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Another killing at the hands of the Police (4 Viewers)

Taking my own poll.  Fire away.
It's so hard to say...when you look at something like the woman's marches where it was mostly general protestors i think that number is bigger

General Protestors  45%  (to me folks protesting who just get cuagut up in it)

Bad protestors  15%  (protestors ready to cause trouble)

Opportunistic anarchists 7% (white skateboarders!!!)

Organized anarchists (far left antifa) 5%

Organized left movements (BLM, ACAB)  15%

Opportunistic criminals  8%

Organized White supremacists (far right)  5%

Donald Trump  😀

Other?

 
How do you know? 
Tim, I'm interested in your response to the poll.  I would assume it is snotbubbles' (cant believe i had to write that) interpretation of events based on his viewing/reading the past few days.

Lets just be clear, nobody has data on this....mmmkay?

 
Antifa is behind the looting and the riots! 

But how do you know this? I’m not sure it’s that organized. What I’m watching seems pretty spontaneous. Also Antifa is a really small group, aren’t they? I think you might be exaggerating their overall role in this matter. 

I can’t believe you’re defending Antifa. 

 
Antifa is behind the looting and the riots! 

But how do you know this? I’m not sure it’s that organized. What I’m watching seems pretty spontaneous. Also Antifa is a really small group, aren’t they? I think you might be exaggerating their overall role in this matter. 

I can’t believe you’re defending Antifa. 
From what I read on here...spot on

 
Can I ask, who is officially participating in the riots?  In order of magnitude, assign a percentage.  I think you knuckleheads agree more than you disagree.

General Protestors

Bad protestors

Opportunistic anarchists

Organized anarchists (far left antifa)

Organized left movements (BLM, ACAB)

Opportunistic criminals

Organized White supremacists (far right)

Donald Trump

Other?
I can't speak for everywhere but here in NYC every reporter is reporting there are two sets of people. 

1. Peaceful protestors 

2. Kids on bikes scouting weak areas to loot/ vandalize

The second group is not part of the first group. I don't know who ANTIFA is but let's just say these kids on bikes are definitely NOT white supremacists. 

 
This violence and destruction of our cities isn't about George Floyd and everyone knows it. It's purely based upon their brown shirt ideology and destruction of America's beliefs, constitution, and way of life, disguised as a movement about George Floyd. 
What gets me upset is people trying to paint these people as left or Democrats.  They aren't for either side. 

 
Antifa is behind the looting and the riots! 

But how do you know this? I’m not sure it’s that organized. What I’m watching seems pretty spontaneous. Also Antifa is a really small group, aren’t they? I think you might be exaggerating their overall role in this matter. 

I can’t believe you’re defending Antifa. 
This is the funny thing and why I did the poll.  People are gradually changing who they are saying is responsible based on the narrative that fits best their political agenda it seems (and i'm not referring to jonmx...not defending him either).

 
Tim, I'm interested in your response to the poll.  I would assume it is snotbubbles' (cant believe i had to write that) interpretation of events based on his viewing/reading the past few days.

Lets just be clear, nobody has data on this....mmmkay?
I have no data either, no way of knowing. A lot of liberals I know want to blame right wing outsiders. Most conservatives and Trump supporters are convinced its Antifa and left wing anarchist groups. 

There seems to be some evidence of both playing a role but personally I suspect neither is very significant. I think there are some punks among the protestors looking to loot and blow #### up. I also think that when police use tear gas and other forceful methods on peaceful crowds it’s makes some of them outraged and violent. And finally I think some of them would be outraged and violent no matter what. 

 
whew , Antifa is off the hook now?

Do we really think white nationalists have a bigger role in the looting/violence than Antifa? I know MSNBC and CNN thinks that.
I think the point remains anyone who was claiming they just knew it was all antifa was quite mistaken.  Most in here have agreed its pockets a both...a few, including POTUS are pushing the its just left wingers and antifa.  Why is that?

