What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Why does America suck at rugby? (1 Viewer)

Zigg

Footballguy
I am currently watching South Africa destroy the US 57-0 at the Rugby World Cup. NFL players are constantly referred to as some of the best athletes in the world. Why can't some failed NFLers turn to rugby, make very good money and have a nice career? Every Soccer World Cup I read about how the US would dominate if they wanted, if they weren't busy playing football or basketball. Would the US dominate rugby if they wanted? Would they dominate if fringe NFL players turned to rugby?

Game just finished 64-0.

 
The only sports the world could consistently compete with the US in if the US devoted it's entire resources to would be tennis and golf and that's primarily because they're based on precision just as much as athleticism.

If the US wanted to dominate hockey, it could. Considering half the country has never seen an ice rink, I doubt it'll ever happen but it could. Football, baseball, and basketball are obvious. Anything else with our facilities and demographics could be dominated here as well, but we don't watch/don't care.

You should go to the rugby guys.com forum and ask why South Africa doesn't dominate football.

 
bigmarc27 said:
The only sports the world could consistently compete with the US in if the US devoted it's entire resources to would be tennis and golf and that's primarily because they're based on precision just as much as athleticism.

If the US wanted to dominate hockey, it could. Considering half the country has never seen an ice rink, I doubt it'll ever happen but it could. Football, baseball, and basketball are obvious. Anything else with our facilities and demographics could be dominated here as well, but we don't watch/don't care.

You should go to the rugby guys.com forum and ask why South Africa doesn't dominate football.
I think you're grossly underestimating Canada and Russia (and maybe a lot of Northern Europe) here - No reason why those two, if also dedicating their entire resources to the sport, couldn't beat the US.

I'd argue that the reason we couldn't dominate Tennis and Golf is because those are individual sports...It's a lot harder to "dominate" when all you need is 1 super-star than it is when you need a team of them. You may see a Tennis champ from some tiny country because that one person was good...you're far less likely to see a basketball team from some tiny country be dominant b/c you'd need a bunch of folks to defy the odds.

 
bigmarc27 said:
The only sports the world could consistently compete with the US in if the US devoted it's entire resources to would be tennis and golf and that's primarily because they're based on precision just as much as athleticism.If the US wanted to dominate hockey, it could. Considering half the country has never seen an ice rink, I doubt it'll ever happen but it could. Football, baseball, and basketball are obvious. Anything else with our facilities and demographics could be dominated here as well, but we don't watch/don't care.

You should go to the rugby guys.com forum and ask why South Africa doesn't dominate football.
I think you're grossly underestimating Canada and Russia (and maybe a lot of Northern Europe) here - No reason why those two, if also dedicating their entire resources to the sport, couldn't beat the US.

I'd argue that the reason we couldn't dominate Tennis and Golf is because those are individual sports...It's a lot harder to "dominate" when all you need is 1 super-star than it is when you need a team of them. You may see a Tennis champ from some tiny country because that one person was good...you're far less likely to see a basketball team from some tiny country be dominant b/c you'd need a bunch of folks to defy the odds.
On the hockey thing, maybe but we're moderately competitive now and literally 3/4 of the population doesn't even consider playing hockey. I live in Atlanta, I'm not aware of a single ice rink in the entire state except where the Gwinnett Gladiators play. It's not even an option and I'd venture to guess its the same everywhere south of Ohio. It basically guts a huge portion of our population. Also a large portion of athletes never consider hockey. By that I mean, hockey teams are full of scrappy, hard working guys, that skate good routes errr I mean plays. The athletic freaks that play in the NBA and NFL don't don't care about hockey at all.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
bigmarc27 said:
The only sports the world could consistently compete with the US in if the US devoted it's entire resources to would be tennis and golf and that's primarily because they're based on precision just as much as athleticism.If the US wanted to dominate hockey, it could. Considering half the country has never seen an ice rink, I doubt it'll ever happen but it could. Football, baseball, and basketball are obvious. Anything else with our facilities and demographics could be dominated here as well, but we don't watch/don't care.

You should go to the rugby guys.com forum and ask why South Africa doesn't dominate football.
I think you're grossly underestimating Canada and Russia (and maybe a lot of Northern Europe) here - No reason why those two, if also dedicating their entire resources to the sport, couldn't beat the US.

