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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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44 minutes ago, pollardsvision said:

Speaking of Houston, I can't remember if got posted last night, but their Police Chief is so freaking awesome. It deserves another post if a repeat. He even trashes the skater kids.

https://twitter.com/bribrielle_/status/1267195158149369856

lol, nice job by him.  i think we can all unanimously unite against white skaters

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skateboarding is not a crime

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I may get absolutely fried for this, but here goes...

I've been thinking about how this moment compares to the 60's, and the most obvious gap is that there isn't a Dr. King (type).  A single, unifying voice for all those affected.  In turn, that got me thinking who might be able to step into that role effectively.  In the 60's, the church had a much more powerful presence across the African American community that I don't think is as prevalent today (happy to discuss this).  Many African American youths align more with with hip hop stars (happy to discuss this as well).  There are a few similarities here, too.  They have a platform, and convey their message effectively.  I was incredibly impressed with the message that Killer Mike delivered the other night...but he repeatedly made it clear that he "didn't want to be (t)here."  But what he said absolutely nailed it.  Stop destroying your own community.  Vote.  Plot, plan, strategize, organize, mobilize.  As we all can see, the general reaction these days is to go straight to mobilize.  We need someone not holding a political office to take this over.  The NAACP has been ineffective for a while, and doesn't seem to have the social relevance they have had over the years (example - Killer Mike has more Twitter followers than they do).  They're a 501c3, not an inspirational figure people can rally around.  They're also not nearly as comprehensive in approach as I would have thought they would be (ex - only five states have voting guides available).  

Who do you think can become the voice needed to unify?

I recognize this - I'm a ####### white guy. Despite living in a racially diverse city (Oakland), in a mixed race family, I still don't know ####. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, djmich said:

lol, nice job by him.  i think we can all unanimously unite against white skaters

Hey i love skateboarding!

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Kinda sad that the only pro-gun takeaway appears to be business owners protecting their property, and not civilians having the means to stand up to brutal militarized police state.  

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1 minute ago, ren hoek said:

Kinda sad that the only pro-gun takeaway appears to be business owners protecting their property, and not civilians having the means to stand up to brutal militarized police state.  

Is this a Wolverines! type of thought? Cuz if so I'm wondering how this ends in your world?

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1 hour ago, HellToupee said:

He had a couple of chances to make a turning point

He certainly tried. He proposed some very specific legislation. Republicans blocked all of it. He made two very impressive speeches about making this nation a more perfect union. Conservatives such as yourself ignored them or ridiculed them. He tried to have a meeting between a black professor and the police officer who wrongfully arrested him. You guys made fun of him. He tried to act and speak with moderation and restraint after events in Ferguson, Baltimore and Dallas. You guys called him weak. 
In retrospect, Obama never had a chance. 

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6 minutes ago, dutch said:

Is this a Wolverines! type of thought? 

Not sure what this means 

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42 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

No..racial injustice is still the problem today, it was yesterday and the day before and the week before and months and years before.  It will continue to be the problem until something changes.

 

and not a single person had denied that

there are a LOT of injustices in the world - none of them every justify violence/looting/riots

so lets just call these people what they are - opportunistic criminals and if we arrested them all right now, could the peaceful protests continue please ?

 

 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

He certainly tried. He proposed some very specific legislation. Republicans blocked all of it. He made two very impressive speeches about making this nation a more perfect union. Conservatives such as yourself ignored them or ridiculed them. He tried to have a meeting between a black professor and the police officer who wrongfully arrested him. You guys made fun of him. He tried to act and speak with moderation and restraint after events in Ferguson, Baltimore and Dallas. You guys called him weak. 
In retrospect, Obama never had a chance. 

he had 8 years to do something and Obama failed - call it what it is

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45 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

This does nothing to address my post, this thread, or the issue at hand...please don't deflect like that.

a lot of people think its very valid - don't deflect that

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21 minutes ago, -jb- said:

I may get absolutely fried for this, but here goes...

