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****OFFICIAL 2019 IN-SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****

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14 minutes ago, ILUVBEER99 said:

Me too.  I just don't think it's odd at all if someone prefers 2.02 over Miller.  Very fair valuation on Miller based on his decent rookie year.  I usually base a WR's success on yardage and not TD's rookie season.  He only averaged 28 yards a game.  He's still a total crapshoot.

I'm not saying Miller is worth more than the 2.02 to everyone, my point was that he was probably drafted around that spot, so why trade him for the same in which you gave?  That means you're another year behind in player development for your dynasty team and will draft someone else at 2.02 that probably won't do any better than Miller and will probably do worse.

Edited by JohnnyU

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12 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I'm not saying Miller is worth more than the 2.02 to everyone, my point was that he was probably drafted around that spot, so why trade him for the same in which you gave?  That means you're another year behind in player development for your dynasty team and will draft someone else at 2.02 that probably won't do any better than Miller and will probably do worse.

I understand your point and I've been sticking up a bit for Miller in this thread and not to be a contrarian but because while his current situation and health is not ideal, I like the talent I saw when healthy.

But I don't agree with your reasoning for someone to not trade him if they spent 2.2 on him last year. Pre-draft analysis is one thing, actually seeing a guy play in the league trumps that for me and I'm sure others. So to me it's only natural to change your outlook on a player you were projecting what they'd look like in the league after you've actually got to see that player in the league.

I just think people should look past more then just raw production when changing their outlook on players and try to not get to caught up in the here and now. Like with TE's which I mentioned earlier.  I'd venture to guess that about 80% of TE's drafted in top two rounds of dynasty rookie drafts lose value heading into year two because they had disappointing production from a position that does not yield much rookie production.

 

Edited by menobrown
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5 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I understand your point and I've been sticking up a bit for Miller in this thread and not to be a contrarian but because while his current situation and health is not ideal, I like the talent I saw when healthy.

 

What's wrong with his current situation?  Trubisky is a good young QB and I don't see Allen Robinson as a future vulture.  Robinson doesn't scare anyone.   I think Miller will be their #1 WR soon.

Edited by JohnnyU

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

What's wrong with his current situation?  Trubisky is a good young QB and I don't see Allen Robinson as a future vulture.  Robinson doesn't scare anyone.   I think Miller will be their #1 WR soon.

Trubisky is still more athlete then QB to me but for sure Robinson is the bigger issue.  You might not be scared by Robinson and I'm no big fan myself but I think he's the #1WR on the team that was 23rd in the NFL on pass attempts to WR's.  It's a small WR pie to be eating seconds.

I think Bears and Chiefs had a similar approach to FA last offseason. Aggressively pursue a big weapon to help their young QB but align that contract as one that comes off the books or has an easy out when it's time to extend that young QB. So saying that my money is not on Robinson being a long term Bear, but for 1-2 more years.

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Good conversation on Miller.  My main issue with him is that he's really old for a rookie.  He will be almost 25 when next season starts. 

The shoulder injury is making him look like a decent buy low right now.  It seemed to fly under the radar a bit. 

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 10 team ppr full IDP

James Washington

for

Ronald Jones + Josh Gordon + Justin Jackson

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JJSS

for

D.J. Moore + 1.02 + 1.03

 

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2 minutes ago, Ben & Jerry's said:

JJSS

for

D.J. Moore + 1.02 + 1.03

Good haul for JJSS in my opinion.  But I may be slightly higher than most on Moore.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

What's wrong with his current situation?  Trubisky is a good young QB and I don't see Allen Robinson as a future vulture.  Robinson doesn't scare anyone.   I think Miller will be their #1 WR soon.

Yeah but that doesn't say anything about your point of moving a guy for what you paid for him.

I would agree I wouldn't move a guy for what I paid if the consensus was that his value had increased, but Miller's really hasn't.  It has at best held constant as a lot of the momentum he had in dynasty trade circles from last offseason has worn off.

I think a lot of people that were caught up in that momentum have cooled on him so getting out for what you paid is a pretty reasonable path in that scenario.