I'd argue that the reason we couldn't dominate Tennis and Golf is because those are individual sports...It's a lot harder to "dominate" when all you need is 1 super-star than it is when you need a team of them. You may see a Tennis champ from some tiny country because that one person was good...you're far less likely to see a basketball team from some tiny country be dominant b/c you'd need a bunch of folks to defy the odds.
On the hockey thing, maybe but we're moderately competitive now and literally 3/4 of the population doesn't even consider playing hockey. I live in Atlanta, I'm not aware of a single ice rink in the entire state except where the Gwinnett Gladiators play. It's not even an option and I'd venture to guess its the same everywhere south of Ohio. It basically guts a huge portion of our population.Also a large portion of athletes never consider hockey. By that I mean, hockey teams are full of scrappy, hard working guys, that skate good routes errr I mean plays. The athletic freaks that play in the NBA and NFL don't don't care about hockey at all.
First, LOL @ "skate good routes"

I get what you're saying, and I agree for a lot of sports. The OP topic of Rugby for example, is basically football. The athletic freaks in the NFL could dominate football if that's where the money and fame was. If that was the US's sport. The skills there are running, jumping, tackling, etc. I guess I just feel like hockey has a unique skill-set. I don't see, say, a freak like Adrian Peterson translating to skates, even if he skated all his life. Further, Zedeno Chara aside, really tall , big guys aren't automatically an asset in hockey. There are sports that are built for different sized guys. Being the biggest and strongest doesn't always translate.

I don't think the US necessarily is dominant in strategy or thinking. We've got some freakishly big, freakishly strong, freakishly fast (on their feet on solid ground) guys, but I guess for sports where those attributes aren't the most important, our strategy, thinking, and coordination are probably just on-par with others.

Also, if it were just a population/numbers game, China would flat out win everything.

 
Also a large portion of athletes never consider hockey. By that I mean, hockey teams are full of scrappy, hard working guys, that skate good routes errr I mean plays. The athletic freaks that play in the NBA and NFL don't don't care about hockey at all.
Thank God there's still a sport for middle-sized white boys.

 
The amazon prime series that goes behind the scenes of the All Blacks is pretty decent. 

But the premise of this overall thread is right. Tim Tebow would be ridiculous on a rugby field/pitch/whatever they call it. Same goes for a lot of guys who were good HS basketball or football players that didnt ultimately have the proper skills in those sports to go to a big time school or play professionally. 

 
The amazon prime series that goes behind the scenes of the All Blacks is pretty decent. 

But the premise of this overall thread is right. Tim Tebow would be ridiculous on a rugby field/pitch/whatever they call it. Same goes for a lot of guys who were good HS basketball or football players that didnt ultimately have the proper skills in those sports to go to a big time school or play professionally. 
Definitely agree Tebow would be ridiculous trying to play rugby. Football / basketball skill sets would not transition well to rugby.

 
Lived in Australia for a bit (15 years ago).  I found that as a percentage, they are a lot more athletic and in shape than Americans.  I can't see that trend improving in the 15 years since.

 
How exactly would football skills not translate to rugby? I don't know a lot about rugby, but it seems like the skillset would be pretty similar.
I think the main thing is football players train to run hard in 3-4 second bursts of huge exertion, for the most part separated by 20-30 seconds of recovery. Rugby is a constantly moving game, like soccer. 40 minutes halves with very little down time. I don’t think many football players can run like that, especially the big boys. Also, most everyone on a rugby field has to be able to tackle and handle the ball, constantly transitioning between offense and defense like in soccer or basketball. Ideally, at least half the players on a rugby team (15) can competently punt the ball from open play. Football players are more specialized. Very few players handle the ball, and most can’t tackle.  Obviously all top athletes in their own right, but not transferable skills. 

 
There is something in the American character that just simply won’t support rugby. We could shut down all other sports and funnel all our best athletes into rugby and we would still be perennial losers. It would be like trying to make the Finnish into jai alai stars or make darts the national sport of Morocco. It’s just not possible. 

 
There is something in the American character that just simply won’t support rugby. We could shut down all other sports and funnel all our best athletes into rugby and we would still be perennial losers. It would be like trying to make the Finnish into jai alai stars or make darts the national sport of Morocco. It’s just not possible. 
I doubt that very sincerely. If there were no other sports we would put out a team of Ray Lewises and Ronnie Lotts.  220-250 pounders who run laughing through brick walls at 4.4. We would positively crush the rest of the world.

We don't because there's no money in it.

 
If at 8 yeas old we had been playing rugby the USA would totally rule the sport.  As kids all us yanks are playing football, then here comes school and more football, football football is why the USA doesn't rule rugby.

Herschel Walker runs a 10.23 100m at 225 pounds (Deion Sanders 10.26)

Bo Jackson a 10.33 at 225 pounds

Marcus Dupree ran a 9.5 yard in HS at 230.

No country rivals the USA for big fast athletes.

D.J. Metcalf (NFL combine) just ran a 4.33 40 at 228 pounds, another guy ran a 4.41 at 260 pounds.

