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Mike Tomlin...is it time to go?

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As a Steelers fan, I came to realize a long time ago that they can't win the Super Bowl every year.

Tomlin is fine... maybe "just missing the playoffs" for 2015... be right there challenging again in 2016.

This thread is basically dredging for problems in the wrong place.

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8 minutes ago, BusterTBronco said:

He's great.

Yeah very good call there...u kick it deep and they have to stop them on downs or the game is over. You onside it and give your team a chance to get the ball or still have to stop them on downs. It's not his fault his kicker couldn't put the ball 10 yards to give them an actual chance at recovering

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15 minutes ago, BusterTBronco said:

He's great.

For Jax he is.  Should have kicked away.  The FG sealed it.

Edited by JohnnyU

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He's consistently outcoached. He would have lost next week, probably telling his DC to put pout the same D they put out last year against Brady. I like his attitude of putting up points but he's lacking in the fundamentals.

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14 minutes ago, Bfrahm3 said:

Yeah very good call there...u kick it deep and they have to stop them on downs or the game is over. You onside it and give your team a chance to get the ball or still have to stop them on downs. It's not his fault his kicker couldn't put the ball 10 yards to give them an actual chance at recovering

Not that the Jags playcalls would have been identical, but the onside led directly to a Jax FG to make it a two-score game.  If they get that same stop after a deep kick, it's only a 7-point game and the final TD ties it.

I'd say the onside kick decision contributed directly to the loss.

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Just now, Arodin said:

Not that the Jags playcalls would have been identical, but the onside led directly to a Jax FG to make it a two-score game.  If they get that same stop after a deep kick, it's only a 7-point game and the final TD ties it.

I'd say the onside kick decision contributed directly to the loss.

It lead to a FG because Boswell didn't put it 10 yards, if he puts it 10 yards then there is no 5 yard penalty and if the steelers still stop them that FG is a 55 yarder or so and jags woulda punted it away

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Either way if the jags got the ball the steelers needed to stop them on downs...kicking the onside kick gave them another chance other then stopping them on downs to get the ball back, very good call by tomlin, terrible kick by boswell

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Just now, Bfrahm3 said:

It lead to a FG because Boswell didn't put it 10 yards, if he puts it 10 yards then there is no 5 yard penalty and if the steelers still stop them that FG is a 55 yarder or so and jags woulda punted it away

That's a lot of what ifs.  Just kick away and stop them.  They had plenty of time to do that.   Less risk of putting them in fg range, and if you don't stop them you don't deserve to win.

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It's the same amount of ifs then stopping them on downs by kicking it deep

Edited by Bfrahm3
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I'll be shocked if he goes, but today is all on Tomlin.  The defense is his forte and they got torched by an offense QB'd by Blake Bortles.  You completely wasted a tremendous performance by your three studs on offense.  I am Ben Roethlisberger, why would I come back to that team if Tomlin stays?  It is obvious he cannot get this team over the hump. 

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7 minutes ago, Bfrahm3 said:

It's the same amount of ifs then stopping them on downs.

Less risk of giving them a game sealing FG to kick away and stop them.  They had the time to do that.  A failed onside kick, even if it had gone 10 yards, still puts the Jaguars in easier to reach FG range.  If they kick away and 3 and out the Jags, they are only down one score and have a shot.  It was a bad call.

Edited by JohnnyU

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4 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

I'll be shocked if he goes, but today is all on Tomlin.  The defense is his forte and they got torched by an offense QB'd by Blake Bortles.  You completely wasted a tremendous performance by your three studs on offense.  I am Ben Roethlisberger, why would I come back to that team if Tomlin stays?  It is obvious he cannot get this team over the hump. 

Ben does not like Haley at all.  I wonder if Ben issues an ultimatum- either Haley goes or I go.

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9 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Less risk of giving them a game sealing FG to kick away and stop them.  They had the time to do that.  A failed onside kick, even if it had gone 10 yards, still puts the Jaguars in easier to reach FG range.  If they kick away and 3 and out the Jags, they are only down one score and have a shot.  It was a bad call.

