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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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1 hour ago, Trey said:

This is a prime example of why it is so hard to follow stories via social media these days. I’ve read everything from Antifa to white supremecists to undercover cops are getting involved in this chaos.

would love some clarity from officials. 

I was at the Portland protest last night.  Started at Peninsula Park where thousands showed up to listen to speakers and show support. Pastors, community leaders, every day citizens got up to speak. Lasted about 3 hours and then the march towards downtown started. You could see the antifa folks at the park surrounding the park and showing their presence. I didn’t see much participation from them showing support, they were just there.

They are the ones who started the destruction, tagging, and damage as the protest started to march down MLK avenue towards downtown. 

They are anarchists. They hate the current power system. Yes, they hate nazis and white supremacy which I appreciate, but they are destructive and they should no way be aligned with democrats/liberals/progressives. They look for any reason to stir up #### and be destructive.

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Thanks for making an argument. 
I’m not OK with any of it. I’m not OK with wrongful actions period. What I’m OK with is the media focusing on stories that represent a greater pattern of events. IMO that is their proper function. 

I understand but the media never paints the big picture or tells the whole stories.  About 10 years ago there was car chase in Detroit on live TV.  News helicopter was following the whole thing.  It went on through neighborhoods, then onto the Lodge freeway with 5 police cars in pursuit.  The guy finally lost control, bailed and started running with 7- 8 cops chasing.  When one police officer tackled him the other came flying in with clubs, punches and kicks and laid a beating on this guy more vicious than Rodney King got., while some bystanders were yelling "kick his ###" They had to call an ambulance.  All this while the helicopter was filming.

The next day there was hardly anything reported on local news about it, zero national news and you know why.  It was a black perp and all black cops. So the media did not care..it was not news, not a big story.  But these things happen all the time.

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10 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I also don’t think the Tea Party is a good comparison. It would be if one corporation owned every building and business in Minneapolis, and if that corporation was quasi-governmental. But since none of that is the case the analogy is flawed IMO. 

It doesn't have to be a good comparison to answer your question. Your question was: 

2 hours ago, timschochet said:

You burn down some small business: a nail salon, an insurance office, a dry cleaners: how is that fighting against government oppression? 

By looking for differences regarding what specifically was destroyed, you've already passed the question's answer that destruction of private property is how fighting against government oppression has occurred in the past.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

I also don’t think the Tea Party is a good comparison. It would be if one corporation owned every building and business in Minneapolis, and if that corporation was quasi-governmental. But since none of that is the case the analogy is flawed IMO. 

My memory of much of revolutionary war history has faded quite a bit, but wasnt the tea party mostly inconsequential and disliked by many of the leaders of the day?

It took an overreaction from the british to make it the historically significant act that we view it as. 

Which is such a weird parallel. So are people that are trying to compare this to the boston tea party hoping for protesters to get mowed down and then for there to be a war?  

 

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10 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

I was at the Portland protest last night.  Started at Peninsula Park where thousands showed up to listen to speakers and show support. Pastors, community leaders, every day citizens got up to speak. Lasted about 3 hours and then the march towards downtown started. You could see the antifa folks at the park surrounding the park and showing their presence. I didn’t see much participation from them showing support, they were just there.

They are the ones who started the destruction, tagging, and damage as the protest started to march down MLK avenue towards downtown. 

They are anarchists. They hate the current power system. Yes, they hate nazis and white supremacy which I appreciate, but they are destructive and they should no way be aligned with democrats/liberals/progressives. They look for any reason to stir up #### and be destructive.

It is true Anifta is associated with liberals and labeled as a liberal hate group when in fact they hate everything.

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20 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

I was at the Portland protest last night.  Started at Peninsula Park where thousands showed up to listen to speakers and show support. Pastors, community leaders, every day citizens got up to speak. Lasted about 3 hours and then the march towards downtown started. You could see the antifa folks at the park surrounding the park and showing their presence. I didn’t see much participation from them showing support, they were just there.

