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bud29

***Official Kansas City Chiefs Thread*** Andy Reid goes on Food Network, can't win turnover battle there either

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How long is it until this team moves to Mahomes?  Alex Smith has regressed to the mean and can not push this team any further.  Need to get a passing threat to open it up for Hunt and get the ball to their receiving weapons.

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Soooo...The offseason is upon us. :lol: Some exciting and worrisome things heading into next season:

Good - guys back from injury. Eric Berry was obviously the big injury for KC, having him back will instantly improve the defense. The underrated one here is Spencer Ware - Hunt has some pass protection issues, and simply can't (shouldn't) play every snap - there was a huge dropoff in talent when he came off the field and West came on. It'll be nice to have a really solid RB2 - a healthy Spencer Ware is a damn good RB.

Bad - coaching. There's absolutely something to be said about the benefits of coaching continuity - and after many seasons of fluctuaton between being a mediocre team and an awful one, it's hard to turn on a coaching staff that has produced consistent winning seasons - but it's time to take a long, hard look at some other options. Today's embarrassment fell squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, and it seems like that's the story with nearly every playoff loss. Reid has one postseason victory in the last decade. This team is talented, and past the point of simply hoping for winning seasons. The goal is a Super Bowl, and this staff has never come close to getting there.

Good - Mahomes! It is very unlikely that Smith is not traded this offseason, meaning the keys of the offense will be handed to the young guy. There will be growing pains for sure, but Mahomes has performed very well and flashed ridiculous potential in the opportunities he's gotten so far. Will be very exciting to see what he can do with Hill and Kelce.

Bad - Resources for improvement. KC is without its 1st round draft pick this year due to the trade that landed Mahomes, and would only have $4MM in cap space if free agency began today. Will be difficult to patch up areas of need. Smith being traded will help some of this - will free up $18MM in cap space and presumably fetch a draft pick or two - and I'm guessing that some older pricey veterans like Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, and Dustin Colquitt will be gone as well.

Looking towards the draft and free agency, here are some of the areas of need I see:

1. CB - The spot opposite Marcus Peters is a total question mark. Darelle Revis is obviously not the long-term answer.

2. NT - Bennie Logan was only signed to a one-year deal, leaving a big hole in the middle of the DL.

3. Edge - There were many games this season in which KC totally failed to put any sort of pressure on the QB. Hali is old and ineffective. Ford is always injured and is only productive when playing Houston's position. '17 2nd round draft pick Tanoh Kpassagnon seems to have potential and had an okay outing in week 17 when all of KC's starters rested, but whether or not he can develop into a reliable starter is still anybody's guess.

4. ILB - Father Time caught up to Derrick Johnson, unfortunately. Newly acquired Reggie Ragland is thriving in his role as the run-stuffing SILB, but I'm not sold on Kevin Pierre-Louis being Johnson's long-term replacement at WILB. I think they would be wise to take a look at some other options.

5. TE - Kelce is a total stud, no doubt. As was exhibited today, however, his backups are totally unreliable. Demetrius Harris has always been a "potential" guy, but has never really taken the leap - still has issues with drops. Orson Charles? Awful.

 

Since 2014, Kansas City has blown a 31-10 lead in the playoffs, a 21-3 lead in the playoffs, and became the first team to lose a postseason game despite allowing zero touchdowns. If nothing else, you become pretty mentally tough being a fan of this team.

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7 hours ago, bud29 said:

Soooo...The offseason is upon us. 

Good - Mahomes! It is very unlikely that Smith is not traded this offseason, meaning the keys of the offense will be handed to the young guy. There will be growing pains for sure, but Mahomes has performed very well and flashed ridiculous potential in the opportunities he's gotten so far. Will be very exciting to see what he can do with Hill and Kelce.

What do you think they'll expect back in a trade for QB who doesn't want to be there when everyone knows the team doesn't want to him? A 5th?

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Lots of qb needy teams would pay at least a 2nd for Smith. Chiefs don’t have to move him. He was wildly successful this year, excluding the 2nd half of last nights game. 

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1 hour ago, Sebowski said:

What do you think they'll expect back in a trade for QB who doesn't want to be there when everyone knows the team doesn't want to him? A 5th?

I’ve thought about that, but San Francisco got two 2nds for him when they had clearly put all their eggs in Kaepernick’s basket. Obviously Smith is older and more expensive now, but I don’t think a late 2nd is out of the question. 

