seen that evidence.

According to an expert testimony the bullet entry and path through Jean’s body was consistent with someone being shot while trying to stand up.

The prosecutors closing arguments stated that Jean was seated in the living room and was getting up from the couch when he was shot also there was an ironing board and a kitchen counter between the victim and the shooter

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On 10/1/2019 at 12:40 PM, Amused to Death said:

Obviously a terrible tragedy, but what I don't understand is the immediate impulse to pull out a gun and shoot. Admittedly I have not followed this case but if the man is sitting on his couch, I have to assume he was in a posture that posed no threat. The woman comes home, sees a man on her couch and the first instinct is to shoot before she can even realize its not her home?

I don't feel all that bad for her.

I haven't been following this but who walks in to someone else's place and doesn't pretty much instantly realize their mistake?  Did the dude have furniture and furnishings like hers?  :confused:

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7 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Yea here is where is struggle.  When you make the decision to carry a gun i think you also have to assume that there are many risks that come with it.  Things like someone stealing your gun or situations like this.  Now her being a cop i think the penalty should be MORE because she had extensive training to de-escalate.  She should be able to assess situations better than a normal person.  
 

it’s definitely a mistake anyone would make going to the wrong place. I’ve opened the wrong car door before.  But when you are carrying you need to really make sure that you only use it in the right situation.  If you don’t think you can don’t carry a gun.  
 

i think the victims family also could sue the police department IMO.  You could argue their training led to a culture and mindset that led to this incident occurring.  :shrug: 

I opened a car in a parking lot, got in, and was picking out my key to start it before I realized there was a baby seat in the back and butts in the ashtray (don’t smoke and no kids then.) I had hit the unlock button on my keys so I didn’t have to stick the key in the door, and it happened to be unlocked. Quite the “oh, ####” feeling

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I think prison sentences in the US are generally far too long, so I'm ok with her getting only 10 years.

But I doubt she would have gotten that short of a sentence if she were not white and/or not a cop.

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11 minutes ago, whoknew said:

I think prison sentences in the US are generally far too long, so I'm ok with her getting only 10 years.

But I doubt she would have gotten that short of a sentence if she were not white and/or not a cop.

Agree with everything you said.  I thought the sentence should have been 10-20 years.

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Just now, Dickies said:

Agree with everything you said.  I thought the sentence should have been 10-20 years.

The jury that convicted her gets to decide the sentence not the judge.

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17 minutes ago, whoknew said:

I think prison sentences in the US are generally far too long, so I'm ok with her getting only 10 years.

But I doubt she would have gotten that short of a sentence if she were not white and/or not a cop.

Agreed.  I’m still shocked she got murder so I’ll take it.  Thought it should be a touch longer but justice nevertheless.  Hopefully people learn from this.

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Can she get good behavior and cut it down some? Maybe 10 is fair, don’t know. She might have time to get out and have some sort of career possibly. 

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36 minutes ago, whoknew said:

She’s an idiot who made a tragic mistake and she should pay dearly for it. Good for this guy for recognizing that she’s still human.  Wish we could apply that to the tens of thousands of other incarcerated idiots in this country. 

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