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****OFFICIAL 2019 IN-SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****

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Just now, Pwingles said:

He wouldve been better off trading the 1.01 for 2-3 other picks this year, and then flipping those for more picks and just punting this year. Instead he punted this year and got nothing out of it for the future

He also would have been better off doing nothing and picking Barkley at 1.01 and the BPA at 2.01.

David Johnson could literally double his 2016 output and the guy may win 3 games.

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Just now, Dr. Octopus said:

He also would have been better off doing nothing and picking Barkley at 1.01 and the BPA at 2.01.

David Johnson could literally double his 2016 output and the guy may win 3 games.

I dont disagree. Just saying, IF youre intent on trading the 1.01, and your team looks like his does.....

He did it wrong.

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18 minutes ago, Pwingles said:

He wouldve been better off trading the 1.01 for 2-3 other picks this year, and then flipping those for more picks and just punting this year. Instead he punted this year and got nothing out of it for the future

I don't disagree with you guys that it was a bad trade for him and if it were me I would have gone the opposite direction, but many look at how far off the deep end the dynasty consensus has gone.  A 26 year old player provides "nothing for the future".

Rebuilds don't have to take 5 years.

That team stinks but it's a lot better than the team that won a title in one of my leagues was the year before he won it recently.  Things change fast in fantasy. 

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Just now, FreeBaGeL said:

I don't disagree with you guys that it was a bad trade for him and if it were me I would have gone the opposite direction, but many look at how far off the deep end the dynasty consensus has gone.  A 26 year old player provides "nothing for the future".

Rebuilds don't have to take 5 years.

That team stinks but it's a lot better than the team that won a title in one of my leagues was the year before he won it recently.  Things change fast in fantasy. 

Well he'll be 27 by season's end, but I agree the dynasty landscape writes guys off too soon and it's getting worse and worse. I'm really just commenting on this particular trade. Things can change fast, yes - but a bad team is just better off going with the youth here. The odds are by the time that team can compete Barkely will be the more valuable player.

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1 minute ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I don't disagree with you guys that it was a bad trade for him and if it were me I would have gone the opposite direction, but many look at how far off the deep end the dynasty consensus has gone.  A 26 year old player provides "nothing for the future".

Rebuilds don't have to take 5 years.

That team stinks but it's a lot better than the team that won a title in one of my leagues was the year before he won it recently.  Things change fast in fantasy. 

I agree with you in theory, but just don't see an avenue for that roster to rebound in the next couple years.  Especially in established, 4+ year old leagues, you need to be a lot better than average to have a legitimate shot.  

But I absolutely agree that we tend to overestimate turnaround time, and go overboard by telling "re-builders" to sell everyone who won't be playing in 5 years.  

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37 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I'm sure he can trade "Playoff" Danny Amendola for Julio Jones and Gronk, Chris Ivory and Cole Beasley for Le'Veon Bell and package Kearse, Benjamin and Witten for Tyreke Hill and Kareem Hunt and get in the mix for the trophy.

I'm just saying that DJ is such a force, and between him and Brees he may end up being competitive with a couple breaks. But yes, I agree this was not a good move for him.

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1 hour ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I don't disagree with you guys that it was a bad trade for him and if it were me I would have gone the opposite direction, but many look at how far off the deep end the dynasty consensus has gone.  A 26 year old player provides "nothing for the future".

Rebuilds don't have to take 5 years.

That team stinks but it's a lot better than the team that won a title in one of my leagues was the year before he won it recently.  Things change fast in fantasy. 

my thinking is this, in regard to my statement of "nothing for the future"

DJ is not winning him a ship, or making him a playoff team. But, its reasonable he could accidentally win him a few games.

This worsens his position in the draft, which makes his picks less valuable. So its directly hurting his ability to use his picks as assets for acquisitions. Also (theoretically) hurting his team assuming the prospects he uses them on, are not as good as the earlier picks would've been.

He has zero valuable assets aside from DJ at this point. So what would he do, trade DJ? If you're going to go thru all that, just keep your picks, they are more valuable to your team and your efforts of a rebuild. Unless you can trade DJ for a multitude of other good picks (which you could've done with the 1.01, probably more profitably too) I dont see how this team doesnt need to be blown up again in 2 years.

