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Mike Tomlin...is it time to go?

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Just now, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Should have more titles. Getting out coached by marone twice and belicheck everytime

Yeah the players had nothing to do with it.

But okay Tomlin stinks,  who is your replacement?

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5 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

If you want to fire Tomin you better have a damn good replacement.   

Agreed.  There are a LOT of bad coaches.  I question Tomlin's ability to make in-game adjustments and even clock management but that's probably an issue for 90% of the head coaches.  What Tomlin does a great job of is winning  :shrug:    His players seem to love him and he seems to be a good motivator.  He doesn't make too many boneheaded decisions.  

Will he ever win a SuperBowl for Pittsburgh?  Well, yes he actually has won one (maybe an inherited team but still counts) and has taken the team to another.  He gets the team to the playoffs just about every year.  Considering the team is drafting near the bottom every year, that's pretty impressive.  Now I know a lot of that is due to having a franchise QB but it still speaks volumes to his success.  

Edited by fred_1_15301

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5 hours ago, Steeler said:

Of course he would get criticism in that case.  Most people are results oriented. 

I don't think he would because most people recognize that the correct decision in that situation was to kick it deep (regardless of how bad the defense was playing).  

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20 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

11 seasons:  Never had a losing season, won division 6 titles, made playoffs 8 seasons, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB trophy.  Averages 10+ wins per season.

In understand your disappointment, I really do, but not a good coach?   Come on...

George Seifert.

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1 minute ago, GROOT said:

Tomlin is the Barry Switzer of the Steelers. All talent, poor coaching.

I am still waiting for who you want to replace him.

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4 minutes ago, GROOT said:

Tomlin is the Barry Switzer of the Steelers. All talent, poor coaching.

That defense out there yesterday was not that talented.  I don’t think people understand how important the loss of Shazier really was.  He hid a lot of flaws in that defense.  The defensive front was good but the linebackers and entire secondary was mediocre to bad.  Spence (Shazier’s replacement) is like going from filet mignon to a McDonalds cheeseburger.  Not good.

Edited by fred_1_15301

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16 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

If I am a Steelers fan, how happy am I with a head coach who in the last 7 years, has only 3 playoff wins (2 of which were against backup QB's), and has lost playoff games to both Tim Tebow and Blake Bortles.  

At some point, you have to move on.  Yes, his regular season winning percentage is really good, but how can it not be with the team he inherited (which inflated it early on) and then having the best RB and WR the last few years (along with the HOF QB he inherited)? The Steelers have high standards, and Tomlin's teams are simply not meeting those standards.  Will he be held accountable? 

Probably a lot happier than the other afc north fan base who’s coach just got signed to come back for a 16th season after not winning a single playoff game in his first 15 seasons. . .

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And I hate the fact that I’m having to defend Tomlin because I think he’s been out coached the past 2 playoff games.  But as GB said, who is the replacement?

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Just now, fred_1_15301 said:

That defense out there yesterday was not that talented.  I don’t think people understand who important the loss of Shazier really was.  He hid a lot of flaws in that defense.  The defensive front was good but the linebackers and entire secondary was mediocre to bad.  Spence (Shazier’s replacement) is like going from filet mignon to a McDonalds cheeseburger.  Not good.

Mitchell blows and the corners, aside from Haden, are still green.  Willie Gay needs to retire...

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5 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I am still waiting for who you want to replace him.

Anyone. Why do people believe he's somebody special? 

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Just now, GROOT said:

Anyone. Why do people believe he's somebody special? 

If the Browns and Steelers swapped head coaches, what do you think would happen?

If he was let go he'd be unemployed for about 8 seconds.

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1 minute ago, Godsbrother said:

A well thought out response. 

 

Honestly I haven't brainstormed it.. But I do know that I've seen enough.

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5 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

If the Browns and Steelers swapped head coaches, what do you think would happen?

If he was let go he'd be unemployed for about 8 seconds.

Where would you rank him as a coach in the NFL?

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Just now, GROOT said:

Honestly I haven't brainstormed it.. But I do know that I've seen enough.

Fair enough.  I am fine with getting rid of Tomlin when a better head coach is found until then I am sticking with him.   

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I don't see it with Tomlin. I always thought of him as a guy that did pretty well with not a ton of talent around him.  

I see it with a guy like Andy Reid who just seems to crash and burn and make good teams worse

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Just now, Godsbrother said:

Fair enough.  I am fine with getting rid of Tomlin when a better head coach is found until then I am sticking with him.   

I know he's not going anywhere. But he is underachieving big time IMO

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15 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

If the Browns and Steelers swapped head coaches, what do you think would happen?

If he was let go he'd be unemployed for about 8 seconds.

Thats what they used to say about the ryan brothers

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18 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

And I hate the fact that I’m having to defend Tomlin because I think he’s been out coached the past 2 playoff games.  But as GB said, who is the replacement?

That's it in a nutshell. If the latest rumors are true Josh McD will be Colts head coach, Patricia with Lions and Shurmur with Giants.

