BassNBrew
Footballguy
Someone will drop the rake to a reasonable level. If DK and FD were smart they would be talking merge rather than an arms race to build a huge debt.
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Is it rigged? - Official Thread - (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe T
- Start date
astukas
Footballguy
Every site that has tried to do lower rake has either failed or got bought. The casual player isn't even aware of rake, so the sites can get away with keeping it where it is.
dschuler
Footballguy
Just like Amarillo Slim once told me "if you want to say gambling on the Internet is legitimate, you can call me a woman". There have been many people who have cheated and companies that have been caught cheating in virtually every category of online poker/gaming/sports betting. I dont think they are though because the federal government has basically endorsed this unlike these poker/gaming/betting. They are making the same cut as sport betting without any risks.
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
I think the fear for FD and DK is the entry of some potential "big boys" who already have built-in advertising platforms and money (i.e. Yahoo!) to reach a ton of eyeballs. I don't think FD and DK are really terribly worried about each other as much as they are the rest of the market. Those guys likely won't be holding a combined 90% market share in 2 years if they can't stomp-out these new entries quickly and effectively.
Here's a pretty good detailed look at the overlays and advertising costs for FD, DK, and some others for week 2 of the season. Week 1 numbers can be found in an internal link.
http://www.legalsportsreport.com/4137/draftkings-or-fanduel-week-2-nfl/
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
For those who are curious, here are the current criteria for fantasy sports wagering to be exempted by the UIGEA:
(I) All prizes and awards offered to winning participants are established and made known to the participants in advance of the game or contest and their value is not determined by the number of participants or the amount of any fees paid by those participants.
(II) All winning outcomes reflect the relative knowledge and skill of the participants and are determined predominantly by accumulated statistical results of the performance of individuals (athletes in the case of sports events) in multiple real-world sporting or other events.
(III) No winning outcome is based— (aa) on the score, point-spread, or any performance or performances of any single real-world team or any combination of such teams; or (bb) solely on any single performance of an individual athlete in any single real-world sporting or other event.
(I) All prizes and awards offered to winning participants are established and made known to the participants in advance of the game or contest and their value is not determined by the number of participants or the amount of any fees paid by those participants.
(II) All winning outcomes reflect the relative knowledge and skill of the participants and are determined predominantly by accumulated statistical results of the performance of individuals (athletes in the case of sports events) in multiple real-world sporting or other events.
(III) No winning outcome is based— (aa) on the score, point-spread, or any performance or performances of any single real-world team or any combination of such teams; or (bb) solely on any single performance of an individual athlete in any single real-world sporting or other event.
NixonMask
Footballguy
So youre saying betting on the LeBron James Cavaliers is illegal under current US law?
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
Everywhere except Nevada.NixonMask said:
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
Actually both are illegal. Betting on 2 or more separate players in combination is legal.
People get hung-up on the "skill" vs. "luck" thing too much when debating the issue. That's not actually the distinction. That's how the guys who want sports books legalized spin the argument.
dschuler
Footballguy
So I can legally bet on Lebron and Kevin Love but I can't bet on the whole team?
Correct. It doesn't matter how much skill sports betting takes. It's still illegal because of the statute that says, in effect, "sports betting over the innernets is illegal, period" (subject to the other statute that says "except for fantasy sports").
A lot of states make a stupid, arbitrary distinction between luck and skill, but under federal law it's mostly a non-issue.
NixonMask
Footballguy
Its a joke, anyone watching last years finals knows that the Cavaliers are LeBron and half a dozen jamokes. Putting any of them into a lineup is a clear violation of the single athlete/performance of a team clause.
Guess its not funny if I have to explain it though, ....
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
I decided to not play DFF this year as I think the large syndicates, large bank rolls, take-out, the use of scripts, and other software that spots "weak players" is indeed unfair. DFF is simply no fun to me anymore due to these reasons. I am much happier playing in my season long leagues where more skill (and of course, luck) prevails. It is more exciting to me managing a season long team than trying to figure out who the next Travis Benjamin will be or who will own him 2% or whatever. Good luck to those who wish to be nickel and dimed with DFF.
I understand your feelings and for you not playing DFF makes perfect sense. For me I enjoy both year long and daily the difference though is making money is more important in DFF for me. In my 2 dynasty leagues I've made money over the time I've been in the leagues but it really has nothing to do with why I play its just a bonus. DFF on the other hand the money is a big reason I play and if I didn't at least break even over the course of the year I would quit quickly. If the things you mention, which I don't begin to play with enough money to use, were to keep me from making any money I would leave. Or if I becomes a grind were I was working hard to make a few bucks with no enjoyment from it then I would quit like you did. Hopefully that doesn't happen. For now I enjoy it and my year long leagues. What I don't enjoy anymore is redraft leagues. I do a couple MFL 10's just to draft but haven't done a redraft league in at least 5 years.
Well reasoned, Jandyt. I suppose it boils down to playing with your strengths, playing the game that you enjoy, and concentrating on what turns a profit. My first year (two years ago) I did turn a profit on FD but it was draining to manage one redraft league (my favorite!) and find the time necessary to craft competitive DFF teams. Then last year I noticed that nearly EVERY game I wanted to play some guy with a zillion wins was entered in EVERY game, from 10 player games to 20 player games. Then I also noticed the same player entering multitude of entries in the large tourneys. I did not get the same feel two years ago when I first started playing DFF. A small time guy like me has not chance against such a player. So forget that for me. I am much happier this season free from the DFF grind! I wish you the best this DFF season and hope you turn a profit!
