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Dynasty showdown: Kevin White or DeVante Parker (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sebowski
- Start date
Papa John's
Footballguy
White ... its not close imho.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
I'll take Parker over all 2015 rookie WRs
jurb26
Footballguy
Yeah, Parker over Cooper is just crazy. Parker definitely has more natural skill than White, but I voted White because of his documented work ethic and how far he has come in such a short time. I think he is hungry and very willing to work hard and learn. Add that into his huge frame and good speed and he has the makings of a very strong career ahead of him.
One thing that bothered me at the combine and I can't ignore is Parker's lack of hustle when running the gauntlet. Coaches had to tell him to keep hustling. That didn't sit well with me and I see it as a sign of a possible poor work ethic/laziness. Part of the reason I chose White.
Papa John's
Footballguy
This.
Plus, time after time on tape I saw Parker being caught from behind. He may be a very good receiver, but when a WR continuously gets caught from behind in college by DB's I just don't see him ever being elite or even great. Couple that with his constant self-adulation and I'll pass. It seems so over the top all the time that it is almost like he's constantly overcompensating.
White, on the other hand, is a beast, possesses breakaway speed and has a crazy work ethic. He has the way higher ceiling and floor imho. Easy choice imho.
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georg013
Footballguy
Good stuffThis.
Plus, time after time on tape I saw Parker being caught from behind. He may be a very good receiver, but when a WR continuously gets caught from behind in college by DB's I just don't see him ever being elite or even great. Couple that with his constant self-adulation and I'll pass. It seems so over the top all the time that it is almost like he's constantly overcompensating.
White, on the other hand, is a beast, possesses breakaway speed and has a crazy work ethic. He has the way higher ceiling and floor imho. Easy choice imho.
Xue
Footballguy
Parker had more %-age of his production on 20+ yard throws than White did. Being faster after the catch doesn't make you a better big play threat. For all that speed, White rarely was wide open.This.
Plus, time after time on tape I saw Parker being caught from behind. He may be a very good receiver, but when a WR continuously gets caught from behind in college by DB's I just don't see him ever being elite or even great. Couple that with his constant self-adulation and I'll pass. It seems so over the top all the time that it is almost like he's constantly overcompensating.
White, on the other hand, is a beast, possesses breakaway speed and has a crazy work ethic. He has the way higher ceiling and floor imho. Easy choice imho.
White has great work ethic yet is raw as they come. Let that sink in guys. Does that make any sense at all? What exactly does he "work" on?
Parket with constant self-adulation? LOL. I think you have him confused with White. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000482668/article/kevin-white-i-bring-a-lot-more-to-the-table-than-amari-cooper
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How does it not make sense? He is working on being not as raw. Learning technique, routes etc. That's perfectly fine with me considering the guy only really started taking football seriously a few years ago. Looks like he has gotten better every year. He may not be as advanced as cooper or parker, but he held his own pretty well in college. And that was against some pretty good teams facing the top corner in a lot of cases.Parker had more %-age of his production on 20+ yard throws than White did. Being faster after the catch doesn't make you a better big play threat. For all that speed, White rarely was wide open.This.
Plus, time after time on tape I saw Parker being caught from behind. He may be a very good receiver, but when a WR continuously gets caught from behind in college by DB's I just don't see him ever being elite or even great. Couple that with his constant self-adulation and I'll pass. It seems so over the top all the time that it is almost like he's constantly overcompensating.
White, on the other hand, is a beast, possesses breakaway speed and has a crazy work ethic. He has the way higher ceiling and floor imho. Easy choice imho.
White has great work ethic yet is raw as they come. Let that sink in guys. Does that make any sense at all? What exactly does he "work" on?
Parket with constant self-adulation? LOL. I think you have him confused with White. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000482668/article/kevin-white-i-bring-a-lot-more-to-the-table-than-amari-cooper
Since the OP's question is "who you got for the long haul?", I'll take the guy with the better work ethic(IMO) and less screws in his foot. It's the same mentality I use at my job. I would rather hire the less knowledgeable, but more teachable and harder working guy, than the more experienced guy who is complacent with where he stands. Not saying Parker is complacent because I have no clue, but I have seen enough red flags from him to make White look more appealing to me.