Arizona and Tennessee still looking. Not only would I not want to be in those teams shoes right now but I believe with every fiber of my being those teams would happily not just hire Tomlin but trade for him. Who is out there for those two teams? No, I don' want to be in that position.

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1 minute ago, menobrown said:

That's it in a nutshell. If the latest rumors are true Josh McD will be Colts head coach, Patricia with Lions and Shurmur with Giants.

Arizona and Tennessee still looking. Not only would I not want to be in those teams shoes right now but I believe with every fiber of my being those teams would happily not just hire Tomlin but trade for him. Who is out there for those two teams? No, I don' want to be in that position.

Tennessee going after vrabel is the rumor. Maybe schwartz to arizona? Dont know but arizona without a qb is in a bad spot.

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The Steelers were simply not that good this year - they were a disaster early, and did well in a crap division.  Not sure it's really Tomlin's fault and as noted, who do you get in his stead? Figure go one last time real hard with Big Ben next year and then look to the future.

Personally, I can't stand Tomlin - with all the BS cheating the Pats do (and deserve more than they've been handed down in punishment), I've still NEVER seen something as pathetic, cowardly, dangerous and egregious as when Tomlin interfered with an ongoing play from the sideline some time back - it has always had me in a position where I respect his success, but lost all respect for the man.

That said, he's the HC in Pitt, they are not a young team, and I don't see doing better for next year.  After that, it's time to likely move on. 

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1 minute ago, Koya said:

The Steelers were simply not that good this year - they were a disaster early, and did well in a crap division.  Not sure it's really Tomlin's fault and as noted, who do you get in his stead? Figure go one last time real hard with Big Ben next year and then look to the future.

Personally, I can't stand Tomlin - with all the BS cheating the Pats do (and deserve more than they've been handed down in punishment), I've still NEVER seen something as pathetic, cowardly, dangerous and egregious as when Tomlin interfered with an ongoing play from the sideline some time back - it has always had me in a position where I respect his success, but lost all respect for the man.

That said, he's the HC in Pitt, they are not a young team, and I don't see doing better for next year.  After that, it's time to likely move on. 

Actually aside from Ben they are a pretty young team.

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1 minute ago, Godsbrother said:

Actually aside from Ben they are a pretty young team.

Are they (asking, as I had the impression that between 84 and Ben, two of their big three are getting up there, and didn't think the defense was especially young either - perhaps I'm wrong?)

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8 minutes ago, JuniorGong said:

Steelers are typically good for two things, running their mouths and losing at home in the playoffs.

:goodposting:

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17 minutes ago, JuniorGong said:

Steelers are typically good for two things, running their mouths and losing at home in the playoffs.

And that whole winning more SB's than any other team thing.

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I haven't read any of this thread, so my apologies if others had a similar perspective.

IMO, Tomlin is a decent team builder and has an eye for talent. He is also a decent motivator. But he misses the mark on real time / in-game decision making. He hasn't really learned much from his mistakes and continues to make the same bonehead moves from season to season. That part alone would drive me nuts if I were a Steelers fan.

You can't pick and choose the traits of your head coach, so I doubt the team would cut him loose when overall things have gone pretty well. Imagine if he kept quiet instead of discussing other teams (and got his team to follow suit) and did a better job situationally. That's the tease, as those are the things that would help put PIT over the top.

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23 minutes ago, Koya said:

Are they (asking, as I had the impression that between 84 and Ben, two of their big three are getting up there, and didn't think the defense was especially young either - perhaps I'm wrong?)

http://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2017-edition/

If ya read the article  There's an attempt to explain age ranking  In comparison to say the Rams   Id much more agree w a bit long in tooth (using QB's abilities and their rarity)  My personal bias in Pitts overall ability to field a competitive team through the draft places them younger than most Teams  (Bias includes ranking Tomlin as a Great HC)

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16 minutes ago, menobrown said:

And that whole winning more SB's than any other team thing.

Yeah, I was born in the 70s so no recollection of most of those victories.  I’m sure the Steeler fans that are over 60 have fond memories though 

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4 minutes ago, JuniorGong said:

Yeah, I was born in the 70s so no recollection of most of those victories.  I’m sure the Steeler fans that are over 60 have fond memories though 

History is real and exists outside your world.

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It is difficult to judge Tomlin as a HC.  

Had he gone to the 0-16 Lions or Browns would he have lasted 3-4 years?   Tomlin took over a Super Bowl ready team with a young franchise QB in place, a great defense, and one of the best organizations in the NFL in terms of drafting and ownership. Many coaches would have had the same success with Pitt.  Those types of jobs are rarely open.

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6 minutes ago, menobrown said:

History is real and exists outside your world.

I guess I just stick to more recent history, like their 8 Home playoff losses since 1992.

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2 minutes ago, JuniorGong said:

I guess I just stick to more recent history, like their 8 Home playoff losses since 1992.

Those 70s teams were the best in NFL history IMO.  Just look at the HOFers from those teams.

