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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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The only officer I could see having no charges would be the Asian decent officer on the video. The other two were on the body and were feeling, in theory, what the killer was. Any one of them should have identified the lack of movement. Not third degree murder, but something more than civil charges. 

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3 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

How does insurance on a business work? 

I'm certainly no expert, but I saw a lot of people claiming that most business insurance doesn't cover arson.

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10 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

This seems likely - no charges.

But, If I were the family's attorney filing the civil suit, I would be sure to go after them personally - in addition to the police and city.

 

These officers should never forget that they stood by while a fellow officer slowly killed a man, and they did nothing to stop it, nor render aid.

I am sure merritt and/or crump will do that. 

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Trump is really starting to impress me 

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1266434153932894208

Quote

Looting leads to shooting, and that’s why a man was shot and killed in Minneapolis on Wednesday night - or look at what just happened in Louisville with 7 people shot. I don’t want this to happen, and that’s what the expression put out last night means....

....It was spoken as a fact, not as a statement. It’s very simple, nobody should have any problem with this other than the haters, and those looking to cause trouble on social media. Honor the memory of George Floyd!

 

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Mike Pence has made a major announcement - seemingly doing a U-Turn on Trump Administration policies about protests:

 

Quote

 

Mike Pence @Mike_Pence

We believe in law and order in this Country. We condemn violence against property or persons.

We will always stand for the right of Americans to peacefully protest and let their voices be heard.

 

 

 

Looks like they will support NFL players and other who want to peacefully protest now.....

 

 

 

 

 

( :lmao: - gotcha, real tweet, fake support)

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

I'm certainly no expert, but I saw a lot of people claiming that most business insurance doesn't cover arson.

Its not going to cover arson by the insured themselves (or someone on their behalf) but arson by a 3rd party would almost certainly be covered.  (I imagine this event would qualify as an "act of vandalism")  Most have an exclusion for "Dishonesty" which would apply to arson by the insured (or in collusion with the insured)

In an ideal world, the insurance company would then pursue subrogation against the person who set the fire, (lets say, for example, it was a rival business owner or someone that actually had assets to go after)  but obviously that's not realistic here.

 

Edited by TLEF316
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Posted (edited)

Did you see that car on the news last night with some younger black females yelling to people in the streets "Shoot a white person?"   YIKES!!  Whitey get out of Minny!!

Edited by Summer Wheat

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33 minutes ago, squistion said:

But others don't care to scroll through anything that long. In fact, I recall one of the mods advising against posts that lengthy. 

Can we get a pole on this so we can see how others feel? 

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5 minutes ago, TLEF316 said:

Its not going to cover arson by the insured themselves (or someone on their behalf) but arson by a 3rd party would almost certainly be covered.  (I imagine this event would qualify as an "act of vandalism")  Most have an exclusion for "Dishonesty" which would apply to arson by the insured (or in collusion with the insured)

In an ideal world, the insurance company would then pursue subrogation against the person who set the fire, (lets say, for example, it was a rival business owner or someone that actually had assets to go after)  but obviously that's not realistic here.

 

 

Its been a while since I specifically reviewed for this, but pretty sure riot or civil commotion coverage is a separate exclusion/endorsement. No?

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Posted (edited)

Link to the criminal complaint against the officer

Has some more details that we haven't known about:

  • One of the initial responding officers pulled his gun on him at the start of the encounter. 
  • While Floyd was still breathing, Officer Lane asked if they should roll him on his side, Officer Chauvin refused this request, indicating they should stay in position
  • After Floyd had stop breathing or moving, Lane again asked if they should roll him on his side. Officer Keung then checks his pulse and finds none, indicating this to the other officers. None of the officers move from their positions.

This will end up being the controversial part, and is likely why charges waited:

Quote

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner (ME) conducted Mr. Floyd's autopsy on May 26, 2020. The full report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.

The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total. Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive. Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone positions is inherently dangerous.

 

Edited by mcintyre1
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, whoknew said:

 

Its been a while since I specifically reviewed for this, but pretty sure riot or civil commotion coverage is a separate exclusion/endorsement. No?

Obviously every contract is different (all peril vs named peril, tons of AVAILABLE exclusions that COULD be utilized) , but my company (a VERY large one) doesn't have such an exclusion for direct physical loss.

There are often limitations on a policy holder claiming business income without a physical loss (example: riot down the street, police close area, nobody can shop at your business, you lose money. Typically known as "Civil Authority". Often times that coverage will be sub-limited, rather than the insured having access to their full Business Income limit) but someone setting fire to your building?  I dont see how that isn't covered.

Edited by TLEF316
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Just now, timschochet said:

He called them thugs and tweeted that looting leads to shooting. Now he’s trying to cover himself. Is that what impresses you? 

 

That's your opinion. 

Violent rioting and stealing is thuggish behavior, that is a fact.

