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Charcandrick WEST - Should we be talking about this kid ? (2 Viewers)

I tend to agree with this who think that west will be the lead back, despite some work for ware.

However, for those who agree, are you not concerned that west tweaks the hammy and is forced out (or is limited) today?

That possibility combined with the committee issues make me bearish on him. Think I will be sitting both for duke.

 
If you have the luxury of RB depth, the best move is to start neither for one week to see how Reid uses them. Plus, to see where West's hamstring is. With Ware playing so well, if West indicates just a little bit of stiffness or feels the slightest twinge, they have no reason not to play it safe and pull him.

If I owned both and had to start one, I'd lean toward West. He's a bit more versatile and closer to what Reid seems to prefer as his lead back.

As someone with no more of a clue than anyone else here, I'd predict a 60/40 spilt in West's favor. I could see Ware getting a few series all to himself, but think West will get more snaps.

 
When Charles went down everyone thought Davis was next man up but it was West and no RBBC.West gets hurt it then became Ware and no RBBC.

Now West is back practicing in full since early in the week.multiple practices without any issues.Since joining KC Reid hasnt shown he likes RBBC at all..Why would he start now? this offense needs a rb who can catch the ball.Ware is one dimensional straight line runner.

Going by the old coaching saying that you never lose your job due to injury I suspect West will get a TON of work this week as the featured RB in the KC offense.

 
The question for me is the hamstring really healthy?? Hammys can linger.
That's what I'm hoping for. Not starting Ware this week but would like to see him be "the guy". I don't think it'll happen though. I personally think it'll be West, but we'll see.

 
This was pretty much worst case scenario for me, because I realistically can't and shouldn't start either. The schedule is still relatively soft but that's probably irrelevant. I get to wait another week to see how it shakes out but this looks like a situation to avoid for the rest of the season.

 
BustedKnuckles said:
well now we know where ware is ...in the end zone :wall:

west does all the heavy lifting and ware steals his thunder
Perfect. I ended up starting Ware after all.

 
Don't know the play breakdown, but my impression has been that West was on the field a whole lot more than Ware has been. Good sign for West IMO, given this is his first game back from the injury.

 
BustedKnuckles said:
well now we know where ware is ...in the end zone :wall:

west does all the heavy lifting and ware steals his thunder
Perfect. I ended up starting Ware after all.
In PPR it was barely a flex performance but in standard he's much more appealing.
It was an accident on my part I had to play him. I thought I had hit enter on my lineup earlier but I noticed I only had 1 rb in so I had to go Ware since his game was a late game. I will say West was largely unimpressive so even though he got more looks, he's nothing special.
 
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BustedKnuckles said:
well now we know where ware is ...in the end zone :wall:

west does all the heavy lifting and ware steals his thunder
Perfect. I ended up starting Ware after all.
In PPR it was barely a flex performance but in standard he's much more appealing.
It was an accident on my part I had to play him. I thought I had hit enter on my lineup earlier but I noticed I only had 1 rb in so I had to go Ware since his game was a late game. I will say West was largely unimpressive so even though he got more looks, he's nothing special.
West had a higher YPC and is better as a receiver. I'll be doing my best not to play either for now.

 
mnmplayer said:
BustedKnuckles said:
Where is Ware ?????????
They showed him on the phone with juniornb calculating his ypc. He should be taking over anytime now.
8.5 points for Ware in my standard league. 4.4 for West. I've said all week, I'd start Ware in standard, West in PPR. But thanks for the mention, pal. :)
 
Cross posting this from the Ware thread, when asked why I saw a split share for West at best going forward:

Let's not pretend that West has been the entrenched stud starter... he just got the keys a few weeks back then pretty promptly got hurt. I'd suggest taking a look at the Forte situation (came back to a 50/50 split with Langford) for a good example of what I'm expecting.

One could even pretty easily argue that Ware has looked significantly better:

West: 3.8ypc - 1TD every 33 carries

Ware: 6.5ypc - 1TD every 9 carries

The only area West has excelled is in the passing game, clearly earning him 3rd down duty when back.

