Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
In The Zone

Another killing at the hands of the Police

Recommended Posts

No way could I convict the cop based on that video.

Of anything?

The video shows him on the ground wrestling with Scott and what appears to be his taser flying off behind him. Attacking a cop is an extremely brazen thing to do and the cop would naturally be concerned for his life.

After finding out Scott ran in the first place because there was a warrant out for his arrest for failure to pay child support I don't have much compassion for him.

At this point, no, I wouldn't convict him of anything.

So no charges related to planting evidence or otherwise tampering with the crime scene either?

of course not, the police does not do that sort of thing

/cstujim11etc

Why do you think I said "at this point"?

Was the taser found next to Scott when the other cops arrived?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No way could I convict the cop based on that video.

Of anything?

The video shows him on the ground wrestling with Scott and what appears to be his taser flying off behind him. Attacking a cop is an extremely brazen thing to do and the cop would naturally be concerned for his life.

After finding out Scott ran in the first place because there was a warrant out for his arrest for failure to pay child support I don't have much compassion for him.

At this point, no, I wouldn't convict him of anything.

So no charges related to planting evidence or otherwise tampering with the crime scene either?

Maybe the tazer belonged to the dead guy and the cop was just giving it back.

"Oh, my bad...haha, I didn't even have a taser, it was his the whole time!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing in the video shows the perp reaching for a taser or attacking the officer first.

I can't believe people are still defending the cop here.

Frame by frame analysis of the video.

I saw that. Multiple times and before it was posted in here.

They mention the officer holding what might be a taser and that it appears nothing was ever in the suspect's hands. They also mention that the two were possibly wrestling on the ground at the start of the video. Neither of those equate to the perp reaching for a taser or attacking the officer.

Edited by hxperson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing in the video shows the perp reaching for a taser or attacking the officer first.

I can't believe people are still defending the cop here.

Frame by frame analysis of the video.

I saw that. Multiple times and before it was posted in here.

They mention the officer holding what might be a taser and that it appears nothing was ever in the suspect's hands. They also mention that the two were possibly wrestling on the ground at the start of the video. Neither of those equate to the perp reaching for a taser or attacking the officer.

What were they doing on the ground - practicing their wrestling moves?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing in the video shows the perp reaching for a taser or attacking the officer first.

I can't believe people are still defending the cop here.

Frame by frame analysis of the video.

I saw that. Multiple times and before it was posted in here.

They mention the officer holding what might be a taser and that it appears nothing was ever in the suspect's hands. They also mention that the two were possibly wrestling on the ground at the start of the video. Neither of those equate to the perp reaching for a taser or attacking the officer.

What were they doing on the ground - practicing their wrestling moves?

I don't pretend to know. There are many possibilities.

One highly likely one is that the officer may have taken him to the ground and there was a struggle as the perp tried to resist arrest. That is not attacking a police officer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scott did owe back child support — and some have speculated that's why he ran — but he also had minor traffic infractions on his record. South Carolina's Post and Courier reported that Scott had been arrested about 10 times, mostly for failure to appear for court hearings and child support. The paper also said his first arrest was in 1987 for assault and battery, but that could not immediately be confirmed by NBC News.

You never know. He may just never have been caught again for violence in the intervening 28 years. Probably still incredibly dangerous to society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

Wal-Mart Greeter is probably the most dangerous job in the country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

127 police died on duty in 2014.

Approximately 1,450 people were killed by police between May, 2013 and August 2014. It's unknown how many of those were justifiable. I'm guessing more than 127 were not, although it depends on who is doing the justifying. And we don't have video of all of them, usually just the police reports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that we should be holding officers at a higher level of accountability?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that we should be holding officers at a higher level of accountability?

Where did I say we shouldn't?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Those numbers have nothing to do with each other.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Probably not. I've never heard anyone say that things were rampbid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a question as it pertains to "evidence tampering". That question is: when does it become tampering with a crime scene vs being part of the initial incident?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

No. In fact, there are probably way less killings than on-duty deaths for nearly every profession, even "career criminal".