Every time there is mass rioting someone is shot and killed, so I don't see the problem with his tweet. It is once again, factual. I do however see a problem with twitter mischaracterizing his tweet just because they don't want to see Trump re-elected.

George Floyd was an honorable man, so I don't think its a stretch to say he wouldn't have wanted the rioting.

 

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Trump and his supporters now say Trump didn't mean something we all know he did. Straight from the playbook.

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3 minutes ago, giantcookie said:

 

That's your opinion. 

Violent rioting and stealing is thuggish behavior, that is a fact.

Every time there is mass rioting someone is shot and killed, so I don't see the problem with his tweet. It is once again, factual. I do however see a problem with twitter mischaracterizing his tweet just because they don't want to see Trump re-elected.

George Floyd was an honorable man, so I don't think its a stretch to say he wouldn't have wanted the rioting.

 

No one wants rioting. But President Trump’s tweet was pretty clearly a threat. Yes that’s my opinion. 

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36 minutes ago, TLEF316 said:

Its not going to cover arson by the insured themselves (or someone on their behalf) but arson by a 3rd party would almost certainly be covered.  (I imagine this event would qualify as an "act of vandalism")  Most have an exclusion for "Dishonesty" which would apply to arson by the insured (or in collusion with the insured)

In an ideal world, the insurance company would then pursue subrogation against the person who set the fire, (lets say, for example, it was a rival business owner or someone that actually had assets to go after)  but obviously that's not realistic here.

Were I the insurance company, I might seek reimbursement from the city or state, under the premise that their lack of action led directly to the event.

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39 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Mike Pence has made a major announcement - seemingly doing a U-Turn on Trump Administration policies about protests:

 

 

 

Looks like they will support NFL players and other who want to peacefully protest now.....

 

 

 

 

 

( :lmao: - gotcha, real tweet, fake support)

Anybody can protest all they want, but the moment it directly stops them from doing their job, their job doesn’t have to tolerate it.  An NFL team is a private business.

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26 minutes ago, timschochet said:

He called them thugs and tweeted that looting leads to shooting. Now he’s trying to cover himself. Is that what impresses you? 

Please don't feed the trolls or quote them.

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39 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Did you see that car on the news last night with some younger black females yelling to people in the streets "Shoot a white person?"   YIKES!!  Whitey get out of Minny!!

Isn’t Minnesota almost completely white?

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Just now, Rich Conway said:

Please don't feed the trolls or quote them.

 

10 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

The president started the racist birther movement.  We are lucky the country didn’t burn on election night.

Supporting Trump is like supporting David Duke but saying you only do because of his economic policies.  

You sleep with pigs you are one.

were you referring to Daywalker calling Trump supporters pigs?

I was trying not to respond, it wasn't a very nice post.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

Isn’t Minnesota almost completely white?

Not in the areas we're talking about here.

The population of Minneapolis, MN is 59.3% White Alone, 19.3% Black or African American Alone, and 9.62% Hispanic or Latino.

The population of St. Paul, MN is 51.9% White Alone, 19.3% Asian Alone, and 14.5% Black or African American Alone. 

Edited by Andy Dufresne

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5 minutes ago, giantcookie said:

were you referring to Daywalker calling Trump supporters pigs?

I was trying not to respond, it wasn't a very nice post.

He probably should have said, "If you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas."

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Not in the areas we're talking about here.

The population of Minneapolis, MN is 59.3% White Alone, 19.3% Black or African American Alone, and 9.62% Hispanic or Latino.

The population of St. Paul, MN is 51.9% White Alone, 19.3% Asian Alone, and 14.5% Black or African American Alone. 

That is good info about M-SP. I stand corrected

Thanks

Edited by Sam Quentin

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2 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

@GravelInstitute

George Floyd was murdered over a counterfeit $20 bill.

It's tragic that something so simple started a chain of events leading to his death. But it is neither true nor helpful to categorize it as the reason he was killed. 

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15 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

Anybody can protest all they want, but the moment it directly stops them from doing their job, their job doesn’t have to tolerate it.  An NFL team is a private business.

That's an eloquent argument for why an NFL owner or coach may not want Colin Kaepernick protesting.

Now, about the President calling him a son of a #####...

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Just now, whoknew said:

Now, about the President calling him a son of a #####...

The President is tactless and classless. I don't know that it's much deeper than that. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mcintyre1 said:

A Minneapolis firefighter had invested his life's savings into a sports bar that was looted and burned to the ground last night. In a bit of better news, there's a gofundme campaign started by the man that has now raised $187,000 by the time of my posting.

Edited because duplicative

Edited by Alex P Keaton

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Mayor Frey has declared a curfew from 8pm - 6a starting tonight and ending Sunday morning for "all public places within the City of Minneapolis."

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18 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:

Were I the insurance company, I might seek reimbursement from the city or state, under the premise that their lack of action led directly to the event.

Good idea in theory, but I can't imagine "not arresting a presumed to be innocent person within 2 days of their crime" would ever be enough to get anything in court. 