They are the ones who started the destruction, tagging, and damage as the protest started to march down MLK avenue towards downtown. 

They are anarchists. They hate the current power system. Yes, they hate nazis and white supremacy which I appreciate, but they are destructive and they should no way be aligned with democrats/liberals/progressives. They look for any reason to stir up #### and be destructive.

That's what ive been posting for two days now.

Also, lets not forget

https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/unmasking-antifa-anti-fascists-hard-left/index.html

which was originally titled Activists seek peace through violence.. lol.

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Been enough bad news, so hadn’t watched the video until today. NYT did a breakdown using all known video recorded on the scene. Who would leave their knee on the neck of an unresponsive man? Outrageous. Worse than I’d expected. That cop had a good 5 minutes where he could have decided to lay off. He deserves everything coming to him. 

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

I’m not uncomfortable at all about the conversation. But it’s wrong. 

The reason that black cops killing blacks and white cops killing whites and black cops killing whites are rarely covered is because they’re not part of the systemic racism that exists in this country. The media didn’t create that racism nor do they hype it up. They report it, and the anguish and anger that follows, because it exists. 

I’m way more jaded that you brother, but I think it’s because those stories drive traffic.

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For some of my friends, I feel like the old Tony Campolo line speaking to a church audience. (and yeah, I'm circumventing the filter)

I've got three things to say:

1. A cop choked a man to death in Minneapolis this week.

2. Some of you don't really give a s###.

3. Worse, some of you are more upset I said "s###" than you are about the man being choked to death. 

 

I wrote this today and linked to President Obama's post https://www.obama.org/updates/this-shouldnt-be-normal/

On one hand, the internet and social media don't need my one more thought on this. On the other, how does anything change if people stay silent?

I talk a lot about "Empathy" and "We're all in this together". Both of those apply here.

I'll never fully and completely understand what my Black friends go through and have gone through. What I can do is show empathy. To at least try to understand. What I can do is listen to them. And listen to others who are exposing parts of our world people of my race and people who live in my neighborhood may minimize. Or even ignore.

We can't ignore this if we truly believe the second thing - "We're all in this together". Let's be clear - I don't mean "All of us that I like and that look like me and think like me and won't challenge me are all in this together." I mean all of us. In the South, we say "Y'all means all". That has to be the case here too.

So if we're going to practice empathy, we'll see the news of a man killed in Minneapolis hits some of us "all" in a different and more profound way. And that matters a lot. Ram Dass said, "We're all just walking each other home at night". I believe that to be true.

To my Black friends and People Of Color, in whatever this may look like, I'm with you. We're with you. Praying for peace and grace and strength and courage and wisdom to move forward here and make a change. Please God, we can't let this be normal.

 

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3 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

From the Star Tribune:
"Shaken by another night of chaos, Gov. Tim Walz will fully mobilize the National Guard to combat what he called a “tightly controlled” group of outside agitators who have turned city streets into scenes of looting and arson."

Interesting. Does that imply that they know who is behind these outside agitators? I wonder who that could be (no really, I'm don't know and am not speculating at all). 

Antifa? 🤷‍♂️

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47 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I apologize in advance because I’m uninformed guy here - what’s the story with the events surrounding the death? I know Flyd was wanted for passing a $20 counterfeit bill. Did he struggle or fight at all during the course of the arrest? Was he arrested on the spot where he tried to pass the bill or was he tracked down later? Frankly the video and the aftermath have been so disturbing I’ve largely avoided the details of it. Anyway, TIA.

This WP article has a good reconstruction video using the footage available from security cams, body cams, cellphones, etc. 

The death of George Floyd: What video and other records show about his final minutes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/30/video-timeline-george-floyd-death/?arc404=true

I'm pretty sure they are giving free access due to Covid-19, but If you (or anyone else) can't view it let me know and I'll try to post just the video itself.

