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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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6 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

That's hard to watch - especially knowing the kid was having a seizure.  I mean - repeatedly just punching him in the face?  WTF.

double wtf

why were the police summoned to respond to someone having a seizure to begin with

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, djmich said:

double wtf

why were the police summoned to respond to someone having a seizure to begin with

I don't think they were called for that so they didn't seem to know.  But clearly couldn't recognize it either if he was indeed.

But let's say it's not a seizure since we can't really confirm from the video.  Still so inappropriate overall.

Edited by gianmarco

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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/upshot/murders-rising-crime-coronavirus.html

Quote

Some research suggests that a loss of trust in law enforcement can cause citizens to be reluctant to contact the police, and people may be more likely to take matters into their own hands to resolve disputes.

It’s important to keep the rise in historical perspective. Murder in New York was up 25 percent compared with last year as of June 14, but that total was the same one the city had in 2015. Murder is up 22 percent in Chicago, but it’s down 6 percent from where it was at this time in 2017. Murder is up 42 percent in New Orleans, but a year ago murder was its lowest point there in almost half a century.

“These numbers do not tell a story that supports any ideological side of the debate around policing,” Mr. Goff said. “What it supports at most is a need for rigorous curiosity about a vital issue.”

Ms. Doleac also says it is too early to draw any firm conclusions: “This is such a weird year in so many dimensions, and it’s going to take us a while to figure out what caused any of these differences in crime. It is perfectly reasonable to think the first half of this year may not tell us what the rest of the year will look like.”

Sampling crime data from dozens of large American cities has proved to be a reasonably accurate way of estimating current crime trends without waiting a year for the F.B.I. data to come out. Doing so this year, however, makes clear how little we know about the drivers of crime in the United States as well as the desperate need for better and more timely data.

“The reality is that we just don’t know” what’s driving the change in murder, Mr. Goff said, “and it’s not a straightforward process to figure it out.”

What else could possibly be going on to fuel such a thing? It'll be a miracle if we get to the bottom of this mystery.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

I like Bottoms* - from what I've seen she's kept an even keel during all of this. 

You're kidding, right? The citizens in that area asked her for help WEEKS ago saying they were threatened and harassed daily trying to get to their homes from work and were only told to avoid the area as much as possible. Now she's blaming someone else (Trump) because she realizes she let this go on too long.

That little girl's blood is on her hands.

Edited by gruecd
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2 hours ago, jplvr said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/upshot/murders-rising-crime-coronavirus.html

What else could possibly be going on to fuel such a thing? It'll be a miracle if we get to the bottom of this mystery.

This is what happens when pass a trillion dollar tax cut where 84% of went to the ultra wealthy.  Meanwhile, there's a pandemic where millions of people living paycheck to paycheck have lost their jobs.  I don't want socialism.   However, it's in the best interest of those with wealth to have a large middle class to not only buy their products but to not murder them because they're destitute and angry.

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8 minutes ago, Green Balloons said:

This is what happens when pass a trillion dollar tax cut where 84% of went to the ultra wealthy.  Meanwhile, there's a pandemic where millions of people living paycheck to paycheck have lost their jobs.  I don't want socialism.   However, it's in the best interest of those with wealth to have a large middle class to not only buy their products but to not murder them because they're destitute and angry.

Some data about wealth: https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, gruecd said:

You're kidding, right? The citizens in that area asked her for help WEEKS ago saying they were threatened and harassed daily trying to get to their homes from work and were only told to avoid the area as much as possible. Now she's blaming someone else (Trump) because she realizes she let this go on too long.

That little girl's blood is on her hands.

Even though it my city I haven’t followed it as closely as you apparently have - I said in another thread she made a mistake in not addressing things sooner.  My comment has to do with what I’ve heard her say for a while.  She seems to be someone who pushes for personal responsibility and not jumping to but again, she screwed up - she should own it. Not sure if I go as far as to say the blood is on her hands but I’m typically giving people the benefit of the doubt on things and don’t do hyperbole.

ETA - didn’t mean for that to sound sarcastic gb - I just don’t think it’s fair to say she has blood on her hands.  Politicians, police and others have tough jobs, especially with what’s currently going on.  I’m in favor of anybody who tries to not fan the flames

Edited by AAABatteries
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30 minutes ago, Green Balloons said:

This is what happens when pass a trillion dollar tax cut where 84% of went to the ultra wealthy.  Meanwhile, there's a pandemic where millions of people living paycheck to paycheck have lost their jobs.  I don't want socialism.   However, it's in the best interest of those with wealth to have a large middle class to not only buy their products but to not murder them because they're destitute and angry.