The number of unjustified killings per on duty death is probably higher among police officers than it is among most other professions, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

127 police died on duty in 2014.

Approximately 1,450 people were killed by police between May, 2013 and August 2014. It's unknown how many of those were justifiable. I'm guessing more than 127 were not, although it depends on who is doing the justifying. And we don't have video of all of them, usually just the police reports.

Your number of 1,450 is for 16 months, not 12. It also includes situations like this, where a man who just happened to be a police officer killed two people in a drunk driving accident while in his own personally owned vehicle, and this which was a murder-suicide of a husband and wife who ironically enough for this discussion were both officers.

EDIT - Also, 1,100 is a bit high according to wiki. Looks like there were less than 600 last calendar year.

Edited by matttyl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that we should be holding officers at a higher level of accountability?

The federal government has spent untold millions and Pres Obama called father hood the most important job he has.

https://www.fatherhood.gov/pledge

On of the people involved was a deadbeat dad driving a Mercedes and the other was a doting father.

Shouldn't we hold those who hold a more important job than president at a higher level of accountability?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No way could I convict the cop based on that video.

Of anything?

The video shows him on the ground wrestling with Scott and what appears to be his taser flying off behind him. Attacking a cop is an extremely brazen thing to do and the cop would naturally be concerned for his life.

After finding out Scott ran in the first place because there was a warrant out for his arrest for failure to pay child support I don't have much compassion for him.

At this point, no, I wouldn't convict him of anything.

Deadbeat dads deserve the death penalty? OK.

And SC has a unduly harsh approach to not paying child support. Warrant can be issued after 5 days with penalty up to a year in prison:

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-falling-behind-child-support-can-end-jail#

How falling behind on child support can end in jail

Even before the video surfaced of North Charleston police officer Michael Slager shooting Walter Scott, his family and friends had told the press that they didnt believe the story that Scott had scuffled with police, that he was not a violent guy.

But Scott ran from Slager, family members said, because he feared the police. One reason was because Scott, who had four children, owed back child support, something that in South Carolina and across the country can carry jail time. I believe he didnt want to go to jail again, Scotts father said on The Today Show on Wednesday morning.

Though all 50 states have laws on the books that include jail time for non-payment of child support a penalty that concerns civil libertarians and childrens advocates alike South Carolina has one of the harshest regimes in the country when it comes to punishing parents who dont pay. And theres no evidence that the punitive measures are working: According to federal data, the state is actually below the national average in every single measure of how effectively it is collecting child support funds.

Two surveys of county jails in the South Carolina conducted in the last decade found that at least one out of every eight incarcerated people were there because they had been held in contempt of court for not paying child support. Under South Carolina law, if a family receives public benefits, it takes only five days of a non-custodial parent, usually a father, falling behind on a payment to trigger a civil contempt hearing that could mean ending up in jail for up to a year. And unlike many other states, South Carolina doesnt allow modifications for how much child support is owed if the parent is incarcerated, whether for owing child support or another reason. The result in states without such modifications is that people can easily leave jail owing $15,000 to $30,000 in child support, in addition to other fees related to their incarceration.

All this, according to a brief filed before the Supreme Court co-written by the former director of the South Carolina Department of Social Services, has created a modern day debtors prison for poor noncustodial parents who lack the ability to pay support.

These penalties are levied in the name of supporting children and families, of cracking down on deadbeat dads who create welfare moms. But, says Ann Cammett, a professor at CUNY School of Law and an expert on incarcerated parents who owe child support, We have zero evidence that it works. She adds, If the goal of the child support system is to get support for children, parents cant do that if theyre incarcerated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Those numbers have nothing to do with each other.

Really? If I'm in a profession where my co-workers are being unjustifiably killed, maybe I'd be a little more "quick to draw" and potentially act in a self defensive manner, even if unjustifiably so.