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This is ####ed up
 

https://mobile.twitter.com/AsiaJannelll/status/1266626927885873152

Asia

@AsiaJannelll

I was at Downtown Oakland protests a little while ago. Let me say something; the people breaking glass, breaking into windows & starting fires were WHITE men wearing all black. They had hammers and walkie talkies. They were organized. BLM protestors did not start the violence!

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Just now, Andy Dufresne said:

Gotta be ANTIFA, no?

dishonest media will try to spin it as white nationalists, but its antifa.

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1 minute ago, giantcookie said:

dishonest media will try to spin it as white nationalists, but its antifa.

Does it make a difference? 

Right wing extremists, left wing extremists- it’s the extremist part that’s the bad part. That’s the part that’s ####### things up. Right or left doesn’t matter. 

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Posted (edited)

It was linked early on in the thread, but this video of a guy ("the penguin") breaking out the windows of the AutoZone across the street from the police precinct that burned down (on Wednesday before any looting started) should be seen if you haven't done so already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evjkVfJ7HY

There was speculation early on that the guy was MPD, but I think we would have heard more about it by now if that were the case. ANTIFA seems at least worthy of discussion given what we know now.

My first exposure to ANTIFA came after Charlottesville when I heard them described as anti-Nazi. I fully support that idea of course, but a year or so later when they assaulted journalist Andy Ngo and a bunch of other people (there's a thread about it somewhere, but here's a link: https://reason.com/2019/06/29/antifa-andy-ngo-mob-milkshake-violence/) my support dropped to zero. I'm not a fan of Mr. Ng, but violence like that is totally unacceptable, no matter what the "cause". 

I'm not a fan of the Democratic Party, but I'm a fairly staunch lefty and have been vociferous and adamant about "my side" not adopting the same tactics of those I oppose. You could see a lot of mis/disinformation tactics being used during the Democratic primary which was really disheartening but totally predictable. "The end justifies the means" is the slipperiest of slopes and how we ended up with Trump. If the left adopts the same ideology then the distinction becomes meaningless in my opinion and I'm out.

Edited by Stuart_Little
Ngo not Ng

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24 minutes ago, Stuart_Little said:

This WP article has a good reconstruction video using the footage available from security cams, body cams, cellphones, etc. 

The death of George Floyd: What video and other records show about his final minutes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/30/video-timeline-george-floyd-death/?arc404=true

I'm pretty sure they are giving free access due to Covid-19, but If you (or anyone else) can't view it let me know and I'll try to post just the video itself.

Thank you, I got it.

This is really thorough. It's really strange. The POs on duty who answered the call seemed to have it under control. They arrested Floyd, put him in the back seat and I guess they were investigating at the store. There was already a second car with 2 more cops, 2 cars, 4 cops altogether on scene. Then Chauvin and his partner show up. Chauvin takes him out the back seat, on the other, street side, and then pins him. 

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

how does anything change if people stay silent?

 

HI JB, 

I never post in the political forum but HT directed me here and I just want to say I agree with a lot of what you posted but I wanted to zero in on this one sentence. 

That's the question I keep asking whenever people seem outraged about the looting and not the officer or the continued cycle. This is not the first time we've seen this, right? There was one summer back in the last Administration where we had an entire summer of violence. I vividly remember Dallas and watching men with assault rifles shooting at police but this is different. I agree with your assessment of the police here, nobody can watch that video and not throw up and want to see the immediate arrest of all 4 of those officers. In fact it goes deeper than that, how come nobody could step in during those 7 minutes?

I would like to say some things about the local government there in Minneapolis but again that would just fuel the flames and upset a lot of posters in here so out of respect I will stop right here. I'd love to hear what you think should be happening right now in Minneapolis because IMO the sounds I am hearing from those leaders today feels more like a showdown tonight. I hope I'm wrong and I hope sounder minds prevail tonight but I don't for one second think that the violent backlash should be so shocking to folks. If you can't get past the looting, you have no heart IMHO. 

I think I'll end on that,

Cheers Everyone and please be safe in those larger Metro Areas, you're in real danger. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Does it make a difference? 

