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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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3 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Rioting is bad

Police brutality is also bad. 

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6 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

So kneeling is bad.  BLM is bad.  Rioting is bad.

What is the "right" way to protest the execution of black people live on camera with no charges forthcoming?

Yep, whether they want to admit it or not, the people who trashed Kaepernick and didn’t take his protest seriously played a role in the events we’ve seen unfold over the past couple of days. 

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2 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Yep, whether they want to admit it or not, the people who trashed Kaepernick and didn’t take his protest seriously played a role in the events we’ve seen unfold over the past couple of days. 

Yeah we could have had talks then. But it was used to focus on disrespect the flag and sons of #####es. 

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21 minutes ago, shader said:

I don’t think Killer Mike and the mayor of Atlanta are going to fix social unrest by telling people to go vote.

Exactly. The governor and mayor are both Democrats. Republicans have shown almost no interest in correcting racial injustice, Democrats show slightly more interest but it usually amounts to lip service every 4 years when they need votes. Who are these people supposed to vote for then? 

Voting is important but it's not going to change much for this issue. 

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8 hours ago, Courtjester said:

Exactly!! This is an absolute nightmare for Dems at this point. You have a President who has bungled a pandemic and makes gaffe after gaffe and now he gets this absolute gift dropped into his lap. 

God/Alah/Zeus hates the Democrats.

In what way is this a gift for Trump?

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54 minutes ago, SayWhat? said:

Pretty ####### depressing when your five year old daughter picks up enough from what’s going on to say “daddy, I don’t want the fires in Minneapolis and St. Paul to come to __________ (our suburb right next door).  I’m scared.”  

 

 

My kids have similar feelings about Covid, and my wife and I have explained that we can take precautions about it. In the case of these riots, that's a trickier talk, but I'd suggest just talking to her about it, and go from there.

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2 minutes ago, Kal El said:

Police brutality is also bad. 

It’s very bad. Never has a blatant murder by a bad cop been so universally reviled . The peaceful protesters  are done a disservice by the rioters

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8 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Rioting is bad

This is FBG, where rioting is good and Orange Man Bad. :loco:

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50 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

It would be much more depressing if you lived in Minny or St. Paul. Kids there have to be very scared..adults too.

Oh wow, hadn’t thought about that.

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1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

It’s very bad. Never has a blatant murder by a bad cop been so universally reviled . The peaceful protesters  are done a disservice by the rioters

True, but demilitarizing and retraining police would do a lot more to keep riots from getting set off. After all, they seem to happen after a cop oversteps their bounds, seems like changing the common denominator would be the best fix.

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3 minutes ago, Kal El said:

My kids have similar feelings about Covid, and my wife and I have explained that we can take precautions about it. In the case of these riots, that's a trickier talk, but I'd suggest just talking to her about it, and go from there.

Yeah, we’re very open and honest with out kids about all of this, including COVID.  It’s just really ####ty that we’re in 2020 and having to explain racism to our eight year old.

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5 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

In what way is this a gift for Trump?

It’s habbening

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1 minute ago, SayWhat? said:

Yeah, we’re very open and honest with out kids about all of this, including COVID.  It’s just really ####ty that we’re in 2020 and having to explain racism to our eight year old.

It is disheartening.

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1 minute ago, Kal El said:

True, but demilitarizing and retraining police would do a lot more to keep riots from getting set off. After all, they seem to happen after a cop oversteps their bounds, seems like changing the common denominator would be the best fix.

I’ll guess most police in big cities aren’t tied to the communities they work in . There is no connection to the people that live there.  This has to be is a big issue with good and bad cops

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The main problem is the "Blue Wall"   If you have 100 good cops and 10 bad cops on a police force but the 100 good cops won`t do anything to report or curtail the bad cops, then you have 110 bad cops.

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34 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

I’ve heard zero talk about any serious conversations within leadership happening regarding addressing police brutality. Nothing about changing the training of the police force, nothing about implementing rigorous background checks to become a cop, nothing about harshly disciplining officers for EVERY instance of abusing their power, etc.

I mean what are we doing guys? People are getting killed, cities are being burnt down, small businesses are getting destroyed. How is leadership not taking a stand and laying out a plan to address police brutality? If the issue isn’t addressed, the same exact thing is going to happen next year, there will be more riots and we’ll have no one to blame but ourselves.

Our leader is tweeting about how safe he is in his fortress. Instead of delivering healing words, policy, or anything useful during these trying times.