You don’t fix it by getting rid of police. 

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4 minutes ago, jplvr said:
35 minutes ago, Green Balloons said:

This is what happens when pass a trillion dollar tax cut where 84% of went to the ultra wealthy.  Meanwhile, there's a pandemic where millions of people living paycheck to paycheck have lost their jobs.  I don't want socialism.   However, it's in the best interest of those with wealth to have a large middle class to not only buy their products but to not murder them because they're destitute and angry.

You don’t fix it by getting rid of police. 

I agree 100%.   However the police as we know it need to be fixed.  They weren't meant to be another division of the military which is too often how they behave.  They also weren't meant to be tax collectors, many times to pay their own salary.   Lastly, the bad cops need to be put in jail, not merely fired.

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53 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

I say it all the time. I don't think people fully grasp just how much money $1B is. The fact that such a large portion of people defend multi-billionaires not being taxed at a much higher rate is absolutely mindblowing to me.

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1 hour ago, AAABatteries said:

Even though it my city I haven’t followed it as closely as you apparently have - I said in another thread she made a mistake in not addressing things sooner.  My comment has to do with what I’ve heard her say for a while.  She seems to be someone who pushes for personal responsibility and not jumping to but again, she screwed up - she should own it. Not sure if I go as far as to say the blood is on her hands but I’m typically giving people the benefit of the doubt on things and don’t do hyperbole.

ETA - didn’t mean for that to sound sarcastic gb - I just don’t think it’s fair to say she has blood on her hands.  Politicians, police and others have tough jobs, especially with what’s currently going on.  I’m in favor of anybody who tries to not fan the flames

Police have tough jobs...but we're (Bottoms' AG that is) trying to send the one involved in the Wendys incident to prison.  In this case the confrontation in question included a man assaulting a police officer and a split second decision in the line of duty.

Politicians have tough jobs?  Bottoms makes a decision to go against precedent and common sense, invites lawlessness and it results in an innocent child dead (forget about the other dude that was killed even).  Is the AG bringing charges? 

Why are these flames not deserving of fanning they seem much more egregious.

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49 minutes ago, Green Balloons said:

I agree 100%.   However the police as we know it need to be fixed.  They weren't meant to be another division of the military which is too often how they behave.  They also weren't meant to be tax collectors, many times to pay their own salary.   Lastly, the bad cops need to be put in jail, not merely fired.

Agreed.  Here is my 10 point plan for police reform.  I put this together quickly so i'm sure i forgot some things. 

1.     Tone at the top needs to change – Often these officers are being trained to do things that lead to a bad interaction, shooting, death or brutality.  Police Chiefs are forcing officers to stop and frisk and/or target POC.  This needs to be addressed.  Hold these people responsible.  Whether that be fines, jailtime, etc.  If the tone at the top does not change neither will the policing.  If an officer does something that kills a person and they were doing what they were trained to do, then hold the people at the top responsible.

2.     Better training – Officers need to be trained better to do many things including:  De-escalating interactions, subdueing people without shooting them(martial arts, being in shape, etc), Bias training to ensure racial bias’ aren’t playing a role in responding differently to different types of people.  Also make the requirements for becoming an officer higher.  Require a criminal justice or science degree.  We cant have people joining with little training and then give them a gun and say have at it.  Pay them better as a result.  Lets include background checks and ensure that people that are say white supremacists arent being hired. 

3.     Oversight/review boards – People that hold officers and precincts accountable that do not report to police leadership.  They should be more likely to be objective as a result.  These should be people from the community being policed.

4.     Significant community interaction by all officers – This could mean incentives to live in the communities being policed, regular proactive interactions like coffee with a cop, etc.  Positive interactions between the police and the community are extremely important towards reducing tension and irrational bias’ on both sides which should make things safer for both police and the community.  If i get pulled over by bob the officer and i know bob and we knows me and we have had many positive interactions, i'm likely to be less nervous as will the officer. 

5.     Defund the police where necessary – every community may not need to.  However, I think there are examples where this can help.  There are certain situations where an officer may not be needed.  Most districts do not need military weapons.  This has been spoken about at length so I wont go into depth.  And yes, some districts may be so corrupt that they may need a much larger overhaul. 