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jurb26
Footballguy
The fact that people seem to think they have both these guys work ethic figured out is amazing to me. More amazing is that Parker is somehow crowned the self-adulation king of the 2. Really, have you not watched a single interview of Whate these past 4 months? Personally, that stuff doesn't bother me anyway. Many a great WR have thought they were the second coming. Still, you might want to check your barometer if you think Parker wins that area.
Self-adulation is a non factor to me as well. As far as work ethic, I can only go on what I read because I don't know them personally. I have read many good things about White's work, haven't seen much about Parker. I did see what seemed like a half hearted effort at the combine from parker. Maybe he is so smooth it just looked slow to me, but it came off as a red flag to me. Add that to the screw in his foot and I'll take White over him in dynasty. Just like the Bears took White over him in real life. As well as most scouts. Those guys are much more qualified decision makers than I am so I'll trust their judgment.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Both will be nice NFL weapons. Both have all the tools to excel. White probably has stronger tools and less chance to reach his potential. Parker's potential is still huge though. White by a smidge.
Xue
Footballguy
White isn't as advanced as Parker, yet he is a hard worker and Parker isn't? So Parker didn't work hard to get more advanced than White? It just happened by accident?jmo87usc said:How does it not make sense? He is working on being not as raw. Learning technique, routes etc. That's perfectly fine with me considering the guy only really started taking football seriously a few years ago. Looks like he has gotten better every year. He may not be as advanced as cooper or parker, but he held his own pretty well in college. And that was against some pretty good teams facing the top corner in a lot of cases.Parker had more %-age of his production on 20+ yard throws than White did. Being faster after the catch doesn't make you a better big play threat. For all that speed, White rarely was wide open.This.
Plus, time after time on tape I saw Parker being caught from behind. He may be a very good receiver, but when a WR continuously gets caught from behind in college by DB's I just don't see him ever being elite or even great. Couple that with his constant self-adulation and I'll pass. It seems so over the top all the time that it is almost like he's constantly overcompensating.
White, on the other hand, is a beast, possesses breakaway speed and has a crazy work ethic. He has the way higher ceiling and floor imho. Easy choice imho.
White has great work ethic yet is raw as they come. Let that sink in guys. Does that make any sense at all? What exactly does he "work" on?
Parket with constant self-adulation? LOL. I think you have him confused with White. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000482668/article/kevin-white-i-bring-a-lot-more-to-the-table-than-amari-cooper
Since the OP's question is "who you got for the long haul?", I'll take the guy with the better work ethic(IMO) and less screws in his foot. It's the same mentality I use at my job. I would rather hire the less knowledgeable, but more teachable and harder working guy, than the more experienced guy who is complacent with where he stands. Not saying Parker is complacent because I have no clue, but I have seen enough red flags from him to make White look more appealing to me.
How can you tell if a WR actually works on their craft? By watching the tape. I've never heard of a raw WR described as "having great work ethic". If he did, he'd have better routes and technique overall.
Xue
Footballguy
Somehow Parker has poor work ethic for a guy who payed at less than 100% and was in pain for the first few games when he came back from injury. He also tore up the previous year National Champion for 200+ yards in his second game back. But we'll stick to biased narratives.jmo87usc said:
Perhaps he was "lazy" at the Combine because he didn't want to re-injure his foot? Oh guess we never thought of that because...narratives.
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Xue
Footballguy
Since you've never "seen" about Parker being a "hard worker" or having "great work ethic", here are 3 firsthand accounts:
http://isportsweb.com/2015/05/21/miami-dolphins-rookie-devante-parker-shows-promise/
http://isportsweb.com/2015/05/21/miami-dolphins-rookie-devante-parker-shows-promise/
http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/69243/is-devante-parker-a-1000-yard-receiver
georg013
Footballguy
There were lots of prominent sports minds who had White as their top receiver. I know it is not an exact science and ultimately nothing said in the Sharks Pool is likely to sway an opinion one way or the other. Either you like the guy or you don't. The guy you like you are going to defend and the guy you dont like you are going to pick apart. Personally, the fact that such a raw prospect was taken 7th overall despite the Tavon Austin and Cordarelle Patterson fiascos is telling. Maybe the guy isn't as bad as some believe. Only time will tell. I would be happy to own both but if I had to pick between the two give me White. I like what I saw on tape and apparently so did the NFL Chicago Bears. Surprised they didnt take Parker. Stupid Bears.