Personally I could see Miller following a kind of Sterling Shepard value path as an up and down #2 option on a medium-low volume passing offense where he keeps putting up decent numbers but just consistently bleeds more and more trade value as time goes on.

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1 minute ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Yeah but that doesn't say anything about your point of moving a guy for what you paid for him.

I would agree I wouldn't move a guy for what I paid if the consensus was that his value had increased, but Miller's really hasn't.  It has at best held constant as a lot of the momentum he had in dynasty trade circles from last offseason has worn off.

I think a lot of people that were caught up in that momentum have cooled on him so getting out for what you paid is a pretty reasonable path in that scenario.

Personally I could see Miller following a kind of Sterling Shepard value path as an up and down #2 option on a medium-low volume passing offense where he keeps putting up decent numbers but just consistently bleeds more and more trade value as time goes on.

His momentum slowed obviously after he got hurt, but for a first year player he did fine.  He is a lot more dynamic of a player than Shepard.  I expect him to progress even further in 2019.  Getting 7 TDs for being hurt at least a 1/3 of the year was impressive. 

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4 minutes ago, Matt's Eagles said:

12 Team PPR

Team A gets A Jeffrey, 2.1

Team B gets Godwin, Callaway, 2.8

I'm not even sure that makes the new Alshon owner better in 2019.  Give me the young players all day.

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I have no problem with 2.02 for Miller. I’m not high on Trubisky as he has accuracy issues, plays in the tundra and Miller was ancient for a rookie. Swapping an upside 25 year old for an upside 22 year old rookie is fine business. 

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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

I'm not even sure that makes the new Alshon owner better in 2019.  Give me the young players all day.

All day!

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7 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

What's wrong with his current situation?  Trubisky is a good young QB and I don't see Allen Robinson as a future vulture.  Robinson doesn't scare anyone.   I think Miller will be their #1 WR soon.

Based on what? Statements like this just seem like wishful thinking or an attempt to get out ahead of the curve before a prospect blows up. Miller had a decent rookie season, with a handful of fantasy relevant games mid-season, but he in no way lived up to his pre-season hype. I recall there was a week or two around training camp where it was trendy to say he was the best WR in the draft class, because he looked ok in a couple of practices. If you'd sold him then, you would have been able to cash out for more than what you would get for him now. 

Robinson didn't have an awesome year but he improved as the season went on. I don't see any reason to think that he will take a back seat to Miller in the offense next year. At most, maybe the split between the two becomes more even? I'm just not sure what he showed that would make anyone think he's more than a complementary piece in an offense. 

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6 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Yeah but that doesn't say anything about your point of moving a guy for what you paid for him.

I would agree I wouldn't move a guy for what I paid if the consensus was that his value had increased, but Miller's really hasn't.  It has at best held constant as a lot of the momentum he had in dynasty trade circles from last offseason has worn off.

I think a lot of people that were caught up in that momentum have cooled on him so getting out for what you paid is a pretty reasonable path in that scenario.

Personally I could see Miller following a kind of Sterling Shepard value path as an up and down #2 option on a medium-low volume passing offense where he keeps putting up decent numbers but just consistently bleeds more and more trade value as time goes on.

Agreed. And if someone (like me) doesn't think Miller will ascend to a value higher than late 1st or early 2nd, then selling him for ~the same price as they paid is really not a bad move. It isn't a wasted pick, it is just kicking the value down the road a season. No biggie. At least it is a second dart throw instead of a year of sitting on your bench. Obviously if he emerges as a stud then it would have been bad, but his early 2nd value could still drop, too. Breaking even with a freeroll to land a better prospect next year. 

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3 hours ago, Matt's Eagles said:

12 Team PPR

Team A gets A Jeffrey, 2.1

Team B gets Godwin, Callaway, 2.8

Godwin is worth considerably more than Alshon alone IMO.

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1 hour ago, RushHour said:

Based on what? Statements like this just seem like wishful thinking or an attempt to get out ahead of the curve before a prospect blows up. Miller had a decent rookie season, with a handful of fantasy relevant games mid-season, but he in no way lived up to his pre-season hype. I recall there was a week or two around training camp where it was trendy to say he was the best WR in the draft class, because he looked ok in a couple of practices. If you'd sold him then, you would have been able to cash out for more than what you would get for him now. 