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26 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Rioting is bad

But revolting is good. We celebrate it every July 4th. 

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43 minutes ago, shader said:

The tragic killing in Minneapolis seems like a spark that lit on an unemployed population.  Maybe three months ago they would have gotten angry on twitter but gone to bed because they had work the next day.  When you’re out of work, you have less to lose.

Certainly there are many factors here, but it’s one I feel isn’t talked about enough.

I just want to say I agree with this. It’s a cascading series of unintended consequences. This is happening in the mix of near 20% unemployment and extreme stress.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I just want to say I agree with this. It’s a cascading series of unintended consequences. This is happening in the mix of near 20% unemployment and extreme stress.

Yep.  There’s a reason 20% unemployment is a very bad number and it’s not just because it makes the stock market go down.

Edited by shader
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1 hour ago, SayWhat? said:

Pretty ####### depressing when your five year old daughter picks up enough from what’s going on to say “daddy, I don’t want the fires in Minneapolis and St. Paul to come to __________ (our suburb right next door).  I’m scared.”  

 

 

I had my 12 and 9 year old watch the news a bit last night w/me and my wife. We live in a SW burb. 
 

The 9 year old said ‘dad this isn’t very far away is our neighborhood ok?  What about moms business?’

I think it’s good for them to see this but damn it’s sad when it’s your city. 
 

And it’s even more frustrating when people try to use these situations to make political points. Especially posters in this thread who live here. Not the time but not surprising. 

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Several solidarity protests are planned for today in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale. The Instagram post my daughter sent me about the protest in Coral Gables lists rules, including bring signs, wear white, be united, bring water, no weapons, no violence, wear a mask. Let's hope the rules are followed.

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49 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

So kneeling is bad.  BLM is bad.  Rioting is bad.

What is the "right" way to protest the execution of black people live on camera with no charges forthcoming?

No they did great yesterday, gained tons of sympathizers, keep up the good work 👍

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39 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

In what way is this a gift for Trump?

A person opening up their business is more likely to get arrested in a blue state than somebody looting one. Not like President Trump needed any more gift though, he already has Joe Biden and will win easily.

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3 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

No they did great yesterday, gained tons of sympathizers, keep up the good work 👍

I don't think sympathy is the goal.

Systemic change is...

Im not condoning violence or looting...I still don't understand how it helps.  But I also don't understand how it feels to live where Id fear going for a walk or a run...or fear that my son going out to watch a sunrise or sunset, fearing that someone confronts him and it ends poorly.  If I see bluelights in my rearview mirror my fear is of getting a ticket...not of death.   There have been many peaceful protests over a lot of injustices...and change didn't come.  I may not understand the looting and burning of things...but I understand that there is frustration that boils over when just standing or kneeling gets nothing done over and over again.

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5 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

No they did great yesterday, gained tons of sympathizers, keep up the good work 👍

Did you know there’s no such thing as a single ‘they’ right?  

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8 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

And it’s even more frustrating when people try to use these situations to make political points. Especially posters in this thread who live here. Not the time but not surprising. 

I sympathize, truly. But it's not trying to make political points when one is trying to point out the politics that led to the events.

When the mantra is repeated over and over again that "well peaceful means of change were attempted repeatedly but 'none of you' worked hard enough to change anything" it needs to be pointed out who it was that was responsible to make those changes and failed.  

Right now I'm listening to the Governor, Mayor Frey, and Mayor Carter (Saint Paul) say "we need to make some changes". I'm with you guys...but what's the plan and how is it any different from the plan you've had up to this point?

I think we begin with the idea that law and order must be maintained always -  even if and probably especially when - there are elements of the law and order arm that themselves have allegedly broken the law leading to a breakdown of law and order. But I'm open to ideas that a 48 year old white male suburbanite can implement.

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10 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

No they did great yesterday, gained tons of sympathizers, keep up the good work 👍

 

4 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

Did you know there’s no such thing as a single ‘they’ right?  

Yeah, they're finding that many (maybe even most) of the vandals and thieves that are tearing up the neighborhoods are actually NOT from those neighborhoods. 

It's pretty clear that, like most people on both sides here have said, that there's a group of protesters and a group of criminals - and they're two absolutely distinct groups. 

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48 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

I’ll guess most police in big cities aren’t tied to the communities they work in . There is no connection to the people that live there.  This has to be is a big issue with good and bad cops

Then everyone needs retraining.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I sympathize, truly. But it's not trying to make political points when one is trying to point out the politics that led to the events.