"Is it rigged?" is a completely different topic than the "news" that broke about DFS employees using inside info to play other sites imo. COMPLETELY
Wadsworth
Footballguy
Is it rigged? I hope not, but that is not the important questions. Are you making money?
For years I played online poker and people debated if it was rigged, Eventually some cheating was discovered and a lot of people celebrated that they stayed away from that cheating game. Meanwhile I profited 6 figures in online poker. I hate that there was cheating, but in reality, I do not care much because it paid for a good chuck of my house.
Let the other people worry about the drama, focus on making money. If you are making cash do you really care if other people are cheating? If you are not making cash stop playing or get better.
For years I played online poker and people debated if it was rigged, Eventually some cheating was discovered and a lot of people celebrated that they stayed away from that cheating game. Meanwhile I profited 6 figures in online poker. I hate that there was cheating, but in reality, I do not care much because it paid for a good chuck of my house.
Let the other people worry about the drama, focus on making money. If you are making cash do you really care if other people are cheating? If you are not making cash stop playing or get better.
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
Well it's not NOT rigged
Joe T
Footballguy
Joe T
Footballguy
*That we know of.
A small number of people are alleged to be cheating the system that we know of.
Here is what we do know. There are millions (billions?) of dollars at play in an unregulated industry with zero audit trail and zero accountability. So far the alleged transgressions include:
1. Lineups changing after the start of games
2. Multiple entries by a single user in a single entry contest
3. DFS employees potentially using information that that provides a competitive advantage
Those are all the ones we know at this time. But do you really think that is it? Do you really think no one else is cheating given all the money involved?
There is zero accountability at these sites, but you believe with all of this money in play that everything is on the up and up. Seriously, do not be so naïve.
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Wadsworth
Footballguy
1 and 2 are non-issues. 1 has been repeatedly debunked. 2 is a tech glitch that should have been corrected but is clearly not a method of cheating just a small loophole some people have exploited.
3 on the other hand is a work in progress, we shall see. But keep in mind that Ethan is an excellent player and he is capable of having great success without cheating.
TSquaredUA
Footballguy
Sounds like someone is butt hurt that they've lost money and now are trying to find someone else to blame. Maybe you should just make better lineups. I have $10K locked and loaded on FD and DK for week 5. People that are withdrawing their funds are misinformed on the minor mistake that was made by a DK employee.
bagger
Footballguy
i vividly remember arguing against Joe b during the poker craze that there was no way that the online poker site would be rigged as they made way too much money via the rake to cheat or do something dumb.Guess what, it was rigged.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
It is definitely rigged... to give Draftkings 10% of every payout. 
Doesn't that rake seem a little high? What are they doing besides running bazillion of ####ty TV ads that costs so much in overhead? Profit margins must be insane.
To answer my own question, I bet lawsuits become a pretty significant operational cost if they aren't already...
Doesn't that rake seem a little high? What are they doing besides running bazillion of ####ty TV ads that costs so much in overhead? Profit margins must be insane.
To answer my own question, I bet lawsuits become a pretty significant operational cost if they aren't already...
chet
Footballguy
I highly doubt FD & DK employees are highly compensated thus increasing the likelihood of cheating.
Joe T
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
LOL
1 shouldn't repeatedly be happening.
2 they need to take games down until their software is fixed.
3 is just laughable
Wadsworth
Footballguy
1. There is no evidence that it ever happened, much less repeatedly. There was a caching issue where the site was loading previous line ups that were changed before roster lock.
2. I agree. I have no idea why FD has not make this a priority. But it is a bug, not a cheat.
3. We will see. I am certainly concerned and want answers. At the least there is evidence of poor managerial controls. I am reserving judgement on the rest until more information comes available.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
As a side note DraftKings posted a job several months ago that I am qualified for and would normally be interested in pursuing. I decide to not to submit an application because I assumed I would have to stop playing daily fantasy if I worked for DK. I was actually surprised when I learned later I could taken the job and just played on other sites. Hopefully, if nothing else this a wake up call to the industry that they need much stricter control of access and accountability.
Seekay
Footballguy
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
update: probs rigged
James Daulton
Footballguy
Great call bro!Maybe it is just my lack of success from the first couple of weeks, but I'm starting to get the feeling that the large tournaments are either rigged or just not winnable. I cannot decide which.
I thought it would be good to start a thread to see if anyone else has similar suspicions.
If I look at the current leader in the Sunday million, the username has zero contest wins on FanDuel. He / she / it has never won a game of any kind. So is it just luck that this person who has never won any game at FanDuel lucks into a perfect lineup this weekend? It is difficult to believe, but not impossible. The problem I have is this is not the only case.
I entered a bunch of tournaments this weekend. I can find at least 7 or 8 large tournaments where the winner has zero or one total win. Is it just beginners luck? Does that mean no skill is involved? Or is there reason to be suspicious of these accounts?
I'm looking at the leading roster for the 100k Sunday NFL squib. The username has one total win on FanDuel, yet he rostered Travis Benjamin of Cleveland who happened to go off for 31 points today. I'm starting to think listening to podcasts and reading on DFS is a waste of time each week because I spent a lot of time this week and never heard Travis Benjamin's name mentioned once. Yet a guy with one total win decides to roster him and an almost perfect lineup.
In fact, the top 5 leaders in the 100k Sunday NFL squib have 1 win, zero wins, zero wins, zero wins, and zero wins.
I can find multiple instances of this happening.
Maybe it is luck. Maybe it is rigged. Maybe it is just not winnable. I can't decide.
