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Another killing at the hands of the Police (8 Viewers)

Just as an example - why are MSP cops allowed to get paid in cash for side jobs? Can they own security companies? Can they be employed by security companies so they have duel loyalties and maybe get involved in some off the books grey market businesses?

I guarantee Chauvin was not the only one getting paid like that. Bring the federal heat in and watch them jump. No doubt this has zero chance of happening in this administration.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Just as an example - why are MSP cops allowed to get paid in cash for side jobs? Can they own security companies? Can they be employed by security companies so they have duel loyalties and maybe get involved in some off the books grey market businesses?

I guarantee Chauvin was not the only one getting paid like that. Bring the federal heat in and watch them jump. No doubt this has zero chance of happening in this administration.
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Please quit with the in this administration crap. No previous administration has addressed this issue. Not to mention, paying someone in cash is not illegal.

 
MPD Police Union leader Bob Kroll, after fatal shooting by MPD police a few years back from NYT's Ellen Barry:

Bob Kroll, head of Minneapolis police union, told an ACLU leader (after a fatal shooting) that he views community complaints against police like fouls in basketball. “He told me, ‘If you’re not getting any fouls, you’re not working hard enough,’” she said.
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Observation #2 - when my daughter and I went to go to the protests, my son wanted to go to. 

“Some friends and I are going in town to go break some ####.”  He’s 19, and had that wild 19 year old energy that I had. I would have said/done the SAME EXACT THING at that age. I was an idiot with a lot of anger for no particular reason. 

i sat him down and had a long talk about what was going on. Why people are protesting, and why white people need to be allies, not instigators. And if he can’t guarantee that he’ll control himself, he needs to stay home. 

he still wanted to go. So I told him, I’ll tell you what, if you stay home, I’ll give you some cash, you go get yourself some weed, and have some friends over to smoke it up in the back yard. 

it was a deal. When I got home with my daughter, she was so FURIOUS at me for making her leave early that she wouldn't talk to me. I took a walk. My son and his buddy were laying on a blanket in our back yard absolutely baked out of their gourds. She sat with them and vented. By the time I got home, they had made her feel a ton better and she apologized.  Win win. 

 
Cjw_55106 said:
Please quit with the in this administration crap. No previous administration has addressed this issue. Not to mention, paying someone in cash is not illegal.
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I'm speaking as someone from a city who had just that happened. Our sheriff and jail also was put under DOJ oversight.

It happened in New Orleans under Obama, if you want links I'll supply them. I'm pretty sure there's another city where it happened though I cannot recall which.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Just as an example - why are MSP cops allowed to get paid in cash for side jobs? Can they own security companies? Can they be employed by security companies so they have duel loyalties and maybe get involved in some off the books grey market businesses?

I guarantee Chauvin was not the only one getting paid like that. Bring the federal heat in and watch them jump. No doubt this has zero chance of happening in this administration.
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Apparently zero chance the Minnesota political leaders were interested in fixing their disaster of a police force as well.

 
Joe Bryant said:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2020/05/31/man-shown-in-viral-videos-being-severely-beaten-by-crowd-in-victory-park-in-stable-condition-dallas-police-say/

Apparently trying to defend his store and had a sword or machete.
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heres the FULL video of it, WARNING graphic and disturbing

GRAPHIC AND DISTURBING VIDEO - NWS

Here's the full Dallas attempted murder video. Mob throws rocks at man and chases him. Mob corners man and runs him down. Mob beats, kicks, curbstomps and stones him in the head and proceeds to run his pockets.
Click to expand...

 
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Cjw_55106 said:
"White officers do not kill black suspects at a higher rate compared with nonwhite officers," concludes a research team led by Charles Menifield, dean of the School of Public Affairs and Administration at Rutgers University–Newark. "The killing of black suspects is a police problem, not a white police problem."
 

https://psmag.com/social-justice/black-cops-are-just-as-likely-as-whites-to-kill-black-suspects
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I'll be honest in saying I don't have the heart for this right this second as George Floyd's death feels too recent. But I'd love if we could have a reasoned and honest discussion on this soon. And data will be a big part of it. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I'm speaking as someone from a city who had just that happened. Our sheriff and jail also was put under DOJ oversight.

It happened in New Orleans under Obama, if you want links I'll supply them. I'm pretty sure there's another city where it happened though I cannot recall which.
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Which law specifically are they breaking in paying people cash?

 
moleculo said:
The problem is NOT white cops clashing with black citizens.  To say that assumes all white cops are racists. 

Why would you assume that?
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because if this had been 4 white cops killed a white man, nobody would have said much at all and if it were 4 hispanic cops killing a hispanic man, nobody would have said much and if it were 4 black cops killing a black man, nobody would have said much

its a big news event because it was 4 white cops and a black man , am I right ?

 
Sweet J said:
Observation #2 - when my daughter and I went to go to the protests, my son wanted to go to. 