So, in summary, he gave away a potentially generational prospect and another potentially good player at the 2.01, for one player, 5+ years older with a lot of miles on him.

So yeah, his future is pretty bleak. At least if you draft barkley you can bench him for a year and essentially tank. If you trade for DJ, benching him isnt really an option and doesnt make sense, so you will trot out a less crappy team every week and skyrocket his squad to.... the middle. Which is worse than the bottom.

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41 minutes ago, Pwingles said:

my thinking is this, in regard to my statement of "nothing for the future"

DJ is not winning him a ship, or making him a playoff team. But, its reasonable he could accidentally win him a few games.

This worsens his position in the draft, which makes his picks less valuable. So its directly hurting his ability to use his picks as assets for acquisitions. Also (theoretically) hurting his team assuming the prospects he uses them on, are not as good as the earlier picks would've been.

He has zero valuable assets aside from DJ at this point. So what would he do, trade DJ? If you're going to go thru all that, just keep your picks, they are more valuable to your team and your efforts of a rebuild. Unless you can trade DJ for a multitude of other good picks (which you could've done with the 1.01, probably more profitably too) I dont see how this team doesnt need to be blown up again in 2 years.

So, in summary, he gave away a potentially generational prospect and another potentially good player at the 2.01, for one player, 5+ years older with a lot of miles on him.

So yeah, his future is pretty bleak. At least if you draft barkley you can bench him for a year and essentially tank. If you trade for DJ, benching him isnt really an option and doesnt make sense, so you will trot out a less crappy team every week and skyrocket his squad to.... the middle. Which is worse than the bottom.

I agree with most of this, but the "lot of miles" comment is misleading. DJ has only played 2 years, one as a full-time starter. He really doesn't have many miles on him at all at this point.

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24 minutes ago, Pwingles said:

So yeah, his future is pretty bleak. At least if you draft barkley you can bench him for a year and essentially tank. If you trade for DJ, benching him isnt really an option and doesnt make sense, so you will trot out a less crappy team every week and skyrocket his squad to.... the middle. Which is worse than the bottom.

This is a pretty out there point.  If Barkley hits no one in any real league is sitting him on their bench.  That person is getting kicked out of the league.  It's not a real point.

 

Quote

He has zero valuable assets aside from DJ at this point. So what would he do, trade DJ? If you're going to go thru all that, just keep your picks, they are more valuable to your team and your efforts of a rebuild. Unless you can trade DJ for a multitude of other good picks (which you could've done with the 1.01, probably more profitably too) I dont see how this team doesnt need to be blown up again in 2 years.

You're kind of making my point here.  What does he do with DJ?  Play him and try to win a championship.  His team looks like garbage but so did a team that was rolling out Alex Smith, Marvin Jones, Adam Thielen, Dion Lewis, Duke Johnson, and Mark Ingram last year and whoops, that's probably a championship roster right there especially if you add an elite RB like DJ to it.

And like I said, he's a 26/27 year old RB.  He's not 32.  He doesn't have just one year to turn it around.  A lot of the time those valuable pieces in FF don't come from the obvious sources.  I'm not saying any of this is likely, but let's stop treating dynasty like if you don't have a top team you should be punting any player that won't be around 10 years from now.  Here's what the team that just won my league championshp with 1-loss and the most points scored in league history (15 year league) looked like 3 years ago:

QB: Rodgers, Foles
RB: Frank Gore, Shonne Green, Branden Oliver, Knile Davis, Bryce Brown, Jerick McKinnon, Marcus Lattimore
WR: Josh Gordon (susp), Michael Crabtree (SF bust version), Willie Snead, Sammie Coates
TE: Larry Donnell

Again I'm not saying any of this is likely, and again I'm still well on the Barkley side here, but let's stop pretending like someone not deciding that a rebuild entails 5 years of tanking is this terrible league wrecking move.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

The odds are by the time that team can compete Barkely will be the more valuable player.

Are they?  Or are we just spoiled by the recent run of top rookie RBs paying off?  Historically, the odds are probably closer to Barkley being a borderline fantasy bench player 3 years from now.  Are we letting ourselves subconsciously overrate the likelihood of a top RB prospect obviously becoming a top fantasy player the same way a few years ago everyone was overrating the likelihood of a 1st round WR becoming a 10 year cornerstone because of a short stretch of success?

