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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Leonard Fournette, Bucs

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29 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Probably has a small play packet already.  I would guess a few runs. 

If he plays I think it shows the Jags are desperate at RB.  

Idk.  I think the Jags won't even activate him for this weekend.  He's going to spend most of tomorrow doing paperwork and getting medically cleared, won't he??

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55 minutes ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

Guys, let's not panic here.

Jags are tied for the division lead in a really weak division.  They expect to win it and get to the playoffs.  They're a team that relies on the ground game as the engine of their offense as Bortles is inconsistent at best and dog #### at worst, but they have a good defense.  They need to control the clock and run the ball effectively.

I'm betting Fournette won't be 100% until after their bye and will need to be used sparingly if at all until then.  They're sitting with a banged-up TJ Yeldon and the walking corpse of Jamaal Charles at RB right now.  A 5th round pick isn't a high price to pay to get a solid, proven back that can churn out yards on the ground and keep them in their offense for a few weeks until Fournette returns.

They spent the #4 overall pick on Fournette.  They spent a 5th rounder on Hyde.  Hyde isn't taking over the #1 role and Fournette did some running and limited work this week.  He's not going to IR.  Hyde will command a solid share of the carries until LF is 100% and then will be relegated to an every 3rd or 4th series back.

Great post. Although in terms of the bolded, we don't know that for certainty. I think your take, and take from the JAX beat writer from @Buck Bradcanon below presents the Occam's Razor explanation.

53 minutes ago, Buck Bradcanon said:

Jags reporter..

No, I don't think this means he's had a setback. I think he'll play at Indianapolis after the bye. This trade is the #Jaguars saying, "We will not be burned by a Fournette injury again."

 

https://twitter.com/hayscarlyon/status/1053383127828172801?s=21

However, this is not to say that a reinjury in practice this week -- or subsequent days and weeks leading into and out of the bye-- couldn't set Fournette back even further than the expected "back after the bye" timeline. At some point if that has happened, there may be benefit to clear roster space to further bolster this core (and other areas of the team) for the very purpose of staying abreast of the other mediocre teams in this winnable division.

Here's wishing that the best case scenario at this point -- the one we were on all along in Fournette returning to studly ways after fully resting through the bye -- is what indeed comes to fruition.

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1 hour ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

Guys, let's not panic here.

Jags are tied for the division lead in a really weak division.  They expect to win it and get to the playoffs.  They're a team that relies on the ground game as the engine of their offense as Bortles is inconsistent at best and dog #### at worst, but they have a good defense.  They need to control the clock and run the ball effectively.

I'm betting Fournette won't be 100% until after their bye and will need to be used sparingly if at all until then.  They're sitting with a banged-up TJ Yeldon and the walking corpse of Jamaal Charles at RB right now.  A 5th round pick isn't a high price to pay to get a solid, proven back that can churn out yards on the ground and keep them in their offense for a few weeks until Fournette returns.

They spent the #4 overall pick on Fournette.  They spent a 5th rounder on Hyde.  Hyde isn't taking over the #1 role and Fournette did some running and limited work this week.  He's not going to IR.  Hyde will command a solid share of the carries until LF is 100% and then will be relegated to an every 3rd or 4th series back.

Stop making sense. This thread is for illogical panic only.

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2 hours ago, ericttspikes said:

Maybe they figured out Jamaal Charles is trash, they already lost Grant, and the injury prone TJ Yeldon is all they really have at RB. Fournette could be really messed up and miss multiple more games, but adding a RB seems like a prudent thing to do for the Jags regardless.

I think this is the best explanation.  This was a team that expected to compete for a Super Bowl behind a tough defense and strong running game.  Two of their three RBs have missed games due to injury, and Yeldon is gutting out a bum ankle.  Brandon Wilds, Dave Williams and Jamaal Charles ain't going to get you there.  And shifting schemes mid-season to emphasize passing is tough when you have no tight ends, lost Marquise Lee (your QB's security blanket) and the o-line is playing terrible.