Robinson didn't have an awesome year but he improved as the season went on. I don't see any reason to think that he will take a back seat to Miller in the offense next year. At most, maybe the split between the two becomes more even? I'm just not sure what he showed that would make anyone think he's more than a complementary piece in an offense. 

I think the big disconnect on how a lot of you view Miller vs the way myself and I think JohhnyU views him is I'm guessing most of you don't think playing with his shoulder was a big issue. I'm not trying to say that in a condescending way either. Speaking for myself I think it was a major issue to overcome.  So I  won't argue the play on the field lived up to the hype, I would however argue any WR suffering a severe separated shoulder would  also not live up to the hype. Again, goes back to how much you think the injury did or did not impact him.

I still think Robinson is the likely #1 for next year at least and volume of passes to WR's and Trubisky remain issues and due to that I've both argued for Millers future prospects but also fully understand why someone would want to move him for 2.2. I would just say again  I don't think his injury gave him a fighting chance to live up to the hype and I expect a markedly improved player next year but more along the lines of a solid WR3 for now and as @edgar pointed out if someone wanted to cash in that chip for a younger prospect that makes sense to me.

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FPC

Coleman, Tevin 
Henry, Derrick 
Kittle, George 
Callaway, Antonio 

For

Allen, Keenan 
Johnson, David
Thomas, Ian (TE)
2019 2.05 & 3.05

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9 hours ago, RushHour said:

Based on what? Statements like this just seem like wishful thinking or an attempt to get out ahead of the curve before a prospect blows up. Miller had a decent rookie season, with a handful of fantasy relevant games mid-season, but he in no way lived up to his pre-season hype. I recall there was a week or two around training camp where it was trendy to say he was the best WR in the draft class, because he looked ok in a couple of practices. If you'd sold him then, you would have been able to cash out for more than what you would get for him now. 

Robinson didn't have an awesome year but he improved as the season went on. I don't see any reason to think that he will take a back seat to Miller in the offense next year. At most, maybe the split between the two becomes more even? I'm just not sure what he showed that would make anyone think he's more than a complementary piece in an offense. 

It may not happen in 2019 but eventually Miller will overtake Robinson as their #1, who I've never been all that high on.  Miller's rookie year was decent for what happened with his injury and I know he has the chops to be better than Allen Robinson.

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2 hours ago, boltsfan said:

10 team 1.0 PPR Dynasty

Team A gave: Alex Collins, 1.08

Team B gave: Derrius Guice

Huh? Is this trade from last year, right afte Guice got hurt and before Alex Collins was phased out as their primary RB? Collins doesn’t even factor into the trade for me. It’s Guice for 1.08.

If you held on to Guice for this long, why would you sell him so low now? Is there some horrible recent news I have heard about? Was he run over by a truck? Even so, Guice. 

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3 hours ago, NE_REVIVAL said:

FPC

Coleman, Tevin 
Henry, Derrick 
Kittle, George 
Callaway, Antonio 

For

Allen, Keenan 
Johnson, David
Thomas, Ian (TE)
2019 2.05 & 3.05

This is a weird one in my head.  Kittle himself is probably even with Keenan Allen in FFPC and then the other 3 in the Kittle group are basically droppable in FFPC format, other than Henry who isn't nearly as valuable since its full ppr.  Keenan Allen side rather easily.  I'm a big Ian Thomas fan, plus picks and DJ who should be improved this year?  Yeah that side.  

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Not involved. Standard 12 team PPR. Not TE premium.

Team A gave Le'veon Bell

Team B gave George Kittle

Edited by Denver724

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4 hours ago, NE_REVIVAL said:

FPC

Coleman, Tevin 
Henry, Derrick 
Kittle, George 
Callaway, Antonio 

For

Allen, Keenan 
Johnson, David
Thomas, Ian (TE)
2019 2.05 & 3.05

Pretty even deal right now. Got players on both sides of this deal I for sure would not be out trying to buy right now at their price but I'd take the Kittle side in a close call.