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2 hours ago, IHEARTFF said:

Lots of qb needy teams would pay at least a 2nd for Smith. Chiefs don’t have to move him. He was wildly successful this year, excluding the 2nd half of last nights game. 

'Lots' is a huge reach. Maybe a couple. Fact is they will all low ball since everyone knows the Chiefs want to ship him out. Most of the 'Lots' are drafting their guy this year and they won't pay a 2nd for a guy that will be replaced midseason.

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Jimmy G went for a 2nd. I think that outs Smith at about a 4th or 5th. Maybe a playoff condition to bump a round higher. 

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Agree 100% with this assessment: Chiefs need change, and should begin by firing defensive coordinator Bob Sutton

Excerpt:

Sutton has no excuse, and no cushion.

The Chiefs were 28th in total defense, and 27th in yards surrendered per play. They could not stop the run (24th in yards per carry, 202 given up in the playoff loss), which tended to overshadow the fact that they could not stop the pass (24th in yards per attempt).

The advanced metrics, if anything, are worse. Football Outsiders’ DVOA ranks the Chiefs dead last in the league in overall defense.

This fits what the eye sees, too. They could not get off the field on third down (23rd, and second worst among playoff teams), and could not adjust to opponents’ schemes. Sutton allowed Daniel Sorensen to be exposed against the run for far too long, didn’t do enough to scheme pressure, and was far too easy to manipulate.

His scheme had Justin Houston rushing the passer or dropping into coverage based on what the offense showed, which meant the other side was controlling what the Chiefs’ best player did on any given snap.

Sutton had enough to work with, too, even after losing Eric Berry for the season. The Chiefs spend more than half their salary cap on defense, and that’s with stars like Chris Jones and Marcus Peters still on rookie deals, and Reggie Ragland playing for relative peanuts.

If it was bad luck that Berry played just one game, it was good luck that Houston played 17. The injury excuse is a tired one, anyway. Every team has something. The Titans had two defensive starters on IR, and they managed.

Coaches are supposed to put their players in position to succeed, and far too often, Sutton was doing the opposite. The Patriots gave up an average of 32 points in their first four games (including a season-high 42 to the Chiefs in the opener) and then an average of just 14 the rest of the way.

Patriots coach Bill Belichick is an unrealistic standard for defensive scheme, but this is two years in a row the Chiefs have lost a playoff game at home as the betting favorite largely because they could not stop the run and get off the field on third down.

Against the Titans, a team with a struggling quarterback and dangerous running back, the Chiefs used far too much nickel and even dime personnel — including on Derrick Henry’s 35 yard touchdown run in the fourth quarter.

Whether that was because the Titans were able to influence the Chiefs’ substitutions with their own personnel, or because Sutton made the decision on his own is irrelevant. This just can’t continue.

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It never fails to fascinate me that there is such a huge perceptive difference of player/pick value in the real world (re:NFL) and the FF world.  And despite that occurring repeatedly, FFers don’t seem to learn it.

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4 hours ago, Sebowski said:

Jimmy G went for a 2nd. I think that outs Smith at about a 4th or 5th. Maybe a playoff condition to bump a round higher. 

more likely, imo.

 

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So Nagy is gone, which sucks but is expected. RBs coach Eric Bieniemy is being rumored as a candidate to fill his spot - I wouldn't hate that.

 

Some good news from twitter:

Brandon Kiley @BKSportsTalk

"Rumor has it Bob Sutton's not coming back. I think there's going to be a lot of changes on the #Chiefs defensive staff." - Mike Lombardi on the GM Street Podcast.

8:12 AM - Jan 8, 2018

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I've been a fan of EB since his days back at CU.

Looking forward to what he does with Hunt and Mahomes.

===========================================

https://twitter.com/Chiefs/status/950867676959830016

Kansas City Chiefs‏Verified account @Chiefs

FollowFollow @Chiefs

We have named Eric Bieniemy Offensive Coordinator.

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Shouldn't the topic change to something pertaining to Andy Reid's coaching and his inability to win all the way?  I mean, look at his former assistant coach / offensive coordinator Doug Pederson for leading Reid's previous team to the first Super Bowl victory in team history... in 2nd year. 

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1 hour ago, Aznflyer14 said:

Shouldn't the topic change to something pertaining to Andy Reid's coaching and his inability to win all the way?  I mean, look at his former assistant coach / offensive coordinator Doug Pederson for leading Reid's previous team to the first Super Bowl victory in team history... in 2nd year. 

 

Reid’s previous team?  From 5 years ago?  Reaching a bit there don’t you think?  

