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Another killing at the hands of the Police (9 Viewers)

SHIZNITTTT said:
I keep seeing sex offender label being used on the deceased victim.  I read in one of the above links that he was 19 and the victim was 14.  I also think I read he did 5 years in prison for that crime.  5 years seems excessive.  Oh well, back to painting the victim with his past transgressions I guess to make the shooting less terrible?  
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It has been that way if you check out the prior 64 pages of this thread, trashing the character of the victim is always the default response.

 
squistion said:
It has been that way if you check out the prior 64 pages of this thread, trashing the character of the victim is always the default response.
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And trashing law enforcement is yours and the rest default response.  But you don't see that part.  Just like to decide how you would be a cop much differently when you're not even there.   I'll bet crime would drop dramatically if a few of the message board libs on here were running things. 

 
flapgreen said:
And trashing law enforcement is yours and the rest default response.  But you don't see that part.  Just like to decide how you would be a cop much differently when you're not even there.   I'll bet crime would drop dramatically if a few of the message board libs on here were running things. 
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Probably not.

However if you want to erect gallows on every street corner, suspend due process and hang people on the spot without being charged, tried and convicted, then I can assure you crime would indeed dramatically drop. But Draconian measures, while always effective, are not what most people want in this country and actually never have (as evidenced by The Constitution).

 
Obviously we don't know what happened before the camera started rolling,  but with no video,  it doesn't matter. The cop will say the driver went for his gun. The passenger will say he didn't. And shockingly,  the investigators will side with the cop. 

 
whoknew said:
Obviously we don't know what happened before the camera started rolling,  but with no video,  it doesn't matter. The cop will say the driver went for his gun. The passenger will say he didn't. And shockingly,  the investigators will side with the cop. 
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It would be hard to buy that pig tale considering there was a woman and a child in the vehicle. "Let me see here. Let me get into a gunfight here with my girlfriend and daughter here because this motherducker pulled me over for a broken taillight."

 
Fariq said:
It would be hard to buy that pig tale considering there was a woman and a child in the vehicle. "Let me see here. Let me get into a gunfight here with my girlfriend and daughter here because this motherducker pulled me over for a broken taillight."
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So far 526 people have been killed by police this year according to https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

Meh, what is the worst that can happen?  Probation?  Fired from your job?  Trying to remember the last time a police office went to prison after killing someone in the line of duty.   A lot of trials and wasted tax payer money to put on a sham trial to appease the community, only to make them more pissed off when the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict.   

 
squistion said:
Probably not.

However if you want to erect gallows on every street corner, suspend due process and hang people on the spot without being charged, tried and convicted, then I can assure you crime would indeed dramatically drop. But Draconian measures, while always effective, are not what most people want in this country and actually never have (as evidenced by The Constitution).
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<beginRant>

Hah!  A progressive talking about the Constitution as if they care about it.  That's funny.  Every time we hear from them they talk about rewriting or scrapping major portions of it because they don't like it and it's, y'know, old.

</endRant>

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
So far 526 people have been killed by police this year according to https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

Meh, what is the worst that can happen?  Probation?  Fired from your job?  Trying to remember the last time a police office went to prison after killing someone in the line of duty.   A lot of trials and wasted tax payer money to put on a sham trial to appease the community, only to make them more pissed off when the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict.   
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Plus if you are fired,  there's always a job waiting for you as a Fox News contributor. 

 
rockaction said:
The concept of the rule of law stunk today and yesterday for the people. That is all. It seems our betters get to answer to themselves. 
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If I'm reading this correctly you're drawing a connection between the FBI's decision not to indict Hillary Clinton for having a private email server, with these two instances of black men being shot to death by police officers? Seriously? 

 
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Ditka Butkus said:
This one is bad...Cop f-ed up big time....I hope if I ever get shot my wife is more concerned about my welfare than getting on facebook...
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I hear you but a couple of points-

1) it seems like she thought he was only shot in the arm. She keeps saying that. 

2) these videos are important. Without them - well how often did you hear about cops shooting black people 15 years ago? 

 
Ditka Butkus said:
This one is bad...Cop f-ed up big time....I hope if I ever get shot and am bleeding out my wife is more concerned about my welfare than getting on facebook...
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she was pretty calm during that whole thing....and not one mention of the child that i could hear....but ya .her asking FB to pray was strange ....but awful thing to watch and if the kid was complying then this is just another murder  

i want to know why the GF was arrested....the mother of the guy who was killed said they havent heard or seen the GF since she was  arrested....thats odd as well 

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Say nothing.  Call your attorney.  Your attorney will quickly explain that you are so stunned and distraught that you called him as a friend for support, not so much as an attorney, and that he, your attorney is here to see that they, the police, get the best and proper cooperation, something they would not get from you not because you are uncooperative, to the contrary, because you are so distraught at the loss that you are essentially incoherent. 

If you have made no statements then there is nothing to misconstrue.  You may think that a prosecution could paint you as uncooperative if you don't participate.  First off there is far less chance there will ever be a prosecution of you, and second, your attorney can easily sell you were distraught to the point of incoherence, as would be any innocent man, and you were cooperating by bringing in a professional who knows you and could answer all of the police proper questions professionally, to expedite the search for the killer.