When the mantra is repeated over and over again that "well peaceful means of change were attempted repeatedly but 'none of you' worked hard enough to change anything" it needs to be pointed out who it was that was responsible to make those changes and failed.  

Right now I'm listening to the Governor, Mayor Frey, and Mayor Carter (Saint Paul) say "we need to make some changes". I'm with you guys...but what's the plan and how is it any different from the plan you've had up to this point?

I think we begin with the idea that law and order must be maintained always -  even if and probably especially when - there are elements of the law and order arm that themselves have allegedly broken the law leading to a breakdown of law and order. But I'm open to ideas that a 48 year old white male suburbanite can implement.

I’m on the same page with you. But there are people in this thread who apparently want to governor Walz to put on a Superman cape and fly down into the middle of the rioters and stop them immediately. 
 

The DFL seems to have failed inner cities for a long time and I’m sympathetic to the idea that maybe more than lipservice needs to go towards solving these systemic issues. As a business owner I’m also extremely sympathetic to the people who are losing their livelihoods due to the rioters and arsonist who have no concern for the actual underlying challenges they’re just using this as an opportunity to cause destruction and steal property.

But, entire communities don’t react like this just because they’re bad communities. We have to wrestle with the fact that they have been dealing with generations of inequality and lack of ability to create long-term wealth and educational legacies. It’s easy to look at people who look and act differently than us and think that they have a different set of rules that they abide by but one of the greatest lessons I’ve ever learned is that for the most part, people are people and we all react similarly to different stressors, incentives and can become conditioned over time. We need to not only listen to the protesters but also seek to understand why a portion of the community thinks that rioting and looting is OK. Some of them are just opportunist but there’s also a pretty significant built up anger that I think many of us white suburban guys simply have never taken the time to try to understand before.

Edited by mr roboto
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The wife of Derek Chauvin, Kellie Chauvin is the sister of Tao Thao. Is her filing for divorce a money play?

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Guess all that anger, teeth gnashing and pulling of hair of Kaepernicks kneeling seems kind of silly now....doesn't it?  I think we'd all agree that peaceful, respectful kneeling for a couple of seconds on a Sun. afternoon beats this...wouldn't we?

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They're estimating that 80% of rioters in Minneapolis are from out of town. How far out (different MN city?, different state?), they didn't say. 

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22 hours ago, Challenge Everything said:

- 1773 - Boston Tea Party = taxation bad... no representation... government won't listen... we riot

- 1786 - Shay's Rebellion = taxation bad... commerce taxes bad... economic injustice bad... civil rights injustice bad... we riot

- 1786 - Paper Money Riot = war good... debt bad... stimulate economy print money good... we riot

- 1791-1794 - Whiskey Rebellion = taxation bad... government overreach bad... American nationalism good... we riot

- 1831 - Nat Turner's Slave Rebellion = state execution of slaves good... murders of slaves good... prohibit education of slaves good... government oppression good (as in tyranny against black / lower class people)

- 1837 - Murder of Elijah Lovejoy = pro-slavery good... abolitionist bad... we riot

- 1859 - John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry = slave revolt bad... Marines shutting down riot good... civil war precursor bad?

- 1861-1865 American Civil War = still being fought today bad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States

I'll let each of you decide where you fall with the above however, once again, when there is injustice to the citizenry, or government overreach, or civil injustice, somehow, depending on which side you fall, rioting it good. When you happen to be on the side that is doing the injustices, rioting is bad, equality is bad. It is difficult, imo, to argue that the Boston Tea Party was bad... or Shay's Rebellion was bad... or the Paper Money Riot was bad... or the Whiskey Rebellion was bad... or Nat Turner's Rebellion was bad... or the John Brown's raid was bad... or the Civil War was bad... but I implore anyone to argue that either of these riots, overall, was a bad thing that happened.

Anyone want to argue that the Murder of Elijah Lovejoy was good or any of the above were bad? Please do so.

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2 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

They're estimating that 80% of rioters in Minneapolis are from out of town. How far out (different MN city?, different state?), they didn't say. 

This wouldn’t surprise me. That community around Lake Street is impoverished but there’s also a fairly vibrant business scene and I wouldn’t expect community members to want to burn down their business district.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

Guess all that anger, teeth gnashing and pulling of hair of Kaepernicks kneeling seems kind of silly now....doesn't it?  I think we'd all agree that peaceful, respectful kneeling for a couple of seconds on a Sun. afternoon beats this...wouldn't we?