In these situations it's best to separate ownership and emotion and look at the numbers. Anyone expecting them to throw Ware on the bench, and make West the bellcow again are far more optimistic than I would be. That ship has sailed. The only way this backfield holds STABLE RB1 or even high end RB2 value going forward is while West stays down.

After that... break out the dice. I'd say Ware gets GL duty, West gets 3rd Down duty... and share from there on out. If they go with a hot hand approach, I expect Ware to pull away from West a bit.
With West looking likely to come back this week, I personally see both with RB2ish value in PPR for different reasons. I would have to be pretty hard up to start West in a non-PPR league this week.
55/45 split 1 TD goes to ware (8.6pts in either)

2 receptions to west (6.4pts in PPR / 4.4 in std)

Rb2-ish value

Pretty cut and dry, IMO

 
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Cross posting this from the Ware thread, when asked why I saw a split share for West at best going forward:

Let's not pretend that West has been the entrenched stud starter... he just got the keys a few weeks back then pretty promptly got hurt. I'd suggest taking a look at the Forte situation (came back to a 50/50 split with Langford) for a good example of what I'm expecting.

One could even pretty easily argue that Ware has looked significantly better:

West: 3.8ypc - 1TD every 33 carries

Ware: 6.5ypc - 1TD every 9 carries

The only area West has excelled is in the passing game, clearly earning him 3rd down duty when back.

In these situations it's best to separate ownership and emotion and look at the numbers. Anyone expecting them to throw Ware on the bench, and make West the bellcow again are far more optimistic than I would be. That ship has sailed. The only way this backfield holds STABLE RB1 or even high end RB2 value going forward is while West stays down.

After that... break out the dice. I'd say Ware gets GL duty, West gets 3rd Down duty... and share from there on out. If they go with a hot hand approach, I expect Ware to pull away from West a bit.
With West looking likely to come back this week, I personally see both with RB2ish value in PPR for different reasons. I would have to be pretty hard up to start West in a non-PPR league this week.
55/45 split1 TD goes to ware (8.6pts in either)

2 receptions to west (6.4pts in PPR / 4.4 in std)

Rb2-ish value

Pretty cut and dry, IMO
Ware also had that 2nd GL attempt that didn't result in any points (I think there was a penalty or time out or something and they ended up not running that 2nd time).

This has shaken out almost exactly ad foreseen. Each have a role and they are cannibalizing one another.

 
Charcandrick West played 34-of-51 snaps Week 13 against the Raiders.

Spencer Ware played on just 17 snaps, but he saw the ones which mattered near the goal line, out-touching West 3-to-1 in the red zone. This split is likely indicative of how the snaps will be divvied up moving forward, with West playing more but Ware getting the high-value touches in scoring position. Both players will continue to have standalone value, but Ware carries the higher ceiling as the better touchdown bet
I'll take the guy who is on the field 2 out of 3 plays - especially given that he has enough to score from distance and that it was his first game back from an injury.

 
34 snaps for West, 17 for Ware.
Your league giving points for snaps, now? How many points did he get you this week?

Foundation of opinion checkdown progression

[ ] Scored more points in PPR

[ ] Scored more points in standard

[ ] Had significantly more touches

[X] Was on field more

[ ] Has prettier teeth

The bottom line is this is playing out how all but the most biased West owners saw coming. Neither was particularly productive. Luckily KC goes into SD so West and Ware might be able to piece together something resembling RB2 value. I'd hate to have been relying on either of these guys as a starter this past week... or going forward as anything other than a flex.

 
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[icon] said:
oddsbodkins said:
34 snaps for West, 17 for Ware.
Your league giving points for snaps, now? How many points did he get you this week?

Foundation of opinion checkdown progression

[ ] Scored more points in PPR

[ ] Scored more points in standard

[ ] Had significantly more touches

[X] Was on field more

[ ] Has prettier teeth

The bottom line is this is playing out how all but the most biased West owners saw coming. Neither was particularly productive. Luckily KC goes into SD so West and Ware might be able to piece together something resembling RB2 value. I'd hate to have been relying on either of these guys as a starter this past week... or going forward as anything other than a flex.
The bottom line is also that in his first game back from injury, West was given the majority of the snaps. Also of note is the fact that Oakland brought a middle of the road run defense into this game, and the RB production by KC this week was far below normal. Both West and Ware had far better efficiency numbers when operating in a more featured role. I have no way of knowing if KC will look at that as an aberration and stick with last weeks formula or if they will go back to featuring one guy. Neither does anyone else here.