Any statement can be misunderstood, misheard, or misconstrued, any statement.  Perhaps you can explain to me what you might gain by talking to them.  Be specific in what you would say and the rest of us can have fun deliberately trying to misconstrue your innocent help  as something sinister.  I bet we can do so.
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And THIS is why everyone should have an attorney.  

 
Ilov80s said:
It would be nice if the NRA got involved here. If the story went down as the GF describes, this is a major violation of the rights of a gun owner and is a threat to all gun owners.
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It does almost seem like only certain types of people are supposed to carry guns.

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
I keep seeing sex offender label being used on the deceased victim.  I read in one of the above links that he was 19 and the victim was 14.  I also think I read he did 5 years in prison for that crime.  5 years seems excessive.  Oh well, back to painting the victim with his past transgressions I guess to make the shooting less terrible?  
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Really?  A 19 year old should have enough sense to be messing with a 14 year old.  5 years seems about right to me.

 
"Castile is at least the 506th person shot and killed by police so far in 2016, according to a Washington Post database that tracks such shootings.

He is one of 123 black Americans shot and killed by police so far in 2016, according to the database. About 10 percent of the black Americans shot and killed were unarmed at the time of the shooting, while about 61 percent were armed with a gun."

Who are the other 383 meaningless victims?

 
Ditka Butkus said:
"Castile is at least the 506th person shot and killed by police so far in 2016, according to a Washington Post database that tracks such shootings.

He is one of 123 black Americans shot and killed by police so far in 2016, according to the database. About 10 percent of the black Americans shot and killed were unarmed at the time of the shooting, while about 61 percent were armed with a gun."

Who are the other 383 meaningless victims?
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Good point.  If I read this right about 12 of the 506 people shot and killed by police in 2016 (2%) were unarmed black men.

 
The area of town this happened in (Falcon Heights/Roseville area is near the Fairgrounds/Como Zoo) isn't exactly the hood. And the police that responded were from St Anthony - one of the most serene inner-ring suburbs in the MSP metro.

It's already being made out as such, but IMO this doesn't fit the pattern of what we typically think of as "cop on black man crime." It really just seems like a quick succession of events that led to a horrible judgement call by the police officer. 

 
In the Castile case ..it would be interesting to know if the cop had the gun trained on him or did he do a "Quick Draw McGraw" once Castile made the slightest move...In other words what about this routine stop made the cop so jumpy... (the fact he was black)?..I don't like to see the word murdered in these instances, it only fuels the race issues... I find it hard to believe we have a bunch of serial killers for cops...It seems more likely we have a bunch of under trained scared individuals that are cops....Shouldn't be in a job that requires quick decisions and restraint.

 
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Andy Dufresne said:
The area of town this happened in (Falcon Heights/Roseville area is near the Fairgrounds/Como Zoo) isn't exactly the hood. And the police that responded were from St Anthony - one of the most serene inner-ring suburbs in the MSP metro.

It's already being made out as such, but IMO this doesn't fit the pattern of what we typically think of as "cop on black man crime." It really just seems like a quick succession of events that led to a horrible judgement call by the police officer. 
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Do you think it's normal for a cop in this neighborhood to pull someone over for a busted tailpipe? 

(not being argumentative - I don't know the area)

 
I once got pulled over for a non-working tail light and ended up with an open container ticket....Cop told me he pulled me over just to warn me to get it fixed, because most times a driver is unaware their tail light is not working (I just happened to have been drinking a beer)...Being pulled over for a non working tail light is very normal and not at all unusual/racist.

 
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Ditka Butkus said:
"Castile is at least the 506th person shot and killed by police so far in 2016, according to a Washington Post database that tracks such shootings.

He is one of 123 black Americans shot and killed by police so far in 2016, according to the database. About 10 percent of the black Americans shot and killed were unarmed at the time of the shooting, while about 61 percent were armed with a gun."

Who are the other 383 meaningless victims?
Click to expand...
That evidence sure seems to point in the direction of race not being that big of a factor.

 
whoknew said:
Obviously we don't know what happened before the camera started rolling,  but with no video,  it doesn't matter. The cop will say the driver went for his gun. The passenger will say he didn't. And shockingly,  the investigators will side with the cop. 
Click to expand...
The problem is time and time again these "eye witnesses" turn out to be full of #### and either have their testimony found to be inaccurate or downright fabricated. Guarantee if he had reached for the gun the girlfriend would have been saying the exact same thing just to stir up #### and build on the Us vs Them narrative (or for her 15mins of fame). Hopefully there is body cam footage or something else to clear things up... as IF she'd telling the truth, cop needs to be locked up. I just find her story REALLY hard to believe.

The "Us vs Them" thing is huge. Buddy (White) was driving through the wrong part of Memphis one night and someone (Black guy) ran a redlight and Tboned him.  Late at night and nobody really around. Within minutes there were a dozen "witnesses" (black) coming out of the woodwork drawn to the blue lights saying my buddy ran the red light, not the other party. There are tons of other stories similar to this, or in police related shootings where the testimony is found to be total BS. 