 
Someone actually wrote a story about one fake tweet that got removed.  We have cities burning, massive looting, violence....but no, let's write a story about a fake tweet so we can point the finger at white supremists.   That is why media gets a bad rap.  They deserve it.  
It wasn't just one fake tweet though...and its the message getting pushed by some media, by POTUS, and by the AG that its all antifa...and it appears to be completely BS.  Nobody is ignoring the burning and violence...its been talked about...but do you think it isn't news to show such things...especially when that fake tweet was used in this very thread as supposed proof of it being Antifa?  Come on man...

I see others have also covered this...but yes...its news...yes, its on topic as it was brought up in this topic...as the topic of who is doing all of this is part of the issues being discussed.

 
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I have no data either, no way of knowing. A lot of liberals I know want to blame right wing outsiders. Most conservatives and Trump supporters are convinced its Antifa and left wing anarchist groups. 

There seems to be some evidence of both playing a role but personally I suspect neither is very significant. I think there are some punks among the protestors looking to loot and blow #### up. I also think that when police use tear gas and other forceful methods on peaceful crowds it’s makes some of them outraged and violent. And finally I think some of them would be outraged and violent no matter what. 
Thanks, I'd be interested in your specific poll response.  You spend an enormous amount of time discussing this, surely you have some idea.

 
I have no data either, no way of knowing. A lot of liberals I know want to blame right wing outsiders. Most conservatives and Trump supporters are convinced its Antifa and left wing anarchist groups. 

There seems to be some evidence of both playing a role but personally I suspect neither is very significant. I think there are some punks among the protestors looking to loot and blow #### up. I also think that when police use tear gas and other forceful methods on peaceful crowds it’s makes some of them outraged and violent. And finally I think some of them would be outraged and violent no matter what. 
This is pretty much all left-wing driven violence.   I did not notice any looting or fires when the scary right-wing white-supremist militua stormed Michigan to protest.  There is no evidence of any right-wing outsiders in these protests.  

 
It wasn't just one fake tweet though...and its the message getting pushed by some media, by POTUS, and by the AG that its all antifa...and it appears to be completely BS.  Nobody is ignoring the burning and violence...its been talked about...but do you think it isn't news to show such things...especially when that fake tweet was used in this very thread as supposed proof of it being Antifa?  Come on man...
This is clearly a movement from the left causing the violence.  Whether it is labeled Aftifa is pretty pointless.  

 
My understanding is Antifa is not really a group, it is just a term for those militant against what they see as fascism.  Doesn't seem that far off.  There is violence going on and it is coming from the left.  It is pretty obvious.


I'd hazard to say that 99% of the people protesting in the streets and 100% of the rioters/looters didn't vote Trump

the left is exactly who's doing this right now, not the right
This is exactly why the fake tweet and the posting of DHS memos was news...because even after that, there are still people just claiming its all the left.  With zero to base this on and more and more evidence showing that to be an incorrect take.

 
We have terrible disinformation campaigns going on in social media.  Actors are trying to divide us.  It's not going to get any better as we get closer to the election.  We have too many Americans who are falling for this fake crap and sharing it with others.  We even have that going on here and we're largely wiser than your average American (in my opinion). The American public needs to be continually warned about this stuff.  I welcome all such articles as long as they are truthful.  
And calling out the disinformation has been said to be part of the problem on this board.

 
This is clearly a movement from the left causing the violence.  Whether it is labeled Aftifa is pretty pointless.  
Completely disagree with the bolded.

When you claim all the unrest has been caused by an organized "terrorist" organization, you are dismissing the legitimate reasons people have to be angry.

So instead of adressing the issue that millions in this country are desperate for a change in how the police interact with our people, you get to blame it all on a scary evil liberal organization that just wants to burn the world down and make everyone else look bad.

"See, it's not that cops have been treating black people unfairly, it's these Antifa thugs that just wanna start trouble!"

 
This.  It greatly irritates me when people conflate peaceful protesters with rioters. 
I watched some 'peaceful' protesters walking down the steeet in front of my hotel in San Diego.  Tipping over porta-potties, screaming profanities, throwing stuff in the roads, banging on car.  Really a powder keg waiting to be ignighted. 