I don't think this is an indicator of Fournette's long term health, although they've learned all too hard they have to be prepared to play without him at any time.  Also, what if Yeldon goes out with an injury Q1 of the Texans' game?  There's no one credible to carry the ball until after the bye week, and this passing game is not going to bail them out

Desperate times call for desperate measures

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3 hours ago, ericttspikes said:

Maybe they figured out Jamaal Charles is trash, they already lost Grant, and the injury prone TJ Yeldon is all they really have at RB. Fournette could be really messed up and miss multiple more games, but adding a RB seems like a prudent thing to do for the Jags regardless.

Yeldon will also be gone after this season  So why not get a proven RB for cheap now. 

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Hyde is only 27 and under contract for 3 more years.

Fournette's dynasty value just crashed into a mountain.  This seems highly likely to be a committee of some kind when he comes back.

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This is a hit to Fournette. Hyde will be mixed in at some level. Even if it's a small hit it's still a hit. Not good for Fournette even if he doesn't go on IR.

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12 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Hyde is only 27 and under contract for 3 more years.

Fournette's dynasty value just crashed into a mountain.  This seems highly likely to be a committee of some kind when he comes back.

Two more years. Kind of. They can cut him after the season with zero hit. 

If Leonard Fournette is healthy, he’s going to get plenty of touches. His injury history is a valid concern for dynasty owners, to say the least. Carlos Hyde is a minor inconvenience, at most. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

Two more years. Kind of. They can cut him after the season with zero hit. 

If Leonard Fournette is healthy, he’s going to get plenty of touches. His injury history is a valid concern for dynasty owners, to say the least. Carlos Hyde is a minor inconvenience, at most. 

 

Right, should have said the rest of this year and 2 more years.

I don't think they are going to cut Hyde unless he is bad, he isn't making a ton (not much more than they pay Yeldon) and he's not a bad player.

Fournette barely managed 1,000 yards rushing on the ground last year and isn't involved enough in the passing game to justify his value in PPR dynasty.  I think this is "sky is falling" type of news - his value was already teetering and this is that nudge off the edge.

Edited by kittenmittens
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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

Right, should have said the rest of this year and 2 more years.

I don't think they are going to cut Hyde unless he is bad, he isn't making a ton (not much more than they pay Yeldon) and he's not a bad player.

Fournette barely managed 1,000 yards rushing on the ground last year and isn't involved enough in the passing game to justify his value in PPR dynasty.  I think this is "sky is falling" type of news - his value was already teetering and this is that nudge off the edge.

I agree with some of this. Hyde is bad news but Fournette was going to be a bigger part of the passing game this year. They have said the entire offense was built around him this year. 

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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

Right, should have said the rest of this year and 2 more years.

I don't think they are going to cut Hyde unless he is bad, he isn't making a ton (not much more than they pay Yeldon) and he's not a bad player.

Fournette barely managed 1,000 yards rushing on the ground last year and isn't involved enough in the passing game to justify his value in PPR dynasty.  I think this is "sky is falling" type of news - his value was already teetering and this is that nudge off the edge.

I agree with some of this. Hyde is bad news but Fournette was going to be a bigger part of the passing game this year. They have said the entire offense was built around him this year. 

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

I agree with some of this. Hyde is bad news but Fournette was going to be a bigger part of the passing game this year. They have said the entire offense was built around him this year. 

Agree. I heard the rhetoric in the pre-season and noticed in the third pre-season game that he caught a few balls. Then he caught 3 before getting hurt early in the first game of the regular season. He was probably in line for a monster season had he not gotten hurt (which might have been asking for a miracle). 

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4 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Hyde is only 27 and under contract for 3 more years.

Fournette's dynasty value just crashed into a mountain.  This seems highly likely to be a committee of some kind when he comes back.

Why?  Just because my Mercedes is in the shop for a few weeks and I buy a used Altima to get around doesn't mean I'm driving that Altima when I get the Mercedes back.

 

Carlos Hyde is a used Altima of a running back and nothing more.

Edited by (HULK)
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5 hours ago, NYRAGE said:

Agree. I heard the rhetoric in the pre-season and noticed in the third pre-season game that he caught a few balls. Then he caught 3 before getting hurt early in the first game of the regular season. He was probably in line for a monster season had he not gotten hurt (which might have been asking for a miracle). 

Exactly. 

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5 hours ago, (HULK) said:

Why?  Just because my Mercedes is in the shop for a few weeks and I buy a used Altima to get around doesn't mean I'm driving that Altima when I get the Mercedes back.