6.     Proactive ways to prevent crime – Its cheaper to pay for a kid to attend college than it is to incarcerate them. We need to move from where its incentivized to incarcerate people and focus on proactive measures.   This can come in the form of better education, programs to keep kids busy and off the streets, programs to incentivize students to do well and get a free ride to college, etc. 

7.     Mental health needs to be addressed – There seems to be an uptick in mental health issues.  I'm sure there are proactive measures here as well that can reduce the number of mentally ill people in the community. 

8.     Juries need to be diverse and representative of the community – Many people try to get out of Jury duty often because they cant afford to miss work.  This needs to be addressed as it often causes less diverse juries which can lead to a more biased jury which can lead to higher incarceration rates for POC. 

9.     Decriminalize and/or legalize marijuana – There are too many people incarcerated on minor drug charges and once you are in the system its difficult to get out. 

10.  Better data on police interactions – Right now there is a significant problem in data tracking things like police shootings or violence.  Not all precincts even report data.  This needs to change. 

Thoughts?  Feedback?  Feel free to add.  I feel like we arent talking about solutions enough. 

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38 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

I say it all the time. I don't think people fully grasp just how much money $1B is. The fact that such a large portion of people defend multi-billionaires not being taxed at a much higher rate is absolutely mindblowing to me.

That chart literally blew my mind.  I thought i understood how much $1B was but geez!

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35 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

I say it all the time. I don't think people fully grasp just how much money $1B is. The fact that such a large portion of people defend multi-billionaires not being taxed at a much higher rate is absolutely mindblowing to me.

I just want them taxed fairly.  People like Bezos or Gates who gains billions through stock appreciation and never pay taxes on their biggest source of wealth accumulation is the biggest loophole of all.  They can hold those stock forever and not pay tax.  

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4 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Agreed.  Here is my 10 point plan for police reform.  I put this together quickly so i'm sure i forgot some things. 

3.     Oversight/review boards – People that hold officers and precincts accountable that do not report to police leadership.  They should be more likely to be objective as a result.  These should be people from the community being policed.

5.     Defund the police where necessary – every community may not need to.  However, I think there are examples where this can help.  There are certain situations where an officer may not be needed.  Most districts do not need military weapons.  This has been spoken about at length so I wont go into depth.  And yes, some districts may be so corrupt that they may need a much larger overhaul. 

6.     Proactive ways to prevent crime – Its cheaper to pay for a kid to attend college than it is to incarcerate them. We need to move from where its incentivized to incarcerate people and focus on proactive measures.   This can come in the form of better education, programs to keep kids busy and off the streets, programs to incentivize students to do well and get a free ride to college, etc. 

Thoughts?  Feedback?  Feel free to add.  I feel like we arent talking about solutions enough. 

All look reasonable to me.

#3 needs to be well thought out but the right idea

#5 rather than saying defund the police I think this is just about proper budgeting and agreeing that police should not be used in certain circumstances...there is probably some disagreement though on budgeting and what circumstances (they should have been used in policing the wendys protests for example)

#6 i get it, but this is more about social program than police reform.  and i'd say trade school better than more bloated college degrees that go nowhere.

I'd add including more clarity for officers around when to let suspects go.  We have a bunch of internet heros saying how police officers should perform in split second situations where we expect them to apprehend violent criminals while holding them completely accountable for outcomes driven by said violent criminals.  just agree to let them go or provide greater clarity.

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19 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Agreed.  Here is my 10 point plan for police reform.  I put this together quickly so i'm sure i forgot some things. 

1.     Tone at the top needs to change – Often these officers are being trained to do things that lead to a bad interaction, shooting, death or brutality.  Police Chiefs are forcing officers to stop and frisk and/or target POC.  This needs to be addressed.  Hold these people responsible.  Whether that be fines, jailtime, etc.  If the tone at the top does not change neither will the policing.  If an officer does something that kills a person and they were doing what they were trained to do, then hold the people at the top responsible.

2.     Better training – Officers need to be trained better to do many things including:  De-escalating interactions, subdueing people without shooting them(martial arts, being in shape, etc), Bias training to ensure racial bias’ aren’t playing a role in responding differently to different types of people.  Also make the requirements for becoming an officer higher.  Require a criminal justice or science degree.  We cant have people joining with little training and then give them a gun and say have at it.  Pay them better as a result.  Lets include background checks and ensure that people that are say white supremacists arent being hired. 