Maybe asked another way - if violence against police literally wasn't a thing in our society, as in it totally didn't exist, do you think the number of killings by police (justified or not) would be so high? If officers literally never had to fear for their safety and/or life.....do you think as many people would be killed by them?

And I'm not asking this question to in any way defense this most recent POS cop who was obviously in the wrong. This just seems to be the thread currently discussing these types of situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm in a profession where my co-workers are being unjustifiably killed,

BY HEART DISEASE?!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a question as it pertains to "evidence tampering". That question is: when does it become tampering with a crime scene vs being part of the initial incident?

After a crime has been committed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm in a profession where my co-workers are being unjustifiably killed,

BY HEART DISEASE?!?

Again, it's why Wal-Mart greeters get testy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

What difference does that make? Why are you comparing police deaths vs deaths at hte hands of police?

Seems like you are implying it's OK for the cops to kill a few innocent civilians since they are being killed at a higher rate...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Those numbers have nothing to do with each other.

Really? If I'm in a profession where my co-workers are being unjustifiably killed, maybe I'd be a little more "quick to draw" and potentially act in a self defensive manner, even if unjustifiably so.

Maybe asked another way - if violence against police literally wasn't a thing in our society, as in it totally didn't exist, do you think the number of killings by police (justified or not) would be so high? If officers literally never had to fear for their safety and/or life.....do you think as many people would be killed by them?

And I'm not asking this question to in any way defense this most recent POS cop who was obviously in the wrong. This just seems to be the thread currently discussing these types of situations.

Yea, you kind of are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Those numbers have nothing to do with each other.

Really? If I'm in a profession where my co-workers are being unjustifiably killed, maybe I'd be a little more "quick to draw" and potentially act in a self defensive manner, even if unjustifiably so.

Maybe asked another way - if violence against police literally wasn't a thing in our society, as in it totally didn't exist, do you think the number of killings by police (justified or not) would be so high? If officers literally never had to fear for their safety and/or life.....do you think as many people would be killed by them?

And I'm not asking this question to in any way defense this most recent POS cop who was obviously in the wrong. This just seems to be the thread currently discussing these types of situations.

This is the "why can't people understand that police should be held to a higher standard" part that you say you acknowledge, yet clearly don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

What difference does that make? Why are you comparing police deaths vs deaths at hte hands of police?

Seems like you are implying it's OK for the cops to kill a few innocent civilians since they are being killed at a higher rate...

Not implying it's OK by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm also a realist and realize that any police type agency guarding the general population isn't going to be perfect, especially when due to the dangerous nature of their jobs they will be in possession of firearms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that we should be holding officers at a higher level of accountability?

The federal government has spent untold millions and Pres Obama called father hood the most important job he has.

https://www.fatherhood.gov/pledge

On of the people involved was a deadbeat dad driving a Mercedes and the other was a doting father.

Shouldn't we hold those who hold a more important job than president at a higher level of accountability?

Well, thats just his opinion, man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cop shouldn't have shot him but I don't feel a lot of compassion for someone stupid enough to try to grab a cop's taser.

That's my gut level reaction, and I think it's time for our country to rally around a need for standards of conduct and contribution. More pressure needs to be placed on individuals by their own communities to assign accountability as a rule, over assigning blame as a rule.

But...

It is evident that certain communities (namely many Black ones) feel deeply alienated (with genuine cause) and that fines and legal repercussions can upend already challenged lives. A combination of factors make a case like this complex: Mistrust that the system is unfair, fear that the system is biased, a sense of financial hopelessness that can be made (even) worse by an expensive fine. It's reasonable to see that (while wrong), this could manifest as a desperation one feels, and a resulting belief that running is an option for self preservation.

Add another level in that the morass of bad behavior that becomes a symptom of these sick communities feeds back into the attitude of those at the helm of the system, who form biases. It's a vicious cycle that reenforces the sense of alienation.

To simply this in any way is to miss he point. What I see are a lot of entrenched groups only willing to see the issue one way, and so it continues,

the accountability is with the cop who shot a man in the back while the man ran away. That is literally the only place.

