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Charcandrick WEST - Should we be talking about this kid ? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Casting Couch
- Start date
Really depends on Reid's loyalty/preference for West. But yeah, I share your sentiments... I'd rather him play just to make sure he doesn't lose his job.
oddsbodkins
Footballguy
People sure are reading a lot into Ware's second half against the worst run defense in the league... that essentially quit playing after the pick 6. West won't get Wally Pipp'd. Ware earned a few more carries but West has been a beast since JC went out.
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Charcandrick had 11 carries for 16 yards against that very same worst run defense.
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zamboni
Footballguy
Right, and despite how well West has played, he's still likely not Lou Gehrig in Reid's mind - while Charles is.
oddsbodkins
Footballguy
And a 47-yard reception. Chances are West would've had similar success in the second half after the Chargers decided they'd rather not try the rest of the game.
lol So they weren't trying when Ware was in but they were when West was in? Damn, I didn't know that. No wonder West looked like garbage.
Shutout
Footballguy
If it were Charles, sure, but West doesn't have the pedigree to hold off Ware or anyone else if Ware (or anyone else) comes in and puts up that type of performance.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Chicken/egg. It's been discussed but this was the same hamstring he injured vs. DET and it's very possible it was re-aggravated at some point before he was taken out of the game. It would better explain his ineffectiveness because I do not believe there to be some huge chasm between the talent of West/Ware.
I honestly don't know how this is going to shake out but I do know whoever gets the nod is going to be extremely valuable. I just hope this thread doesn't devolve into old West owners vs. new Ware owners. Bias is crap.
Shutout
Footballguy
What's the saying? Being available is the best asset a player can bring to the table. Being available and then producing when an opportunity is presented is at least 50% of this game. Just this year, Freeman might be the Paragon of this as a team had multiple options they expected to complement one another, ride the hot hand, etc, but then one guy is available and the other is not...rest is history.
On this team, especially, it makes sense. we all saw Knile Davis be every bit as productive last year as West has been but Reid didn't immediately jump back to him. West worked hard and produced and was rewarded. Underestimating the real life dynamic of what coaches see during the preparation and then sending a message to players that hard work is rewarded, should not be underestimated. Ware is an extremely good example of a success story to stick on the PS and then be ready when called upon. Coaches like that. It is very motivating to players and very good at making them look good to owners and GMs.
Shutout
Footballguy
Where are all the Foster naysayers?? They should show up here to remind us that hamstring injuries can knock a guy out for a month or so.
It IS worth mentioning/reminding that hammies can be one of those things that, IF the team has another reliable option, is sometimes better left to rest to fully heal.
oddsbodkins
Footballguy
Are we having a hard time reading? It's my belief, again, that after the pick 6, the Chargers weren't interested anymore. West was already out of the game then. He looked awful on that 47 yard catch. Just disgusting.
oddsbodkins
Footballguy
Agree. I own both so I really don't care. I just look at West's three games against much harder competition and find that a much more reliable barometer than one half against one of the worst run defenses this decade, in a game where the outcome was already decided.
I read what you said. And if you don't think the players on that underachieving San Diego team are playing for their jobs, then you know nothing about football and the unguaranteed contracts. I get it, you own West and are trying desperately to downplay how much better Ware looked on Sunday. That's human nature. But you aren't talking to middle school kids. To simply dismiss Ware's performance by saying the defense didn't care is moronic.
oddsbodkins
Footballguy
Well, I guess you missed the part where I mentioned I own both, so that bias argument doesn't hold water. And if you think that NFL players are immune from checking out of games here and there, especially in the second half of a game that's already decided, I think you might be a little out of the loop.
Look at Ware's big run... that hole in the line was so large, Poe could've gained 20. Again, I'm not trying to say Ware is a garbage player but I don't think he's anywhere near the all-around back West is at this point. Haven't seen enough of him in pass protection but it's Alex Smith so does it really matter? lol
Shutout
Footballguy
Devil's advocate side:
Detroit is ranked worse in run defense than the Chargers and the Broncos #### the bed that day and were a flaming dumpster heap. THe Steelers game seemed normal. SO, the huge comparison difference isn't all that great. Add in that you can heavily argue that by the time Ware made his appearance, wouldn't you think the Chargers would be expecting run, run and more run, making it a bit more predictable?
It's hard to put any of these things in a vacuum. We could also say that Ware benefited from a team not expecting him at all or maybe he's just a lot fresher.
We could spin it several ways. That's why I like looking at it from other angles, like health of the players, tendencies of the coaches, and common sense things like that.
The thing that I think gives Ware some room to build on here is that, if nothing else, if the Chiefs think or know that West is the guy they prefer BUT they also know that Davis and Ware can give similar results AND are healthier, then I think they play it more cautious with West. This team is still in the playoff race.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
And West was a JAG....until Charles couldn't go. Just like everyone thought Freeman was a JAG and Dion Lewis was a JAG. Call him a cheetah or a sloth...I don't care. Real team. Real team with playoff hopes. One RB has a hamstring which typically is best served with rest. The other guy just went out and did the job well. You tell me, what is the incentive to put West back out there at less than 100% when your "jag" is about 95% of what West was? What's the payoff?
Shutout
Footballguy
Of course it is. I own Charles, West and Ware in leagues here or there so my input is more of what I think is reasonable vs. I only have one or the other to back.
IMO, it is much harder today (11/24/15) to feel comfortable with West than Ware solely due to the injury. Does he play? If so, does he tweak it again after five carries? Does he look ineffective after 5 carries?
If I were the coach, my thinking would be along the lines of knowing West has looked good BUT also knowing that Ware might be just as effective and I could afford to let Ware play and rest West to get him healthy as we try to make the playoffs. That is what makes sense to me.