Right wing extremists, left wing extremists- it’s the extremist part that’s the bad part. That’s the part that’s ####### things up. Right or left doesn’t matter. 

Right. Extremists on both sides are the problem.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Does it make a difference? 

Right wing extremists, left wing extremists- it’s the extremist part that’s the bad part. That’s the part that’s ####### things up. Right or left doesn’t matter. 

it matters because CNN has given them fluff pieces in the past, and said nothing critical while they reigned terror upon Trump supporters.

Edited by giantcookie
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Just now, giantcookie said:

it matters because CNN has given them fluff pieces in the past, and said nothing while they reigned terror upon Trump supporters.

CNN has written fluff pieces about Antifa? 
forgive me but I have my doubts. 

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20 minutes ago, John Blutarsky said:

Joe...stop with this nonsense that we don’t care about what happened. 

I said "some". 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

CNN has written fluff pieces about Antifa? 
forgive me but I have my doubts. 

 they wrote an article "peace through violence" to describe antifa, made their cause sound noble. Google it

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6 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

HI JB, 

I never post in the political forum but HT directed me here and I just want to say I agree with a lot of what you posted but I wanted to zero in on this one sentence. 

That's the question I keep asking whenever people seem outraged about the looting and not the officer or the continued cycle. This is not the first time we've seen this, right? There was one summer back in the last Administration where we had an entire summer of violence. I vividly remember Dallas and watching men with assault rifles shooting at police but this is different. I agree with your assessment of the police here, nobody can watch that video and not throw up and want to see the immediate arrest of all 4 of those officers. In fact it goes deeper than that, how come nobody could step in during those 7 minutes?

I would like to say some things about the local government there in Minneapolis but again that would just fuel the flames and upset a lot of posters in here so out of respect I will stop right here. I'd love to hear what you think should be happening right now in Minneapolis because IMO the sounds I am hearing from those leaders today feels more like a showdown tonight. I hope I'm wrong and I hope sounder minds prevail tonight but I don't for one second think that the violent backlash should be so shocking to White folks. If you can't get past the looting, you have no heart IMHO. 

I think I'll end on that,

Cheers Everyone and please be safe in those larger Metro Areas, you're in real danger. 

Thanks. Not sure what you're asking me. But I absolutely don't want violence in a response. I dont want a "showdown". I understand the violence and anger. I understand how people do things that seem irrational when they're at the end of their rope or they feel like they don't have hope. But my hope is we can have change without violence. 

 

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Denver declaring 8pm curfew next two nights...nat'l guard on call....mayor/police chief speaking publicly from capitol bldg steps...explicit support for protestors and denouncement of agitators. Wouldn't expect any further violence.

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25 minutes ago, John Blutarsky said:

Joe...stop with this nonsense that we don’t care about what happened. 

Good posting. Where are the posts saying no one cares?  Good grief.  

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I haven't watched CNN since I was overseas years ago, but demonization of them by the right is ridiculous. I'd agree that commercialized media in general sucks and is overly sensational because that's what gets eyeballs/clicks, but they have nowhere near the same size audience and influence of, say Fox News, nor have they adopted blatant disinformation and conspiracy theorizing as a business model. It's not even debatable, but if anyone wants to out themselves as being grossly misinformed knock yourself out but let's do it in another thread.

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3 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Good posting. Where are the posts saying no one cares?  Good grief.  

I said "some".

It's my opinion some people don't really care that much. It doesn't affect them. 

Tony Campolo originally used this in the situation of children starving. He said "30,000 kids died in the world yesterday from malnutrition. And some of you don't really care".

They care some. Just not enough to do anything really. That's how I see this for some people I know. That's why I said, "For some of my friends..."

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8 minutes ago, giantcookie said:

 they wrote an article "peace through violence" to describe antifa, made their cause sound noble. Google it

This is the story. The headline is different because it was edited after reaction. What's the noble part here in your opinion?

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26 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

the people breaking glass, breaking into windows & starting fires were WHITE men wearing all black. They had hammers and walkie talkies.