Very hard to argue that in this case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm in a profession where my co-workers are being unjustifiably killed,

BY HEART DISEASE?!?

Hey, 5th place is motorcycle crash, so take it easy on Eric Estrada here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.

If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.

If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://time.com/3814602/south-carolina-walter-scott-police-shooting-attorney/

Martin and Brown Attorney: How Many More Videos Will It Take, America?

Benjamin Crump April 8, 2015

(Benjamin Crump is an attorney who represents the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tamir Rice.)

We must stop taking the standard police narrative at face value

What started out as a routine traffic stop quickly escalated into the death of Walter Scott. The city of North Charleston, S.C., was all too willing to accept the officers version of events, even though the physical evidence clearly showed that the officer had fired eight shots, with four of the eight shots fired hitting Scott in the back.

Far too often the police come up with the same narrative: I felt threatened, I felt afraid, the victim struggled with me, he reached for my gun. This is the same old story from officers that shoot unarmed black men. If not for the video, the officer would have been believed and his story would never have been questioned by the justice system or city officials.

Ive represented dozens of families of unarmed people of color who have been killed by police officers. And if I had a dollar for every time the reason given by the police was that they reached for my weapon or they attacked me and I felt in fear for my life, I wouldnt have enough room in my pockets. Whats sad is how often the police narrative is accepted, with no one but the family raising questions. The death of an unarmed individual is swept under the rug. Walter Scotts death was well on the way to being swept under the rugbut for the video. Therein lies the problem.

This video was shocking to much of America, but for many of us it was a scene we have experienced so many times in our communities that we werent shocked at all. When I saw it, I imagined how many times evidence has been planted, how ­many times untrue stories have been given as official statements, to help justify the killing of innocent people of color. Without the video it would be difficult for us to ascertain exactly what did occur, the mayor of the North Charleston, Keith Summey, said. But is that really true? I do not agree that it would be difficult. An unarmed black man is shot multiple times from behind while he is fleeing from an officer? That does not point to justified use of deadly force.

If this video shocked you, how about the video of the beating of Floyd Dent in Inkster, Mich., or the video of the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice in Cleveland, Ohio? What about the video of the shooting of Antonio Zambrano-Montes in Pasco, Washington, and the video of the beating of Alesia Thomas, in Los Angeles, both of whom later died?

Why are we still automatically accepting the police narrative? How many shocking videos of police misconduct do we need to show you, America, before you quit accepting the narrative?

North Charleston Police Chief Eddie Driggers, referring to his officers, said, One does not throw a blanket across the many. I agree with this statement. It should also apply to black men and all people of color.

There is a blanket of distrust, disrespect and indifference that has been thrown across black men in America. And it is resulting in too many deaths at hands of armed police officers who claim they are afraid

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Yeah. Hilarious.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Those numbers have nothing to do with each other.

Really? If I'm in a profession where my co-workers are being unjustifiably killed, maybe I'd be a little more "quick to draw" and potentially act in a self defensive manner, even if unjustifiably so.

Maybe asked another way - if violence against police literally wasn't a thing in our society, as in it totally didn't exist, do you think the number of killings by police (justified or not) would be so high? If officers literally never had to fear for their safety and/or life.....do you think as many people would be killed by them?

And I'm not asking this question to in any way defense this most recent POS cop who was obviously in the wrong. This just seems to be the thread currently discussing these types of situations.

This is the "why can't people understand that police should be held to a higher standard" part that you say you acknowledge, yet clearly don't.

I'm attempting to be a realist when dealing with a very complicated, and due to recent events - heated issue. Police are humans, just like the rest of us. Should they be held to a higher standard due to their occupation - of course they should. Should this recent officer face trial, and likely bear an extreme punishment for his actions - yes he should.

