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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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3 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Like why not knock on the front door in the first place and immediately ID yourself as police? Why are they are creeping around the home? It was a wellness check because a door was open, sloppy police work resulted in a person being killed for no reason.

See the sad thing is, the officer was most likely scared. And scared officers are allowed to pull the trigger with no recourse which is a problem.  Especially when you are irrationally scared due to some preconceived bias.  There is a difference though between being scared, and being threatened or in a situation that requires you to shoot to kill.  Based on the info thus far, this was not that situation.  And the officer should pay the consequences for that mistake. 

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8 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

See the sad thing is, the officer was most likely scared. And scared officers are allowed to pull the trigger with no recourse which is a problem.  Especially when you are irrationally scared due to some preconceived bias.  There is a difference though between being scared, and being threatened or in a situation that requires you to shoot to kill.  Based on the info thus far, this was not that situation.  And the officer should pay the consequences for that mistake. 

If a call comes in for a wellness check because a front door is open and that makes the officer so scared that they are ready to shoot at the drop of a hat, that person has no business in the force. That’s one of the most innocuous calls possible. Sure anything can go wrong at anytime but you are there to make sure someone is ok and they did the absolute opposite of that. If the homeowner shot and killed the officer, that would have been more understandable than what happened here. 

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15 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

And obviously didn’t take the money or drugs with them.  

The money and drugs were found in his home. The firefight happened outside in the parking lot. 

They took everything he had on him outside.

Should they have tossed his place too after shooting him and one of them being shot? Provided of course that they knew which apartment was his. 

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46 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

The money and drugs were found in his home. The firefight happened outside in the parking lot. 

They took everything he had on him outside.

Should they have tossed his place too after shooting him and one of them being shot? Provided of course that they knew which apartment was his. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY-9P_CnNZg

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49 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

The money and drugs were found in his home. The firefight happened outside in the parking lot. 

They took everything he had on him outside.

Should they have tossed his place too after shooting him and one of them being shot? Provided of course that they knew which apartment was his. 

I’m mostly kidding. It is a weird situation. Also, honestly, yes - if you murder a drug dealer for what’s in his pockets you’re remarkably stupid even compared to someone who murders a drug dealer for twelve pounds of weed and thousands of dollars. 
 

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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

I’m mostly kidding. It is a weird situation. Also, honestly, yes - if you murder a drug dealer for what’s in his pockets you’re remarkably stupid even compared to someone who murders a drug dealer for twelve pounds of weed and thousands of dollars. 
 

Allegedly joshua Brown fired first hitting one of the men that were there to buy drugs. 

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12 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Allegedly joshua Brown fired first hitting one of the men that were there to buy drugs. 

I look forward to an official determination of the circumstances surrounding his death. 

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On 10/13/2019 at 12:29 AM, EYLive said:

people can't even keep incompetent cops from killing them in their own homes.

Fixed to remove the blatant racism.

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Basically, never call the cops to "assist" if that person is black. 

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18 minutes ago, Jobber said:

Basically, never call the cops to "assist" if that person is black. 

Sad but true

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I almost always try and back the side of police ....

but

 

if there are a couple of people prowling around my house, at 2:45 am, flashlight, no announcements on who they are, I can't see their vehicles ..... I'm assuming the worst, grabbing my gun to be ready ..... if they shoot me in my home for that ?

that's not me .... that's all on THEM

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Seems like one of the most significant NRA/2nd amendment cases in awhile. 

Edited by Ilov80s

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I hope in these cases we start going up the chain of command and holding others responsible.  Otherwise this will continue.

 

Hold the department responsible for not training these officers properly and encouraging an environment where this may have been(likely) the norm.  
 

Look at the laws that basically send a message to these departments that they can and should shoot first.  
 

Until they hold the people enabling this accountable this will happen over and over and over.

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We give police body armor for a reason.  We give them radios and backup for a reason.  that reason is so that they can be tactical, so that they can be safe and not feel instantly in danger, so that they can have the split seconds necessary to make sound decisions.

This was not a sound decision.  A woman is dead, unnecessarily and unjustifiably.  A gun not in the hand is not worth two in the chest. (Reworking a saying, not saying that is precisely what she got.)

