Milkman
Footballguy
It's a question of health/motivation not talent with Fournette. He should be motivated after almost getting cut traded last year. Can he stay healthy?
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RB Leonard Fournette, FA (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
As a guy who was super high on Fournette and had him in all of my dynasty leagues at one point, I'm sorry but I don't get this sentiment.
Health aside, he has looked horrible in the NFL. He has one play with a nice spin move and one super leap over the pile at the goaline and the rest of his NFL career has been an amalgam of him just running straight and falling over at first contact.
He was a bull in college. Impossible to bring down. Whether it's the injuries or just the different game that hasn't been the case in the NFL. He goes down easily, which isn't good since making people miss is not part of his game. The stats bear that out as his efficiency has been terrible even with one 90 yard run blown defense run where he just ran straight inflating the numbers.
He's one of those guys where his health and off the field issues have been in the limelight so much that people haven't really paid attention to how he just hasn't looked good as a football player even when he's been out there. He's compiled some decent volume based fantasy stats at times, but that volume won't hold up if he doesn't actually start doing something impressive with the football.
Milkman
Footballguy
You're right he hasn't done much in the NFL. We have these spots in FF a lot where we need to figure out if it's the situation or something else like a lack of talent/health/motivation.
I see a lot of similarities in DJ and Fournette's situations. They aren't the same players skill wise but they both struggled for similar reasons. If you watched DJ last year you would think he wasn't very good. The season DJ put up in 2016 shows otherwise. The NFL gives us a hint of who they thought was the best player on the Jags offense by the way they consistently stacked the box against them last year.
A couple things here. The Jags have the best QB they've had in years. So defenses are going to have to defend more of the field now. The Jags built their entire offense around Fournette last year. He was primed for as much volume as any back in the league and then he got hurt.
I wouldn't blame anybody for giving up on him but he's one of the most talented RB in the league to me and I've always loved Foles so I'm holding him and hoping he doesn't get hurt. It very well could blow up in my face because he hasn't been able to get healthy but it wouldn't surprise me if he had a line like 300-1400-12.
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Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Developing chemistry with Foles is interesting but the Jags seem to have a lot of mouths to feed in receivers Westbrook, Lee, Cole, Chark, and now Josh Oliver at TE.
Fournette has talent but his ankles and his heart are questionable and his play inconsistent.
Even last year, coming off health issues and tons of games lost, he finished the season with 6 TDs in 6 games -- so he's able to ball.
My question is whether he will withstand the ongoing punishment and not miss games, and come back to 2017 form.
I'll let others take the risk and gladly go with other options around his tier like Cook, Damien Williams, and even Devonta Freeman.
Fournette has talent but his ankles and his heart are questionable and his play inconsistent.
Even last year, coming off health issues and tons of games lost, he finished the season with 6 TDs in 6 games -- so he's able to ball.
My question is whether he will withstand the ongoing punishment and not miss games, and come back to 2017 form.
I'll let others take the risk and gladly go with other options around his tier like Cook, Damien Williams, and even Devonta Freeman.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
The point about these receivers not being elite seems really tangential. They just need to be credible pass catchers and I think they are -- it's a talented group as a whole. Foles there could also make them look that much better.
My point about a lot of mouths to feed was squarely in reaction to the quote Faust posted about Fournette being more involved in the passing game.
My points about his ankle and heart still stand in terms of me not being able to trust the guy even if the offense forces Ds out of the box more this year.
Milkman
Footballguy
This is a perfectly reasonable opinion. I just see Fournette as an elite RB and already own him in dynasty so I can't really do anything else but hold him and hope. I mean he has #1 RB in FF upside but he's trading at RB2 value right now.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Definitely an elite talent, and as a dynasty holder, don't fault you at all for not selling him at steep discount and seeing if a more spread D can help.
You had a solid point about the entire built around him and the running game last year as well, and I can't see that philopsophy remaining with Foles on board.
Fournette could be a steal if he stays healthy and motivated given slipping ADP this year. For me, those are ifs to really think about and I do fear his ankles situation continues to impact him given his power running style
There's too much risk for me personally in redraft given what other RBs could be had around his tier, but that's not to say he couldn't turn it around with a fresh-look Jags this year.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Again, I don't see why every post with this dude starts with "obviously he's an elite talent", or "he's definitely super talented".
What is his elite talent? He's relatively fast for a guy his size. That's pretty much it. Does he make defenders miss? No. Does he break tackles? Not really. Does he have excessive strength that actually translates to the football field? No.
Not just going off box scores here. I've watched probably every carry this guy has ever had college and pro. I was rather obsessed with him in college and coming out as a prospect. In college as a Gator it was so frustrating watching every play where it looked like we were going to bottle him up for 2 yards and he just rammed through it all and picked up 7 yards on the play. Over and over.
