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Who's better, Manning or Brady (post cheating spree)? (1 Viewer)

Who's the better quarterback?

  • Peyton Manning

    Votes: 109 54.5%
  • Tom Brady

    Votes: 91 45.5%

  • Total voters
    200

BassNBrew

Footballguy
We've done this before, but last time was in the middle of Brady's cheating spree prior to it being uncovered. Does the news this month change anything?

 
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Anyone who thinks Manning is better is delusional. Manning's playoff record, for a sure fire HOF'er, is poor.

Brady's got 4 rings.

When they've played with commensurate offensive talent, both put up prodigious statistics.

It's really not even that close.

Full disclosure: I do not like either of them and I despise the Patriots.

 
The criteria for judging this is entirely subjective.

If we go by straight passing numbers it's Manning. If we go by wins it's Brady (unless the NFL decides to start nullifying wins, which they won't).

I lean towards the former because so much more that the QB doesn't control goes into the latter (the Pats didn't win their first Super Bowl because of Brady they did it in spite of him).

I don't like the wins argument (particularly the SB wins argument) because that suggests that guys like Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler are as good as Manning and that doesn't pass the sniff test.

I am also fairly confident that Manning would have as many Super Bowl victories as Brady (if not more) if he had been on the Patriots since 2001. I cannot say I am as confident that Brady would have made as many Super Bowls if he had been on the Colts/Broncos, let alone won any.

 
Anyone who thinks Manning is better is delusional. Manning's playoff record, for a sure fire HOF'er, is poor.

Brady's got 4 rings.

When they've played with commensurate offensive talent, both put up prodigious statistics.

It's really not even that close.

Full disclosure: I do not like either of them and I despise the Patriots.
QBs get too much credit for wins and shoulder too much blame for losses.

 
Anyone who thinks Manning is better is delusional. Manning's playoff record, for a sure fire HOF'er, is poor.

Brady's got 4 rings.

When they've played with commensurate offensive talent, both put up prodigious statistics.

It's really not even that close.

Full disclosure: I do not like either of them and I despise the Patriots.
QBs get too much credit for wins and shoulder too much blame for losses.
Plus, Brady's "wins" have been rendered irrelevant to such discussions.

Brady has more jewelry, but so does Mr. T., and his is equally indicative of gridiron legitimacy.

 
to quote whoever said it..

If we take into account the number of SB's Brady has cheated in, Manning has more rings.

 
Slow your roll guys. There are two SBs that are now tainted (spying on the rams and deflating balls), not all four.

 
Slow your roll guys. There are two SBs that are now tainted (spying on the rams and deflating balls), not all four
Really? Link to proof he didn't deflate his balls all the way back to the first SB?
The burden is on someone else to link to the proof that he did.

We don't know that there was cheating in those games so, unfortunately, it falls under the "well everyone cheats a little" umbrella. I agree with the premise that every team will bend the rules as much as possible to gain an edge but I don't judge them all is if they did until they get caught.

The Pats spied and they deflated balls their legacy, and Brady's specifically, is tarnished and there is no denying that. However that is all we know, everything else is speculation and that is not a sufficient standard of proof.

 
Chaka said:
The Pats spied and they deflated balls their legacy, and Brady's specifically, is tarnished and there is no denying that. However that is all we know, everything else is speculation and that is not a sufficient standard of proof.
By getting caught lying and cheating, Brady proved to me that he is a liar and a cheater.

 
Chaka said:
The Pats spied and they deflated balls their legacy, and Brady's specifically, is tarnished and there is no denying that. However that is all we know, everything else is speculation and that is not a sufficient standard of proof.
By getting caught lying and cheating, Brady proved to me that he is a liar and a cheater.
That's nice now prove that he cheated for his entire career.

Cheating or not he's still one of the best ever to play the game. Manning is better, no doubt, but Brady is still one of the best ever.

 
I know that's how you'd like for this to work, but we already KNOW he is a liar and a cheater.

Now prove to me that he did not cheat his whole career.