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6 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

We give police body armor for a reason.  We give them radios and backup for a reason.  that reason is so that they can be tactical, so that they can be safe and not feel instantly in danger, so that they can have the split seconds necessary to make sound decisions.

This was not a sound decision.  A woman is dead, unnecessarily and unjustifiably.  A gun not in the hand is not worth two in the chest. (Reworking a saying, not saying that is precisely what she got.)

And I just can't get over the fact is was a 311 call and not even a 911 call.  I mean WTF is that cop even thinking?????

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18 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

And I just can't get over the fact is was a 311 call and not even a 911 call.  I mean WTF is that cop even thinking?????

I think its important to reinforce the notion that this is much larger than "one cop" - and I don't mean that in a sense that there a a bunch of bad cops running around.

Police around the country are poorly trained to deal with these situations, and too many have been taught (learned) over the years that its better to shoot first.  

This particular office made a bad decision.  But, imo, this reflects poorly on the department, as much, or more than the officer in question.

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FORT WORTH — The former Fort Worth police officer who fatally shot a woman through her bedroom window this weekend was charged with murder on Monday and booked into jail without the possibility for bond, according to Tarrant County jail records.

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7 hours ago, EYLive said:

Yep. Removed your blatant racism. This guy didn't shoot her because she was black. He shot her because he was a completely incompetent cop who didn't even come close to following correct procedure. He will spend the rest of his life in prison and rightfully so but he did not look thru the window and think 'oh black person, I'm gonna murder her'. 

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6 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Yep. Removed your blatant racism. This guy didn't shoot her because she was black. He shot her because he was a completely incompetent cop who didn't even come close to following correct procedure. He will spend the rest of his life in prison and rightfully so but he did not look thru the window and think 'oh black person, I'm gonna murder her'. 

Who am I racist against? I'm dying to know. 

And how do you know your bolded statement is true? If that's a black neighborhood, that could be 100% what he was thinking.

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On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:08 PM, EYLive said:

Who am I racist against? I'm dying to know. 

And how do you know your bolded statement is true? If that's a black neighborhood, that could be 100% what he was thinking.

Obviously the white cop. At the risk of getting a timeout, you just made the dumbest statement in the history of the internet and it as well is yet another racist comment. Now you know.

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1 hour ago, lod001 said:

Obviously the white cop. At the risk of getting a timeout, you just made the dumbest statement in the history of the internet and it as well is yet another racist comment. Now you know.

HEY EVERYONE!!! I'm racist against whites!!!  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

You should thank your lucky stars you live in a world where innocent black people aren't gunned down by white cops in a regular basis. What a great life.

 

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7 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

Kid shot in back of head through a fence while clearly running away from police 

https://twitter.com/ABC7Veronica/status/1186879531849637888

Awful. The kid was dumb for running, but he didn't deserve that. When are we going to get better training for police, as well as getting rid of the bad eggs?

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3 hours ago, Kal El said:

Awful. The kid was dumb for running, but he didn't deserve that. When are we going to get better training for police, as well as getting rid of the bad eggs?

The kid was running because he was wanted for a murder from the day before that. They thought he was armed, with the gun that they thought he killed somebody with(well technically the bullets didnt kill him, he shot at a moving car which caused the car to crash, allegedly). 

We will never know 100% for sure if he was guilty, but I don't think anybody really questions that. Even the statement from his atty pretty much says he was.

Quote

Even though he was armed the day before doesn't mean he's going to be armed the next day and you can't just go around shooting somebody because they used to be armed 24 hours earlier

This happened two years ago. 

Edited by parasaurolophus

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6 hours ago, Yenrub said:

I wasnt sure if this was the right thread to post that in. But yeah that is awful. No way to defend that. Was the one where the officer body slams the young girl posted in here yet? 

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A guy in my golf league who is a Detroit Police officer was a good friend of police officer killed.

 

DETROIT – It’s a sad day for the Detroit Police Department as they mourn the loss of one of their own.

An 18-year veteran of the force died following a shootout with a gunman Wednesday night in the 20000 block of Wyoming Avenue. The shooting broke out about 7 p.m. Wednesday night. The neighborhood was locked down until about 4:30 a.m. Thursday.