I've been thinking about how this moment compares to the 60's, and the most obvious gap is that there isn't a Dr. King (type).  A single, unifying voice for all those affected.  In turn, that got me thinking who might be able to step into that role effectively.  In the 60's, the church had a much more powerful presence across the African American community that I don't think is as prevalent today (happy to discuss this).  Many African American youths align more with with hip hop stars (happy to discuss this as well).  There are a few similarities here, too.  They have a platform, and convey their message effectively.  I was incredibly impressed with the message that Killer Mike delivered the other night...but he repeatedly made it clear that he "didn't want to be (t)here."  But what he said absolutely nailed it.  Stop destroying your own community.  Vote.  Plot, plan, strategize, organize, mobilize.  As we all can see, the general reaction these days is to go straight to mobilize.  We need someone not holding a political office to take this over.  The NAACP has been ineffective for a while, and doesn't seem to have the social relevance they have had over the years (example - Killer Mike has more Twitter followers than they do).  They're a 501c3, not an inspirational figure people can rally around.  They're also not nearly as comprehensive in approach as I would have thought they would be (ex - only five states have voting guides available).  

Who do you think can become the voice needed to unify?

I recognize this - I'm a ####### white guy. Despite living in a racially diverse city (Oakland), in a mixed race family, I still don't know ####. 

 

 

There’s an understandable bit of revisionist history here, and it’s due to our flaws in education. MLK was never a single unifying figure- he became one after he was shot to death. During his life he was a voice of moderation who had to fight as much against the extremists in his own movement as he did against bigots. 

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32 minutes ago, Pipes said:

Can you retrain a racist though?  I don't think anything is going to change until police departments can actually fire the bad cops.  Chauvin had what 18 complaints against him with barely a slap on the wrist.  Police unions have too much power.  Being able to discipline and root out the bad seeds is what really needs to happen along with massive retraining.

I'm fascinated by this type of discussion.  I've got a lot of thoughts and not a whole lot of time.  The main thrust of my thinking is that the term "racist" is problematic, because we are dealing with a spectrum.  There's a whole host of inputs and outputs to our stressors and behaviors in response.  A "good" person who would never consider himself a "racist" (he doesn't dislike black people; he doesn't want them hurt, he doesn't want to see them beaten down, etc.) may STILL have a more generalized fear around a spastic black guy vs. a spastic white guy?  And he may be more likely to pull the gun out when faced by that black guy than white guy.  Why? Who knows! It *could* be racism, sure, but it could also be that he doesn't really have any day-to-day experience with black folk, or his only experience is the media portrayals, or the fear of the unknown, or horrible training, or whatever. 

My point is, that there IS something you can do. There ARE strategies, however difficult to implement. You slowly turn bad cops into better cops. And the cops that can't get better, you fire. 

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Just now, Sweet J said:

I'm fascinated by this type of discussion.  I've got a lot of thoughts and not a whole lot of time.  The main thrust of my thinking is that the term "racist" is problematic, because we are dealing with a spectrum.  There's a whole host of inputs and outputs to our stressors and behaviors in response.  A "good" person who would never consider himself a "racist" (he doesn't dislike black people; he doesn't want them hurt, he doesn't want to see them beaten down, etc.) may STILL have a more generalized fear around a spastic black guy vs. a spastic white guy?  And he may be more likely to pull the gun out when faced by that black guy than white guy.  Why? Who knows! It *could* be racism, sure, but it could also be that he doesn't really have any day-to-day experience with black folk, or his only experience is the media portrayals, or the fear of the unknown, or horrible training, or whatever. 

My point is, that there IS something you can do. There ARE strategies, however difficult to implement. You slowly turn bad cops into better cops. And the cops that can't get better, you fire. 

Great post. I think most people who are bigots can become non bigots. Of course it’s true the other way as well, unfortunately...

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6 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Not sure what this means 

He's talking about armed insurrection a la Red Dawn.

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

There’s an understandable bit of revisionist history here, and it’s due to our flaws in education. MLK was never a single unifying figure- he became one after he was shot to death. During his life he was a voice of moderation who had to fight as much against the extremists in his own movement as he did against bigots. 

didn’t he win the noble 😉 peace prize?