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Xue
Footballguy
Difference between picking apart and straight up fallacious slander and laziness in researching "work ethic". Apparently, the person who questions DeVante Parker's work ethic should look at his own. Ironic.
JackReacher
Footballguy
We are all projecting here. I respect Xue's view and actually drafted one he hates (White) and one he loves (Funchess). I picked 4th and was faced with the White/Parker dilemma. Ended up choosing White because reports were that he looked like a beast in the early OTAs (pre-injury), he was selected higher than Parker, and Parker's foot history.
Totally get White's thin resume and I liked what I saw of Parker against FSU, but had to choose. Won't have any regrets no matter how it turns out.
Totally get White's thin resume and I liked what I saw of Parker against FSU, but had to choose. Won't have any regrets no matter how it turns out.
Papa John's
Footballguy
As I read all of the posts by Xue and measure his "outrage" in this thread, I can't help but thinking that he is actually the real DeVante Parker.
"I am [DeVante Parker]"
- Signed Xue
The only problem is, in my head, all I keep hearing is "I am groot"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph_l7Pp_1mk
"I am [DeVante Parker]"
- Signed Xue
The only problem is, in my head, all I keep hearing is "I am groot"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph_l7Pp_1mk
Xue
Footballguy
I'm outraged that someone would post blatant lies in order to make their case. Guess that makes me like every other human being. I can't help but think some people are that desperate. And now, instead of touching on the abilities of Parker, you're going to take a shot at me in order to deflect from the real issue.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I think it's funny to think you can ascertain any information about a mans work ethic by watching one drill at one event.
Papa John's
Footballguy
First, "lies". Really man. Perhaps people have what you perceive to be a misperception of reality, but "lies"? C'mon man. That's just fake outrage.
Second, my White opinion is based on scouting and my clear opinion that he has "breakaway abilities" that Parker does not have (since he continuously gets caught from behind on tape). That has nothing to do with jumping up for the ball and making 20+ yd plays. With that said, I didn't call you our for that mischaracterization early on in this thread (above), because its no big thing. Any critical reader that has looked at the tape can decide for themselves, but the point here is that if I wanted to take a shot at you I would have on that point ...
Finally, the "groot" comments are all in fun. Honestly, I couldn't stop laughing at it this morning, so I thought I'd share. No need to get all jazzed up this morning. Have some coffee, put your feet up, relax ... but, don't get your undies all in a bunch this early in the morning man. Chillax.
That's the kind of thing you find funny? I'm guessing your favorite comedian is Carrot Top or some other not funny person?
But seriously, you say one drill at one event like it's no big deal. This is the most significant event of his young life that will shape the beginning of his career. You bust your butt every second at this event to leave a great impression on every coach and scout watching.
Now, Did I say Parker has a poor work ethic? No. I said I have read multiple sources stating Kevin White's great work ethic and hadn't seen much on Parker. So the only thing I have to go on for Parker is that I personally didn't like seeing him run what I thought was a half hearted on a combine drill. That's really all I have to base my decision on so I chose White over Parker for dynasty. I could very well end up being wrong, but this thread is asking what our opinion is from a dynasty standpoint. Well that's my opinion. Does that make me a liar or a slanderer? Not in my eyes.
It frustrates me when a guy like xue gets defensive because people don't agree with him and he doesn't like how they formed their opinion. I actually respect his opinion and he certainly is more knowledgeable about football than I am. That doesn't mean I'm just going to follow whatever he says as gospel every time. To me it's ok to disagree for whatever reason you want if you really believe it.
Uncle Grandpa
Footballguy
Xue
Footballguy
I don't expect people to agree with me. But when you have an opposing view, please have strong evidence. It's frustrating to have a healthy debate when others seem to pulling stuff out of thin air.
I understand where you are coming from. I've read your posts and appreciate the detail in them. I'm sure it frustrates you to see people forming opinions from feelings rather than facts, just as there are some people who would rather not read a ton of facts and just want the quick synopsis. Everyone operates differently. I just don't think anyone is trying to maliciously spread lies or slander in here, just sharing their opinion.