Imagine this playing rugby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIzz5Asr998

Then there;s...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stWvgvF1YcQ

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Is it racist to say African Americans are the best athletes in the world? 
It's more....those with roots to western Africa possess unique physical advantages when it comes to sports that require speed, quicks and size with speed.

We can't ignore the Caribbean, African Canadians, African Europeans.

That big and fast is pretty much a western African thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nbjhpcZ9_g

But before him......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHkvb2v8sn0

Both with western African roots.

Straight out of Nigeria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPNL8DS-b_Y

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I know Lo quite well. 

A few years after Lo'z playing days were done (and decades after his wrestling career), he would ask to weight train with me at my gym to regain strength he had lost.  In the MMA and wrestling circles they would occasionally ask to grapple/hand train with with me to get practice on someone with a ton of strength.  But Lo' wanted to wrestle like the other guys a little bit and asked if I would. So I obliged... what a ####### mistake!  He is an absolute bull made of solid titanium.   I'm coming in at 6' 240# and lifting/training every day for years at the time.  His initial charge/hit/shoot would rattle my entire body to the core. Nobody came close. Not a soul. I quit obliging him after only 2 sessions.
 
Then you know he's out of Lemoore HS and his dad is a pastor in town. I worked with his uncle Willie Neal. I have met Lorenzo at a HS game but don't really know him.

Watched him run over USC in a bowl game while at Fresno State.

Tommie Smith in that second video was also out of Lemoore HS.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Then you know he's out of Lemoore HS and his dad is a pastor in town. I worked with his uncle Willie Neal. I have met Lorenzo at a HS game but don't really know him.

Tommie Smith in that second video was also out of Lemore HS.
Yes sir, last time I really talked with him was right after his collegiate wrestling teammate Gary Quintana had died.  He was from down the road from Lemoore in Selma.   Gary was not only a friend but one of our online gaming circle group members for 20 years.

 
Yes sir, last time I really talked with him was right after his collegiate wrestling teammate Gary Quintana had died.  He was from down the road from Lemoore in Selma.   Gary was not only a friend but one of our online gaming circle group members for 20 years.
I saw Neal wrestle a sumo wrestler***, yep....tossed him.  Yes, he wasn't one of the big names in that sport.

I have heard of Quintana, I grew up and lived in Visalia.

***NFL over in Japan for a game.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I doubt that very sincerely. If there were no other sports we would put out a team of Ray Lewises and Ronnie Lotts.  220-250 pounders who run laughing through brick walls at 4.4. We would positively crush the rest of the world.

We don't because there's no money in it.
I was most definitely being totally serious. 

 
I watched part of a game last week.  One team was 3 yards from whatever Rugby calls the end zone.  They ran 10 times into the pile and got no where.  Eventually they fumbled. How many "downs" does a rugby team get to do something?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Out of curiosity, what countries qualify as 'Tier 1'? I think I have my guesses about some but I'd like to learn here.... thanks.


here are the world rankings.  I am not knowledgeable enough to know where the break points are for tiers

https://www.world.rugby/rankings/mru?lang=en
You can see the US is currently ranked 15th in the world, but we would not have a chance in hell against any of the top 7 or so in a meaningful competition.

The US has qualified and will play in the Rugby World Cup later this year, the big international tournament that is held ever 4 years.  There are 20 teams in the world cup.

As in soccer, its a mistake to think the international competitions are the best rugby.  I love the world cup and the 6 Nations tournaments, but the best rugby is played by the best professional clubs.  Right now, the best clubs in the world are probably Leinster and Munster (Ireland), Toulouse (France), Exeter and Saracens (England).

The Heineken Cup is the Rugby equivalent of the UEFA Champions League in soccer. It is an annual tournament featuring the 20 best clubs in Europe, qualifying from the domestic leagues in England, France, Italy, Ireland and a few others. Leinster won it last year, Saracens the year before that.  The best professional league in the world top to bottom is probably the English Premiership, although I'm sure there is a reasonable argument for other leagues.

 
I watched part of a game last week.  One team was 3 yards from whatever Rugby calls the end zone.  They ran 10 times into the pile and got no where.  Eventually they fumbled. How many "downs" does a rugby team get to do something?
There is no such thing as a "down" in rugby union, the best version of the game.  I think they have something similar to the concept of downs in Rugby League.

 
I watched part of a game last week.  One team was 3 yards from whatever Rugby calls the end zone.  They ran 10 times into the pile and got no where.  Eventually they fumbled. How many "downs" does a rugby team get to do something?
There aren't downs, it's as long as you keep possession of the ball.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top