PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
The rioters and the instigators want that. I won’t allow it. You shouldn’t either.
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Another killing at the hands of the Police (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter In The Zone
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
I don't like the idea personally but if police departments want to steer clear of the race card being used with every white/black encounter between officers/civilians yes it does make logical sense
Do you agree when I say if this was 4 black officers and Floyd and it all happening exactly the same way , this wouldn't be news at all - right ?
Yeah, gotta say JShare, this is a pretty disturbing take. Innocent business owners being beaten defending their property, in what appears to be a peaceful manor, isn’t going to be the impetus to change. That you’re “not sure” if that’s the answer for change is scary. What happened to the business owners is indeed awful, and so is what happened to George Floyd. One atrocity doesn’t excuse or justify another. And one isn’t going to be the answer for the other.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
This isn’t the answer and doesn’t solve the root issue. We need more integration and interaction to solve these problems. Not less.
but i do agree there is a problem with people white or black policing neighborhoods they don’t live in or aren’t a part of. That’s when bias’ take over your decision making. An officer may think twice pulling the trigger or kneeling on a mans neck who’s kid goes to the same daycare as his or who he sees with his family every week at the supermarket.
more interaction will help but it takes a while and tbh many people resist the programs that were built to help promote this.
whoknew
Footballguy
1. I very much disagree. When cops murder someone in custody, its always going to be news.
2. As to your first paragraph, if they want to "steer clear of the race card being used," they could just stop being racist. Separate but equal is a horrific idea that was thrown out in 1954.
Skoo
Footballguy
No, I stated that calling people “animals” and “subhuman” was disgusting.
You really thought THAT was the disgusting part of his post?
Yikes.
I did wake up in 2020, right?
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
But that wasn’t the intent of these protests. And despite what you see on the news the large majority of the protests were and have been peaceful.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
OK but last month, the last 3 months, the last 12 months .... 99.99 % of interactions between police and citizens with different races/skin colors have went very well
that's not enough though, in 0.01% like this one, it sparks a nation wide outrage when in reality, police do exceptionally well and its still not enough so what are we going to do ?
people naturally segregate
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I'm sad that that's what you guys chose to extract from that post.
I'm not "playing down" anything. The MPD clearly has a problem. I've not said otherwise.
I'm simply pointing out that at the same time day in, day out our police forces as a collective whole do a lot of difficult and dangerous work to keep our communities safe. Minneapolis has 800+ sworn officers that enforce law and order in a city of 437k people. I'm glad they did such a great job the last few nights.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
people naturally segregate
I guess my response to those thoughts are accept that police are 99.9% really good and 0.1% of the time, something goes wrong and accept that % rate and go on
to expect 100% isn't realistic
same questions I've asked above - if this were 4 black cops and they did the same to Floyd, would it be news? You and I know it wouldn't be - agreed ?
whoknew
Footballguy
I don't know where you are getting your percentages. How do you know that? Why are you saying 99.9% of interactions are ok?
Gawain
Footballguy
https://time.com/4404987/police-violence/
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?_r=0
Left, Right and Middle all agree there are too many people killed by the police. A movement based on changing the nature of policing has legs. Whatever we see on CNN/MSNBC/FOX is just a travesty.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
From past readings on the interactions of police and civilians - its exceptional, in fact so high that the numbers really are astounding at literally the tens of thousands of interactions every day between police and civilians from traffic tickets to being called out to investigate things to simply filing a report
shader
Footballguy
The looting and destruction of property is probably a result of the current financial situation and uncertainty. You get the feeling the protestors are definitely angry about Floyd, but there’s also a heavy anti-establishment vibe that this is turning into.
Undercurrents of this anger have been on social media for years. The 1%, the rich vs poor. The people vs the establishment.
Now when you throw in a brutal killing and rampant unemployment, I can see why the looting happens. I can see why they deface Rodeo. These are symbols of the elite part of the country that many of these young protesters (white and black) are not a part of. And when they find themselves out of work with a lot of economic uncertainty ahead, their position is more understandable.
This level of massive unemployment will have consequences. In this case the consequences seem to be an amplification of what started as a peaceful thing
Undercurrents of this anger have been on social media for years. The 1%, the rich vs poor. The people vs the establishment.