 

Carlos Hyde is a used Altima of a running back and nothing more.

That's a fair view if that's how you value hyde. I value Hyde a little more than that and don't think he's going anywhere. Puts a damper on Fournette's future..

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5 hours ago, (HULK) said:

Why?  Just because my Mercedes is in the shop for a few weeks and I buy a used Altima to get around doesn't mean I'm driving that Altima when I get the Mercedes back.

 

Carlos Hyde is a used Altima of a running back and nothing more.

But you may hesitate taking that Mercedes on long road trips because of its history letting you down. In fact you may find yourself driving the Altima a little more than usual in hopes to not add too much mileage and wear on the Mercedes. 

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What is this guys redraft value right now? I think I may try to get a RB2 type with some upside. Alex Collins? Kerryon Johnson? I think my team may be dead by week 10 unless I move him for some help now.

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6 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

 

But you may hesitate taking that Mercedes on long road trips because of its history letting you down. In fact you may find yourself driving the Altima a little more than usual in hopes to not add too much mileage and wear on the Mercedes. 

Sure. But I already have my used Dodge Stratus (Yeldon) for that.  My Altima will likely get used instead of my Stratus, but probably not in place of my Mercedes.

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You guys are overreacting. They spent a 5th round pick on a RB averaging less than 4 YPC.

Yeldon is a free agent next year. You connect the dots...

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6 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

You guys are overreacting. They spent a 5th round pick on a RB averaging less than 4 YPC.

Yeldon is a free agent next year. You connect the dots...

Averaging less than 4 YPC you say...

Just like Leonard Fournette for his career? 

YPC is a stupid stat that lacks all context... But you can't really use it to say Fournette is better than Hyde.  Hyde has a better career YPC. 

Edited by kittenmittens

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7 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Averaging less than 4 YPC you say...

Just like Leonard Fournette for his career? 

YPC is a stupid stat that lacks all context... But you can't really use it to say Fournette is better than Hide. 

Leonard Fournette had a 3.9YPC last season. My suggestion is to round up. He also never got a chance to improve on his rookie numbers. We don't know if he's improved yet.

Whereas Carlos Hyde's 3.4 YPC is at a career low, his old team didn't resign him, his new team traded him after 6 games for a 5th rounder; he's a descending talent.

YPC is only a stupid stat when you don't use it the right way. When you use it the right way, it paints a pretty picture!

Edited by Stuart Ullman

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4 hours ago, Man In The Box said:

What is this guys redraft value right now? I think I may try to get a RB2 type with some upside. Alex Collins? Kerryon Johnson? I think my team may be dead by week 10 unless I move him for some help now.

I think Fournette is worth more than Collins. I could see a case for Johnson though. Very curious to see if they come out of the bye week with a bigger focus on using him.

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2 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Leonard Fournette has a 3.9YPC. My suggestion is to round up. Guy never got a chance to improve on his rookie numbers.

Whereas Carlos Hyde's 3.4 YPC is at a career low, his old team didn't resign him, his new team traded him after 6 games for a 5th rounder; he's a descending talent.

YPC is only a stupid stat when you don't use it the right way. When you use it the way I use it, it paints a pretty picture!

Chris Thompson has a higher career YPC than Barry Sanders. Is that the right way to use it? ?

YPC doesn't separate the individual from his teammates blocking for him.  It also doesn't separate the types of runs a player gets, which is why Chris Thompson has a higher YPC than Barry. 

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4 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Chris Thompson has a higher career YPC than Barry Sanders. Is that the right way to use it? ?

YPC doesn't separate the individual from his teammates blocking for him.  It also doesn't separate the types of runs a player gets, which is why Chris Thompson has a higher YPC than Barry. 

Bad argument. Barry Sanders was used in an entirely different way in an entirely different era.

That's a bad comparison, imo. When you have to bring up a guy who played 20+ years ago, it doesn't help conflate your point.

Edited by Stuart Ullman

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12 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Bad argument. Barry Sanders was used in an entirely different way in an entirely different era.

That's a bad comparison, imo. When you have to bring up a guy who played 20+ years ago, it doesn't help conflate your point.

To be clear, my point was that a 3rd down back has a better YPC than the greatest RB of all time, specifically because of how they were used and their supporting casts.  YPC doesn't account for that, it doesn't tell you who the better player is at all. 