If this is true I'm not sure the investigation of this will end where you think it ends.

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I said "some".

It's my opinion some people don't really care that much. It doesn't affect them. 

Tony Campolo originally used this in the situation of children starving. He said "30,000 kids died in the world yesterday from malnutrition. And some of you don't really care".

They care some. Just not enough to do anything really. That's how I see this for some people I know. That's why I said, "For some of my friends..."

My bad. I thought when you said you had something to say and posted in this thread “Some of you really dont give a ####” I thought you were speaking to people in this thread.  

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3 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

If this is true I'm not sure the investigation of this will end where you think it ends.

Where do you feel it ends?

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Just now, jm192 said:

Where do you feel it ends?

I don't know, but Antifa isn't the only conceivable agent provacateur using just 'whites wearing all black' as a criteria. Far right nationalists, white nationalists and supremacists should also be considered.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I don't know, but Antifa isn't the only conceivable agent provacateur using just 'whites wearing all black' as a criteria. Far right nationalists, white nationalists and supremacists should also be considered.

Nothing really is off the table but I seriously doubt it would be local law , feds wouldn’t surprise if it was the “good guys” . Even hired guns

Edited by HellToupee

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8 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

I said "some".

It's my opinion some people don't really care that much. It doesn't affect them. 

Tony Campolo originally used this in the situation of children starving. He said "30,000 kids died in the world yesterday from malnutrition. And some of you don't really care".

They care some. Just not enough to do anything really. That's how I see this for some people I know. That's why I said, "For some of my friends..."

Is this not the reality of social causes? They compete for mind space and resources and both are limited.

"Some" people may care passionately about one that affects them deeply and directly...but not other causes that to which they aren't as close. Not sure they should be judged harshly for that.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This is the story. The headline is different because it was edited after reaction. What's the noble part here in your opinion?

you think if this article was about a far right wing group they would have ended it like this?

Quote

And their methods are often violent. Antifa leaders admit they're willing to physically attack anyone who employs violence against them or who condones racism -- as long as force is used in the name of eradicating hatred.

 

Edited by giantcookie

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thanks. Not sure what you're asking me. But I absolutely don't want violence in a response. I dont want a "showdown". I understand the violence and anger. I understand how people do things that seem irrational when they're at the end of their rope or they feel like they don't have hope. But my hope is we can have change without violence. 

 

What I heard today in the last couple of hours were things like "Protest on Social Media" and you don't think change is ever going to come about by staying home, do you? 

-I think people should bust that curfew tonight HOWEVER, it would be better if they marched arm in arm, all races, all parties locked together and just peacefully but loudly march in protest. But what was rolled out today sounded like more of an escalation if you will for the coming evening.  

-I think it's great you as the Owner and Leader to set the pace in here. How about healing this place up? 

It seems obvious at this point that this place has a far larger population of Democrats vs Republicans, don't you see a little of what we're talking about and watching unfold in our major Urban Cities, doesn't some of that happen on a smaller level in here? What would happen if the folks who support the guy in the White House just vanished completely off the boards? You need both sides to have discussions and meaningful debates. 

 

Real Question: Are you anticipating another night of violence? The guy running the show loves TV, tonight is Sat Night, not sure if LIVE PD is running but it wasn't last night. I expect that he will sit back one more night and see how things play out. I would anticipate more eruptions in the bigger cities. 40+Million out of work with nothing but time on their hands. I'm not sure people are truly understanding how stressed out these folks are and this Murder has been the spark on a powder keg of frustration where people are being pitted against each other over things like masks for example. 

Maybe some of my fellow FBGs can cut Joe and the Mods a little slack and not hit the Report Button every 5 seconds, they're human too and probably have had the same crud going on in parts of their lives just like ours. I wish this Board could come together and not argue and fight amongst themselves so much, find the things we have in common more so than all our differences at the moment, that would be one of the better things we could do coming out of all this. 

 

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1 minute ago, Ministry of Pain said:

What I heard today in the last couple of hours were things like "Protest on Social Media" and you don't think change is ever going to come about by staying home, do you? 