Now when you throw in a brutal killing and rampant unemployment, I can see why the looting happens. I can see why they deface Rodeo. These are symbols of the elite part of the country that many of these young protesters (white and black) are not a part of. And when they find themselves out of work with a lot of economic uncertainty ahead, their position is more understandable.
This level of massive unemployment will have consequences. In this case the consequences seem to be an amplification of what started as a peaceful thing
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Have they though? Also this is a bit much more than one incident this is injustices that have been happening for a long long time.
and i don’t think people naturally segregate. There is a lot of history in this country of redlining and people purposefully segregating folks. And slavery. And segregation. By law. That wasn’t that long ago.
Or we could realize that we're all humans, and while there are definite cultural differences that we're often unfamiliar with, we should be making this world a bit better for everyone involved. Separating LEOs to take care of neighborhoods by race is a huge step in the wrong direction, and will make the problem worse, not better. We are all equal, and we should treat each other as such. I'm reminded of that kids song from Sunday School: "Red and yellow, black and white, we are precious in His sight." I'm beyond sick of the hatred and the violence, it's time to change. If that means radically altering the way police are trained, so they're not conditioned to kneel on the neck of a man who had a bad $20 bill, so be it! George Floyd did nothing worthy of death at the hands of a punk with a badge. Fix the system!
Gawain
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
I don't understand the point you are making. I wasn't saying that there are a high percentage of cop murders. Just pushing back on stealthy's claim that 99.9% of cop interactions go "very well."
Gawain
Footballguy
The definition of "very well" is nebulous, Just pointing out that in Houston over the years studied, at least 99.97% of arrests were made without a shot being fired.
Skoo
Footballguy
Sounds like someone needs to brush up on their history.
Calling someone “subhuman” is completely unacceptable.
Again, it’s not 1957 anymore. POS racists are gonna get called out for being POS racists.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
Skoo
Footballguy
I’m accusing anyone who uses the term “subhuman” to refer to another human being as a racist, yes.
100%
Challenge Everything
Footballguy
I have no reason to dispute the findings of the study. However, if those numbers are true... why arm police officers with guns at all? If they are so seldom used, get rid of them. I'd be willing to bet that most people would feel much safer knowing there is no gun that could be used at all.
To the people who will say something to the effect of, "police need guns to maintain order, or have the threat of maintaining order," the numbers, evidently, would heavily refute that claim.
timschochet
Footballguy
It came from someone who asserted that 99.9% of the time things are good between blacks and the police.
Gawain
Footballguy
The Harvard study does show racial bias in minor use of force. That's the policing issue. The militarization and overuse of force is where there is common ground across the political spectrum. It's why there needs to be robust internal affairs groups. It's a major issue with the "thin blue line" mentality and the use of minor force as an every day solution to issues that police officers face is what needs to change.
GoBirds
Footballguy
You trying to paint in inaccurate picture of his post just so you can call someone racist is pretty sad. Especially with your posting history, try to be better.
sho nuff
Footballguy
The sentiment may be right...but what do you think their purpose in reporting it like that is? IMO...its to say, see, the Pandemic isn't that bad or these people wouldn't be out. Also setting up the scapegoat if cases start rising.sporthenry said:
I don't think people forgot...I think people are pissed off at what has been going on for a long time and the death of Mr. Floyd set it off (again, not all because some of this is absolutely organized to cause chaos rather than protest for a reason)
GoBirds
Footballguy
Gawain
Footballguy
Tradition? Unions? European cops don't generally carry in public. NYPD transit cops don't carry.
I think limiting the scope of officers that carry as part of their everyday duties is probably a great way to go.
ETA: especially as officers carry non-lethal/less-lethal weapons as well. When was the kid shot when the officer thought he had reached for a Taser? A body cam on every cop, tasers and pepper spray standard compliance carry.
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Cjw_55106
Footballguy
I actually see them as pretty similar. There are few things in this world that bother me more than when someone of power does something to someone else just because they can. I don’t care if it’s social power, political power, financial power, or physical power. Both Chauvin and these rioters Imposed their will and others because the other person had no recourse. Sorry if the word is offending to some, but these people are subhuman in my mind.