In reality, the insurer would likely spend much more on legal fees than they would just paying the claim.  So not gonna happen.

Most carriers aren't especially aggressive in subrogation for this very reason. Unless they have a SLAM DUNK subro case, they'll generally just chalk it up as a loss and move on.  Paying to rebuild one fire damaged bar is a relative drop in the bucket.

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1 hour ago, mcintyre1 said:

A Minneapolis firefighter had invested his life's savings into a sports bar that was looted and burned to the ground last night. In a bit of better news, there's a gofundme campaign started by the man that has now raised $187,000 by the time of my posting.

Almost 250k now.

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2 hours ago, Stuart_Little said:

Don't worry, Trump will pardon him if he's convicted of anything, just like he did for Sheriff Joe Arpaio (who is on the ballot again this year).

He's mostly known for being a minor TV celebrity and the pardon, but take a closer look at this guy. He pioneered the Trumpian methodology (from wiki😞

Claims that sheriff's office failed to properly investigate serious crimes

How about a link or a spoiler tag? That's a wall of text, man. 

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Just now, mcintyre1 said:

Mayor Frey has declared a curfew from 8pm - 6a starting tonight and ending Sunday morning for "all public places within the City of Minneapolis."

I wonder if he added the words "or else". 

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22 minutes ago, giantcookie said:

 

were you referring to Daywalker calling Trump supporters pigs?

I was trying not to respond, it wasn't a very nice post.

It is not nice having a racist president.  We all having to deal with it.  You can handle a post.

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30 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

Anybody can protest all they want, but the moment it directly stops them from doing their job, their job doesn’t have to tolerate it.  An NFL team is a private business.

Why yes. Yes it is, and should be left to handle their own situations as such without input from the federal government.

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5 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

It is not nice having a racist president.  We all having to deal with it.  You can handle a post.

I guess you're not going to vote for Joe Biden? Third party voter?

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11 minutes ago, whoknew said:

That's an eloquent argument for why an NFL owner or coach may not want Colin Kaepernick protesting.

Now, about the President calling him a son of a #####...

And we heard it all the time in the Kaep thread - the NFL is just like any private business and can terminate an employee for any reason they want (absent civil rights protections). 

The problem with this argument is that neither the NFL office nor the individual teams could suspend or fine Kaep or any other player for silently kneeling during the anthem because it would have violated the CBA. That is why no actual action was taken against Kaep or any other player. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, giantcookie said:

I guess you're not going to vote for Joe Biden? Third party voter?

Keep on trying to get that dog to hunt.  Biden the most popular white politician in the black community.

Edited by Daywalker

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5 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Keep on trying to get that dog to hunt.  Biden the most popular white politician in the black community.

Of course he is. He was endorsed by the NAACP...oh, wait. 
 

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1 minute ago, Cjw_55106 said:

Of course he is. He was endorsed by the NAACP...oh, wait. 
 

Might want to read about the topic.

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1 minute ago, Daywalker said:

Might want to read about the topic.

No need. I know what he said and I know what they responded. Just a lie, but we only call Trump out for that stuff. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Cjw_55106 said:

No need. I know what he said and I know what they responded. Just a lie, but we only call Trump out for that stuff. 

The NAACP, as a non-profit organization, does not endorse candidates, but their individual members and officers are free to do so, and that could be what Biden was referring to. 

In any event, if you are wondering who they might be leaning towards:

NAACP‏ @NAACP 15h15 hours ago

November 3, 2020. #WeAreDoneDying

Edited by squistion
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1 hour ago, mcintyre1 said:

Link to the criminal complaint against the officer

Has some more details that we haven't known about:

  • One of the initial responding officers pulled his gun on him at the start of the encounter. 
  • While Floyd was still breathing, Officer Lane asked if they should roll him on his side, Officer Chauvin refused this request, indicating they should stay in position
  • After Floyd had stop breathing or moving, Lane again asked if they should roll him on his side. Officer Keung then checks his pulse and finds none, indicating this to the other officers. None of the officers move from their positions.

This will end up being the controversial part, and is likely why charges waited:

 

A couple questions:

"As Officer Lane began speaking with Mr. Floyd, he pulled his gun out and pointed it at Mr. Floyd’s open window and directed Mr. Floyd to show his hands."

Why did he pull his gun? Seems like that should be in here, but maybe not since Lane isn't the defendant?

"The defendant went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and Lane and Kueng assisted.  The defendant pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car at 8:19:38 p.m. and Mr. Floyd went to the ground face down and still handcuffed."

So after failing to get him the back of the car on the driver's side because Floyd was saying he's claustrophobic and resisted, they got him in the car from the passenger side...and then took him out? Why take him out?

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4 minutes ago, squistion said:

I am shocked, shocked to hear that. 

That was an interesting take in the comments on that tweet from Mike Tyson.

 

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