I like Barkley a lot, but he has a few warts that people are ignoring that we could easily be looking back at as indicators we should have seen coming a few years from now.

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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2 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Are they?  Or are we just spoiled by the recent run of top rookie RBs paying off?  Historically, the odds are probably closer to Barkley being a borderline fantasy bench player 3 years from now.  Are we letting ourselves subconsciously overrate the likelihood of a top RB prospect obviously becoming a top fantasy player the same way a few years ago everyone was overrating the likelihood of a 1st round WR becoming a 10 year cornerstone because of a short stretch of success?

I like Barkley a lot, but he has a few warts that people are ignoring that we could easily be looking back at as indicators we should have seen coming a few years from now.

I agree with you. This trade was a lot harder for me to pull the trigger on than people in my league seem to think. DJ is an absolute stud, and if he would have played this year, I suspect a lot of people wouldn't make that trade. Everyone forgets just how good he really was last year.

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32 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

  Historically, the odds are probably closer to Barkley being a borderline fantasy bench player 3 years from now. 

Not recent history, recent history suggests not much safer then a top 10 drafted RB and really there is not much safer than a RB who catches passes.

I'm sure you don't believe what you wrote, you don't truly believe the odds are better he'll be be a borderline bench player in 3 years.

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1 hour ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Are they?  Or are we just spoiled by the recent run of top rookie RBs paying off?  Historically, the odds are probably closer to Barkley being a borderline fantasy bench player 3 years from now.  Are we letting ourselves subconsciously overrate the likelihood of a top RB prospect obviously becoming a top fantasy player the same way a few years ago everyone was overrating the likelihood of a 1st round WR becoming a 10 year cornerstone because of a short stretch of success?

I like Barkley a lot, but he has a few warts that people are ignoring that we could easily be looking back at as indicators we should have seen coming a few years from now.

This could go both ways though. I can just as easily say let’s look at the players that had one good season during their first starting year (like say Doug Martin or Trent Richardson) and then fell apart. I don’t think Johnson will, but he could.

I’ll stick with my statement that Barkley is more likely to be the more valuable player in 2 seasons from now.

i know you’re trying to make a greater point - a point I actually agree with - I just think you’re using the wrong jumping off point.

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1 hour ago, kutta said:

I agree with you. This trade was a lot harder for me to pull the trigger on than people in my league seem to think. DJ is an absolute stud, and if he would have played this year, I suspect a lot of people wouldn't make that trade. Everyone forgets just how good he really was last year.

See if I was you, it wouldn’t have been an easy accept either. Johnson could go on to have 5 more great seasons. My main beef is from the perspective of your trade partner. It was a bad trade for him - that doesn’t necessarily make it a great trade for you. I think it was, but we don’t really know that. It’s just hard to see it being a win for him unless some very strange things happen.

 

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14 team TE Premium with 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 2 flex and 1 TE

Gave: LeSean McCoy, Devin Funchess, and 2.04 (18th)

Received: Travis Kelce, Jerick McKinnon, and ‘20 2nd

My team is currently a borderline competitor that is set up well for the future (generally young core, 1.03, 4 quality 19 firsts, and 2 20 1sts). In TE premium I felt Kelce and McKinnon made a worthwhile package as McCoy’s value fades. Other team had both Kelce and Ertz but no RB1 and little WR depth. 

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6 hours ago, kutta said:

Here it is in all its glory. 12-team PPR. Start 1QB, 1RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1 Flex

Brees, Drew NOS QB340.665

Prescott, Dak DAL QB340.666

Trubisky, Mitchell CHI QB (R)178.529

 

Abdullah, Ameer DET RB133.407

Charles, Jamaal DEN RB71.505

Forte, Matt NYJ RB (I)122.4011

Ivory, Chris JAC RB91.808

Riddick, Theo DET RB152.107

Stewart, Jonathan CAR RB129.7011

 

Amendola, Danny NEP WR136.909

Austin, Tavon LAR WR51.908

Beasley, Cole DAL WR87.406

Benjamin, Travis LAC WR120.709

Fitzgerald, Larry ARI WR257.448

Kearse, Jermaine NYJ WR171.0011

 

Clay, Charles BUF TE114.806

Gresham, Jermaine ARI TE (D)75.208

Witten, Jason DAL TE144.006

 

Crosby, Mason GBP PK80.008

Vinatieri, Adam IND PK119.0011

Falcons, Atlanta ATL Def121.005

Panthers, Carolina CAR Def

his team is an interesting mix of older, veteran players and....garbage. 