A few weeks ago I was pulled over for speeding. Middle of the day, clear skies, but not on a very heavily traveled road. As the officer approached my car, the thought going through my head was how scared he must be - he's got no idea what he's walking into. He doesn't know me, or what I'm capable of. I live in an area where gun ownership is very high, and where you can conceal and carry. He's potentially walking into a very dangerous situation, due to the nature of his job. A few weeks back there was expensive police activity a mile or two from my house where a guy was apparently high on something and threatening to kill his wife and himself - but they rolled in and diffused the situation without any serious harm to anyone involved. They are humans, with emotions, not robots. The moment they let their guard down, that could be the moment they or someone else gets hurt or worse.

I'm just afraid that, due to the horrible actions of this officer, and the possible and even potential negative actions of others - that the entire police force of our country is getting a negative wrap unfairly. Can police forces be improved? Sure they can, but what part of our society couldn't be improved?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Those numbers have nothing to do with each other.

Really? If I'm in a profession where my co-workers are being unjustifiably killed, maybe I'd be a little more "quick to draw" and potentially act in a self defensive manner, even if unjustifiably so.

Maybe asked another way - if violence against police literally wasn't a thing in our society, as in it totally didn't exist, do you think the number of killings by police (justified or not) would be so high? If officers literally never had to fear for their safety and/or life.....do you think as many people would be killed by them?

And I'm not asking this question to in any way defense this most recent POS cop who was obviously in the wrong. This just seems to be the thread currently discussing these types of situations.

I'll play Devil's Advocate here...

One could argue (and I'm sure that there are people that really do) that if perhaps there would be less violence against cops if cops weren't so violent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll play Devil's Advocate here...

One could argue (and I'm sure that there are people that really do) that if perhaps there would be less violence against cops if cops weren't so violent.

Yes, very much a chicken and egg thing here. That's where I was going. And the more chickens you have....the more eggs you'll have - and vice-verse. Are there problems that can be fixed with our police departments - sure. The same things can be said about our communities as well. Chickens and eggs.

Also, and this is also kinda my point - your underlined seems to be lumping all officers together in one group with similar characteristics.

Edited by matttyl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll play Devil's Advocate here...

One could argue (and I'm sure that there are people that really do) that if perhaps there would be less violence against cops if cops weren't so violent.

Yes, very much a chicken and egg thing here. That's where I was going. And the more chickens you have....the more eggs you'll have - and vice-verse. Are there problems that can be fixed with our police departments - sure. The same things can be said about our communities as well. Chickens and eggs.

Also, and this is also kinda my point - your underlined seems to be lumping all officers together in one group with similar characteristics.

Seeing as you seem to think it's fine for an officer to assume every citizen is a furtive move away from pulling a gun and killing them, then it would seem to be fair for the citizens to have the same attitude about police. Especially given recent events.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honest question. Do people here feel that there are more unjustified killings of innocent people by police, or more police officer deaths while on duty.

For reference, there seem to be anywhere from 100-200 on duty officer deaths per year. I'm not sure it's of any importance, just curious what people think.

Doesn't that include things like auto accidents and heart attacks?

Yes, but they are still on duty deaths.

OK, not sure where you are going here though.

I'm not really going anywhere. Just curious. People apparently believe that these unjustified killings by police (hence the thread title of "another killing") are rampid. Do they feel there are enough of them to outpace the number of police officers killed in the line of duty? Again, honest question.

Those numbers have nothing to do with each other.

Really? If I'm in a profession where my co-workers are being unjustifiably killed, maybe I'd be a little more "quick to draw" and potentially act in a self defensive manner, even if unjustifiably so.

Maybe asked another way - if violence against police literally wasn't a thing in our society, as in it totally didn't exist, do you think the number of killings by police (justified or not) would be so high? If officers literally never had to fear for their safety and/or life.....do you think as many people would be killed by them?

And I'm not asking this question to in any way defense this most recent POS cop who was obviously in the wrong. This just seems to be the thread currently discussing these types of situations.

This is the "why can't people understand that police should be held to a higher standard" part that you say you acknowledge, yet clearly don't.