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5 hours ago, NE_REVIVAL said:

FPC

Coleman, Tevin 
Henry, Derrick 
Kittle, George 
Callaway, Antonio 

For

Allen, Keenan 
Johnson, David
Thomas, Ian (TE)
2019 2.05 & 3.05

FPC is TE bonus isn't it? Kittle & Henry pretty easily if that's the case (and I like Thomas a lot as a potential TE flyer.) I want no part of DJ, especially with the Kingsbury hire.

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5 hours ago, joey said:

Huh? Is this trade from last year, right afte Guice got hurt and before Alex Collins was phased out as their primary RB? Collins doesn’t even factor into the trade for me. It’s Guice for 1.08.

If you held on to Guice for this long, why would you sell him so low now? Is there some horrible recent news I have heard about? Was he run over by a truck? Even so, Guice. 

I got Guice. Recently. Surprised me for sure.

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8 hours ago, menobrown said:

Pretty even deal right now. Got players on both sides of this deal I for sure would not be out trying to buy right now at their price but I'd take the Kittle side in a close call.

Thanks, thats pretty much how i saw it; i was the Allen\DJ side and I think it is pretty close. I owned Henry in 5 out of 6 fpc lgs, i am pretty high on Thomas and roster cut to 16 all played into it as well.

Edited by NE_REVIVAL
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Guys I know this is for completed trades, but this is so big would love to get thoughts before I potentially makes this trade if you'll allow this once 

Give: Zeke

Get: Mike Thomas & 1.12 

12 team PPR dynasty league 

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35 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

Guys I know this is for completed trades, but this is so big would love to get thoughts before I potentially makes this trade if you'll allow this once 

Give: Zeke

Get: Mike Thomas & 1.12 

12 team PPR dynasty league 

Thomas side.  It's even without the pick. 

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40 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

Guys I know this is for completed trades, but this is so big would love to get thoughts before I potentially makes this trade if you'll allow this once 

Give: Zeke

Get: Mike Thomas & 1.12 

12 team PPR dynasty league 

I posted a completed trade a few days ago  I was not involved that was Zeke for Thomas and a 2020#2.  One of the comments someone made to that trade was something along the lines of despite how high they are on Thomas that Zeke is a 3 down difference making RB and they preferred Zeke, something like that. Anyway that was my thought on that trade and it applies here again. Elliot is a bigger difference maker and the pick does not quite even that up to me.  All that being said that's me and how I view things, I tend to think the consensus opinion would average somewhere to fair to slightly Elliot but close either way.

 

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1 hour ago, ffmail4me said:

Guys I know this is for completed trades, but this is so big would love to get thoughts before I potentially makes this trade if you'll allow this once 

Give: Zeke

Get: Mike Thomas & 1.12 

12 team PPR dynasty league 

Zeke by quite a bit.  Everydown stud RBs are rare and carry FF teams.

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14 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

Guys I know this is for completed trades, but this is so big would love to get thoughts before I potentially makes this trade if you'll allow this once 

Give: Zeke

Get: Mike Thomas & 1.12 

12 team PPR dynasty league 

Zeke for me

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18 hours ago, ILUVBEER99 said:

Zeke by quite a bit.  Everydown stud RBs are rare and carry FF teams.

I would argue that locked in #1 WRs who have elite QBs are also rare and carry fantasy teams.  WRs have longer careers and get injured less frequently too, so you can reasonably expect Thomas to hold his value for longer than Zeke even though he is 2 years older.

Elliott scored 331 PPR points this year.  Thomas scored 319.  I'm not giving up taking a shot at whatever stud WR from this deep WR class is sitting there at 1.12 so that I can change what position my stud player plays to a less advantageous (long term) position.