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19 minutes ago, mikel2014 said:

14 team TE Premium with 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 2 flex and 1 TE

Gave: LeSean McCoy, Devin Funchess, and 2.04 (18th)

Received: Travis Kelce, Jerick McKinnon, and ‘20 2nd

My team is currently a borderline competitor that is set up well for the future (generally young core, 1.03, 4 quality 19 firsts, and 2 20 1sts). In TE premium I felt Kelce and McKinnon made a worthwhile package as McCoy’s value fades. Other team had both Kelce and Ertz but no RB1 and little WR depth. 

Kelce side in a normal league.

Kelce side in a LANDSLIDE in tight end premium.

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5 hours ago, kutta said:

I agree with you. This trade was a lot harder for me to pull the trigger on than people in my league seem to think. DJ is an absolute stud, and if he would have played this year, I suspect a lot of people wouldn't make that trade. Everyone forgets just how good he really was last year.

The trade is fine for you, or would have been fine for you to just keep DJ.

On the other hand, it was a bad trade for the other guy.  

If I ever happen to have a horrific roster like his I am spending 2-3 years doing nothing but trading all my picks for more/better future picks and not winning a single game until 2020 at the earliest.

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On 1/2/2018 at 6:57 AM, fruity pebbles said:

12 team ppr dynasty.  I have a pretty nice team especially at wr and rb.  Trade my 1.3 treadwell and Kevin white for 2.1 hunter Henry and mahomes,.  Thoughts?

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35 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

wow thats bad

For what side?  Landry isn't a sexy player to own I get that but he's as consistent as you can probably get.  He's the best WR2 that you could probably get and a not so terrible WR1 in dire circumstances.  I'm assuming PPR but I could be wrong here which makes it pretty close to me.  If it's not PPR then I'll take Garoppolo rather easily.  Garoppolo hasn't done much but I understand the optimism surrounding him.  The whole QB landscape is in turmoil right now, good luck figuring out which ones will have staying power in the top10.  

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7 hours ago, Zyphros said:

For what side?  Landry isn't a sexy player to own I get that but he's as consistent as you can probably get.  He's the best WR2 that you could probably get and a not so terrible WR1 in dire circumstances.  I'm assuming PPR but I could be wrong here which makes it pretty close to me.  If it's not PPR then I'll take Garoppolo rather easily.  Garoppolo hasn't done much but I understand the optimism surrounding him.  The whole QB landscape is in turmoil right now, good luck figuring out which ones will have staying power in the top10.  

Agree in that this is a trade that probably makes sense for both teams based on their rosters...if you are thin at QB I think getting Jimmy G could look like a real shrewd move in the very near future...things are lining up for him to have a nice run of fantasy success...as for Landry he is what he is...a quality fantasy WR...he can be a little frustrating to those with high expectations but he is still only 25 and if you can slot him correctly in your roster he can be a real nice asset...

Edited by Boston

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12 hours ago, Matt's Eagles said:

12 team PPR

Team A got Julio Jones, Deangelo Henderson (RB), pick 4.06

Team B got Jordan Howard, Sammy Watkins, pick 2.11

Julio

9 hours ago, mzkp54 said:

PPR, Superflex - Jimmy Garoppolo for Jarvis Landry

Garoppolo

9 hours ago, mikel2014 said:

14 team TE Premium with 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 2 flex and 1 TE

Gave: LeSean McCoy, Devin Funchess, and 2.04 (18th)

Received: Travis Kelce, Jerick McKinnon, and ‘20 2nd

Kelce

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7 hours ago, Zyphros said:

For what side?  Landry isn't a sexy player to own I get that but he's as consistent as you can probably get.  He's the best WR2 that you could probably get and a not so terrible WR1 in dire circumstances.  I'm assuming PPR but I could be wrong here which makes it pretty close to me.  If it's not PPR then I'll take Garoppolo rather easily.  Garoppolo hasn't done much but I understand the optimism surrounding him.  The whole QB landscape is in turmoil right now, good luck figuring out which ones will have staying power in the top10.  

