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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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9 minutes ago, Ketamine Dreams said:

I would agree with that.  I think it more important for people that live in a community to police that community then it is to add diversity.  Granted, that(more diversity) may happen as a result of doing this but it wouldn’t be the specific objective.  

 

Its much harder to shoot the guy you see at the supermarket every week than it is some random person you don’t know and are judging based on what you heard about the people in that neighborhood.

 

also i feel like just making changes without changing the culture from the top down won’t make a difference.

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Just wanted to take a moment, prompted by another thread, to remember Eric Garner and Kelly Thomas and their senseless deaths due to abhorrent laws and policing thenceforth.  

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He asked the police for help. They told him to stay on the ground, where he was handcuffed and writhing. He said he was afraid the officers would kill him. They told him to relax. He asked for help again. They kept him pinned, his face in the grass, a knee on his back. He asked again.

Then Tony Timpa went unconscious. In less than 20 minutes he was dead.

The group of Dallas police officers detaining Timpa didn’t seem to notice he was dying in front of them. They didn’t check whether he was breathing, and they didn’t look for a pulse. Instead, the officers laughed. They mocked the way he had squirmed around, clearly in distress — “like a roly poly,” one said. They speculated about what sort of mental illness he might have, or what drugs he might have taken.

When Timpa stopped responding, the officers apparently assumed he was asleep. They kept laughing, making jokes about waking him up for school. They tapped him, shook him, but he didn’t answer. “What happened?” one officer asked.

“I don’t know, he just got quiet,” another responded.

“Just, bloop,” chimed in a third.

Timpa’s last minutes alive were made public in a disturbing video obtained and published by the Dallas Morning News and NBC5, the result of a years-long legal battle for access to records related to the 32-year-old’s death in police custody on Aug. 10, 2016.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/01/police-laughed-joked-he-lost-consciousness-handcuffs-minutes-later-he-died/

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1 minute ago, ren hoek said:

He asked the police for help. They told him to stay on the ground, where he was handcuffed and writhing. He said he was afraid the officers would kill him. They told him to relax. He asked for help again. They kept him pinned, his face in the grass, a knee on his back. He asked again.

Then Tony Timpa went unconscious. In less than 20 minutes he was dead.

The group of Dallas police officers detaining Timpa didn’t seem to notice he was dying in front of them. They didn’t check whether he was breathing, and they didn’t look for a pulse. Instead, the officers laughed. They mocked the way he had squirmed around, clearly in distress — “like a roly poly,” one said. They speculated about what sort of mental illness he might have, or what drugs he might have taken.

When Timpa stopped responding, the officers apparently assumed he was asleep. They kept laughing, making jokes about waking him up for school. They tapped him, shook him, but he didn’t answer. “What happened?” one officer asked.

“I don’t know, he just got quiet,” another responded.

“Just, bloop,” chimed in a third.

Timpa’s last minutes alive were made public in a disturbing video obtained and published by the Dallas Morning News and NBC5, the result of a years-long legal battle for access to records related to the 32-year-old’s death in police custody on Aug. 10, 2016.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/01/police-laughed-joked-he-lost-consciousness-handcuffs-minutes-later-he-died/

Just disgusting.

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WTf was the EMT doing giving him a sedative when he was already cuffed and incapacitated like that?

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3 hours ago, Max Power said:

https://youtu.be/28adKNe3OJA

Police kill armed shooter.

Amazing job by those officers (you can see them running in and ducking behind the car at the top of the screen). Seems like they waited for bystanders to clear before popping out and killing the shooter steps before he reached the door of the bar.

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Amazing job aside, though, what does it say about our country that we have police armed with long guns close enough to react within 30 seconds to the start of a mass shooting in the entertainment district of a moderate sized Midwestern city?

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1 minute ago, mcintyre1 said:

Amazing job aside, though, what does it say about our country that we have police armed with long guns close enough to react within 30 seconds to the start of a mass shooting in the entertainment district of a moderate sized Midwestern city?

we suck?

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7 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

Amazing job aside, though, what does it say about our country that we have police armed with long guns close enough to react within 30 seconds to the start of a mass shooting in the entertainment district of a moderate sized Midwestern city?