“Some friends and I are going in town to go break some ####.”  He’s 19, and had that wild 19 year old energy that I had. I would have said/done the SAME EXACT THING at that age. I was an idiot with a lot of anger for no particular reason. 

i sat him down and had a long talk about what was going on. Why people are protesting, and why white people need to be allies, not instigators. And if he can’t guarantee that he’ll control himself, he needs to stay home. 

he still wanted to go. So I told him, I’ll tell you what, if you stay home, I’ll give you some cash, you go get yourself some weed, and have some friends over to smoke it up in the back yard. 

it was a deal. When I got home with my daughter, she was so FURIOUS at me for making her leave early that she wouldn't talk to me. I took a walk. My son and his buddy were laying on a blanket in our back yard absolutely baked out of their gourds. She sat with them and vented. By the time I got home, they had made her feel a ton better and she apologized.  Win win. 
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You’re a good dad and a wise man 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I'll be honest in saying I don't have the heart for this right this second as George Floyd's death feels too recent. But I'd love if we could have a reasoned and honest discussion on this soon. And data will be a big part of it. 
Click to expand...
Understood but my point was simply, Having people of the same color working specific neighborhoods is not a solution.

 
Sweet J said:
Observation #2 - when my daughter and I went to go to the protests, my son wanted to go to. 

“Some friends and I are going in town to go break some ####.”  He’s 19, and had that wild 19 year old energy that I had. I would have said/done the SAME EXACT THING at that age. I was an idiot with a lot of anger for no particular reason. 

i sat him down and had a long talk about what was going on. Why people are protesting, and why white people need to be allies, not instigators. And if he can’t guarantee that he’ll control himself, he needs to stay home. 

he still wanted to go. So I told him, I’ll tell you what, if you stay home, I’ll give you some cash, you go get yourself some weed, and have some friends over to smoke it up in the back yard. 

it was a deal. When I got home with my daughter, she was so FURIOUS at me for making her leave early that she wouldn't talk to me. I took a walk. My son and his buddy were laying on a blanket in our back yard absolutely baked out of their gourds. She sat with them and vented. By the time I got home, they had made her feel a ton better and she apologized.  Win win. 
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This is great stuff. Father of the year potential. :lol:  

 
sporthenry said:
Thanks. CNN was holding a prayer session instead. What sort of policies did he say?
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I wish I could remember them all. 
 

One of them was that when incidents like Floyd occurs the investigation shouldn’t be done by the local authorities, because self policing doesn’t work. Outside agency that the public will trust. 

Have a national definition of excessive force

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
None. But one Assistant US Attorney here called it "the aorta of corruption." Two masters and that kind of thing, and with untraceable money and more pay than they got from the PD guess which master and what kinds took precedence often.
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That’s the problem. What is any administration going to do? Unless you change the laws, you have no legal standing. This of course assumes any audit accounts for the cash. 

 
Stealthycat said:
segregation is natural though - we tried forcing desegregation and it failed - which is another topic

I'm just saying if we don't want white cops having clashes with black citizens - and that really IS the topic isn't it ??   then remove the chances it'll happen
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Why is that?  We are more comfortable with our own kind and we feel threatened by those who are different.  Isn't this at the root of racism?  How do we move to recognizing the underlying common theme that we are all humans.  I don't think taking steps that perpetuates the separation is the right direction.

 
djmich said:
Why is that usually the case?  I would have hoped that cities/states managed by Democrats would provide some clues on how to fix policing because republicans can’t/won’t.  Isn’t that the taking point?
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I'd really like to avoid talking points given the seriousness of the situation. My state has had endemic Democratic corruption for years, and when the GOP came to power many Dems switched and just outright GOPers shared in it. Power doesn't give a damn about R/D, $$$ aren't red/blue, they're green.

 
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Cjw_55106 said:
That’s the problem. What is any administration going to do? Unless you change the laws, you have no legal standing. This of course assumes any audit accounts for the cash. 
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Oversight results in a consent decree with changed procedures - DOJ gets in their business, forces them to change proceedings, funny business gets rooted out and ended. It causes problems in the PD because let's just say some of the things that some cops like get ended. It's definitely a balance because we have lost cops and that's a problem in its own right.

And I have no idea if Minny has an IG or PD monitor but those things are really good too. I can hope they do but if not it's a good point to raise with conservative, indie and liberal locals alike who are interested in that subject. I encourage you to do so.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
I'd really like to avoid talking points given the seriousness of the situation. My state has had endemic Democratic corruption for years, and when the GOP came to power many Dems switched and just outright GOPers shared in it. Power doesn't give a damn about R/D, $$$ aren't red/blue, they're green.
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👍🏻  My only qualm is that you made it about talking points when your original post implied the current admin would do nothing.

 
djmich said:
👍🏻  My only qualm is that you made it about talking points when your original post implied the current admin would do nothing.
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Thanks, and I don't mean to throw firecrackers. I think I'm just being honest about the chances of that happening under Trump/Barr, sorry. I do think it's a proposal that could help resolve this. It's just me, I haven't heard this pitched anywhere. Thanks for the response.

 
djmich said:
👍🏻  My only qualm is that you made it about talking points when your original post implied the current admin would do nothing.
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Isn’t it reasonable to assume that the current administration, which campaigns on law and order and always allies itself with police, is not going to do anything to address the concerns of those who believe that systemic racism exists in law enforcement? 

 
djmich said:
You’re right, but an honest discussion...good luck with that 😢
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I feel like we used to have good, honest political discussions here, respectful of differing views and willing to look at data.  Sure, there were always a few trolls, but not like it is now.