Today, I would rather have Ware. Two weeks from now it could be Davis. Who knows?
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
VaTerp
Footballguy
Sad but predictable that these things usually devolve into biased commentary based on FF ownership.
Im heavily relying on West as a RB2 in one league where I missed on both Ware and Rawls on FCFC pickups. I did get Ware in another league where I don't have the same RB needs. All that to say I'm looking at this pretty objectively.
I'm very concerned about West moving forward b/c 1) as well all know hamstrings can linger and be very problematic and 2) Ware looked good out there. I don't care what qualifiers anyone wants to use. The guy ran with impressive burst, power, and vision and has to be considered a major threat to West's value going forward.
I don't know that Ware brings to the table what West does in the passing game and as a West owner you have to hope that the he gets through the hamstring issue as quickly as possible. But at the very least, I think Ware could vulture some goaline work. He appears to have the skill set of a very good short yardage runner.
IMO KC would perhaps be most effective with Ware getting the early down work and West being the 3rd down/passing situation guy. Reid has a history of leaning on one back, and for my sake I hope West can get healthy and continue to be that guy since he seems to fit more of the Westbrook/Charles mold that Reid has utilized for much of his coaching history. But Ware is definitely a threat to what was such promising value for West headed into this past Sunday's games.
Im heavily relying on West as a RB2 in one league where I missed on both Ware and Rawls on FCFC pickups. I did get Ware in another league where I don't have the same RB needs. All that to say I'm looking at this pretty objectively.
I'm very concerned about West moving forward b/c 1) as well all know hamstrings can linger and be very problematic and 2) Ware looked good out there. I don't care what qualifiers anyone wants to use. The guy ran with impressive burst, power, and vision and has to be considered a major threat to West's value going forward.
I don't know that Ware brings to the table what West does in the passing game and as a West owner you have to hope that the he gets through the hamstring issue as quickly as possible. But at the very least, I think Ware could vulture some goaline work. He appears to have the skill set of a very good short yardage runner.
IMO KC would perhaps be most effective with Ware getting the early down work and West being the 3rd down/passing situation guy. Reid has a history of leaning on one back, and for my sake I hope West can get healthy and continue to be that guy since he seems to fit more of the Westbrook/Charles mold that Reid has utilized for much of his coaching history. But Ware is definitely a threat to what was such promising value for West headed into this past Sunday's games.
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ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
? West was never JAG, just undrafted due to small school. Ware has been dumped by two teams who thought he was JAG.
So he was a JAG to major colleges first. Them a JAG to NFL teams. You're proving our point.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
Would it be equally moronic to throw out Sharc's production over the past games this season dating back to pre-season while focusing in on the first half of a single game where he was 11 for 16 (also you omitted his long catch) and came out injured (possibly playing on several downs as an injured player, and omitting the fact that Reid chose to ride him as 2nd in the pecking order behind Charles, in front of Knile Davis and Ware?
chad in Indy
Footballguy
How effective is Ware as a pass-catching back? I haven't watched him play, so asking. That is a big part of the Any Reid/Alex Smith offense, so if he isn't, then West would still be the back to own if/when healthy. Otherwise, I would see Ware a a temporary play.
I've never once claimed that Ware is a better back. I claimed that Ware seems to ALSO fit in well and is productive in this very RB-friendly Kansas City offense. If West is only 99.9% healthy on Sunday, Reid has no reason to risk a hamstring flareup with West when Ware is just as able to be productive. If West is 100% healthy, then I imagine the job is his again, although I'd expect Ware to get more work than he got before this week.Would it be equally moronic to throw out Sharc's production over the past games this season dating back to pre-season while focusing in on the first half of a single game where he was 11 for 16 (also you omitted his long catch) and came out injured (possibly playing on several downs as an injured player, and omitting the fact that Reid chose to ride him as 2nd in the pecking order behind Charles, in front of Knile Davis and Ware?
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
He's capable but doesn't excel in that department. West is most certainly a better pass catching RB.
This is also part of the reason why Reid liked West so much as he's flexible enough to be a threat no matter the down or distance. He fits the mold of Westbrook, Charles and etc. more so than Ware. As I stated earlier, Ware is a no nonsense north/south runner who knows how to fully utilize his 230 pound frame. Knile Davis, for instance, couldn't catch a cold which is why I so interested in West even before Charles went down. When you like to lean on one RB as Reid does, flexibility is key. If West were to sit this week (or for an extended period of time) I think we'd see a little bit more of D. Thomas (assuming he clears concussion protocol).
I know there's no date but this is the first hit on a Google search for Chiefs practice report.
http://m.chiefs.com/team/injury-report.html
http://m.chiefs.com/team/injury-report.html
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
oddsbodkins
Footballguy
Says that's for Week 11.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
if west were in danger of missing time wouldnt we get news of them working out a RB? that's what they did when charles went down.. but they elected to just promote ware from practice squad... of course if they end up signing one of the RB's the worked out a month ago then you can definitely start to panic
dansav
Footballguy
Were you picked on as a kid? If you won powerball you would complain that you had to pay taxes.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
They have Reaves on the PS I believe, if so I think they can activate him late in the week.
I'm not the one scrambling to come up with reasons why my guy sucked against the same defense his backup ran through like a hot knife through butter. And I haven't complained once. I'm loving it.
oddsbodkins
Footballguy
60+ total yards in the first half. Sucked!!!!I'm not the one scrambling to come up with reasons why my guy sucked against the same defense his backup ran through like a hot knife through butter. And I haven't complained once. I'm loving it.
zamboni
Footballguy
Probably today when they practice. I'm sure all we'll get though is that he didn't practice.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
oddsbodkins
Footballguy
Good. Rest him up for the cushy close to the schedule.
AcerFC
Footballguy
shady inc
Footballguy
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