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2 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Reid’s previous team?  From 5 years ago?  Reaching a bit there don’t you think?  

What was the team Reid previously coached prior to Chiefs?    He was immediately fired as Eagles' head coach after conclusion of 2012 season... Then he quickly signed with Chiefs at new year of 2013. 

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13 minutes ago, Aznflyer14 said:

What was the team Reid previously coached prior to Chiefs?    He was immediately fired as Eagles' head coach after conclusion of 2012 season... Then he quickly signed with Chiefs at new year of 2013. 

That's a terrible take.

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2 hours ago, Aznflyer14 said:

What was the team Reid previously coached prior to Chiefs?    He was immediately fired as Eagles' head coach after conclusion of 2012 season... Then he quickly signed with Chiefs at new year of 2013. 

 

Okay, so to answer your question: No, the title shouldn’t be changed as you suggested, unless like you the OP has an irrational ax of some kind to grind.

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13 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Okay, so to answer your question: No, the title shouldn’t be changed as you suggested, unless like you the OP has an irrational ax of some kind to grind.

Look, I'm not trying to pull a rhetorical suggestion.  I'm just saying that there is a current narrative on Reid's inability in postseason success

 

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2 hours ago, Aznflyer14 said:

Look, I'm not trying to pull a rhetorical suggestion.  I'm just saying that there is a current narrative on Reid's inability in postseason success

 

I've got no dog in the Andy Reid ability to win post season game fight but does Belichick sit his starting safety if he's facing Andy Reid?  It was the most curious coaching decision ever IMHO because of the stage and timing.  

The rest of the defensive  backfield knows where the guy that they have been playing with all year is going to be, they know who he's going to cover and drop coverage on, they know his tendencies, probably rely on him to make/correct/or give input to calls.  What does BB do minutes before the game?  Sits him and throws the rest of the DBs under the bus because THEY have to make adjustments on the fly.

I don't mean to hijack but to clarify my point - if BB is facing Andy Reid I feel he would not make such a glaringly stupid (ego based?) decision because if the role was reversed would anyone bench their starting safety if they are facing Bill Belichick?  I think BB has greater respect for Andy Reid than he 'had' for Marone.  I just think the outcome of the SB is different if BB was facing Andy Reid because he would put on his big boy pants and start Malcolm Butler even if he has a grudge against him because he would know that Andy Reid would take advantage of that decision but for 'whatever' reason he overlooked Marone to make similar adjustments and now the Andy Reid narrative of not winning big games gets legs due to Marone winning a game that he never should. 

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On 2/7/2018 at 11:33 AM, Bracie Smathers said:

I've got no dog in the Andy Reid ability to win post season game fight but does Belichick sit his starting safety if he's facing Andy Reid?  It was the most curious coaching decision ever IMHO because of the stage and timing.  

The rest of the defensive  backfield knows where the guy that they have been playing with all year is going to be, they know who he's going to cover and drop coverage on, they know his tendencies, probably rely on him to make/correct/or give input to calls.  What does BB do minutes before the game?  Sits him and throws the rest of the DBs under the bus because THEY have to make adjustments on the fly.

I don't mean to hijack but to clarify my point - if BB is facing Andy Reid I feel he would not make such a glaringly stupid (ego based?) decision because if the role was reversed would anyone bench their starting safety if they are facing Bill Belichick?  I think BB has greater respect for Andy Reid than he 'had' for Marone.  I just think the outcome of the SB is different if BB was facing Andy Reid because he would put on his big boy pants and start Malcolm Butler even if he has a grudge against him because he would know that Andy Reid would take advantage of that decision but for 'whatever' reason he overlooked Marone to make similar adjustments and now the Andy Reid narrative of not winning big games gets legs due to Marone winning a game that he never should. 

I dont disagree with you on Belichick''s healthy respect for Reid.   And yes, I was baffled by his decision to not play one of his best and consistent defensive players (granted his 2017 season hadn't match to the same consistency level in 2015 and 2016). 

My take from my initial post on Reid's inability for postseason success is that I do hope that he does learn something from Pederson's aggressive play-calling. 

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13 minutes ago, Magic_Man said:

Marcus Peters traded to the Rams

They better be getting a massive haul or that’s a pretty awful decision.

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17 minutes ago, caustic said:

They better be getting a massive haul or that’s a pretty awful decision.

Being reported it's for draft picks. What picks, not out yet.