I never cared who kneeled but how did that kneeling protest work out for Mr. Floyd? During that time people were still getting beat and shot by police as nothing changed.  People can kneel all they want on TV as that is the easy part.  The hard part is on the actual streets.  Kneeling does nothing to prevent what happens in the streets every day.

Edited by Summer Wheat
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I wonder how much different the last few nights would have gone if a true grass roots movement would have been allowed to take place without the influence of agitators like ANTIFA and others. 

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3 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

They're estimating that 80% of rioters in Minneapolis are from out of town. How far out (different MN city?, different state?), they didn't say. 

The St. Paul mayor just said that everyone arrested in his city last night was from out of state.

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Also, if any of you who are complaining about the physical violence and looting  but saying protesting is OK, I sure hope if we go through your posting history that you were in favor of the kneeling at NFL games and other types of nonviolent protest that tried to draw attention to the discrepancies in policing between white and black communities.

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Is Trump trying to get his supporters to clash with the protesters? What’s up with the “MAGA night” tweet?

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2 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

For all I hate about him, I’ll admit he’s good at dividing and firing people up. How is he going to use lawlessness, property damage, looting, etc to fire up a group? Well, he’s going to claim anger about the media, he’s going to say that this was all actions by the Democrats and their followers, and he’s going to fire his base up. CV19 won’t even be on the agenda if this keeps up. I can keep going, but hopefully you get the idea.

The fact that some people don’t see how he’ll use it just speaks to how good he is at this stuff. That’s not a dig at any of them, sadly he’s a master at this stuff :kicksrock:

Not sure this plays well outside of his base.

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1 minute ago, mr roboto said:

Also, if any of you who are complaining about the physical violence and looting  but saying protesting is OK, I sure hope if we go through your posting history that you were in favor of the kneeling at NFL games and other types of nonviolent protest that tried to draw attention to the discrepancies in policing between white and black communities.

Also, how many posters or others not on the boards or even commentators have said they will revolt, riot, call to arms, this November if Trump loses, or elections are in question, or things don't go their way. It's all okay when the shoe is on the other foot.

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2 minutes ago, caustic said:

The St. Paul mayor just said that everyone arrested in his city last night was from out of state.

Saw a lot of internet rumors that these people had their bail paid for them and a lawyer already lined up for everyone arrested. 

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9 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

They're estimating that 80% of rioters in Minneapolis are from out of town. How far out (different MN city?, different state?), they didn't say. 

What do they base this on?  If you have tangible data, like cellphone pings or something, I'll listen, if its well over the baseline I'll entertain it

And if it IS outsiders, then all the more reason to protect your damn city... this is some of most namby pamby nonsense leadership I've ever seen, the Minny Mayor is your introduction to Milienal leadership

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2 minutes ago, Challenge Everything said:

Also, how many posters or others not on the boards or even commentators have said they will revolt, riot, call to arms, this November if Trump loses, or elections are in question, or things don't go their way. It's all okay when the shoe is on the other foot.

Posters here have said that?

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2 minutes ago, Challenge Everything said:

Also, how many posters or others not on the boards or even commentators have said they will revolt, riot, call to arms, this November if Trump loses, or elections are in question, or things don't go their way. It's all okay when the shoe is on the other foot.

Yup.  

I remember the 2016 rhetoric on Facebook.... "If She Wins....We Revolt" with pictures of armed people and such.  

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7 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

Also, if any of you who are complaining about the physical violence and looting  but saying protesting is OK, I sure hope if we go through your posting history that you were in favor of the kneeling at NFL games and other types of nonviolent protest that tried to draw attention to the discrepancies in policing between white and black communities.

That actually would be somebody like me, but even if I had been mad about Kaepernick protesting, that wouldn't disqualify me from saying political protest on public grounds is a fundamental right whereas Kaepernick exercised his actions in a private market, albeit in a public setting. It's such a huge difference that I can't believe the obtuseness that goes into writing something like that.

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1 hour ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

So kneeling is bad.  BLM is bad.  Rioting is bad.

What is the "right" way to protest the execution of black people live on camera with no charges forthcoming?

Don't disturb the military, the anthem, traffic, tv viewers, church goers, weapon purchasers or any one, really. In fact if you could protest so no one notices or cares, that would be appreciated. TIA

:sarcasm:

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Everyone seems connected in this murder . Floyd/Chauvin worked in the same club , Thao stands around ho-hum as his brother in-law kills Floyd 

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