 
I feel strongly about agenda driven media which has been dominated by the left for decades.   I am sick of them telling us everytime conservatives demonstrate they are all white nationalist because they found one clown.  Or in this case, making headlines about one clown to distract from the leftwing roots of these riots.  
The reporting of the truth of that account was not to distract anyone...they are still reporting on the riots...claiming its all leftwing roots is still disingenuous as well.

 
This is exactly why the fake tweet and the posting of DHS memos was news...because even after that, there are still people just claiming its all the left.  With zero to base this on and more and more evidence showing that to be an incorrect take.
A fake tweet did not cause any of this.  HTH.

 
This is pretty much all left-wing driven violence.   I did not notice any looting or fires when the scary right-wing white-supremist militua stormed Michigan to protest.  There is no evidence of any right-wing outsiders in these protests.  
You mean the guys who stormed the capital building with guns?

Those are the peaceful protestors you're putting up as an example?

 
This is pretty much all left-wing driven violence.   I did not notice any looting or fires when the scary right-wing white-supremist militua stormed Michigan to protest.  There is no evidence of any right-wing outsiders in these protests.  
I don’t know why you would make such absolute assertions. As I stated I’ve read about evidence of both. Here is one summary of evidence of right wing involvement: 

https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far-right-infiltrators-and-agitators-in-george-floyd-protests-indicators-of-white-supremacists/

Again I have no idea if it’s true. But I’m not willing like you are to make definitive statements at this time. 

 
Completely disagree with the bolded.

When you claim all the unrest has been caused by an organized "terrorist" organization, you are dismissing the legitimate reasons people have to be angry.

So instead of adressing the issue that millions in this country are desperate for a change in how the police interact with our people, you get to blame it all on a scary evil liberal organization that just wants to burn the world down and make everyone else look bad.

"See, it's not that cops have been treating black people unfairly, it's these Antifa thugs that just wanna start trouble!"
Isn't the alternative worse for black people?

Ie if it's not antifa then it's black people rioting and looting and vandalizing. 

 
The reporting of the truth of that account was not to distract anyone...they are still reporting on the riots...claiming its all leftwing roots is still disingenuous as well.
It puts the idea that it is the right that is behind this.  The media is being far more disingenious than Trump.  That is quite an accomplishment! 

 
It directionally makes sense to me.

Why is it political?

If people with Trump signs were looting then yah Trump supporters

If people with Biden signs then yah Biden.

Nobody running around with campaign swag
Because of the words of POTUS and the AG calling it antifa and left wingers...because him invoking Biden over and over...posters on this board claiming its Biden's people setting the fires (not his staff or anything...but his supporters as it was inferred).

True...nobody is going to run around with campaign stuff...but its political in nature from the start as police brutality is a political issue...and then the overall blame game starts.  Its sad that POTUS and the AG chose a scapegoat without real evidence and continue to push that narrative to the point people just believe it.

 
That is truly sad.  The message about the tragedy of George Floyd is being overtaken by those who hate America and wants to destroy her.  How someone could defend Antifa and the destruction they are causing, is beyond belief.  This violence and destruction of our cities isn't about George Floyd and everyone knows it. It's purely based upon their brown shirt ideology and destruction of America's beliefs, constitution, and way of life, disguised as a movement about George Floyd.   The peaceful protesters message is lost because of the destruction. 
People are not defending the looters and rioters...people are pointing out that some of the claims of who they are have turned out false....

 
Because of the words of POTUS and the AG calling it antifa and left wingers...because him invoking Biden over and over...posters on this board claiming its Biden's people setting the fires (not his staff or anything...but his supporters as it was inferred).

True...nobody is going to run around with campaign stuff...but its political in nature from the start as police brutality is a political issue...and then the overall blame game starts.  Its sad that POTUS and the AG chose a scapegoat without real evidence and continue to push that narrative to the point people just believe it.
Well, when you think you're fighting a war, you need an enemy.

And your enemy can't just be a bunch of poor and frustrated people. That makes you look bad.

But if the enemy is a "terrorist organization"?

Then we can beat the hell out of 'em!