Officers were responding to a home invasion report Wednesday night when someone at the home opened fire on them.

Two officers were shot. One was shot in the leg and is still in the hospital. The other was fatally shot in his neck.

The suspect was shot when officers returned fire. He is in custody at the hospital.

About 275 police officers showed up to Sinai-Grace Hospital, hoping the officer would survive this.

“I’ve never seen that many police cars blocking the street. I mean, and they were just coming down the street, Kentucky, coming down from Indiana, Wyoming, and they were blocking the streets. Then this officer told me and my neighbor, ‘Get in the house and shut your door,’" said a woman who lives in the area.

Here’s what happened

Two Detroit police officers were shot while responding to a home for a home invasion report. Four officers were there and two of them were shot by someone armed with a high-powered rifle. Detroit Police Chief James Craig said the officers had cleared the upper level of the home and were met by the gunman as they came downstairs.

“As the officers arrived, occupants of this home began running out. The suspect, who was armed with a high-powered rifle, began to open fire on the officers,” said Craig.

The first officer took a bullet in the leg. The chief said that officer has been on the job for three years. He is recovering at the hospital. The other officer, the 18-year veteran, was hit in his neck.

“Because it was a high-powered rifle, the rounds reversed up through the rear of his skull where the bullet was lodged,” said Craig. Doctors at Sinai-Grace did what they could, but the officer did not survive. The suspect had a lengthy past criminal record.

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11 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

Innocent UPS driver killed by police

Hope they have lawyers on speed dial for this one. Senseless. 

I think this will be a tougher call on closer inspection.  Reports I read were that the robbers had been firing indiscriminately almost from the time they hijacked the truck.  I think Police had to take risks here.  

 

(When I first heard of this - it was simply fleeing jewel thieves, and the Police reaction was unacceptable, but if the robbers were in fact posing a threat to the public by firing weapons, Police had to act decisively.) . Sad for any loss of life.

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Just now, parasaurolophus said:

This is such a terrible description of what actually happened.   

Yeah utter BS. These guys were firing weapons at will. I happened to watch the entire thing live on my local news down here in South Florida. Law Enforcement had no choice. They started spraying bullets at the police the moment they started to approach the truck to get them to surrender. No win situation. 

 

But there will be lawsuits, hyperbole reaction and rhetoric and it will be a giant ####show like everything else these days in the world of 24/7 media news cycles and social media.

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16 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

Innocent UPS driver killed by police

Hope they have lawyers on speed dial for this one. Senseless. 

CBS news must have a bunch of visually impaired reporters. First they couldn't tell that they watched surveillance video at 5 times normal speed involving the cruise ship incident and now they say this...

Quote

News helicopters were following the chase and at least one showed the conclusion live, with one person falling out of the vehicle's passenger side after several shots were fired. It was unclear if the shots were fired from inside the truck, from law enforcement who were moving in or some combination thereof.

Ummmm.... You can see the flashes clear as day in the truck???

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10 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

This is such a terrible description of what actually happened.   

I'm not going to argue with you that they probably had no choice, but there's no denying they were using civilian occupied vehicles as cover during a shootout. :shrug: 

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2 minutes ago, Todem said:

Yeah utter BS. These guys were firing weapons at will. I happened to watch the entire thing live on my local news down here in South Florida. Law Enforcement had no choice. They started spraying bullets at the police the moment they started to approach the truck to get them to surrender. No win situation. 

 

But there will be lawsuits, hyperbole reaction and rhetoric and it will be a giant ####show like everything else these days in the world of 24/7 media news cycles and social media.

I am old enough to remember the north hollywood shootout. Those officers were lauded. Bet you they would be skewered by twitter trolls today. 

OMG they went and got AR15's from a pawn shop!!! They had a military vehicle! Thieves and militarized hoodlums those cops! Should have just let those guys go!

Although we still had skeezy lawyers back then since one of the robber's family sued the police. Yes. You read that right. The robber's. 

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3 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

I'm not going to argue with you that they probably had no choice, but there's no denying they were using civilian occupied vehicles as cover during a shootout. :shrug: 

Had you said they used civilian occupied vehicles as cover would at least be an accurate description.