What happens if they kick it deep and don't 3 and out the jags? 

What happens if they kick the onside kick and recover it? 

They needed to get the ball back, by onsiding it it gives you an extra chance of getting the ball back. If the ball goes the 10 yards it needed to and the jags run the same plays they did and the steelers stop them like they did then it would have been a 55 yard FG try and the jags probably punt it away and put the game on their defense...any good coach with a defense that was playing bad and couldn't stop the run game would have called it the same.

 

the one questionable call woulda been they needed 2 scores, why not kick the FG after Bryant got tackled at the 5 and then go for the onside again, that I will tomlin flack for

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2 minutes ago, Bfrahm3 said:

What happens if they kick it deep and don't 3 and out the jags? 

What happens if they kick the onside kick and recover it? 

They needed to get the ball back, by onsiding it it gives you an extra chance of getting the ball back. If the ball goes the 10 yards it needed to and the jags run the same plays they did and the steelers stop them like they did then it would have been a 55 yard FG try and the jags probably punt it away and put the game on their defense...any good coach with a defense that was playing bad and couldn't stop the run game would have called it the same.

 

the one questionable call woulda been they needed 2 scores, why not kick the FG after Bryant got tackled at the 5 and then go for the onside again, that I will tomlin flack for

Percentages.  One thing they couldn't do is give up that FG.

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5 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Percentages.  One thing they couldn't do is give up that FG.

I agree, if the onside kick was better and they stop them on downs then the jags don't kick a FG. 

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20 minutes ago, Bfrahm3 said:

I agree, if the onside kick was better and they stop them on downs then the jags don't kick a FG. 

I say we're beating a dead horse.   I'm not going to change your mind, so I'll end it right here I suppose.

Edited by JohnnyU

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He also messed up once they were down 10. Should have kicked a FG as soon as they were in range and then hope to get the onside kick right. Made no sense to waste all the clock away to score a TD.

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1 minute ago, JuniorGong said:

He also messed up once they were down 10. Should have kicked a FG as soon as they were in range and then hope to get the onside kick right. Made no sense to waste all the clock away to score a TD.

I feel like coaches do this probably close to 90% of the time for some reason.

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16 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Firing Tomlin is crazy talk. Wouldn’t care if either Haley or Butler were replaced 

Why? I know the rooneys are loyal n patient. But this team is undera achieving. And today was an embarassment

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11 minutes ago, JuniorGong said:

He also messed up once they were down 10. Should have kicked a FG as soon as they were in range and then hope to get the onside kick right. Made no sense to waste all the clock away to score a TD.

No one ever does this for some reason.

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3 hours ago, Bfrahm3 said:

Either way if the jags got the ball the steelers needed to stop them on downs...kicking the onside kick gave them another chance other then stopping them on downs to get the ball back, very good call by tomlin, terrible kick by boswell

Call me crazy, but perhaps the coach should have factored in the possibility of a botched onside attempt.  Those happen routinely.

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5 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Call me crazy, but perhaps the coach should have factored in the possibility of a botched onside attempt.  Those happen routinely.

And I put that pathetic attempt at an onside kick partially on the coaches as well. How could the team be so bad at a play that you'd think they'd practice a lot? I didn't notice, maybe Boswell slipped or something, but it's not unreasonable to chalk up the poor execution to the coaching staff and their preparation. Looked like the special teams coach was gesticulating wildly before the snap so I'm not even sure they were prepared in the moment (not atypical for Tomlin and his staff).

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3 hours ago, lod001 said:

No one ever does this for some reason.

The reason is pretty apparent. You need 2 scores, one being a td and the other being a fg. You need 5 yards for the td. Then you have to onsides kick and recover let's say at midfield you have to go 12-15 yards to have a shot at a fg. Total yards needed 17-20 for the 2 scores. If you kick a fg from the 5 you then have to get an onsides kick back as well. Using the 50 as the recovery point you then have to go 50 yards for a td. 55 total yards needed.