In the NFL, that just hasn't happened for him. A guy gets a pinky on his thigh and he falls over. When it looks like he's going to be bottled up for 2 yards he gets 1 yard instead. He has not looked like anything resembling his draft position in the actual NFL. If I took away their pre-draft hype and put his play side by side with Latavius Murray's you would not be able to pick out which one was supposed to be a top 5 talent.
Watch a highlight video of Fournette's NFL play and then watch one of Nick Chubb's. Chubb is everything in the NFL that Fournette was supposed to be. Elite acceleration, defenders just bouncing off of him at every turn as a 3 yard run turns into a 15 yard run over and over again. Fournette has been none of that. Chubb does more impressive on one play in his highlights than Fournette does in his entire video of NFL action.
Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane, and all that.
What is his elite talent? He's relatively fast for a guy his size. That's pretty much it. Does he make defenders miss? No. Does he break tackles? Not really. Does he have excessive strength that actually translates to the football field? No.
Not just going off box scores here. I've watched probably every carry this guy has ever had college and pro. I was rather obsessed with him in college and coming out as a prospect. In college as a Gator it was so frustrating watching every play where it looked like we were going to bottle him up for 2 yards and he just rammed through it all and picked up 7 yards on the play. Over and over.
In the NFL, that just hasn't happened for him. A guy gets a pinky on his thigh and he falls over. When it looks like he's going to be bottled up for 2 yards he gets 1 yard instead. He has not looked like anything resembling his draft position in the actual NFL. If I took away their pre-draft hype and put his play side by side with Latavius Murray's you would not be able to pick out which one was supposed to be a top 5 talent.
Watch a highlight video of Fournette's NFL play and then watch one of Nick Chubb's. Chubb is everything in the NFL that Fournette was supposed to be. Elite acceleration, defenders just bouncing off of him at every turn as a 3 yard run turns into a 15 yard run over and over again. Fournette has been none of that. Chubb does more impressive on one play in his highlights than Fournette does in his entire video of NFL action.
Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane, and all that.
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dipandglide
Footballguy
Initially, I was a buyer. But I’ve started to cool on his prospects going forward and am selling where I can. Health, off the field problems, and questionable work ethic are major red flags.
What separates guys like Tiger, MJ, AB, and LeBron from the others is their work ethic and daily drive. The money hasn’t softened that drive like it does many others. I’ve always admired that. Unfortunately, Fournette looks to have softened up after getting paid. Maybe he can make one last push to find that next contract.
What separates guys like Tiger, MJ, AB, and LeBron from the others is their work ethic and daily drive. The money hasn’t softened that drive like it does many others. I’ve always admired that. Unfortunately, Fournette looks to have softened up after getting paid. Maybe he can make one last push to find that next contract.
Yeah I agree with your sentiments. The Jags pass catchers are the worst in their division and probably a bottom 5 unit in the league. Bottom 10 at best. If they’re considered talented then you’d have to consider almost every group talented.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
To be clear, you seem to be saying he hasn't displayed elite or high talent level at the NFL level.
Not sure that's a controversial opinion that you'll find a lot of disagreement about. Also a different argument than him not having high end/elite talent at all, which I would disagree with.
He's clearly not lived up to the hype generated by the very clear talent he showed in high school and college. Based on that talent displayed on the field, he came into the draft as the top RB prospect and the 3rd highest graded player overall, touted as a top 10 pick, and had a rookie campaign where he surpassed 1K yards of 260+ carries, 9 TDs and a 3.9 avg on a team that gave him little help on the offense.
Fournette's biggest knock in the draft was lack of wiggle and making defenders miss -- again, not a controversial or a new knock. I also question his motivation (off-field/non-game issues) and his constant missing time/inability to play through injury. I also think the nature of his habitual ankle injuries (injuries that made him miss time starting his junior year in college) are pervasive and will continue to be an on-going issue, especially with his hard-nosed style.
Is Fournette super talented? Unquestionably in my mind.
Has he utilized it consistently in the NFL? No, which is what makes him a pass for me this year.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Certainly appears sentiment regarding Fournette couldn’t be any lower...at the same time, I’ll be interested to ask the same question in a months time if he’s having a good TC.
jm192
Footballguy
I'm really eager to see how he looks in Camp/pre-season.
I do think he's an elite talent. The injury concerns drop him down. I've got him as RB 18 right now. I've struggled with Fournette, Henry, Mack and Aaron Jones as a group.
Mack's had injury issues. Jones still has the concern of Jamal Williams.
If everyone played 16 games, I think Fournette and Henry see the most volume. Which makes it hard for me not to want the guy I was drafting late 1st/early 2nd round last year.