We ALL want bad cops off the streets.... but this "Guilty until proven innocent" mindset toward the police in certain circles is downright sad. 
 

 
[icon] said:
The problem is time and time again these "eye witnesses" turn out to be full of #### and either have their testimony found to be inaccurate or downright fabricated. Guarantee if he had reached for the gun the girlfriend would have been saying the exact same thing just to stir up #### and build on the Us vs Them narrative (or for her 15mins of fame). Hopefully there is body cam footage or something else to clear things up... as IF she'd telling the truth, cop needs to be locked up. I just find her story REALLY hard to believe.
 
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Obviously still short of details, but I'd find the cop's story harder to believe, absent other facts coming to light.  If he had warrants for his arrest or some contraband in the car, maybe.  But reaching for a gun with a kid in the car to get out of a ticket for a broken tail light seems pretty unfathomable to me. ETA:  And the cop didn't disagree on the video when the girlfriend said he asked him to get his ID.

 
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I have a permit to carry.

I'm not excusing the cop but...if the guy was carrying and had his hands in his lap instead of on the steering wheel then he made a bad mistake. Of course, not one he should be shot for. But a mistake nonetheless.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
I once got pulled over for a non-working tail light and ended up with an open container ticket....Cop told me he pulled me over just to warn me to get it fixed, because most times a driver is unaware their tail light is not working (I just happened to have been drinking a beer)...Being pulled over for a non working tail light is very normal and not at all unusual/racist.
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yet we will now here about how dangerous traffic stops are for cops because they are isolated and not in total control of the situation...that'll be the start of the argument for a justified homicide here. then the cop just needs to say he was scared, and he'll get off. 

 
In the end it just doesn't matter.  All the cop has to do is say, "I was in fear for my life!" or, "I thought he was going for a gun/weapon!" or,  some other excuse.  Very hard to convict a cop of a shooting even with eyewitnesses, and video that contradicts police reports.    Again, it is awful that this happened, but we will talking about another victim/criminal in a few days.  Move along.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
"Castile is at least the 506th person shot and killed by police so far in 2016, according to a Washington Post database that tracks such shootings.

He is one of 123 black Americans shot and killed by police so far in 2016, according to the database. About 10 percent of the black Americans shot and killed were unarmed at the time of the shooting, while about 61 percent were armed with a gun."

Who are the other 383 meaningless victims?
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'Armed with a gun'

They were probably armed with something else.

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
In the end it just doesn't matter.  All the cop has to do is say, "I was in fear for my life!" or, "I thought he was going for a gun/weapon!" or,  some other excuse.  Very hard to convict a cop of a shooting even with eyewitnesses, and video that contradicts police reports.    Again, it is awful that this happened, but we will talking about another victim/criminal in a few days.  Move along.
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Just another day in America. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I have a permit to carry.

I'm not excusing the cop but...if the guy was carrying and had his hands in his lap instead of on the steering wheel then he made a bad mistake. Of course, not one he should be shot for. But a mistake nonetheless.
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You want a man sitting in a passenger seat to place his hands on the steering wheel?

 
comfortably numb said:
You want a man sitting in a passenger seat to place his hands on the steering wheel?
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He was driving.

And yes, both the driver and passenger should have their hands in plain view. Driver on wheel, passenger on dashboard.

You should do this whether carrying or not. Its an easy way to increase your chances of getting out of a ticket.

 
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Andy Dufresne said:
I have a permit to carry.

I'm not excusing the cop but...if the guy was carrying and had his hands in his lap instead of on the steering wheel then he made a bad mistake. Of course, not one he should be shot for. But a mistake nonetheless.
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Is there a protocol for someone carrying to get their ID out, since they have to take their hands off the wheel for that?  (Not trying to make any type of argument; genuinely curious as I don't carry.)

 
Don Quixote said:
Is there a protocol for someone carrying to get their ID out, since they have to take their hands off the wheel for that?  (Not trying to make any type of argument; genuinely curious as I don't carry.)
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you should inform the officer if your ID and CCW are in the same vicinity and let him instruct you on what to do next (i.e. step out of the car, let him clear the weapon, etc.)

 
Don Quixote said:
Is there a protocol for someone carrying to get their ID out, since they have to take their hands off the wheel for that?  (Not trying to make any type of argument; genuinely curious as I don't carry.)
Click to expand...
There are guidelines they teach you in class. Generally, you should spell out the situation explicitly for the officer and tell him exactly what you're going to do next and get his permission.

I don't know exactly how this situation was set up/went down. But let's say my permit is in my pocket and my gun is on my hip. I would have my interior dome lights on and my hands on the wheel. When the officer asked for license/registration/whatever, I'd say "Officer, I have a permit to carry. My permit is in my left, front pocket and my firearm is on my left hip. What do you want me to do next?"

Let them tell you what they expect from you and then do it - to the letter.

 
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