Once you're down to a few seconds left then I could see kicking the fg since you can throw a Hail Mary from the 50 into the end zone but you can't kick a fg from the 50. Otherwise in that situation I don't see how attempting the td is foolish. I've seen plenty of times coaches attempting a fg in the situation when the ball is at the 30 or so. But it doesn't make sense from the 5.

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Tomlin was badly outcoached today..it happens...his defense made Bortles look like a serviceable , half-decent QB today...they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down...sooo tired of hearing about the 'killer Bees' at some point,when you get a catchy name you have to produce in terms of wins/titles/championships..the Fab Five were great, but they won nothing. At some point you have to win big games with THAT cast of stars..even the O-line has star players..didn't they have 8 pro bowl players this year? how can they lose this game, at home,against Bortles?

yes he should be fired. it's time to move on.just like the Chiefs ought to fire Reid, another coach who just can't get over the hump...

on the other side of the field, give credit to the Jags OC who didn't go into conservative mode , he went balls to the wall time and again and that pass to the FB late in the 4th Q was huge..most OCs would've coached for the FG there..time and again, Jags offense answered the call, late in the game, on the road, in cold a** weather..good for them great win for the Jags and a poorly coached Steelers team...

Tomlin is a decent coach but I wonder if it's really just a matter of a great front office good at drafting and picking studs and giving him the tools to win.and for the longest time now, he hasn't won anything..

time to go 

 

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If I am a Steelers fan, how happy am I with a head coach who in the last 7 years, has only 3 playoff wins (2 of which were against backup QB's), and has lost playoff games to both Tim Tebow and Blake Bortles.  

At some point, you have to move on.  Yes, his regular season winning percentage is really good, but how can it not be with the team he inherited (which inflated it early on) and then having the best RB and WR the last few years (along with the HOF QB he inherited)? The Steelers have high standards, and Tomlin's teams are simply not meeting those standards.  Will he be held accountable? 

Edited by Ghost Rider
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9 hours ago, Cobbler1 said:

The reason is pretty apparent. You need 2 scores, one being a td and the other being a fg. You need 5 yards for the td. Then you have to onsides kick and recover let's say at midfield you have to go 12-15 yards to have a shot at a fg. Total yards needed 17-20 for the 2 scores. If you kick a fg from the 5 you then have to get an onsides kick back as well. Using the 50 as the recovery point you then have to go 50 yards for a td. 55 total yards needed.

Once you're down to a few seconds left then I could see kicking the fg since you can throw a Hail Mary from the 50 into the end zone but you can't kick a fg from the 50. Otherwise in that situation I don't see how attempting the td is foolish. I've seen plenty of times coaches attempting a fg in the situation when the ball is at the 30 or so. But it doesn't make sense from the 5.

They scored with 1 second left, basically giving the game to Jacksonville. It was a bad coaching move, there is no debate.

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If Steelers kick it deep and the Jags get 2 first downs to burn the clock, is Tomlin still getting killed in the media today?

"Jags had 42 points, defense couldn't stop them all day, why give them the ball back?"

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23 minutes ago, JuniorGong said:

They scored with 1 second left, basically giving the game to Jacksonville. It was a bad coaching move, there is no debate.

You're using results oriented thinking on a 1 game sample size, which is quite frankly extremely stupid and on that there can be no debate. They could have just as easily scored the td with 40 seconds left or 30 or 20 and only had to move the ball 15 yards post onsides kick to kick the fg rather than move the ball 50 yards for a td.

 

If in poker I'm dealt a 2 and 9 unsuited and decide to go all in then flop a 2 and a pair of 9s and win the hand was it a good move? No of course not it was dumb and I got lucky that it worked out and in the future it will continue to be dumb. 