 
I know that's how you'd like for this to work, but we already KNOW he is a liar and a cheater.

Now prove to me that he did not cheat his whole career.
:yawn: You clearly have no idea how I want this to work. If you read any of the last 2-3 pages of this thread you wouldn't question my position about Brady and the Pats (here is a quick synopsis: I'm not a fan of either). I have already acknowledged that two of their Super Bowls are clearly tainted and that both Brady and the organization have diminished their legacies.

However I also appear to be far more objective than people like you who simply want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I presume you feel the same way about Jerry Rice? Kick him out of the Hall of Fame and throw out all of his records, right?

 
Slow your roll guys. There are two SBs that are now tainted (spying on the rams and deflating balls), not all four.
Proof the Pats spied on the Rams, please. I can wait.
Actually that's a good point they were officially punished for taping the Jets and only accused of taping the Rams walk through. I forgot that the league office conveniently destroyed all the tapes after their investigation..

I still believe they taped the Rams, as I also believe Brady was tampering with his balls (tee-hee-hee) long before being caught but it's true that they were never punished for taping the Rams.

Yeah the Pats are cheating ######bags, and have been for the entire Belichick era, but they have still been an incredible team and I bet most fans, if they were being honest with themselves would love it if their teams accomplished as much even with the stains of scandal.

 
Slow your roll guys. There are two SBs that are now tainted (spying on the rams and deflating balls), not all four.
Proof the Pats spied on the Rams, please. I can wait.
Actually that's a good point they were officially punished for taping the Jets and only accused of taping the Rams walk through. I forgot that the league office conveniently destroyed all the tapes after their investigation..

I still believe they taped the Rams, as I also believe Brady was tampering with his balls (tee-hee-hee) long before being caught but it's true that they were never punished for taping the Rams.

Yeah the Pats are cheating ######bags, and have been for the entire Belichick era, but they have still been an incredible team and I bet most fans, if they were being honest with themselves would love it if their teams accomplished as much even with the stains of scandal.
I won't argue the Pats are dirty.

But no tape of the Rams walkthrough has been known to exist. That one has been exhaustively researched and vetted over the years and such a tape has never surfaced. The Pats video guy's library, the guy that reported it, the newspaper he worked for, the league, the Pats tape library, etc. all of those resources came up empty for producing a tape. None of the folks involved has even claimed to have seen one.

If you believe such a tape exists, so be it.

 
to quote whoever said it..

If we take into account the number of SB's Brady has cheated in, Manning has more rings.
I don't think McNally travelled to the Super Bowls. Those are all legit.
You're one of the few who think so. Even if the Pats didn't doctor the balls in the Super Bowls themselves (which I don't necessarily agree with), they likely did on the majority of games that got them there. I question how many Super Bowls they would have been to if they didn't doctor the balls. You can't win a Championship if you don't make it to one.

 
Chaka said:
Slow your roll guys. There are two SBs that are now tainted (spying on the rams and deflating balls), not all four
Really? Link to proof he didn't deflate his balls all the way back to the first SB?
The burden is on someone else to link to the proof that he did.

We don't know that there was cheating in those games so, unfortunately, it falls under the "well everyone cheats a little" umbrella. I agree with the premise that every team will bend the rules as much as possible to gain an edge but I don't judge them all is if they did until they get caught.

The Pats spied and they deflated balls their legacy, and Brady's specifically, is tarnished and there is no denying that. However that is all we know, everything else is speculation and that is not a sufficient standard of proof.
:confused:

For what?

Nobody's suggesting there's any chance the NFL will officially go back and strip the Pats of their pseudo-titles. Doing so would be admission that their competition those seasons was a sham, and that would be terrible for business.

We're saying that the Pats in general, and Brady and Belichick in particular, have now developed an undeniable record of serially disregarding the rules, both in the gamesmanship-style way most pro teams do, and in the outright-disregard-for-the-authority-and-well-being-of-the-league way that has led to multiple penalties imposed by the league. (I.e., after the Pats ignored the NFL and their demands with extended middle fingers.) These violations have occurred at opposite ends of both guys' Pats' careers, and given both the span of time and the seriousness of the offenses, any fan of the game would have to be a stone idiot NOT to hold their accomplishments in tainted disregard. The "standard of proof" for this is having your ####ing eyes open, understanding what's going on, and not being an imbecile, in combination.