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Change the thread title to "Panicsville".  People jumping off cliffs.

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9 hours ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Leonard Fournette had a 3.9YPC last season. My suggestion is to round up. He also never got a chance to improve on his rookie numbers. We don't know if he's improved yet.

Whereas Carlos Hyde's 3.4 YPC is at a career low, his old team didn't resign him, his new team traded him after 6 games for a 5th rounder; he's a descending talent.

YPC is only a stupid stat when you don't use it the right way. When you use it the right way, it paints a pretty picture!

You forgot that the team that traded him away is known for its dysfunction, has already traded away a number 1 talent in Gordon this year, has a rookie QB at the helm and had an inefficient one prior to the rookie (and unless it’s rookie RG3, it is probably not good for the rb), and Cleveland has an average o line at best with an offense that hasn’t figured it out. His YPC is not a fair stat to judge him on. The move overall just gives me pause about Fournette. Hyde will be serviceable and clearly they want that because they are afraid Fournette won’t be able to handle a true work horse load like they hoped

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Shefter reporting that Fournette is planning on returning after the bye week- which would put him back week 10. Uggh. A complete waste of a pick in redraft.

Edited by jvdesigns2002

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On 10/21/2018 at 11:06 AM, jvdesigns2002 said:

Shefter reporting that Fournette is planning on returning after the bye week- which would put him back week 10. Uggh. A complete waste of a pick in redraft.

Bumping for the latest. Trying to get a gauge if he is a low buy or sell, sell, sell. I see he went to D from being OUT this week. Then the bye week, then the real deal. What happens in week 10 and ROS?

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8 minutes ago, Team Smokin' said:

Bumping for the latest. Trying to get a gauge if he is a low buy or sell, sell, sell. I see he went to D from being OUT this week. Then the bye week, then the real deal. What happens in week 10 and ROS?

Im holding. I got him on WW a few weeks back and been stashing in my IR spot. Have to take him out of IR when they move him to D not OUT but its a juggling game. I have Conner, Hunt, Bell, Fournette, Clement, just traded away Lindsay. 

 

Hope is week 10 he is 90%+ and can stay on field through week 16. They will use him heavily if he can handle the workload. He will be a top 15 back RoS from week 10

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I had a dream last night that I was getting married (IRL Ive been married for 16 years so not sure..) and I was late coming out of the dressing room or whatever because at the last second I realized that Fournette was actually playing and I should have started him instead of plugging in Trenton Cannon.

No shtick.  :bag::bag::bag:

 

 

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59 minutes ago, NeverEnough said:

In a dynasty league where I own him, I was told by a fellow owner that he has no value. LOL WHAT?!

Translation:  I'm not comfortable paying even half of what you think he's worth, therefore he essentially has zero value because I'll never own him at his asking price.

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2 hours ago, Team Smokin' said:

Bumping for the latest. Trying to get a gauge if he is a low buy or sell, sell, sell. I see he went to D from being OUT this week. Then the bye week, then the real deal. What happens in week 10 and ROS?

I'm not optimistic.  The offensive line is dinged up, the offense has absolutely no rhythm and the season is on the brink of being lost.  Fournette is a key piece of the Jags getting back on track this year, but he's just one piece.

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1 hour ago, tangfoot said:

Translation:  I'm not comfortable paying even half of what you think he's worth, therefore he essentially has zero value because I'll never own him at his asking price.

I think this guy is just ridiculous. They have no value yet he wants all of them. He followed it up with this email:

"What value does Fournette have? Diggs is low as well and fuller just tore his ACL last night lol. AJ green is the best player in that deal."

He wanted my Fournette, Diggs & Fuller for his Olsen, Callaway & AJG...

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On 10/21/2018 at 8:06 AM, jvdesigns2002 said:

Shefter reporting that Fournette is planning on returning after the bye week- which would put him back week 10. Uggh. A complete waste of a pick in redraft.

Well, we've known this since Week 2 or 3. 

While we've also known that he might return from the bye, and given history that's no guarantee that he;ll be able to stay healthy ROS, I am taking the actual reporting out the plans he'll return after the bye as positive news. JAX may not have the team to compete, they may nearly be out of the running by then, but a Fournette on the field could be a key addition to jump-starting some (if nowhere near all) of JAX's woes, and will help my team down the stretch.