Its both necessary - and will fuel the cry for more militarization of our police forces, and sad that we seem to be sucked into a spiraling escalation of gun violence, where our police feel the need for more and more weapons to combat the threat of civilians with weapons.

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6 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

Amazing job aside, though, what does it say about our country that we have police armed with long guns close enough to react within 30 seconds to the start of a mass shooting in the entertainment district of a moderate sized Midwestern city?

This actually started as a result of the North Hollywood Bank robbery in 1997.  Many officers still carried revolvers at the time.  The police were so badly outgunned they commandeered assault weapons from a local gun shop.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, mcintyre1 said:

Amazing job aside, though, what does it say about our country that we have police armed with long guns close enough to react within 30 seconds to the start of a mass shooting in the entertainment district of a moderate sized Midwestern city?

I give up. Is it because of video games? 

Edited by Man In The Box
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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

This actually started as a result of the North Hollywood Bank robbery in 1997.  Many officers still carried revolvers at the time.  The police were so badly outgunned they commandeered assault weapons from a local gun shop.

 

That certainly ramped it up, but the militarization of police started before 1997.

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2 hours ago, mcintyre1 said:

Amazing job aside, though, what does it say about our country that we have police armed with long guns close enough to react within 30 seconds to the start of a mass shooting in the entertainment district of a moderate sized Midwestern city?

This is common in Europe except they have some kind of giant machine guns.

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33 minutes ago, whoknew said:

That certainly ramped it up, but the militarization of police started before 1997.

This is true, but as someone who has tangentially followed this, the North Hollywood bank robbery of 1997 led to a great reconsideration of arms deployed by police, and combined with another 1997 action, the 1033 program in the National Defense Authorization Act of Fiscal Year 1997.

I remembered this from following Radley Balko and his articles, but this was pulled from Wiki. 

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

This is true, but as someone who has tangentially followed this, the North Hollywood bank robbery of 1997 led to a great reconsideration of arms deployed by police, and combined with another 1997 action, the 1033 program in the National Defense Authorization Act of Fiscal Year 1997.

I remembered this from following Radley Balko and his articles, but this was pulled from Wiki. 

Have you read the Rise of the Warrior Cop by Balko? Its a pretty good history of the rise of militarization. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, whoknew said:

Have you read the Rise of the Warrior Cop by Balko? Its a pretty good history of the rise of militarization. 

I have not read the book. I used to follow him over at Reason's Hit and Run and read him for years while he was there. I tried to link to a Post article of his just now about President Obama scaling back the militarization, but it was behind a paywall. 

Edited by rockaction

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Just read the following:

"Dear Police Officers,

Please give black men and boys the same consideration you give mass murderers you apprehend without taking one shot even after they've killed dozens of people.

Thank you."

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

Just read the following:

"Dear Police Officers,

Please give black men and boys the same consideration you give mass murderers you apprehend without taking one shot even after they've killed dozens of people.

Thank you."

This is a lousy take even for this forum. Ugh. I’m surprised some of you didn’t question whether the above was a justified shooting. 

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

Just read the following:

"Dear Police Officers,

Please give black men and boys the same consideration you give mass murderers you apprehend without taking one shot even after they've killed dozens of people.

Thank you."

You probably wrote it. 

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4 hours ago, rockaction said:

This is true, but as someone who has tangentially followed this, the North Hollywood bank robbery of 1997 led to a great reconsideration of arms deployed by police, and combined with another 1997 action, the 1033 program in the National Defense Authorization Act of Fiscal Year 1997.

I remembered this from following Radley Balko and his articles, but this was pulled from Wiki. 

I also believe the aftermath of our ME wars led to a proliferation of this kind of equipment so then much of it was distributed to local law enforcement.

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As for the “hot take” above, I neither think it is lousy or unlousy. The police were certainly heroes this weekend  but they sometimes aren’t heroes. Questioning the good, bad and everything in between is important. 

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24 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

As for the “hot take” above, I neither think it is lousy or unlousy. The police were certainly heroes this weekend  but they sometimes aren’t heroes. Questioning the good, bad and everything in between is important. 

I agree. I tend to lean pro-cop on judgement call situations. However, some actions by officers are clearly wrong and I'll acknowledge those as well. 