3.     Oversight/review boards – People that hold officers and precincts accountable that do not report to police leadership.  They should be more likely to be objective as a result.  These should be people from the community being policed.

4.     Significant community interaction by all officers – This could mean incentives to live in the communities being policed, regular proactive interactions like coffee with a cop, etc.  Positive interactions between the police and the community are extremely important towards reducing tension and irrational bias’ on both sides which should make things safer for both police and the community.  If i get pulled over by bob the officer and i know bob and we knows me and we have had many positive interactions, i'm likely to be less nervous as will the officer. 

5.     Defund the police where necessary – every community may not need to.  However, I think there are examples where this can help.  There are certain situations where an officer may not be needed.  Most districts do not need military weapons.  This has been spoken about at length so I wont go into depth.  And yes, some districts may be so corrupt that they may need a much larger overhaul. 

6.     Proactive ways to prevent crime – Its cheaper to pay for a kid to attend college than it is to incarcerate them. We need to move from where its incentivized to incarcerate people and focus on proactive measures.   This can come in the form of better education, programs to keep kids busy and off the streets, programs to incentivize students to do well and get a free ride to college, etc. 

7.     Mental health needs to be addressed – There seems to be an uptick in mental health issues.  I'm sure there are proactive measures here as well that can reduce the number of mentally ill people in the community. 

8.     Juries need to be diverse and representative of the community – Many people try to get out of Jury duty often because they cant afford to miss work.  This needs to be addressed as it often causes less diverse juries which can lead to a more biased jury which can lead to higher incarceration rates for POC. 

9.     Decriminalize and/or legalize marijuana – There are too many people incarcerated on minor drug charges and once you are in the system its difficult to get out. 

10.  Better data on police interactions – Right now there is a significant problem in data tracking things like police shootings or violence.  Not all precincts even report data.  This needs to change. 

Thoughts?  Feedback?  Feel free to add.  I feel like we arent talking about solutions enough. 

One idea that I have seen is have a rotation going for the police.   Training - On Duty - off duty.  Not sure how long each of those last, but there should be a lot more updated training - bias training, de-escalation, judgement in tense situations, etc, etc, etc..  

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2 hours ago, jplvr said:

You don’t fix it by getting rid of police. 

That's not the solution we're after. Police don't need military weapons to do their jobs, and they certainly don't need to abuse their power by unfairly targeting people of color, and above all, they shouldn't be protecting the cops who do those things. Fix those things.

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19 minutes ago, Kal El said:

That's not the solution we're after. Police don't need military weapons to do their jobs, and they certainly don't need to abuse their power by unfairly targeting people of color, and above all, they shouldn't be protecting the cops who do those things. Fix those things.

And start by treating citizens with respect. Not like 2nd class citizens even if they have done something wrong.

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22 hours ago, Kal El said:

That's not the solution we're after. Police don't need military weapons to do their jobs, and they certainly don't need to abuse their power by unfairly targeting people of color, and above all, they shouldn't be protecting the cops who do those things. Fix those things.

What military weapons are you talking about, most of the police I see walking around carry a handgun.  Are they rolling up in tanks to arrest people for DUI’s?

Are you talking about what they use when there is a hostage situation or a bank robbery or warrant to arrest a violent suspect?  Are you suggesting they are limited to handguns?

I support the rest.

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On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 9:55 PM, gianmarco said:

And start by treating citizens with respect. Not like 2nd class citizens even if they have done something wrong.

Much easier said than done. 

In my golf league there are 2 black Detroit Police officers who talk about this very topic. They tell me when you go to work you deal with regular people day in and day out.  When we go to work in the bad areas all day long every day we are dealing with people who are shooting others, assaulting others, wife beatings, car jackings, break ins, fights, vandalism  They hardly ever deal with just regular nice people.  After awhile you just get worn down..much like doctors and nurses who basically only deal with sick people and stop treating people as individuals.  Because healthy people go home and another sick person takes their place.

In the streets in high crime areas though it never ends, it is the same day after day. 

So it is a tough job and mistakes are made.  I always think about athletes that make a stupid mistake under pressure in a game...except it is only a game and they go home at night.  Police make a mistake under pressure and they might not go home, or another person may not go home.   Could not pay me enough to be a cop in todays climate.