Garoppolo is 26 and this is a superflex. He's playing under the coach that created a ridiculous career year for Matt Ryan. I know he's kind of an unknown but he was drafted in the 2nd round by the Pats and looked good in a small sample size last year (not unlike Watson who is getting the benefit of the doubt). I'd snap accept but then again, I'm not that optimistic about Landry's workload continuing. He's a tough, gritty player who can play an important role, but if you're giving him 160 targets, you're doing something wrong.

But the key here is superflex. Young-ish QBs with a clear path to starting for a few years (dat contract) should carry a lot of value. 

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14 hours ago, kutta said:

I agree with most of this, but the "lot of miles" comment is misleading. DJ has only played 2 years, one as a full-time starter. He really doesn't have many miles on him at all at this point.

Do your miles reset from college to the pro's?

50 games in college, 1007 offensive touches, add 550 offensive touches in the NFL while missing essentially all of this year, thats a fair amount

Edited by Pwingles

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14 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

This is a pretty out there point.  If Barkley hits no one in any real league is sitting him on their bench.  That person is getting kicked out of the league.  It's not a real point.

League rules are different everywhere, I agree its in poor taste, but its less egregious to do this with a rookie

You're kind of making my point here.  What does he do with DJ?  Play him and try to win a championship.  His team looks like garbage but so did a team that was rolling out Alex Smith, Marvin Jones, Adam Thielen, Dion Lewis, Duke Johnson, and Mark Ingram last year and whoops, that's probably a championship roster right there especially if you add an elite RB like DJ to it.

You are grasping at straws here, comparing the roster above to the roster in question

And like I said, he's a 26/27 year old RB.  He's not 32.  He doesn't have just one year to turn it around.  A lot of the time those valuable pieces in FF don't come from the obvious sources.  I'm not saying any of this is likely, but let's stop treating dynasty like if you don't have a top team you should be punting any player that won't be around 10 years from now.  Here's what the team that just won my league championshp with 1-loss and the most points scored in league history (15 year league) looked like 3 years ago:

QB: Rodgers, Foles
RB: Frank Gore, Shonne Green, Branden Oliver, Knile Davis, Bryce Brown, Jerick McKinnon, Marcus Lattimore
WR: Josh Gordon (susp), Michael Crabtree (SF bust version), Willie Snead, Sammie Coates
TE: Larry Donnell

Did this guy punt the 1.01 and the 2.01 too? I doubt it. 3 years of top 3 picks will help any team.

Again I'm not saying any of this is likely, and again I'm still well on the Barkley side here, but let's stop pretending like someone not deciding that a rebuild entails 5 years of tanking is this terrible league wrecking move.

I guess you're talking to someone else here, I dont remember making that argument

 

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38 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

Garoppolo is 26 and this is a superflex. He's playing under the coach that created a ridiculous career year for Matt Ryan. I know he's kind of an unknown but he was drafted in the 2nd round by the Pats and looked good in a small sample size last year (not unlike Watson who is getting the benefit of the doubt). I'd snap accept but then again, I'm not that optimistic about Landry's workload continuing. He's a tough, gritty player who can play an important role, but if you're giving him 160 targets, you're doing something wrong.

But the key here is superflex. Young-ish QBs with a clear path to starting for a few years (dat contract) should carry a lot of value. 

Now that I see this is a super-flex I would be all in on Jimmy G...didn't read that correctly the first time...

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1 hour ago, FF Ninja said:

Garoppolo is 26 and this is a superflex. He's playing under the coach that created a ridiculous career year for Matt Ryan. I know he's kind of an unknown but he was drafted in the 2nd round by the Pats and looked good in a small sample size last year (not unlike Watson who is getting the benefit of the doubt). I'd snap accept but then again, I'm not that optimistic about Landry's workload continuing. He's a tough, gritty player who can play an important role, but if you're giving him 160 targets, you're doing something wrong.

But the key here is superflex. Young-ish QBs with a clear path to starting for a few years (dat contract) should carry a lot of value. 