 
@timschochet

What's up with the gangs in LA?  We used to hear about what a problem they were and how they terrorized neighborhoods.  I don't think I've heard the word Bloods or Crips since Trump has been elected and probably well into the Obama reign.  I'm not seeing a lot of colors being worn by the looters that are being shown on TV.  Are they under work from home orders in CA?

 
Completely disagree with the bolded.

When you claim all the unrest has been caused by an organized "terrorist" organization, you are dismissing the legitimate reasons people have to be angry.

So instead of adressing the issue that millions in this country are desperate for a change in how the police interact with our people, you get to blame it all on a scary evil liberal organization that just wants to burn the world down and make everyone else look bad.

"See, it's not that cops have been treating black people unfairly, it's these Antifa thugs that just wanna start trouble!"
Yeah...hard to claim its pointless when POTUS and the AG are pushing stuff out there and there is an executive order to label a side a terrorist organization.

 
I don’t know why you would make such absolute assertions. As I stated I’ve read about evidence of both. Here is one summary of evidence of right wing involvement: 

https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far-right-infiltrators-and-agitators-in-george-floyd-protests-indicators-of-white-supremacists/

Again I have no idea if it’s true. But I’m not willing like you are to make definitive statements at this time. 
SERIOUSLY?????   You going to give me Mia Bloom as a source for some right-wing conpiracy?  Let's ignore what is 100 percent obvious.  

 
I don’t know why you would make such absolute assertions. As I stated I’ve read about evidence of both. Here is one summary of evidence of right wing involvement: 

https://www.justsecurity.org/70497/far-right-infiltrators-and-agitators-in-george-floyd-protests-indicators-of-white-supremacists/

Again I have no idea if it’s true. But I’m not willing like you are to make definitive statements at this time. 
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-white-supremacist-channel-on-telegram-encouraged-followers-to-incite-violence-during-police-brutality-protests-by-shooting-in-a-crowd-according-to-internal-dhs-memo/ar-BB14Ufq6?ocid=AMZN

Its right there too...and as I said...it seems there is one side trying to make definitive statements blaming the other...most others claim that its a mix of all kinds of people left and right.

 
@timschochet

What's up with the gangs in LA?  We used to hear about what a problem they were and how they terrorized neighborhoods.  I don't think I've heard the word Bloods or Crips since Trump has been elected and probably well into the Obama reign.  I'm not seeing a lot of colors being worn by the looters that are being shown on TV.  Are they under work from home orders in CA?
Coronavirus protocol. 

 
It puts the idea that it is the right that is behind this.  The media is being far more disingenious than Trump.  That is quite an accomplishment! 
Correcting the record is claiming its the right behind all of it?  Nowhere in that article did it come close to even inferring that.  Unlike some who keep claiming its 100% the left.

The media isn't being disingenuous Jon...they are reporting all of it.  

 
SERIOUSLY?????   You going to give me Mia Bloom as a source for some right-wing conpiracy?  Let's ignore what is 100 percent obvious.  
I don’t know who Mia Bloom is. In response to your post that there is absolutely no evidence of right wing involvement, I typed in “right wing involvement in the riots” to Google and 20+ articles came up. I grabbed the one with the most complete summary. You’re welcome to dismiss it. My point is that you don’t know; nobody does. 

 
Honestly, I think some of you have a very misplaced view on how this situation is being covered by the “left wing media.”  I’ve had the news on pretty much constantly over the past four nights, mostly, but not exclusively, CNN. I haven’t seen much if any coverage or discussion regarding white supremacists as the cause of the riots. In fact, but for reading this thread I wouldn’t really have any indication that white supremacists might be out there involved in the mayhem. To the contrary, there has been a TON of discussion and coverage about ANTIFA’s role in the riots. Maybe there were isolated reports about the involvement of white supremacist groups and I just missed them, but the focus on ANTIFA to white supremacists has been about 100 to 1 in the hours of coverage that I’ve seen. Now that’s not to say that CNN doesn’t have it in for Trump - they bash him pretty much constantly. But I honestly think some of you are way off base on this whole issue of the media trying to defend ANTIFA. 

 
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