I hate that we live in an age where people can overlook all the good things the police provide and respect what they deal with put on the line for the well-being of others. 

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4 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I agree. I tend to lean pro-cop on judgement call situations. However, some actions by officers are clearly wrong and I'll acknowledge those as well. 

I hate that we live in an age where people can overlook all the good things the police provide and respect what they deal with put on the line for the well-being of others. 

I am with you. I am glad we see eye to eye on the big picture here while acknowledging different leanings can coexist. For every X number of good police work there is Y number of bad police work. I don’t have the solution to that system of equations and of course it’s not the same everywhere. What is important to me is that we always work to find the solutions, no matter where they lead us. 

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And @Max Power my views on police have been mostly shaped by my uncle. He’s a now retired police officer- served 35 years in a suburb outside of Detroit. He’s also Japanese-American. His family was interned in California during WW2. He was the first and only Asian on the force in his city. I learned everything about police from him- good and bad. Maybe that gives me what some might consider a warped view but that’s not the kind of guy my uncle is. He’s as straight of a  shooter as they come. 

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I have family and friends who were/are cops and it would have been my second choice for a career had I not obtained my first choice. It really bothers me when people Monday morning quarterback their work without having any clue about police tactics or the use of force. They will say, "Gee, they should have shot that guy in the arm or used a Taser when he was running at them with a lethal weapon." And the race issue is still misunderstood: yes blacks are more likely to be shot by cops than whites; but do you know why? It's because they are much more likely to be involved in violent crimes than whites. And if you look at the numbers you will see that blacks are actually shot less by cops than their involvement in violent crime would predict (I've posted that multiple times here with the link). So cops are actually shooting blacks LESS than their non-black counterparts. But that isn't what the media and others projects to everyone - it's quite the opposite. And I'll repeat the link for the recent study that I had at the top of the page that is another commonly portrayed misconception about policing: 

More racial diversity in U.S. police departments unlikely to reduce shootings: study

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/more-racial-diversity-in-us-police-departments-unlikely-to-reduce-shootings-study/ar-AAEIMMu?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=mailsignout

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6 hours ago, Max Power said:

I agree. I tend to lean pro-cop on judgement call situations. However, some actions by officers are clearly wrong and I'll acknowledge those as well. 

I hate that we live in an age where people can overlook all the good things the police provide and respect what they deal with put on the line for the well-being of others. 

That's societies thinking today, blame everyone but the person doing wrong. That's how parents are bringing up their brat kids today as well. Just watching some of these live cop shows on tv, it's a wonder more moron criminals arent killed. Whatever police officers make, it isn't enough.

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9 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

You probably wrote it. 

OK?

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10 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

These people are delusional. Black lives matter in Minneapolis is a complete joke. 

The guy that says the officer should have done a wrestling move needs to be belly to belly suplexed. 

He could have at least tried de-escalating the situation with some improvisational jazz first.

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On 9/7/2018 at 11:51 AM, SHIZNITTTT said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dallas-officer-enters-apartment-she-mistakes-her-own-fatally-shoots-n907411?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma

Dallas officer enters apartment she mistakes for her own, fatally shoots man inside.   Come on man. 

Lead investigator doesn't think it was a crime

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article235457107.html

 

An Texas ranger says the victim was a threat to the killer (fortunately the judge won't let the jury hear his opinion) 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/us/botham-jean-amber-guyger-murder-trial/index.html

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1 minute ago, Yenrub said:

Lead investigator doesn't think it was a crime

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article235457107.html

 

An Texas ranger says the victim was a threat to the killer (fortunately the judge won't let the jury hear his opinion) 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/us/botham-jean-amber-guyger-murder-trial/index.html

Ate you following this case? If yes, why is the prosecution bringing up that she was distracted by a phone call with her lover? That seemed odd to me when i read it. 

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4 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Ate you following this case? If yes, why is the prosecution bringing up that she was distracted by a phone call with her lover? That seemed odd to me when i read it. 

Haven't been following it, I kind of figured it was an open and shut case, until a friend told me about the Ranger opinion yesterday. Now I'm like WTF! Guy is chilling in his apartment someone breaks in and all of a sudden the guy chilling in his apartment is the threat?