All my leagues are 2QB so I'm very familiar with that type of format.  I just feel Landry is yearly underappreciated.  His last 3 years he hasn't finished below the top15 WR's, and I think people are using his tag as an excuse to be lower on him than people already were.  He isn't a high brand name in that he carries value when he hasn't proven it (ex. Sammy Watkins), he's the reverse of that where year in and out he out performs the majority of guys but doesn't get the value bump for that.  

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9 hours ago, Zyphros said:

For what side?  Landry isn't a sexy player to own I get that but he's as consistent as you can probably get.  He's the best WR2 that you could probably get and a not so terrible WR1 in dire circumstances.  I'm assuming PPR but I could be wrong here which makes it pretty close to me.  If it's not PPR then I'll take Garoppolo rather easily.  Garoppolo hasn't done much but I understand the optimism surrounding him.  The whole QB landscape is in turmoil right now, good luck figuring out which ones will have staying power in the top10.  

It's a super flex.  JG by a lot

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14 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

All my leagues are 2QB so I'm very familiar with that type of format.  I just feel Landry is yearly underappreciated.  His last 3 years he hasn't finished below the top15 WR's, and I think people are using his tag as an excuse to be lower on him than people already were.  He isn't a high brand name in that he carries value when he hasn't proven it (ex. Sammy Watkins), he's the reverse of that where year in and out he out performs the majority of guys but doesn't get the value bump for that.  

JG has to be at least double, maybe triple, Landry in a superflex.

JG probably outscores Landry by 100 points.  Unless this is some sort of really weird scoring system.  

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2 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

All my leagues are 2QB so I'm very familiar with that type of format.  I just feel Landry is yearly underappreciated.  His last 3 years he hasn't finished below the top15 WR's, and I think people are using his tag as an excuse to be lower on him than people already were.  He isn't a high brand name in that he carries value when he hasn't proven it (ex. Sammy Watkins), he's the reverse of that where year in and out he out performs the majority of guys but doesn't get the value bump for that.  

To me it just feels like it has to come to an end soon. Kind of like Trent Richardson. At some point teams will realize throwing 160 targets to a guy who gets 9-10 YPR and averages like 1 TD per 25 receptions is just not a winning solution, just like teams realized letting Trent get 3 ypc was not a winning solution. A team is best served letting him run block and catching check down passes over the middle, maybe 100ish targets. He just not as electric as Tate or as big of a target as Fitzgerald. There's a reason Fitzgerald usually has more yards, TDs, and first downs than Landry on similar catches and why Tate has more YAC despite substantially fewer catches. Landry is a good player, but he shouldn't be a target hog.

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30 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

To me it just feels like it has to come to an end soon. Kind of like Trent Richardson. At some point teams will realize throwing 160 targets to a guy who gets 9-10 YPR and averages like 1 TD per 25 receptions is just not a winning solution, just like teams realized letting Trent get 3 ypc was not a winning solution. A team is best served letting him run block and catching check down passes over the middle, maybe 100ish targets. He just not as electric as Tate or as big of a target as Fitzgerald. There's a reason Fitzgerald usually has more yards, TDs, and first downs than Landry on similar catches and why Tate has more YAC despite substantially fewer catches. Landry is a good player, but he shouldn't be a target hog.

The Patriots won Super Bowls getting 9-10 yards a pop from the slot.  I don't understand what you have against slot utilization.  It's trending up, so you might want to get used to it.  And Landry is absolutely as electric as Tate.  He's a RB with the ball in his hands.  Speed is not the only measure of explosion.  

You've been beating the anti-Landry drum for years, and he just keeps putting up points and proving you wrong.  You said it was system and Tanny last year.  He's now done it in 2 different systems with 2 different coaches and 3+ different QBs.  Every. Single. Season. Eventually you have to confront your initial stance instead of doubling down at each step, right?

Edited by Concept Coop

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Just now, Concept Coop said:

The Patriots won Super Bowls getting 9-10 yards a pop from the slot.  I don't understand what you have against slot utilization.  It's trending up, so you might want to get used to it.  And Landry is absolutely as electric as Tate.  He's a RB with the ball in his hands.  Speed is not the measure of explosion.  

You've been beating the anti-Landry drum for years, and he just keeps putting up points and proving you wrong.  You said it was system and Tanny last year.  He's now done it in 2 different systems with 2 different coaches and 3+ different QBs.  Eventually you have to confront your initial stance instead of doubling down at each step, right?