Maybe the mods were just better at catching and banning aliases then?  Maybe there's a hesitance to appear biased?  Or maybe it's just that other boards have disappeared and the trolls have migrated here?

I have noticed that the best posters from the the conservative side in the old days have largely disappeared.  I imagine they feel drowned out, in a "you're not helping" way, by the new crew.

I miss those days.

 
timschochet said:
Isn’t it reasonable to assume that the current administration, which campaigns on law and order and always allies itself with police, is not going to do anything to address the concerns of those who believe that systemic racism exists in law enforcement? 
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Yes, and it is also reasonable to ask why the existing democratic leadership at the city and state level allowed this travesty to happen.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
None. But one Assistant US Attorney here called it "the aorta of corruption." Two masters and that kind of thing, and with untraceable money and more pay than they got from the PD guess which master and what kinds took precedence often.
Click to expand...
In Miami,  lax auditing leads to abuses such as overlapping on-duty and off-duty assignments, and raiding of opposition establishments. The abuse of the pension system in the years before retirement is another big issue. 

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-police-abuse-off-duty-security-assignments-audit-finds-11423341

 
Rich Conway said:
I feel like we used to have good, honest political discussions here, respectful of differing views and willing to look at data.  Sure, there were always a few trolls, but not like it is now.

Maybe the mods were just better at catching and banning aliases then?  Maybe there's a hesitance to appear biased?  Or maybe it's just that other boards have disappeared and the trolls have migrated here?

I have noticed that the best posters from the the conservative side in the old days have largely disappeared.  I imagine they feel drowned out, in a "you're not helping" way, by the new crew.

I miss those days.
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Of course, I used to always think you were one of those :lol:  

Ideological conservatism is mostly dead. It is all personality based/cultural conservatism now.

 
dkp993 said:
Sorry I’d this has been posted already but the pages are stacking up quickly here.  Either way it’s an excellent video and worth sharing again. 
 

https://mobile.twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1267107339833925634
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I love this. And to pinky's post, I think it really needs to be this type of integration. I still like to think we are more alike than different. Sadly, the internet and partisan politics and even this board seems to amplify the differences. Unlike someone who posted we should just segregate officers by race, I do think the officers should be a part of the community. Obviously that won't always be possible completely but in this specific scenario, they allegedly worked at the same place. I would guess they didn't interact much but if you had previous interaction with the community, then I think the outcome would be very different. 

 
Galileo said:
Why is that?  We are more comfortable with our own kind and we feel threatened by those who are different.  Isn't this at the root of racism?  How do we move to recognizing the underlying common theme that we are all humans.  I don't think taking steps that perpetuates the separation is the right direction.
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yes and no

you can be comfortable in your own place and ways and STILL be comfortable around others too - it doesn't have to be one way or the other 

I was suggesting a way to stop this white officer/black citizen rare bad incident from happening - and that is to remove the possibility. Other than that, I don't know know any way to 100% guarantee anything and nobody else can either

What I do know is that several people dead, hundreds hurt, tens of millions of dollars in damages and looters/rioting being allowed with little control has nothing to do with addressing the issues at hand and it never will. 

nobody has thought much about covid-19 in the past 48 hours though

 
shader said:
Is there any proof that Antifa was at any of these rallies?  
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Not that I've yet seen, but I'm sure there were -- just as I'm sure there were some Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, Boogaloo Bois, Big Igloo Bois, etc. I'm not waiting with baited breath on those others being added anytime soon. Just more division from our President at a time of national crisis.

 
Slapdash said:
Trump escalating the situation because chaos is exactly what authoratrians like him want to gain power.
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Antifa organized to infiltrate a protest all throughout USA to cause destruction and mayhem. They have done this kind of stuff before, but now they took it way too far with this latest one, and I applaud Trump for labeling them a terrorist group, but it should have been done way sooner.

 
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Nipsey said:
I'm going to head out on foot to the epicenter of the action in LA yesterday (3rd & Fairfax). Going to check out Melrose, Wilshire and La brea as well. All the places nearby that were pretty much destroyed last night. Will report back in a bit with my first hand account. Nipsey reporting for FBG news, Los Angeles.
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Cleveland imposed a curfew that started at noon today.

 
SoBeDad said:
In Miami,  lax auditing leads to abuses such as overlapping on-duty and off-duty assignments, and raiding of opposition establishments. The abuse of the pension system in the years before retirement is another big issue. 

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-police-abuse-off-duty-security-assignments-audit-finds-11423341
Click to expand...
Thanks. And I’m not saying that Chauvin was into corruption, I’m just saying that people who run things will try like hell to do everything they can to keep the feds from coming around and looking into their ####.

 
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