 
The Chiefs only ran 48 plays too, so I don't think West got his typical usage. Ware benefited from Oakland turnovers being returned deep into Oak territory. West also lost out due to a couple turnovers by the Chiefs themselves. I think West will be the safer play with Ware being TD dependent.

 
I own west and ware, and was hoping for an easy decision for a week 14 flex replacement of Randall Cobb. If I had to pick right now, I think I might go west. Not awful, but not ideal.

 
Chiefs have a great schedule over the next few weeks. Both running backs should do well. I like West against my Chargers to get 100 yards and at least a TD.

 
Dear Shark Pool members,

If you are spending time giving us your personal opinion via through 4 paragraphs of analysis please spend your life doing other things. We don't care. We just want actual updates. Not well based on what coach bob said I thing he meant this and the split will really be 70/30. lol

Please stop. Get a life. This is my rant. Carry on.
I suppose I could just say West has more upside.

Some people might be interested in why I might think that. The devil is in the details. Some of this would pertain to any RB situation, not just this one.

Most recent game:

C West RB 34 snaps 67% 9 rushing attempts 35 yards 3.9ypc 3 targets 2 receptions 9 yards 44 total yards 3.7 yards per opportunity .353 opportunities per snap

S Ware FB 17 33% 7 rushing attempts 26 yards 3.7ypc 1TD 2 targets 2 receptions -1 yards 25 total yards 2.7 yards per opportunity .529 opportunities per snap

 
oddsbodkins said:
34 snaps for West, 17 for Ware.
2:1 is not a rbbc.
No, but 9 carries (West) to 7 carries (Ware) certainly is a RBBC
This. Unless maybe his league rewards points per snap.
They dont award it per carry either.

I'm talking about opportunity. When you have a 2-1 time on the field scenario.... that's not a RBBC.

We shall see this week against SD if it plays out again in such fashion.

 
Its pretty hard to argue this ISN'T an RBBC - clearly it is. If you are disagreeing, you are drinking a little too much of the kool-aid
i agree that last week was...but the team may have been seeing how west was going to react to extended playing...he may settle in this week as the full time starter

 
Its pretty hard to argue this ISN'T an RBBC - clearly it is. If you are disagreeing, you are drinking a little too much of the kool-aid
Actually it really isn't hard to argue at all. West outsnapped Ware 2 to 1. I can't say this for a fact, but its very likely the carries will follow that ratio. The carry distribution in the last weeks game could easily have been affected by penalties, game flow etc.

Its a similar concept to following the targets of WRs. More opportunities = more production. If West is on the field twice as much he's extremely likely to be much more productive.

 
Its pretty hard to argue this ISN'T an RBBC - clearly it is. If you are disagreeing, you are drinking a little too much of the kool-aid
Actually it really isn't hard to argue at all. West outsnapped Ware 2 to 1. I can't say this for a fact, but its very likely the carries will follow that ratio. The carry distribution in the last weeks game could easily have been affected by penalties, game flow etc.

Its a similar concept to following the targets of WRs. More opportunities = more production. If West is on the field twice as much he's extremely likely to be much more productive.
what you just said is still a RBBC committee ?

 
I'm scared. Playoff time. Who has confidence in starting him or just holding your nose and praying?

 
I'm scared. Playoff time. Who has confidence in starting him or just holding your nose and praying?
I don't have faith that West will produce, even against San Diego - at least nowhere near the levels pre-injury.

I'm a realistic enough West owner to realize that the injury really opened the door for Ware to assume a big part of this backfield. One can point to the 2:1 ratio of snaps, but it's touches that matter despite being on the field, and Ware will also likely get the critical carries inside the 5. West could score from anywhere on the field, but I wouldn't bank on it necessarily happening.

 

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