Oh crap... you saw my post. I was genuinely hoping I could slide that in without you noticing! I think Tate had 20% more YAC on 20% fewer receptions, so I strongly disagree that Landry is as electric as Tate.

I think it is no coincidence that Miami's best year in the past 3 years was when Landry received the least targets. I don't think giving that guy 160 targets is how you win games. But at the same time, I don't think having Parker as your WR1 is how you win games, either.

The Patriots run a different offense than Miami, and generally speaking the Patroits are the exception to most rules. If replicating what they do was so easy and successful, other teams would be doing it.

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19 hours ago, kutta said:

Here it is in all its glory. 12-team PPR. Start 1QB, 1RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1 Flex

Brees, Drew NOS QB340.665

Prescott, Dak DAL QB340.666

Trubisky, Mitchell CHI QB (R)178.529

 

Abdullah, Ameer DET RB133.407

Charles, Jamaal DEN RB71.505

Forte, Matt NYJ RB (I)122.4011

Ivory, Chris JAC RB91.808

Riddick, Theo DET RB152.107

Stewart, Jonathan CAR RB129.7011

 

Amendola, Danny NEP WR136.909

Austin, Tavon LAR WR51.908

Beasley, Cole DAL WR87.406

Benjamin, Travis LAC WR120.709

Fitzgerald, Larry ARI WR257.448

Kearse, Jermaine NYJ WR171.0011

 

Clay, Charles BUF TE114.806

Gresham, Jermaine ARI TE (D)75.208

Witten, Jason DAL TE144.006

 

Crosby, Mason GBP PK80.008

Vinatieri, Adam IND PK119.0011

Falcons, Atlanta ATL Def121.005

Panthers, Carolina CAR Def

That is quite possibly the worst dynasty team i've ever seen.  close to zero value on that team.  Trading 1.01 for DJ is beyond bizarre since he alone can't help that train wreck of a team.

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31 minutes ago, ILUVBEER99 said:

That is quite possibly the worst dynasty team i've ever seen.  close to zero value on that team.  Trading 1.01 for DJ is beyond bizarre since he alone can't help that train wreck of a team.

He’s ok at qb....

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2 hours ago, Pwingles said:

Do your miles reset from college to the pro's?

50 games in college, 1007 offensive touches, add 550 offensive touches in the NFL while missing essentially all of this year, thats a fair amount

Not really. He played at Northern Iowa. The hits he took there are nothing at all like NFL hits. Those miles are like sitting in first class of a luxury jet.

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44 minutes ago, kutta said:

Not really. He played at Northern Iowa. The hits he took there are nothing at all like NFL hits. Those miles are like sitting in first class of a luxury jet.

You obviously felt you were getting a player with similar or more upside in the deal, if not, you would still have DJ. So, something in the details made you lean one way and im pretty sure it wasnt him adding the 2.01...

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DJ and pick 1 are basically the same value when you have a great team.

DJ and pick 1 are pretty close in value (with pick 1 being more valuable) when you have an average team.

Pick 1 is much more valuable than DJ when you have the worst dynasty team ever assembled.  That team is 3 years away from a chance at competing even if a GOOD owner took control and that good owner had experience with major rebuilds in the past.  That team might only have a chance to ever compete if future picks two years away are allowed to be traded so that he can get some value for his QBs at least.

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30 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

DJ and pick 1 are basically the same value when you have a great team.

DJ and pick 1 are pretty close in value (with pick 1 being more valuable) when you have an average team.

Pick 1 is much more valuable than DJ when you have the worst dynasty team ever assembled.  That team is 3 years away from a chance at competing even if a GOOD owner took control and that good owner had experience with major rebuilds in the past.  That team might only have a chance to ever compete if future picks two years away are allowed to be traded so that he can get some value for his QBs at least.

He's got dak, he can trade brees and trubisky for receiver help. 

He's got dj, who was worth more than 2 rb1s in 2016.

He's got fitz and kearse right now, so his receivers aren't a total liability. 

And right now everyone looks at him as 2019 1.1, so he has trade bait, even if he's just shopping his 2019 second. 

I think with that team you can build something that can compete.  Trading for a veteran might not have been the right thing to do but now that he has, he's got a one year window with Fitzgerald and he needs to build like it. 