I personally had Parker ahead of White in my initial rankings until I watched his combine effort and heard the screw replacement news. Those may not be legitimate concerns to some, but they are to me. Enough so that I drafted White over Parker. I think we can still have a healthy debate over whether or not those concerns are legit or not. I was also hoping you would have chimed in with a rebuttal against Papa John's allegation that Parker gets caught from behind a lot. I figured you would have evidence to argue that and I was hoping to see it because I'm not sure he's correct. There is plenty of healthy debate to be had here.
Xue
Footballguy
Parker was very good at creating after the catch with his vision and cutting ability. I don't see him getting caught often as big negative. I did acknowledge that White is faster than Parker after the catch. Parker's acceleration immediate after the catch is very good, but his top end seems to be a bit lower compared to White.
Despite that, Parker still had a higher overall YPR than White and had twice as much %-age of his production on 20+ yard passes. If both guys get the same number of receptions and one guy is able to produce a higher YPR regardless of how it's done, I'll take that guy. I think that guy is Parker.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
It was one event. He had a pro day. He already has an impressive body of work and a ton of tape. It's one event during one combine, that you were watching a snippet of on TV. I agree though, I've never read that Parker has poor work ethic, never once. White might have great work ethic, and probably does because we've heard about it. But that doesn't mean Parker doesn't work just as hard, or even harder.
All that said, I have White over Parker. Biggest reason being that he was selected ahead of Parker by the Bears. They have a developed scouting staff. Guys like Xue and EBF I don't pay a lot of attention to. They are hobbyists and they are totally into it, but to me it's a lot of wasted effort. Even Waldman and Bloom whiff consistently. Heck even NFL teams whiff consistently. I go pretty much by draft position in my rookies drafts. White was selected ahead of Parker by a pretty good margin. Until I find a prognosticator who can consistently beat out my method of "following the money," I'm just going to pretty much go on how they were picked by the NFL. It's not perfect but as of right now I believe it's more accurate than drinking beer and watching youtube clips.
Xue
Footballguy
You just contradicted yourself and sounded very ignorant doing so. LOL
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Uncle Grandpa
Footballguy
Can you please post analysis that shows how this statistic equates to NFL production?Xue said:
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I know. Chicago's scouting staff is a joke.Xue said:
You are clearly over estimating the importance of the combine and underrating the comic abilities of Carrot Top. You don't make as much money as he has telling jokes if you're not funny.
Xue
Footballguy
The joke is that you say you don't pay attention to guys like me and EBF yet speak as if you actually do at such a level that you know what we do with our wasted time.
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Uncle Grandpa
Footballguy
Xue
Footballguy
Uncle Grandpa
Footballguy
A higher YPR, as you've suggested.Define "NFL production".
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I do read you for entertainment purposes. It's probably not a waste of time for you, But for me to sit there and analyze all these guys would be a waste of time for me. The hobby doesn't mean that much to me. I'd rather go camping or something with the kids. I don't have a ton of time for stuff like this that doesn't add concrete value to my life. I hop and in check stuff out because I want to win in my leagues, but I'm ok with it if I am not the best player in my league.
T with T
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I don't think you can go wrong with either.
Bronx Bomber
Footballguy
If you don't think statistical analysis plays a major part in scouting current and future production than you aren't paying attention to sports and fantasy sports the last 5 years. I hope I'm misinterpreting your question and that you're just trying to goad Xue to wast his time on something that we all know is valid.Uncle Grandpa said:A higher YPR, as you've suggested.Xue said:Define "NFL production".Uncle Grandpa said:
Uncle Grandpa
Footballguy
Why do you know it's valid? What analysis went into determining that information is statistically significant? That is where my question is derived. I can spout off a bunch of descriptive statistics all day long, but if they're useless in predicting out-of-sample data, then quoting them just becomes misleading. I'm not saying the stat that Xue mentioned isn't valid for inferential purposes, but I'm not just going to assume it is just because he mentions it.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Tannehill is plenty accurate deep.Does Parker's game work well with Tannehill's deep and abiding love for the 6-8 yard pass?
JackReacher
Footballguy
Huh? Miami homer here. There are some numbers that may give him the benefit of doubt, but he's poor in this area.Tannehill is plenty accurate deep.Does Parker's game work well with Tannehill's deep and abiding love for the 6-8 yard pass?
TheBottomLine
Footballguy
White all day.