Fingers crossed.

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1 hour ago, NeverEnough said:

I think this guy is just ridiculous. They have no value yet he wants all of them. He followed it up with this email:

"What value does Fournette have? Diggs is low as well and fuller just tore his ACL last night lol. AJ green is the best player in that deal."

He wanted my Fournette, Diggs & Fuller for his Olsen, Callaway & AJG...

I usually try and distance myself from people like that with either a curt but polite no thank you or respond with a picture of some random animals humping. 

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3 hours ago, Buck Bradcanon said:

I had a dream last night that I was getting married (IRL Ive been married for 16 years so not sure..) and I was late coming out of the dressing room or whatever because at the last second I realized that Fournette was actually playing and I should have started him instead of plugging in Trenton Cannon.

No shtick.  :bag::bag::bag:

 

 

The dressing room represents surface level change. Flashy, window dressing level stuff, like having a big name player back in your lineup.  It makes you feel better.  

Trenton cannon represents your current self esteem issues.  You feel low.  Like when your lineup contains garbage like cannon.  You're kind of scraping by in some areas of your life and you feel like you could be doing more if you applied yourself, and you're upset with yourself that you haven't done it yet. And you want to change but you didn't do it in time. 

Getting married represents the worst thing ever. Again, change.

Put it together and i think you're hitting your mid life crisis. Starting to question things in your life - big things and little things - and wanting to change them but thinking you don't have time.

Take some time to think about and prioritize the things you want from the rest of your life.  Write down your goals - a bucket list but not just short term experiences, whatever you would like to have done. Get out there and do some of the ones you won't physically be able to do in 15 years.  

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1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

The dressing room represents surface level change. Flashy, window dressing level stuff, like having a big name player back in your lineup.  It makes you feel better.  

Trenton cannon represents your current self esteem issues.  You feel low.  Like when your lineup contains garbage like cannon.  You're kind of scraping by in some areas of your life and you feel like you could be doing more if you applied yourself, and you're upset with yourself that you haven't done it yet. And you want to change but you didn't do it in time. 

Getting married represents the worst thing ever. Again, change.

Put it together and i think you're hitting your mid life crisis. Starting to question things in your life - big things and little things - and wanting to change them but thinking you don't have time.

Take some time to think about and prioritize the things you want from the rest of your life.  Write down your goals - a bucket list but not just short term experiences, whatever you would like to have done. Get out there and do some of the ones you won't physically be able to do in 15 years.  

OMG the dream interpreter himself has spoken!!!  Thanks bfred!!  :bow:

 

ETA: Pretty damn accurate btw. :unsure:

Edited by Buck Bradcanon

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A guy in my league may be interested in trading Dalvin Cook to me for Fournette.

Thoughts?
 

Both guys are suffering with the same type of injury, but seems to me that Cook might be the better play despite schedule ROS. Fournette, however, may be the only offense JAX can muster and at least he's been resting it longer.

Or is this just a wash in terms of trading misery for misery?

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27 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

A guy in my league may be interested in trading Dalvin Cook to me for Fournette.

Thoughts?
 

Both guys are suffering with the same type of injury, but seems to me that Cook might be the better play despite schedule ROS. Fournette, however, may be the only offense JAX can muster and at least he's been resting it longer.

Or is this just a wash in terms of trading misery for misery?

I think part of Cook's health is the typical slow recovery from his ACL surgery last year.

I think part of Fournette's health is that he's a head case.

I think that I'd rather take my chances that Cook will be close to 100% by Week 13 than Fournette.

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21 hours ago, NeverEnough said:

I think this guy is just ridiculous. They have no value yet he wants all of them. He followed it up with this email:

"What value does Fournette have? Diggs is low as well and fuller just tore his ACL last night lol. AJ green is the best player in that deal."

He wanted my Fournette, Diggs & Fuller for his Olsen, Callaway & AJG...

Ask him why he is interested in your crap players and ignore him.

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14 hours ago, [scooter] said:

I think part of Fournette's health is that he's a head case.

Huh?

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He is a complete POS c sucker , I have never been emotional about a fantasy player before but this turd evokes the worst type of dislike

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