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Terez A. Paylor‏Verified account @TerezPaylor

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Already hearing some rumblings about some current Chiefs being upset about this potential Marcus Peters trade. Compensation will be interesting

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10 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

It's too bad for the Chiefs he couldn't fit. I think teams think too far ahead sometimes in terms of contracts. 

From what I read, there were 4 teams interested. Without knowing what KC was asking for, that's a small number in the mix for a Pro Bowl talent w/ 2 years of cost control. Sooo, either he's a richard head that nobody wants a part of, KC was asking too much or KC wanted him out, no matter what. Washington booted Peters out of school early, so my :2cents: is on Peters being a Terrell Owens-sized-headache. 

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On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 1:52 PM, kneeshooter said:

Terez A. Paylor‏Verified account @TerezPaylor

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Already hearing some rumblings about some current Chiefs being upset about this potential Marcus Peters trade. Compensation will be interesting

Well they already moved on from the vet QB and are rolling with Mahomes. their defense with all their talent just couldn't get it done.

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On 2/7/2018 at 2:33 PM, Bracie Smathers said:

I've got no dog in the Andy Reid ability to win post season game fight but does Belichick sit his starting safety if he's facing Andy Reid?  It was the most curious coaching decision ever IMHO because of the stage and timing.  

The rest of the defensive  backfield knows where the guy that they have been playing with all year is going to be, they know who he's going to cover and drop coverage on, they know his tendencies, probably rely on him to make/correct/or give input to calls.  What does BB do minutes before the game?  Sits him and throws the rest of the DBs under the bus because THEY have to make adjustments on the fly.

I don't mean to hijack but to clarify my point - if BB is facing Andy Reid I feel he would not make such a glaringly stupid (ego based?) decision because if the role was reversed would anyone bench their starting safety if they are facing Bill Belichick?  I think BB has greater respect for Andy Reid than he 'had' for Marone.  I just think the outcome of the SB is different if BB was facing Andy Reid because he would put on his big boy pants and start Malcolm Butler even if he has a grudge against him because he would know that Andy Reid would take advantage of that decision but for 'whatever' reason he overlooked Marone to make similar adjustments and now the Andy Reid narrative of not winning big games gets legs due to Marone winning a game that he never should. 

Give me a break with this.  Pederson crushed it in the SB and Reid never could. I'm not sure that it dimishes Reid's overall career, but call it as it is.  Reid didn't take advantage of anything when he had his chance against BB.

Edited by Long Ball Larry

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while I'm excited about the Mahomes era beginning....bottom line is one could argue that we may have lost our best player from last year on both sides of the ball....one would think that can't be a good thing....getting Berry back will be nice, but no first round pick this year hurts a little....I doubt they are getting a first from the Rams....but they better get a haul in the form of multiple picks.....I was optimistic about the potential to remain competitive even without Smith, but the Peters loss is going to hurt a defense that was already in a bad spot.....Fuller helps but need him covering the slot.....somehow need to get a top flight FA corner, but not sure cap space will allow....

Edited by Stinkin Ref

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Holy ####### #### that’s awful:

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter

Full terms on Marcus Peters trade: Chiefs trade CB Marcus Peters and 2018 sixth-round pick to LA for 2019 second-round pick and 2018 fourth-round pick, per league sources.

12:35 PM · Feb 26, 2018

 

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23 minutes ago, caustic said:

Holy ####### #### that’s awful:

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter

Full terms on Marcus Peters trade: Chiefs trade CB Marcus Peters and 2018 sixth-round pick to LA for 2019 second-round pick and 2018 fourth-round pick, per league sources.

12:35 PM · Feb 26, 2018

 

Gotta be another shoe to drop on that, right? Like failed drug tests, misconduct or pending charges or something???!!

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20 minutes ago, caustic said:

Holy ####### #### that’s awful:

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter

Full terms on Marcus Peters trade: Chiefs trade CB Marcus Peters and 2018 sixth-round pick to LA for 2019 second-round pick and 2018 fourth-round pick, per league sources.

12:35 PM · Feb 26, 2018

 

This is why Chiefs fans don't ever come in here. Years of "just good enough" to sell tickets is all the Hunt family cares about.

And this move was all about trying to move a guy who split the fan base because of the anthem antics, which = less ticket sales. 

Chiefs are pathetic. 

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23 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

This is why Chiefs fans don't ever come in here. Years of "just good enough" to sell tickets is all the Hunt family cares about.

And this move was all about trying to move a guy who split the fan base because of the anthem antics, which = less ticket sales. 