I do think he's an elite talent. The injury concerns drop him down. I've got him as RB 18 right now. I've struggled with Fournette, Henry, Mack and Aaron Jones as a group.
Mack's had injury issues. Jones still has the concern of Jamal Williams.
If everyone played 16 games, I think Fournette and Henry see the most volume. Which makes it hard for me not to want the guy I was drafting late 1st/early 2nd round last year.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Manster
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Oh I have no doubt for how bad Bortles is. I’m just not sure Nick Foles will be better once he is away from good coaching.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I'm surprised this is still the way most people see Fournette. Take away the injuries, take away the off the field stuff. Even with all of that sorted out he's been nothing more than a volume dependent JAG with no wiggle who breaks no tackles and runs with the power of a guy half his size. Even when healthy and on the field he's looked more like a 4th rounder than a 4th overall pick as a player.
It's like the injuries and off the field stuff have distracted people from how poor of an actual running back he's been.
Milkman
Footballguy
At least you're consistent. We've been over this so no need to beat a dead horse. We disagree.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
You make a fair point and the same could have been said about Derrick Henry. But at the end of the day, both of these guys are ~230lb RBs that can break off 90yd runs despite all their other flaws. I really want to put him on my do not draft list, but I just can't. He's being drafted as RB15-18 and could easily finish top 10. To frame it a different way, there isn't an RB being drafted after him that I would rather have.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Manster
Footballguy
leftcoastheel
Footballguy
He's fallen to the likes of Jones/Gordon (w/ his news)/Kerryon/Mack. Honestly, I will take Fournette all day in the third over these guys, even though he ruined a number of my teams last year via injury AND THEN by being an idiot. Massive upgrade at QB, good reports coming out of camp, being installed in the passing game, critical year for his career, etc.
I agree with this sentiment.
jm192
Footballguy
I'm starting to think I'm too low on him. He was going late 1st/early 2nd last year.
He's a workhorse with no competition for touches. He'll get the goal line touches and the passing work. If I draft him in the 3rd or 4th and he winds up as such, I'm not disappointed. But if he winds up as a low end RB1, I won't be surprised at all.
He's a workhorse with no competition for touches. He'll get the goal line touches and the passing work. If I draft him in the 3rd or 4th and he winds up as such, I'm not disappointed. But if he winds up as a low end RB1, I won't be surprised at all.
Skoo
Footballguy
In 2017 Fournette had the top 2 fastest plays with ball in hands of the entire NFL season. Yes, faster than players such as Tyreek Hill.
At 230 pounds.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Which was useful for the two plays against blown defenses where all he had to do with run straight.
The rest of his runs where one of the 11 defenders on the field was in his way, he wasn't very good.
Skoo
Footballguy
Just sayin, you claimed he played like a 4th rounder instead of a 4th pick overall.
4th rounders can't do that.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
at his current adp price in redraft...i think he is decent value....would consider him at rb after dalvin cook. kerryon and damien williams....i think he catches more passes than people think this season
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
This. He always is said to have poor hands but 40-55 catches is a real possibility if he stays healthy. I hope the Bills don't cut Yeldon and he ends up back in Jacksonville.
Elevencents
Footballguy
Elevencents
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I hope so. I know he won a SB but he also basically washed out of the league once before. I think it's more of a wildcard.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
When I see stats like this, it really makes me question the accuracy and method of measurement.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
I don't like advocating for Fournette because he's far from my favorite player, but he's a home run hitter that you can get in the third round. Again look at Derrick Henry who has a similar adp. He's another big back with a low YPC that wasn't breaking tackles until he blew up for 238yds and 4TDs against the Jags (a game where Fournette played like hot garbage).
Fournette will have at least a couple games this season where he posts a week winning stat line. The question is can he do it consistently and stay healthy.
Skoo
Footballguy
While I certainly can't verify the stats, it shows why he was selected #4 overall. Guys his size simply shouldn't be able to run that fast. He's a freak. That said, most of the criticism laid on him is valid as well.
If he can actually stay on the field he might be a part of both my keeper league team and the Jags in 2020, so he should be motivated to do both.
This is his make-or-break year for sure.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Nope, if he’s healthy he is challenging for most touches for an NFL RB
Shocked to see how low he's going. I know injuries have held him back but hopefully due for a healthy one.........will he lose many touches if healthy?
not shocked. He's right at that spot where he could go pay off, but there is some caution there. Besides injury risk with his ankle and hamstring, team generally isn't that exciting and I'm not sure the OC knows how to scheme the run game.
Shocked to see how low he's going. I know injuries have held him back but hopefully due for a healthy one.........will he lose many touches if healthy?