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29 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

You're using results oriented thinking on a 1 game sample size, which is quite frankly extremely stupid and on that there can be no debate. They could have just as easily scored the td with 40 seconds left or 30 or 20 and only had to move the ball 15 yards post onsides kick to kick the fg rather than move the ball 50 yards for a td.

 

If in poker I'm dealt a 2 and 9 unsuited and decide to go all in then flop a 2 and a pair of 9s and win the hand was it a good move? No of course not it was dumb and I got lucky that it worked out and in the future it will continue to be dumb. 

I didn’t argue for them to kick the FG on 1st down with 47 seconds left but you have to do it on 2nd down from the 15 with 23 seconds left.

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16 minutes ago, JuniorGong said:

I didn’t argue for them to kick the FG on 1st down with 47 seconds left but you have to do it on 2nd down from the 15 with 23 seconds left.

No you didn't. In your first post on the subject you said that Tomlin also made a mistake by wasting all that time trying to score a td when he should have kicked a fg as soon as they were in range. Which would have been the first and goal play from the 5 after the 42 yard completion. You followed that up by quoting my explanation which clearly was talking about the scenario when they were on the 5. 

 

Kicking on second down from the 15 is more debatable but the percentages are still probably on the side of throwing to the end zone until there's 10 seconds or so left. But I wouldn't fault a coach for kicking the fg there. What you absolutely can't do is throw the ball short of the end zone and inbounds which they did and ultimately ended their extremely slim chances.

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10 hours ago, menobrown said:

No

Agreed. There is such a grass is greener mentality sometimes, especially of consistently successful teams(see Packers thread) that anything they could get would be better than what they have. Its silly. Tomlin is unquestionably a top-10 NFL Head Coach. There is no upgrade available, without taking a gigantic risk that has, at best, a 20% chance of panning out.

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1 hour ago, JaxBill said:

If Steelers kick it deep and the Jags get 2 first downs to burn the clock, is Tomlin still getting killed in the media today?

"Jags had 42 points, defense couldn't stop them all day, why give them the ball back?"

I would've kicked away.

Hope for a fumble and/or stop.

Especially if I knew that my team sucks @ onside kicks.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JaxBill said:

If Steelers kick it deep and the Jags get 2 first downs to burn the clock, is Tomlin still getting killed in the media today?

"Jags had 42 points, defense couldn't stop them all day, why give them the ball back?"

Of course he would get criticism in that case.  Most people are results oriented. 

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I've been wanting him gone for a few years now.  Seems like a decent enough guy, but not a very good coach.  Strikes me as more wanting to be buddy buddy with his players rather than being a disciplinarian.  He routinely gets out-coached in big games and is horrible at making in-game adjustments.  Yesterday was just a microcosm of him as a coach.  With a likely HOF QB and Bell and Brown, it's ridiculous that they have never won a SB or even got to one with the 3 of them on offense (Bell wasn't around and AB wasn't AB yet when they played GB)

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4 hours ago, Sitch said:

I've been wanting him gone for a few years now.  Seems like a decent enough guy, but not a very good coach.  Strikes me as more wanting to be buddy buddy with his players rather than being a disciplinarian.  He routinely gets out-coached in big games and is horrible at making in-game adjustments.  Yesterday was just a microcosm of him as a coach.  With a likely HOF QB and Bell and Brown, it's ridiculous that they have never won a SB or even got to one with the 3 of them on offense (Bell wasn't around and AB wasn't AB yet when they played GB)

11 seasons:  Never had a losing season, won division 6 titles, made playoffs 8 seasons, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB trophy.  Averages 10+ wins per season.

In understand your disappointment, I really do, but not a good coach?   Come on...

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4 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

11 seasons:  Never had a losing season, won division 6 titles, made playoffs 8 seasons, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB trophy.  Averages 10+ wins per season.

In understand your disappointment, I really do, but not a good coach?   Come on...

Should have more titles. Getting out coached by marone twice and belicheck everytime

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