Chiefs are pathetic. 

It’s garbage. Especially since Kelce pulls a lot of the same antics as Peters (even anthem protests!), and he got an extension. There were no mysterious leaks about how his behavior “embarrassed” ownership this year.

Something’s different here, just can’t qwhite put my finger on it.

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Just now, caustic said:

It’s garbage. Especially since Kelce pulls a lot of the same antics as Peters (even anthem protests!), and he got an extension. There were no mysterious leaks about how his behavior “embarrassed” ownership this year.

Something’s different here, just can’t qwhite put my finger on it.

There are a couple of incidents that we know about:

1. Walked off the field after the Jets game

2. Got into a fight with Dave Toub (special teams coach) on the team bus after that game

Figure there were probably some locker room antics as well.  Interesting story to be sure. 

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5 hours ago, caustic said:

It’s garbage. Especially since Kelce pulls a lot of the same antics as Peters (even anthem protests!), and he got an extension. There were no mysterious leaks about how his behavior “embarrassed” ownership this year.

Something’s different here, just can’t qwhite put my finger on it.

One difference is that the Chiefs have some awful cap issues and likely could never afford to extend Peters, without greatly exacerbating those issues. Also, Kelce is the engine of the offense, Peters isn't that guy for the defense, Berry is. 

Ultimately this was a business decision and as an outsider(non-Chiefs fan) I think its not an awful haul. It was likely either this, or get one more year, and then get a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2020, and until we see anything to the contrary, 2018 looks like a rebuilding year with Mahomes.

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Watkins here for 3/48 now, 30MM guaranteed. Good weapon for Mahomes, but lots of holes remain on defense. This season could be a lot like Mahomes' TTU days where he had to throw for 500 yards/game to stay competitive. :lol: 

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A lot of ways to look at today's game, but the offense's killer instinct with Mahomes under center was extremely refreshing for me. How many Chiefs teams have we seen build up a comfortable lead (like 21-3 in the playoffs, JFC) only to go cold and blow it? Up 24-12, Mahomes went for the jugular and dropped a beautiful TD to Sherman. Game over. 

On the other hand, this defense (the secondary in particular) is absolutely as bad as we thought. They caught a lot of breaks due to some terrible drops, but they're not going to be so lucky next week against Brown and JuJu. It's almost like trading their wildly talented young CB was a bad idea. 

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kinda felt like KC went in and stole one here...think most had this chalked up as a loss...(Chargers are supposed to win the West remember).....offense looks great...Mahomes is beyond legit....he showed great touch/feel on the pass to Sherman as well as tossing lasers from the pocket or on the move....what separates him from most is that he can unleash a pass at any moment, off back foot, off balance, across his body....running to his left...whatever...as soon as he sees an opening he can exploit it....unfortunately he is going to have to play like that (most likely better) every week for KC to be a playoff team....the defense is going to give up chunk yardage every week.....I want to be optimistic and think it can maybe be a bend but don't break defense, but just not sure that will be the situation....you could make the case that as well as the offense/special teams played....the Chargers were a couple dropped passes away from winning that game...Mahomes is gonna be fun to watch for the next 15 years, that is for sure....other AFC west teams are gonna have their hands full....

Edited by Stinkin Ref
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Maybe the real Monday night win was the friends we made along the way?

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2 hours ago, BusterTBronco said:

Typical Chiefs.  They look completely unbeatable in the first half of the season then teams figure out how to beat them

It's reid

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Beat the Raiders and they still have HFA throughout....I like their chances against anybody coming into Arrowhead....they will be a tough out....prior to Sea game their 3 losses were by a combined total of 7 points....they will have a chance in every game...Vegas will have them as favorites throughout...

....

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can't lie....kind of worried the Chiefs DST will not be able to get IND off the field....they are firing on all cylinders right now with that run game and Luck is making all the throws....they are really good at converting on third down....would have rather been playing HOU/LAC/ or BAL.....this is a really bad matchup for KC.....

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Media and critics are really high on pointing out:

Chiefs playoff record

Chiefs home playoff record

Chiefs playoff history vs Indy

Andy Reid playoff record

What I haven't seen is anyone talking about Andy Reid coached teams record after the bye.

So the question is: which historical data do you think is most useful in predicting the outcome of this game?

Half of me says it is a huge advantage having Reid coming off the bye with a career record of 17-3 (I think?)

The other half says the most important factor is that Andy Reid has a poor playoff record of 11-13 (1-4 with KC)

The rest is irrelevant IMO.

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