Edited by JohnnyU

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2 minutes ago, JuniorGong said:

I guess I just stick to more recent history, like their 8 Home playoff losses since 1992.

I can't fix stupid but I can at least ignore it.

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2 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

It is difficult to judge Tomlin as a HC.  

Had he gone to the 0-16 Lions or Browns would he have lasted 3-4 years?   Tomlin took over a Super Bowl ready team with a young franchise QB in place, a great defense, and one of the best organizations in the NFL in terms of drafting and ownership. Many coaches would have had the same success with Pitt.  Those types of jobs are rarely open.

While most of what you posted is true, he did draft plenty of talented players. Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, LaMarr Woodley, Lawrence Timmons, Emmanuel Sanders, Maurkice Pouncey, David DeCastro, Le'Veon Bell, Ryan Shazier, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Cameron Heyward, and a many long term starters.

Over the years, new guys have come in to coach talented teams or teams with decent records before they took over. PIT was 8-8 when Cower left (yes, they won the SB the season before). Tomlin won the SB in his second season. I am not sure another coach would have stepped in and won by default like is being inferred here.

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1 minute ago, menobrown said:

I can't fix stupid but I can at least ignore it.

Not sure you're point here?

Personally, even with those home losses, Pitts had far more good fortune than all but a handful of teams, be it the last 10 years, and even moreso if you head to the 1970s...

But goodness, the 1970s are almost 50 years past at this point, so not sure how you can consider them with anything of the weight of what's happened over the last 15-20 years (less than half as long as it's been since those championships). :shrug: 

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On 12/28/2015 at 6:16 PM, Steelers4Life said:

Cowher was a great coach. To accomplish what he did with the likes of Kordell, Tomczak, O'Donnell, Maddox at QB was remarkable, and he finally won the big one when Ben was in his 2nd year. People can talk all they want about failures in the AFCC and Super Bowl, but when you're facing the likes of Elway, Aikman, and Brady in those games without anything remotely close to that level, you're up against it no matter how good your defense is or where the game is played.

If people want to then fault Cowher for never addressing the QB position, that's a fair criticism. But I don't believe Tomlin would have anywhere NEAR as much success as Cowher if he hadn't walked into such a nice situation.

Yes Cowher is a nice case study as to how a franchise QB can make any good coach into a great coach. Likewise, if you take away Elway, Aikman, Brady from their respective teams, none of those teams win the Superbowl. Not even once. 

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Maybe another coach could bring them to success, and Tomlin's name did come up in the Monday Night Football talk, but I bet he stays at least until Big Ben retires. He did inherit a great team, but it's impossible to know how any other coach would have done during the same tenure as Tomlin.

I do think Vrabel will be a great HC, and Patricia. If I had to choose 1 person to replace Tomlin it probably would be Patricia. 
I don't think Tomlin should be replaced, but I won't lie, it does annoy the ##### out of me when they lose to bad teams.

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12 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

While most of what you posted is true, he did draft plenty of talented players. Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, LaMarr Woodley, Lawrence Timmons, Emmanuel Sanders, Maurkice Pouncey, David DeCastro, Le'Veon Bell, Ryan Shazier, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Cameron Heyward, and a many long term starters.

Over the years, new guys have come in to coach talented teams or teams with decent records before they took over. PIT was 8-8 when Cower left (yes, they won the SB the season before). Tomlin won the SB in his second season. I am not sure another coach would have stepped in and won by default like is being inferred here.

Tomlin is in charge of player personnel?

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2 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

Maybe another coach could bring them to success, and Tomlin's name did come up in the Monday Night Football talk, but I bet he stays at least until Big Ben retires. He did inherit a great team, but it's impossible to know how any other coach would have done during the same tenure as Tomlin.

I do think Vrabel will be a great HC, and Patricia. If I had to choose 1 person to replace Tomlin it probably would be Patricia. 
I don't think Tomlin should be replaced, but I won't lie, it does annoy the ##### out of me when they lose to bad teams.

There was a lengthy discussion on Boston radio the other day outlining how little Belichick assistants have done as head coaches in the NFL. Front office guys have done well, but the coaches not so much.

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20 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

While most of what you posted is true, he did draft plenty of talented players. Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, LaMarr Woodley, Lawrence Timmons, Emmanuel Sanders, Maurkice Pouncey, David DeCastro, Le'Veon Bell, Ryan Shazier, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Cameron Heyward, and a many long term starters.

Over the years, new guys have come in to coach talented teams or teams with decent records before they took over. PIT was 8-8 when Cower left (yes, they won the SB the season before). Tomlin won the SB in his second season. I am not sure another coach would have stepped in and won by default like is being inferred here.

Kevin Gilbert is the GM, not Tomlin, and he of all places came from Detroit 

 

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1 minute ago, Anarchy99 said:

In charge? Probably not. Consulted on or signed off on? I would think so.

I would assume he has as much input as any coach where the GM is in charge of the draft. I’ve just never heard of someone giving a coach credit for drafting certain players if the GM was ultimately in charge.

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