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

So did Obama. 

I get it, just squaring up on the revisionist history thing. 

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Just now, -jb- said:

I get it, just squaring up on the revisionist history thing. 

The truth is we’ve never had a unifying figure in this country for more than a few weeks in our entire history and it takes a Pearl Harbor or 9/11 to give us one. I don’t think the founders wanted us to have any unifying figures: too dangerous. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

The truth is we’ve never had a unifying figure in this country for more than a few weeks in our entire history and it takes a Pearl Harbor or 9/11 to give us one. I don’t think the founders wanted us to have any unifying figures: too dangerous. 

I’d settle for non-polarizing figures. Do we have a shot at that?

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Posted (edited)

No charges for the white Omaha bar owner who killed a 22 year old black protester. Police/DA claim it was self defense, supposed witnesses on social media (several of whom say they were ignored in their attempts to provide witness accounts) disagree, claim he was shouting racial slurs and brandishing a pistol toward them. Without dispute is that the protesters tackled him. I have a feeling there's no way the DA is going to charge him given that, regardless of witness testimony. Things may turn ugly in Omaha soon.

Edited by mcintyre1
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10 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The truth is we’ve never had a unifying figure in this country for more than a few weeks in our entire history and it takes a Pearl Harbor or 9/11 to give us one. I don’t think the founders wanted us to have any unifying figures: too dangerous. 

How his daughter put it a few days ago

"Don’t act like everyone loved my father. He was assassinated. A 1967 poll reflected that he was one of the most hated men in America. Most hated. Many who quote him now and evoke him to deter justice today would likely hate, and may already hate, the authentic King."

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2 hours ago, mcintyre1 said:

Just for anyone else in the Twin Cities area that is concerned about being able to get food/prescriptions, here's a Google map that's being updated to confirm whether places around the metro area are currently open or not.

Nice, thanks. Stopped at three different places yesterday afternoon trying to buy groceries before we found a store that was open in the SW metro. 

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2 minutes ago, pollardsvision said:

How his daughter put it a few days ago

"Don’t act like everyone loved my father. He was assassinated. A 1967 poll reflected that he was one of the most hated men in America. Most hated. Many who quote him now and evoke him to deter justice today would likely hate, and may already hate, the authentic King."

He was intensely disliked. Hoover's FBI was all over him. A much whiter country than we are today was convinced that the civil rights movement of the sixties was a communist provocation.

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Governor Christine Todd Whitman‏ @GovCTW 3h3 hours ago

.@realDonaldTrump, Please stop injecting yourself into crises. Don’t try to tell governors what to do. Instead of calling for calm & for the nation to unite, you were sequestered in the White House basement & silent. Governors and mayors, on the other hand, were actively (1/5)

engaged in trying to bring order to their cities and towns. The #NationalGuard has been deployed across the country and most of the demonstrations were largely peaceful. While you only seem to feel the need for the use of more force, local elected leaders tried to (2/5)

control things in a way that will allow them to build for the future. While you just want to condemn people, real leaders are acknowledging the very real racial issues we are facing. In times like this, real leaders step up, and deal with the immediate problems while (3/5)

acknowledging the need for reform at all levels: police, eduction, housing, economic opportunity & more. This country desperately needs a real leader at the helm to deal with our racial issues, the #coronavirus, all those who are out of work, climate change and the myriad of(4/5)

other issues facing us. We need a leader to plan for the future. You, Mr. #President, are not that leader. In fact, you are making things worse on almost every front. Please, go back to your bunker and let the real leaders solve our problems. (5/5)#leadership #Trump #protests2020

https://twitter.com/GovCTW/status/1267504841103990784

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

Governor Christine Todd Whitman‏ @GovCTW 3h3 hours ago

.@realDonaldTrump, Please stop injecting yourself into crises. Don’t try to tell governors what to do. Instead of calling for calm & for the nation to unite, you were sequestered in the White House basement & silent. Governors and mayors, on the other hand, were actively (1/5)

engaged in trying to bring order to their cities and towns. The #NationalGuard has been deployed across the country and most of the demonstrations were largely peaceful. While you only seem to feel the need for the use of more force, local elected leaders tried to (2/5)