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6 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

He's got dak, he can trade brees and trubisky for receiver help. 

He's got dj, who was worth more than 2 rb1s in 2016.

He's got fitz and kearse right now, so his receivers aren't a total liability. 

And right now everyone looks at him as 2019 1.1, so he has trade bait, even if he's just shopping his 2019 second. 

I think with that team you can build something that can compete.  Trading for a veteran might not have been the right thing to do but now that he has, he's got a one year window with Fitzgerald and he needs to build like it. 

ouch that would be one horrible strategy.  When he inevitably sucks this year, his rebuild will take 5 years because all his tradeable assets will be worth less, made worse by trading for "win now" types.  Yikes

And remember, this is a TERRIBLE owner, likely by far the worst owner in that league, yet we expect him to take his team with by far less value than all the other teams and turn it into a contender for one year, then perform a successful rebuild afterwards?

Edited by ghostguy123

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44 minutes ago, Pwingles said:

You obviously felt you were getting a player with similar or more upside in the deal, if not, you would still have DJ. So, something in the details made you lean one way and im pretty sure it wasnt him adding the 2.01...

It was more about the five years younger, not the miles. 

I still have a little seller's remorse though...

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12 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

ouch that would be one horrible strategy.  When he inevitably sucks this year, his rebuild will take 5 years because all his tradeable assets will be worth less, made worse by trading for "win now" types.  Yikes

And remember, this is a TERRIBLE owner, likely by far the worst owner in that league, yet we expect him to take his team with by far less value than all the other teams and turn it into a contender for one year, then perform a successful rebuild afterwards?

 If you make this trade you can't trade away fitz, and brees had zero value to you.  Your 2019 second is going to be a hot commodity once this year's draft is over. It sounds like he gave up all of his 2018 draft capital to get dj.  What would you suggest? 

And no, going back in time to undo the trade is not an option. 

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56 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

DJ and pick 1 are basically the same value when you have a great team.

DJ and pick 1 are pretty close in value (with pick 1 being more valuable) when you have an average team.

Pick 1 is much more valuable than DJ when you have the worst dynasty team ever assembled.  That team is 3 years away from a chance at competing even if a GOOD owner took control and that good owner had experience with major rebuilds in the past.  That team might only have a chance to ever compete if future picks two years away are allowed to be traded so that he can get some value for his QBs at least.

You are assuming that Barkley will be a top 5 RB for the next 3-5 years.  There is no guarantee that will happen and at least DJ has had two years of putting up good numbers in the NFL.  He has shown he can be a top 5 RB in the NFL and he doesn't have the miles to think he will fall off a cliff in 1-2 years. 

 

If you aren't sold on Barkley being a 100% top 5 RB for the next 3-5 years and you believe that DJ is then I would say regardless of your team situation the 1.01 and DJ are equivalent commodities. 

 

If I was in his shoes I would have help the 1.01 until closer to the draft as the price will continue to go up as everyone wants the shiny new toy.  But I don't think making this move if you aren't sold on Barkley and are sold on DJ is a bad move. 

 

 

Edited by Gally
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3 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

 If you make this trade you can't trade away fitz, and brees had zero value to you.  Your 2019 second is going to be a hot commodity once this year's draft is over. It sounds like he gave up all of his 2018 draft capital to get dj.  What would you suggest? 

And no, going back in time to undo the trade is not an option. 

I suggest finding a team who needs a RB and look to pick up future assets.  He might be able to trade DJ for more than pick 1 if he finds the right team who thinks a top flight RB puts them over the top.  

The trade itself was not bad, but makes no sense for his situation UNLESS he can get more in trade for DJ than he could have for pick 1, though he probably won't especially considering he also gave up pick 13 in the deal.

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2 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

I suggest finding a team who needs a RB and look to pick up future assets.  He might be able to trade DJ for more than pick 1 if he finds the right team who thinks a top flight RB puts them over the top.  

The trade itself was not bad, but makes no sense for his situation UNLESS he can get more in trade for DJ than he could have for pick 1, though he probably won't especially considering he also gave up pick 13 in the deal.

Maybe I should go back and offer him the 1.04, 1.11, 2.01, and 2.04 for DJ...

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