-I think people should bust that curfew tonight HOWEVER, it would be better if they marched arm in arm, all races, all parties locked together and just peacefully but loudly march in protest. But what was rolled out today sounded like more of an escalation if you will for the coming evening.  

-I think it's great you as the Owner and Leader to set the pace in here. How about healing this place up? 

It seems obvious at this point that this place has a far larger population of Democrats vs Republicans, don't you see a little of what we're talking about and watching unfold in our major Urban Cities, doesn't some of that happen on a smaller level in here? What would happen if the folks who support the guy in the White House just vanished completely off the boards? You need both sides to have discussions and meaningful debates. 

 

Real Question: Are you anticipating another night of violence? The guy running the show loves TV, tonight is Sat Night, not sure if LIVE PD is running but it wasn't last night. I expect that he will sit back one more night and see how things play out. I would anticipate more eruptions in the bigger cities. 40+Million out of work with nothing but time on their hands. I'm not sure people are truly understanding how stressed out these folks are and this Murder has been the spark on a powder keg of frustration where people are being pitted against each other over things like masks for example. 

Maybe some of my fellow FBGs can cut Joe and the Mods a little slack and not hit the Report Button every 5 seconds, they're human too and probably have had the same crud going on in parts of their lives just like ours. I wish this Board could come together and not argue and fight amongst themselves so much, find the things we have in common more so than all our differences at the moment, that would be one of the better things we could do coming out of all this. 

 

Thanks. I don't really know what to expect tonight. I'm truly not following the news that closely. But I'm always thankful for anyone who wants to cut us some slack. Thank you. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sam Quentin said:

Hey let’s just randomly place this pallet of bricks by the courthouse 

https://mobile.twitter.com/theangiestanton/status/1266632882862403585

Angela Stanton King 

@theangiestanton

People are waking up! This young man says these bricks were conveniently stacked on the sidewalk for them to use! What’s going on here?! #SetUp #GeorgeFloyd

 

Maybe instead of this being a liberal conspiracy, you could accept that our “law and order President” has promoted a culture where anyone downtrodden is a loser that needs to pick themselves up by the bootstraps, and where winners can use any amount of force or leverage to flex their advantage against them (minorities.) He is way more responsible for discord than some imaginary conspiracy of liberals.

Edited by Mr. Ham
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17 minutes ago, giantcookie said:

you think if this article was about a far right wing group they would have ended it like this?

Yes, if they were paraphrasing them directly as was the case here. That was the position articulated by the Antifa leaders to the writers of the article, it was not an editorial comment by CNN - that they agreed that Antifa was eradicating hatred. Please.

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We’re about a half mile from the nearest (thus far) fires, looting, and riots.  One of my wife’s good friends lives right in the heart of the chaos, and my wife is currently meeting up to deliver some necessities (water, fire extinguishers, etc).  Also bringing l lots of her friend’s keepsakes and valuables back to our place for safe(r) keeping, as their neighborhood is expecting more chaos and potential for residential fires tonight.  She’s also saying there is a staggering amount of vehicles with out of state plates on and around their neighborhood.  I know it’s a delicate line to straddle right now, but time for law enforcement to start laying the smack down on those that are looting and rioting.  

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

Yes, if they were paraphrasing them directly as was the case here. That was the position articulated by the Antifa leaders to the writers of the article, it was not an editorial comment by CNN - that they agreed that Antifa was eradicating hatred. Please.

Why give them a platform to spread their propaganda without any objective criticism to counter it?  Its a fluff piece

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Posted (edited)

Pretty big protests in Austin today, where COVID cases are on the rise. We don’t have a large Black population, but a good sized Latino one. Quick look at pictures, and it appears almost exclusively White/Latino. Leads me to think the divide in this country is less racial, than political. Some of us believe in empathy and compassion, despite where someone exist on a socio-economic ladder. But that has become a wedge issue in an election year. Dog whistles abound. 

Edited by Mr. Ham
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