I'm attempting to be a realist when dealing with a very complicated, and due to recent events - heated issue. Police are humans, just like the rest of us. Should they be held to a higher standard due to their occupation - of course they should. Should this recent officer face trial, and likely bear an extreme punishment for his actions - yes he should.

A few weeks ago I was pulled over for speeding. Middle of the day, clear skies, but not on a very heavily traveled road. As the officer approached my car, the thought going through my head was how scared he must be - he's got no idea what he's walking into. He doesn't know me, or what I'm capable of. I live in an area where gun ownership is very high, and where you can conceal and carry. He's potentially walking into a very dangerous situation, due to the nature of his job. A few weeks back there was expensive police activity a mile or two from my house where a guy was apparently high on something and threatening to kill his wife and himself - but they rolled in and diffused the situation without any serious harm to anyone involved. They are humans, with emotions, not robots. The moment they let their guard down, that could be the moment they or someone else gets hurt or worse.

I'm just afraid that, due to the horrible actions of this officer, and the possible and even potential negative actions of others - that the entire police force of our country is getting a negative wrap unfairly. Can police forces be improved? Sure they can, but what part of our society couldn't be improved?

So, a cop should be excused when they kill an unarmed civilian because it's a high risk job?

The courts have already said that I can't shoot through my front door if someone I don't know knocks on my door at 3am just because I'm scared.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, a cop should be excused when they kill an unarmed civilian because it's a high risk job?

The courts have already said that I can't shoot through my front door if someone I don't know knocks on my door at 3am just because I'm scared.

A cop, as in the one who committed the act - no. What I'm saying is we shouldn't immediately convict all cops when a cop kills an unarmed civilian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a question as it pertains to "evidence tampering". That question is: when does it become tampering with a crime scene vs being part of the initial incident?

After a crime has been committed.

I'm not fishing, but this doesn't make sense to me. Don't they determine if it were a "crime" or not in the trial?

In this case, is the moving of the object (whatever it was) tampering or just part of the event?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a question as it pertains to "evidence tampering". That question is: when does it become tampering with a crime scene vs being part of the initial incident?

After a crime has been committed.

I'm not fishing, but this doesn't make sense to me. Don't they determine if it were a "crime" or not in the trial?

In this case, is the moving of the object (whatever it was) tampering or just part of the event?

Good question actually.

I'm guessing they can probably bring a separate charge for that as well? Obstruction of justice? I wonder if it can be used by the prosecutor to go for murder 1?

Edited by Bucky86

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah. Hilarious.

Agreed...not sure what's so funny :oldunsure:

The guy is a complete tool. I could not get past his headline. Much of the article turned out not to be his usual over-the-top stupidness, but the implication was ignorant. As I said early on in this thread, nothing that happened here has any bearing what happened in the Martin case or others.

Edited by jon_mx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A cop, as in the one who committed the act - no. What I'm saying is we shouldn't immediately convict all cops when a cop kills an unarmed civilian.

You don't need to be so defensive. No one is doing this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A cop, as in the one who committed the act - no. What I'm saying is we shouldn't immediately convict all cops when a cop kills an unarmed civilian.

You don't need to be so defensive. No one is doing this.

I would not go that far. There is a large segment of the population who does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A cop, as in the one who committed the act - no. What I'm saying is we shouldn't immediately convict all cops when a cop kills an unarmed civilian.

You don't need to be so defensive. No one is doing this.

I would not go that far. There is a large segment of the population who does.

#NotAllCops :lmao:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah. Hilarious.

Agreed...not sure what's so funny :oldunsure:

The guy is a complete tool. I could not get past his headline. Much of the article turned out not to be his usual over-the-top stupidness, but the implication was ignorant. As I said early on in this thread, nothing that happened here has any bearing what happened in the Martin case or others.

How do you know what "much of the article" said if you couldn't get passed the headline :oldunsure:

The overall implication is that we shouldn't just believe the police officer right off the bat. I don't know why that's "ignorant". Seems pretty spot on actually.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.