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21 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

Haven't been following it, I kind of figured it was an open and shut case, until a friend told me about the Ranger opinion yesterday. Now I'm like WTF! Guy is chilling in his apartment someone breaks in and all of a sudden the guy chilling in his apartment is the threat?

Seems really odd that they went after a murder charge and then focused on saying she was distracted. Wtf? 

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I think Amber was distracted by her married lover. Not a long shift. She texted him that day and said she was really horny. 

I think she deserves something for doing it but probably not life. 

I felt kind of bad for her listening to her 911 call. I know she didn’t mean to do it but it’s really messed her life up and she knew it too in that moment she made the call. 

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2 hours ago, NREC34 said:

I think Amber was distracted by her married lover. Not a long shift. She texted him that day and said she was really horny. 

I think she deserves something for doing it but probably not life. 

I felt kind of bad for her listening to her 911 call. I know she didn’t mean to do it but it’s really messed her life up and she knew it too in that moment she made the call. 

Imagine how much it messed up Botham Jean’s life

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3 hours ago, Yenrub said:

Imagine how much it messed up Botham Jean’s life

I have. Guess that means I can’t feel bad for her. 

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13 hours ago, NREC34 said:

I have. Guess that means I can’t feel bad for her. 

I didn’t say that you couldn’t, though I am curious as to why you would.

I usually don’t feel bad for people who shoot & kill innocent people who are doing absolutely nothing wrong but if you feel bad for her more power to you.

Edited by Yenrub

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17 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

I didn’t say that you couldn’t, though I am curious as to why you would.

I usually don’t feel bad for people who shoot & kill innocent people who are doing absolutely nothing wrong but if you feel bad for her more power to you.

This is a tough case. I don't like complete stupidity being excused in this world but does anybody really believe she had any bad intentions that evening? Well I mean outside of being horny and needing some fish from the company pier. 

I do actually believe she walked into the wrong apartment by accident that night. I am not sure how the law works in dallas, are there are choices for the jury to downgrade. I have no idea how they think a murder charge is warranted. She should do time for being dumb and that stupidity leading to an innocent man being killed, but I am not sure how much and certainly not murder. 

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This case also poses some interesting challenges, morality wise for me, because she is a cop. If this was a standard citizen that was carrying a gun, even legally, I would hold them more accountable for the fact that they had a gun. I am not a big fan of concealed carry, open carry, or obviously illegal carry so I tend to pass judgment on people carrying guns around. But then of course being a police officer should come with a higher duty of care so even though it excuses her having a gun, it means she should have exercised more care in using it. But then she was off duty, so should she be viewed as a standard gun toting citizen there? Not saying one way or the other, just laying out all the thoughts I have had regarding this case.

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

This is a tough case. I don't like complete stupidity being excused in this world but does anybody really believe she had any bad intentions that evening? Well I mean outside of being horny and needing some fish from the company pier. 

I do actually believe she walked into the wrong apartment by accident that night. I am not sure how the law works in dallas, are there are choices for the jury to downgrade. I have no idea how they think a murder charge is warranted. She should do time for being dumb and that stupidity leading to an innocent man being killed, but I am not sure how much and certainly not murder. 

Walked in or broke in?

 

Edited by Yenrub
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The Washington Post

@washingtonpost

Police chief accused of slamming black teen’s head into door: Trump is "last hope for white people"

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

Walked in or broke in?

 

Her key wouldn’t have opened the door. I think maybe it hadn’t closed right or was unlocked. 

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2 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

This case also poses some interesting challenges, morality wise for me, because she is a cop. If this was a standard citizen that was carrying a gun, even legally, I would hold them more accountable for the fact that they had a gun. I am not a big fan of concealed carry, open carry, or obviously illegal carry so I tend to pass judgment on people carrying guns around. But then of course being a police officer should come with a higher duty of care so even though it excuses her having a gun, it means she should have exercised more care in using it. But then she was off duty, so should she be viewed as a standard gun toting citizen there? Not saying one way or the other, just laying out all the thoughts I have had regarding this case.

I think the fact that she was a cop gave her the mentality to kill. Definitely worked against her here and goes to show that one mental lapse can cost any of us dearly. 

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