Edited by kittenmittens

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So I made the trade and hope I did the right move. 12 team PPR 

gave: Zeke, Riddick, Kelvin Benjamin, 3.7

got: Michael Thomas, 1.12, 2.12, Gio Bernard

 

Uodated Roster:

Newton, Trubisky, Dalton

CMC, Guice, Lindsay, AP, Gio, Dion Lewis

Thomas, Cooks, Godwin, Golladay, Kirk, Kirkwood, Quinn, Chad Williams, Treadwell

Howard, Rudolph, Shaheen

Picks 1.7, 1.12, 2.2, 2.7, 2.12

Edited by ffmail4me

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13 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

So I made the trade and hope I did the right move. 12 team PPR 

gave: Zeke, Riddick, Kelvin Benjamin, 3.7

got: Michael Thomas, 1.12, 2.12, Gio Bernard

 

Uodated Roster:

Newton, Trubisky, Dalton

CMC, Guice, Lindsay, AP, Gio, Dion Lewis

Thomas, Cooks, Godwin, Golladay, Kirk, Kirkwood, Quinn, Chad Williams, Treadwell

Howard, Rudolph, Shaheen

Picks 1.7, 1.12, 2.2, 2.7, 2.12

Thomas side :)

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2 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

I would argue that locked in #1 WRs who have elite QBs are also rare and carry fantasy teams.  WRs have longer careers and get injured less frequently too, so you can reasonably expect Thomas to hold his value for longer than Zeke even though he is 2 years older.

Elliott scored 331 PPR points this year.  Thomas scored 319.  I'm not giving up taking a shot at whatever stud WR from this deep WR class is sitting there at 1.12 so that I can change what position my stud player plays to a less advantageous (long term) position.

Yes but what happens when Brees retires?   

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1 minute ago, Boone22 said:

Yes but what happens when Brees retires?   

I guess we don't know.  You could also ask what happens when the Cowboys Oline isn't as good, or when Zeke reaches the 1800 carry mark (or however many touches that make us get concerned about career workload) by the time he is 26.

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12 team PPR

Team A got: Lamar Jackson, Jordan Howard, Hayden Hurst and (2) 2019 1sts

Team B got: Derrius Guice, Duke Johnson, Austin Hooper, 2019 2nd and (2) 2019 4th

Edited by Mimo

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3 minutes ago, Boone22 said:

 

1 minute ago, Mimo said:

12 team PPR

Team A got: Lamar Jackson, Jordan Howard, Hayden Hurst and (2) 2019 1sts

Team B got: Derrius Guice, Duke Johnson, Austin Hooper, 2019 2nd and (2) 2019 4th

To me all depends on where the 1sts are

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2 hours ago, Aunt Jemima said:

FFPC

Gave OJ Howard, Gostkowski, 2020 2nd

Got Brandin Cooks, 2020 3rd

Before the Arians hire I would for sure have preferred OJ Howard in this deal but now  as boring as this sounds just to got to say it seems equitable. For sure makes sense for your team.

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29 minutes ago, Mimo said:

12 team PPR

Team A got: Lamar Jackson, Jordan Howard, Hayden Hurst and (2) 2019 1sts

Team B got: Derrius Guice, Duke Johnson, Austin Hooper, 2019 2nd and (2) 2019 4th

I am taking Howard and 1sts all day every day.

Edited by smbkrypt24

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40 minutes ago, Mimo said:

12 team PPR

Team A got: Lamar Jackson, Jordan Howard, Hayden Hurst and (2) 2019 1sts

Team B got: Derrius Guice, Duke Johnson, Austin Hooper, 2019 2nd and (2) 2019 4th

Guice was worth one first a year ago.  He certainly isn’t worth two now, plus Howard on top.  Hooper doesn’t balance that out even if this was TE premium, which it isn’t stated to be.

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47 minutes ago, Mimo said:

12 team PPR

Team A got: Lamar Jackson, Jordan Howard, Hayden Hurst and (2) 2019 1sts

Team B got: Derrius Guice, Duke Johnson, Austin Hooper, 2019 2nd and (2) 2019 4th

I'll take Guice

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2 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

I guess we don't know.  You could also ask what happens when the Cowboys Oline isn't as good, or when Zeke reaches the 1800 carry mark (or however many touches that make us get concerned about career workload) by the time he is 26.

Your point stands but the Cowboys OL was pretty average overall and at times bad this year.

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