control things in a way that will allow them to build for the future. While you just want to condemn people, real leaders are acknowledging the very real racial issues we are facing. In times like this, real leaders step up, and deal with the immediate problems while (3/5)

acknowledging the need for reform at all levels: police, eduction, housing, economic opportunity & more. This country desperately needs a real leader at the helm to deal with our racial issues, the #coronavirus, all those who are out of work, climate change and the myriad of(4/5)

other issues facing us. We need a leader to plan for the future. You, Mr. #President, are not that leader. In fact, you are making things worse on almost every front. Please, go back to your bunker and let the real leaders solve our problems. (5/5)#leadership #Trump #protests2020

https://twitter.com/GovCTW/status/1267504841103990784

I think using the "hiding in your bunker" strategy is a bit ridiculous.  If the secret service moves him to the bunker for an hour because lots of people are at the White House, that's not his fault.  That's just a cheap shot, imo.

He also wasn't silent.  He tweeted the entire weekend.  It's not a fireside chat, but that's what he does. :shrug:

 

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3 minutes ago, shader said:

I think using the "hiding in your bunker" strategy is a bit ridiculous.  If the secret service moves him to the bunker for an hour because lots of people are at the White House, that's not his fault.  That's just a cheap shot, imo.

He also wasn't silent.  He tweeted the entire weekend.  It's not a fireside chat, but that's what he does. :shrug:

 

It's not a cheap shot, it's reality. I watched governor's, mayor's, council man and legislators stand up and speak and take action and devise strategy to get a handle on this situation but the occupant of the oval office did none of the above. He chided, agitated and insulted the governor's today in a show of his level of leadership.

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2 minutes ago, dutch said:

It's not a cheap shot, it's reality. I watched governor's, mayor's, council man and legislators stand up and speak and take action and devise strategy to get a handle on this situation but the occupant of the oval office did none of the above. He chided, agitated and insulted the governor's today in a show of his level of leadership.

All those things are totally different than what I was talking about.  The cheap shot is saying he's hiding in the bunker.  Accuracy is important.  If the secret service moves a president to the bunker, he goes.  Using that as a basis for ridicule is the very definition of a cheap shot.

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Posted (edited)

So what type of qualifications are needed to become a cop? It feels like most low on the totem poll office workers making 40k a year require a 4 year degree and all sorts of references, and they don't have any sort of authority over others or a deadly weapon ready at a moments notice. I know there is an academy or something similar, but obviously it is not up to snuff with teaching the correct mentality if this type of stuff keeps occurring, especially with systemic problems which could just as likely be ingrained in whatever training they get. Of the 3 people I know from way back in elementary school who became cops:  One was the school bully, one was good natured but probably the least intelligent person I know (he got a 700 something on the SATs), and the other was "normal" for the lack of a better word. I would argue that 2/3 of those should probably not have a gun as part of their normal occupation. I feel like this type of profession should go after the best and brightest, super rigorous qualifications and high pay, not people that want to roleplay military occupation. 

Edited by huthut
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11 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Here's a nice one.  Guy is on a knee, giving a speech, harming absolutely nobody.  Finally a couple of cops decide aw #### it let's just arrest him.

https://twitter.com/sweeeetdee_/status/1267319103167107072

5 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Here's another one.  Cops in full body armor and armed to the teeth react like toddlers when confronted with mild criticism.

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1267324994327056384

Good thing we have this thin blue line standing between us and people exercising their first amendment rights.  

this is not OK.  It makes it real hard to think of the police as the "good guys" when they come in, in full body armor, masks, and batons, and arrest people peacefully making speeches.

Some might even consider this to be fascist.

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5 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

This is a fair point.  I'm "fine with" the non-violent protests that are currently taking place in the sense that they're clearly constitutionally-protected speech and I believe that people should have the right to engage in this kind of activity.  That would not stop me from being annoyed if I got hung up in traffic.

Would you be more annoyed with A) the traffic, or B) the continuing need for people to protest because the core issues underlying these protests haven't been sufficiently addressed in the past 50+ years?