Saying they used "human shields" is completely different and requires a leap. A big one. 

 

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Just now, parasaurolophus said:

Had you said they used civilian occupied vehicles as cover would at least be an accurate description.

Saying they used "human shields" is completely different and requires a leap. A big one. 

 

Okay.

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38 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

I'm not going to argue with you that they probably had no choice, but there's no denying they were using civilian occupied vehicles as cover during a shootout. :shrug: 

SO tell me...what would you do if you are in that same exact situation. Get shot? Take bullets? It is natural survival instinct to seek cover when bullets are flying by your head.

 

Jesus man.

 

Again no win situation. The first shot I saw come out of the UPS truck I looked at my wife and said this is ending badly....innocent people are going to die. There was no good ending here. Was not possible when your dealing with insane people shooting from the truck. They were going down shooting. They knew it the moment they hijacked the truck. 

So easy to sit back and judge. You have no idea what is going on unless you are in that situation yourself. It is survival. Bullets were flying everywhere.

Edited by Todem

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45 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

CBS news must have a bunch of visually impaired reporters. First they couldn't tell that they watched surveillance video at 5 times normal speed involving the cruise ship incident and now they say this...

Ummmm.... You can see the flashes clear as day in the truck???

Yeah and I reserve judgement till all the ballistics are done. That will paint the picture and does not lie.

I saw lot's of flashes from the truck as the officers approached. I knew it was going to be a bad scene. It was horrifying to watch live. Absolutely crazy. It was Channel 4 down here in Dade/Broward county who showed it all live and one of the studio news women was really shook up on live television. She could not believe they showed it unfold like that and her colleague started apologizing on air for their crew showing it all.

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45 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I am old enough to remember the north hollywood shootout. Those officers were lauded. Bet you they would be skewered by twitter trolls today. 

OMG they went and got AR15's from a pawn shop!!! They had a military vehicle! Thieves and militarized hoodlums those cops! Should have just let those guys go!

Although we still had skeezy lawyers back then since one of the robber's family sued the police. Yes. You read that right. The robber's. 

I don't think any civilians were killed in the North Hollywood shootout though.

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1 minute ago, kodycutter said:

I don't think any civilians were killed in the North Hollywood shootout though.

Luck. There were people everywhere. Again it was a no win situation. And everything happened very very fast. It is a terrible thing what happened yesterday. But I don't blame law enforcement. They had no choice to act they way they did. It was the freaking wild wild west.

Edited by Todem

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Police deserve a lot of flak for their handling of that situation. I saw a video on Reddit from someone in a car near the end where the UPS truck goes by and (literally, no joke, people counted) over 80 police vehicles drive by in "pursuit." That can't be protocol for the situation and almost certainly contributed to the free for all of gunfire that ended up in two innocent lives taken at the hands of officers. The use of long rifles to engage the suspects also seems highly questionable given the area where it ended up going down -- a crowded multi-lane area near an intersection. Those rifle rounds will cut right through the UPS truck and have a very high risk of hitting innocent bystanders. The officers using an occupied civilian's vehicle as cover while firing is also pretty unconscionable. 

Joe had that post about whether the public perception of police has changed which I mostly avoided, but this is a prime example of how messed up law enforcement is in our country these days, IMO. A completely disproportionate response that resulted in chaos and innocent deaths which, IMO, comes from the "warrior/warzone" mentality that many police and even departments promote within the profession.

Edited by mcintyre1

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4 hours ago, mcintyre1 said:

 

Joe had that post about whether the public perception of police has changed which I mostly avoided, but this is a prime example of how messed up law enforcement is in our country these days, IMO. A completely disproportionate response that resulted in chaos and innocent deaths which, IMO, comes from the "warrior/warzone" mentality that many police and even departments promote within the profession.

And your post is a prime example of how messed up this country is criticizing law enforcement.  Why don't you spend your outrage on the criminals who started the whole mess by shooting a jewelry store worker in the head and then took an innocent man hostage?  

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.  If the police back off these dangerous criminals and they end up killing a family in a car accident or take 30 people hostage, you will just spend your time complaining about the police didn't do enough to protect innocent lives.

 

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