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Just now, Da Guru said:

Much easier said than done. 

In my golf league there are 2 black Detroit Police officers who talk about this very topic. They tell me when you go to work you deal with regular people day in and day out.  When we go to work in the bad areas all day long every day we are dealing with people who are shooting others, assaulting others, wife beatings, car jackings, break ins, fights, vandalism  They hardly ever deal with just regular nice people.  After awhile you just get worn down..much like doctors and nurses who basically only deal with sick people and stop treating people as individuals.  Because healthy people go home and another sick person takes their place.

In the streets in high crime areas though it never ends, it is the same day after day. 

So it is a tough job and mistakes are made.  I always think about athletes that make a stupid mistake under pressure in a game...except it is only a game and they go home at night.  Police make a mistake under pressure and they might not go home, or another person may not go home.   Could not pay me enough to be a cop in todays climate.

If we were just talking about a high crime area or city, then MAYBE I'll buy this argument.

But the VAST majority of cities and areas are not like this.  Most officers don't encounter it non-stop.  Especially highway patrol who are there for traffic stops yet still almost always have a ####ty attitude and treat the people they stop without respect. 

We've gone over the argument of how dangerous it is to be a cop.  It doesn't even rank in the top 10, IIRC.  There was a total of 48 deaths of police officers in the line of duty in 2019.  Would prefer that number to be 0, obviously, but we're talking, on average, 1 police officer dying per state for an entire year. 

I don't buy that argument. 

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13 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

If we were just talking about a high crime area or city, then MAYBE I'll buy this argument.

But the VAST majority of cities and areas are not like this.  Most officers don't encounter it non-stop.  Especially highway patrol who are there for traffic stops yet still almost always have a ####ty attitude and treat the people they stop without respect. 

We've gone over the argument of how dangerous it is to be a cop.  It doesn't even rank in the top 10, IIRC.  There was a total of 48 deaths of police officers in the line of duty in 2019.  Would prefer that number to be 0, obviously, but we're talking, on average, 1 police officer dying per state for an entire year. 

I don't buy that argument. 

Not selling it...just relaying what has been told to me.

When you say other jobs are more dangerous that may be true, but those are accidental deaths.  Every traffic stop has the potential to be a problem and that raises stress level.

Right now the freeways around Metro-Detroit are like the autobahn.  Hardly any police presence.  If you are going 85 you better be in the right lane.  So maybe that is the answer.  Other than accidents just let traffic violations go. There will be much less interactions with the public that way.

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27 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

If we were just talking about a high crime area or city, then MAYBE I'll buy this argument.

But the VAST majority of cities and areas are not like this.  Most officers don't encounter it non-stop.  Especially highway patrol who are there for traffic stops yet still almost always have a ####ty attitude and treat the people they stop without respect. 

We've gone over the argument of how dangerous it is to be a cop.  It doesn't even rank in the top 10, IIRC.  There was a total of 48 deaths of police officers in the line of duty in 2019.  Would prefer that number to be 0, obviously, but we're talking, on average, 1 police officer dying per state for an entire year. 

I don't buy that argument. 

It's 89 deaths in the line of duty.  Of these, 48 officers died as a result of felonious acts, and 41 officers died in accidents.  

fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

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35 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Especially highway patrol who are there for traffic stops yet still almost always have a ####ty attitude and treat the people they stop without respect

I think this statement is ridiculous. Let me guess you base it off the opinions of people that have been pulled over? 

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45 minutes ago, kodycutter said:

It's 89 deaths in the line of duty.  Of these, 48 officers died as a result of felonious acts, and 41 officers died in accidents.  

fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

Right that’s 48 incidents of death that isn’t accounted in any other civilian job.  48 to zero. 

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

If we were just talking about a high crime area or city, then MAYBE I'll buy this argument.

But the VAST majority of cities and areas are not like this.  Most officers don't encounter it non-stop. 
....,..

I don't buy that argument. 

We should take a look at the areas of the shootings we are taking about and not lump it in with all of suburbia of America.  

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5 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Most police officers in the UK are unarmed

While we clearly have more guns per citizen, most are lawfully owned and people aren't out to shoot police officers.

Wish there was a way to start to implement the same here.