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1 hour ago, ren hoek said:

Kinda sad that the only pro-gun takeaway appears to be business owners protecting their property, and not civilians having the means to stand up to brutal militarized police state.  

Wait, what?

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4 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Would you be more annoyed with A) the traffic, or B) the continuing need for people to protest because the core issues underlying these protests haven't been sufficiently addressed in the past 50+ years?

The traffic.  I'm all for criminal justice reform, and unlike anybody who voted D or R in 2016, the party I voted for actually takes that issue seriously.  So yeah, I don't need to have my awareness raised on this one.

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1 hour ago, -jb- said:

I may get absolutely fried for this, but here goes...

I've been thinking about how this moment compares to the 60's, and the most obvious gap is that there isn't a Dr. King (type).  A single, unifying voice for all those affected.  In turn, that got me thinking who might be able to step into that role effectively.  In the 60's, the church had a much more powerful presence across the African American community that I don't think is as prevalent today (happy to discuss this).  Many African American youths align more with with hip hop stars (happy to discuss this as well).  There are a few similarities here, too.  They have a platform, and convey their message effectively.  I was incredibly impressed with the message that Killer Mike delivered the other night...but he repeatedly made it clear that he "didn't want to be (t)here."  But what he said absolutely nailed it.  Stop destroying your own community.  Vote.  Plot, plan, strategize, organize, mobilize.  As we all can see, the general reaction these days is to go straight to mobilize.  We need someone not holding a political office to take this over.  The NAACP has been ineffective for a while, and doesn't seem to have the social relevance they have had over the years (example - Killer Mike has more Twitter followers than they do).  They're a 501c3, not an inspirational figure people can rally around.  They're also not nearly as comprehensive in approach as I would have thought they would be (ex - only five states have voting guides available).  

Who do you think can become the voice needed to unify?

I recognize this - I'm a ####### white guy. Despite living in a racially diverse city (Oakland), in a mixed race family, I still don't know ####. 

 

 

 

I was not alive during the 60s but I wonder if this is actually true. Was MLK a single, unifying voice? I mean - there was Malcolm X/The Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers and Medgar Evers and Harry Belafonte and all the people and groups I'm missing/don't know about.

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just wondering if its another example of glorifying a past that didn't really exist. That's no knock against MLK. Just that the civil rights movement was never really unified behind one person.

 

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22 minutes ago, shader said:

I think using the "hiding in your bunker" strategy is a bit ridiculous.  If the secret service moves him to the bunker for an hour because lots of people are at the White House, that's not his fault.  That's just a cheap shot, imo.

He also wasn't silent.  He tweeted the entire weekend.  It's not a fireside chat, but that's what he does. :shrug:

 

The Onion delivers another cheap shot.

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Just now, whoknew said:

 

I was not alive during the 60s but I wonder if this is actually true. Was MLK a single, unifying voice? I mean - there was Malcolm X/The Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers and Medgar Evers and Harry Belafonte and all the people and groups I'm missing/don't know about.

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just wondering if its another example of glorifying a past that didn't really exist. That's no knock against MLK. Just that the civil rights movement was never really unified behind one person.

 

Valid points. Others have mentioned that we view him differently now than when he was alive and I’ll recognize that. Which just makes me sad. 

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1 minute ago, -jb- said:

No words 

I'm generally not a fan of reaching some grand conclusions based off a photo or short video clip. There's potentially a lot of stuff left out that we aren't seeing. But, it's kind of hard to come up with reasonable, believable explanations for many of these that put these particular police in a good light. Stitch all the videos and pictures together and I'm starting to think that maybe there's a problem.

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Just now, dgreen said:

I'm generally not a fan of reaching some grand conclusions based off a photo or short video clip. There's potentially a lot of stuff left out that we aren't seeing. But, it's kind of hard to come up with reasonable, believable explanations for many of these that put these particular police in a good light. Stitch all the videos and pictures together and I'm starting to think that maybe there's a problem.

Add to the fact that this is the third instance I have seen with children involved...

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