The reason there are higher standards of proof for things like criminal prosecution is that the penalties imposed tend to deprive people of otherwise constitutionally-guaranteed freedoms. For determining whether something "taints" a player's or a team's legacy, the standards differ considerably, as does the size of the jury. If the consensus among the fans becomes that there's ample evidence that the Pats' titles ain't worth #### any more because they're lying, cheating scumbags, then it becomes damning and true. And it's pretty clear in this case, once you remove the voices of the whining homers begging for relevance, that the consensus has spoken loud and clear.

It's constantly amazing how many people want to be internet lawyers, and how many lawyers are too dense to grasp the pretty obvious differences between real life and their courtroom games.

The stain, in this case, is real. And it's permanent.

If you Pats apologist types don't like the feel of it, next time root for a team that doesn't disregard the rules to such an extent that the league has no choice but to step in and levy sanctions. There are plenty of them. :shrug:

 
From now until the dawn of time, Patriots fans will say they didn't cheat when they are holding a hand with 5 aces. However, other teams will forever point their fingers at the Pats calling them cheaters when they are holding 5 jacks.

There are reasons why there are sayings like "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying." There is no doubt the Patriots have broken the rules on many occasions. But people need to realize the Patriots didn't invent bending or breaking the rules. They may do it more often or may be more brazen about it, but it's not like the 31 other teams are pure and innocent.

That doesn't make the Patriots actions right, all it means is they got caught and got caught more frequently. Cheating is still cheating. The car going 90 mph really can't complain about the other drivers going 75 mph. At this point we know Brady and the Patriots "more than likely" intentionally broke the rules. Label them what you want.

Whether people like it or not or want to admit it, lots and lots of players and teams have done things that are against the spirit of the rules. People can chose who they call cheaters on their own terms. Some people will say Jerry Rice or the 70's Steelers cheated . . . others will not. In baseball, some will brand George Brett, Gaylord Perry, and Andy Pettitte cheaters . . . others will not.

Each person will draw a different line in the sand, and most people will not redraw their line based on where others draw theirs.

 
Chaka said:
Slow your roll guys. There are two SBs that are now tainted (spying on the rams and deflating balls), not all four
Really? Link to proof he didn't deflate his balls all the way back to the first SB?
The burden is on someone else to link to the proof that he did.

We don't know that there was cheating in those games so, unfortunately, it falls under the "well everyone cheats a little" umbrella. I agree with the premise that every team will bend the rules as much as possible to gain an edge but I don't judge them all is if they did until they get caught.

The Pats spied and they deflated balls their legacy, and Brady's specifically, is tarnished and there is no denying that. However that is all we know, everything else is speculation and that is not a sufficient standard of proof.
When someone gets caught cheating, the burden of proof is now on you to prove that you weren't doing it all along. You don't discount the HRs that Alex Rodriguez and Mark McGuire hit during the week that they were caught juicing and just assume that all the rest were legit, you assume that they're all tainted unless someone can prove otherwise. Same thing here. All of those Patriots Super Bowls are tainted. It's even worse here, in fact, since the Pats were caught TWICE.

 
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Manning is the better QB. That he also has to be the OC, generally gets a porous D and mediocre coaches only makes it more true. Brady gets a good D coach that cheats at every step.

 
Manning misses a season and the Colts end up with the 1st pick in the draft. Brady misses a season and the Pats go 11-5. It's Manning by a mile.

 
Brady and not close for me. Here is why, he has been one of the best quarterbacks in the game year in and year out and has done it every way you can. Game manager, air it out, dink and dunk. Manning is still great, but give me the guy that can adapt his game to the team around him.