Witz
Footballguy
No one is muddying the waters - talking specifically about specific responses to specific posts.
He was replying to the post about the shopkeepers getting beat. That was his response. You 'loved' this response. Now maybe you were reacting to other things he said (which I do agree with) but that single bolded response was buried in with the rest of the response.
That's the issue with this - they aren't mutually exclusive. Regardless of everything else, violence in any form against anyone is unacceptable and shouldn't be viewed as the 'answer for change'. Do you agree or disagree with that?
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
The numbers do nothing to refute the claim. You can’t put a number on how many times the simple fact that the police officer had a gun was a deterrent to others.
Challenge Everything
Footballguy
Sweet, let's do our collective bit and start pressuring for this type of policy. I'm sure policing would be much better welcomed without the threat of death. The amount of videos I've seen on reddit this past week of white cops pulling guns out, for no reason, would dramatically ease tensions.
The police unions do much more harm than good. Traditions need to change.
Challenge Everything
Footballguy
Ah, yes, let's arm everyone so no one will ever use their gun. Is that your logic? If it is, I'm glad my brain doesn't work like that and I am sorry that yours does.
Skoo
Footballguy
From Wikipedia:
Subhuman (German: Untermensch), a term from early eugenics and Nazi racial ideology for an "inferior human being" Dehumanization. A measure of progress in artificial intelligence, denoting worse performance than most humans.
You wanna defend the use of that term, have at it.
I’ll never let that kind of talk slide.
Ever.
Subhuman (German: Untermensch), a term from early eugenics and Nazi racial ideology for an "inferior human being" Dehumanization. A measure of progress in artificial intelligence, denoting worse performance than most humans.
You wanna defend the use of that term, have at it.
I’ll never let that kind of talk slide.
Ever.
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Cjw_55106
Footballguy
If by everyone you are referring to the police, then yes that’s what I’m saying.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Biden not only stifled it, he crushed it. He'll pass the torch to one of his cronies who will keep her at bay.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
This probably isn't a great word to use. Uncivilized and/or barbaric is what I prefer.
Subhuman has implications that are a little yucky.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
when he said "This entire situation is awful, but it’s time for a change. Is this the answer for change? I’m not sure." what is the "this" he is referencing though? Is it protesting or is it violence?
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
All over conservative media and talk shows, the focus is on extreme left wing groups like Antifa leading the riots (some of them say leading the protests as well.) This idea has been echoed by our President and Attorney General.
On MSNBC Joy Reid is focusing on news reports of extreme right wing groups who are attempting to instigate violence.
My own suspicion is that both of these assertions are wildly overstated. I believe the vast majority of rioters aren’t organized at all; they are simply a minority of protestors who are behaving badly, just as there are a minority of police who are behaving badly.
On MSNBC Joy Reid is focusing on news reports of extreme right wing groups who are attempting to instigate violence.
My own suspicion is that both of these assertions are wildly overstated. I believe the vast majority of rioters aren’t organized at all; they are simply a minority of protestors who are behaving badly, just as there are a minority of police who are behaving badly.
sho nuff
Footballguy
To keep claiming it is all extreme leftists does not appear to be supported by a whole lot. Its also pretty sad to all but cheer on the violence against news media covering these stories. No, its not a good thing that people are having that much contempt for news reporters. These are not the opinion talking heads...these are on the ground reporters showing things as they happen. That isn't fake news...its actual news. Its sad that a movement to label anything negative about a side is called fake news.tonydead said:
https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far-right-infiltrators-and-agitators-in-george-floyd-protests-indicators-of-white-supremacists/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/05/30/right-wing-conspiracists-pull-from-old-playbook-blame-george-soros-for-riots/#17ad5de54100
And there are more reports out there...that there appear to be both antifa type and the proud boy white nationalist types out there in these cities. Why? To create the mess that they have wanted the whole time.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
No need to look for implications. My post clearly indicates I don’t care what color the person is.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Skoo
Footballguy
Use a different term dude. The rest of that paragraph is the reason why.
You could just call them “criminals” for example, because that’s what they are.
Did you also claim the officer who murdered an innocent man was “subhuman”?
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