There’s no way on Gods green earth that I’d ask a police officer to go to work unarmed in this country 

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Had a guy in Lansing yesterday who argued with a guy because he didn’t want to wear a mask, was refused service and escorted out, who then waited for the customer he argued with to come out, stabbed, and killed him. Sheriff found the suspect and shot him as he approached her with a knife and screwdriver. Glad she was able to defend herself and the community. 
One of the good ones

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Anyone heard about what’s going on in Portland supposedly???

Not sure if there’s another thread it’s being discussed but the word is that Federal police are abducting law abiding citizens off the street. 

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14 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

Anyone heard about what’s going on in Portland supposedly???

Not sure if there’s another thread it’s being discussed but the word is that Federal police are abducting law abiding citizens off the street. 

 

Check out the "Are we already living in a dictatorship" thread. Its awful. And scary. And someone is going to get killed because of it.

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37 minutes ago, NREC34 said:

Anyone heard about what’s going on in Portland supposedly???

Not sure if there’s another thread it’s being discussed but the word is that Federal police are abducting law abiding citizens off the street. 

Yea and on the other end of the spectrum, federal employees safety was being compromised by the violent aspect of these protests.......this isn't just a buncha federal agents showing up messing with peaceful protesters......there is a criminal element, and there are innocent people working in federal buildings who shouldn't be put in harm's way by these emboldened criminals.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Manster said:

Yea and on the other end of the spectrum, federal employees safety was being compromised by the violent aspect of these protests.......this isn't just a buncha federal agents showing up messing with peaceful protesters......there is a criminal element, and there are innocent people working in federal buildings who shouldn't be put in harm's way by these emboldened criminals.

Yeah, but its much more convincing when you leave details and context out.

Edited by BladeRunner
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13 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Yeah, but its much more convincing when you leave details and context out.

Would love to read these details/context. Has anyone seen anything written up?

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Par for the course so far as the fans of the right wing authoritarian President roll in to defend the extra legal detention of political dissidents. Great path we're on here.

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1 minute ago, mcintyre1 said:

Par for the course so far as the fans of the right wing authoritarian President roll in to defend the extra legal detention of political dissidents. Great path we're on here.

Another one of those “can you imagine if Obama did that....”

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1 minute ago, mcintyre1 said:

Par for the course so far as the fans of the right wing authoritarian President roll in to defend the extra legal detention of political dissidents. Great path we're on here.

And laugh at the situation...while complaining details are being left out.  Details they seem unable to and unwilling to provide links to yet again.

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1 minute ago, mcintyre1 said:

Par for the course so far as the fans of the right wing authoritarian President roll in to defend the extra legal detention of political dissidents. Great path we're on here.

This is funny coming from the guy who I perceive supports a party that wants to move us to the far left and their tactics. Antifa and BLM are just peaceful moments, right?  Socialism and communism have a great track record, right?

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27 minutes ago, Manster said:

Yea and on the other end of the spectrum, federal employees safety was being compromised by the violent aspect of these protests.......this isn't just a buncha federal agents showing up messing with peaceful protesters......there is a criminal element, and there are innocent people working in federal buildings who shouldn't be put in harm's way by these emboldened criminals.

Ok. But surely you'd agree that there is a right way to arrest a criminal. And this is not that way.

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10 minutes ago, -jb- said:

Would love to read these details/context. Has anyone seen anything written up?

If you read the "less" biased news sources, you'd see that they are reporting that there is a threat to the federal employees and properties.  That's why outside support was sent in......of course the lefty media is gonna make it seem like it's a bunch of big bad feds showing up to bust up the drum circle

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Just now, Manster said:

If you read the "less" biased news sources, you'd see that they are reporting that there is a threat to the federal employees and properties.  That's why outside support was sent in......of course the lefty media is gonna make it seem like it's a bunch of big bad feds showing up to bust up the drum circle

Could you point me to one?  The only thing I have been able to find via internet search discussed a protestor being detained without cause, far away from federal property.  Totally get why feds would want to protect federal property, just haven’t seen anything. Thx!

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3 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Ok. But surely you'd agree that there is a right way to arrest a criminal. And this is not that way.

Honestly, I have no idea what's really going on down there.  We are getting a snippet.  These things are not gonna be nice and neat......I don't believe it's just a buncha jack booted federal thugs taking people out though

What about the law abiding citizens who are just trying to go to and from work?  Do they have less rights than protesters? 

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