 
Stitch said:
Manning misses a season and the Colts end up with the 1st pick in the draft. Brady misses a season and the Pats go 11-5. It's Belichick over Polian by a mile.
ftfy

 
Anyone who thinks Manning is better is delusional. Manning's playoff record, for a sure fire HOF'er, is poor.

Brady's got 4 rings.

When they've played with commensurate offensive talent, both put up prodigious statistics.

It's really not even that close.

Full disclosure: I do not like either of them and I despise the Patriots.
Did you actually think this would be an unbiased vote though? Brady is the most polarizing player in the league. They should rename the vote to "do you hate Brady or not" and it would get the same results. Glad there's some unbiased fans like yourself. I also have no love for either player or team but the unnecessary hate on Tom has made me root for him. He's far and away been better then Peyton, especially as of late. Throwing the "post cheating spree" is quite the loaded question.

 
Brady and not close for me. Here is why, he has been one of the best quarterbacks in the game year in and year out and has done it every way you can. Game manager, air it out, dink and dunk. Manning is still great, but give me the guy that can adapt his game to the team around him.
Also Manning has had one of the best receiving corps in the NFL almost every year he's played. Brady's has been average at best. Manning also has had better RB's, and better Defense as of late.

 
Slow your roll guys. There are two SBs that are now tainted (spying on the rams and deflating balls), not all four
Really? Link to proof he didn't deflate his balls all the way back to the first SB?
The burden is on someone else to link to the proof that he did.

We don't know that there was cheating in those games so, unfortunately, it falls under the "well everyone cheats a little" umbrella. I agree with the premise that every team will bend the rules as much as possible to gain an edge but I don't judge them all is if they did until they get caught.

The Pats spied and they deflated balls their legacy, and Brady's specifically, is tarnished and there is no denying that. However that is all we know, everything else is speculation and that is not a sufficient standard of proof.
When someone gets caught cheating, the burden of proof is now on you to prove that you weren't doing it all along. You don't discount the HRs that Alex Rodriguez and Mark McGuire hit during the week that they were caught juicing and just assume that all the rest were legit, you assume that they're all tainted unless someone can prove otherwise. Same thing here. All of those Patriots Super Bowls are tainted. It's even worse here, in fact, since the Pats were caught TWICE.
:doh:

 
Peyton. Place him on the Pats roster and he's 6-0 in the Super Bowls.
Place Peyton on the Pats roster this year and Brady on the Broncos roster this year and Denver wins by 50 today.
Yes, I am sure Manning would have done better behind the Pats line. :loco:
Hahaha yep. PM would have broken every bone in his body if he was on the Pats roster.
As bad as the Pats O-line was today, Denver's wasn't much better. Peyton was also getting smoked back there. I thought both QBs played poorly but Manning made a couple more throws than Brady. Currently, Brady is much better than Manning at this stage of their careers. I really hope Manning retires after this season. He simply has nothing left.

 
Brady took an unfathomable 20 hits today, the most by any quarterback in the 2015-16 season.

Also just finished one of his best seasons ever and should be 2nd in MVP Voting. But ya, Manning is better today hahha

EDT: 24 hits apparently. Wow.

 
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Brady and not close for me. Here is why, he has been one of the best quarterbacks in the game year in and year out and has done it every way you can. Game manager, air it out, dink and dunk. Manning is still great, but give me the guy that can adapt his game to the team around him.
Also Manning has had one of the best receiving corps in the NFL almost every year he's played. Brady's has been average at best. Manning also has had better RB's, and better Defense as of late.
Based on this, Cam Newton must be a HOF lock.

 
Brady and not close for me. Here is why, he has been one of the best quarterbacks in the game year in and year out and has done it every way you can. Game manager, air it out, dink and dunk. Manning is still great, but give me the guy that can adapt his game to the team around him.
Also Manning has had one of the best receiving corps in the NFL almost every year he's played. Brady's has been average at best. Manning also has had better RB's, and better Defense as of late.
Based on this, Cam Newton must be a HOF lock.
If Cam puts up 10 seasons like this one then yes, you're right he is a HOF lock.

 

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