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****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (23 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gottabesweet
- Start date
Matt's Eagles
Footballguy
12 Team PPR
Team A got Melvin Gordon
Team B got Robert Woods
Team A got Melvin Gordon
Team B got Robert Woods
Tau837
Footballguy
Disagree it is not close. Depends on league parameters and roster makeup. If a team is rich at RB and weak at WR, this is a solid trade for Woods. If the reverse situation is true, this is a solid trade for Gordon.
In a vacuum, I'd rather have Woods, but I am down on Gordon more than most.
I get what you're saying regarding team needs, but I'd argue June is not the month to be selling a RB for a WR unless you're getting a more coveted piece back.
Its similar adp now but once hype starts building Gordon's value seems sure to rise, even more so if he has a good game or two early on. Just seems like a deal that will always be on the table and if both players hit their ceiling, Gordon is far more valuable due to the crazy WR depth out there. So for me its an insta-accept if I need a RB and its not something I would offer or take right now regardless of whether I need a receiver.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
ffmail4me
Footballguy
Fair view point for sure, but I should also note I'm high on Irv Smith and 3.3 landed me Gandy-Golden who is also one of my favorite 3rd round sleepers this year. The Redskins don't have a player like him with his height, vertical, and catch radius. Santana Moss (who's still very close to the organization) thinks he's a future star, just loves this kid. I'm all in.
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
12 team PPR.
Gave 2021 2nd
Got Parris Campbell WR, 2021 3rd.
Gave 2021 2nd
Got Parris Campbell WR, 2021 3rd.
Tau837
Footballguy
Encumbrance
Footballguy
Another Gandy-Golden believer! Alright!
eat* Gandy-Golden is athletic enough to do several backflips at 6'4". He runs a 4.6 at that height. I'm excited to see what he can do at the professional level. Several people/analysts called him a Day 1 or 2 pick if he hadn't gone to Liberty.
eta* Never saw this until just now. Almost like a promo teaser. http://www.espn.com/video/clip/clip?id=29087165
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Rockchild
Footballguy
Gordon's value has been low for a while now. Even before his holdout it was difficult to get decent value for him and there are questions about the situation in Denver too. Could he get off to a good start and increase his value? Sure but even then, I would argue, there will be bias against him as he has never been overly valued even though he produced. I made a similar deal a week or so ago netting Woods in the deal. I was happy. The other team was happy. A perfect trade!
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Interesting, hadn't heard this, are you sure? Other than Snyder himself, as far as I'm aware nobody from his time with the team is still around the organization after the great purge finally happened this offseason, with even Snyder's 17-year-long buds Hess and Schaffer gone. I don't recall seeing Moss working out current players, attending training camp practices, doing broadcast stuff on gameday, or even just doing one of those goofy preseason sideline reporter gigs Portis and Smoot have done. (I could definitely be wrong on this stuff which is why I was curious, I'm what I'd consider a knowledgeable fellow skins fan but the gap in my knowledge is definitely the off-field alumni type stuff around the team, it's not stuff I care to follow much once the players are off the roster).ffmail4me said:
Only thing I can think of is if he is close to some area or regional scouts that stuck around under Kyle Smith, but I'm not sure if we have any greybeards in the scouting department that made it all the way through Shanahan, Gruden, and now Rivera. It's possible though bc I do remember Shanahan and then McCloughan basically liking the scouts we had in place after working with them their first off-seasons, and I think Smith hasn't made any sweeping changes there.
It will be interesting to see how he does in Denver. As a Charger fan I thought they really over drafted him. He did play better than I expected, but he never impressed me. To me his production in fantasy has always seemed to be TD dependent. I would be surprised if that changes in Denver, but maybe the scheme change does make a big difference.Rockchild said:
ffmail4me
Footballguy
Encumbrance
Footballguy
I think his argument was a little more nuanced than that. He's seeking to maximize return for Gordon because everybody in the world believes that the Elway/Fangio combo see him as the lead dog and not an RBBC guy. If you give him a few games with TD-dependent scores, you might get more for him, I believe the argument goes.
If not, you can still likely do that deal for Woods during the season because Woods is Woods. I think he's really arguing that Gordon now < Gordon a few weeks in, actually. So he's thinking about the opportunity cost of the trade, not who wins the trade outright.
Encumbrance
Footballguy
And I dealt Gordon in the off-season, too, but it was a future number one, a 2.7, and a handcuff to Kenyan Drake, who I had, so I didn't think I'd get better than that.
I mean I get that but if he plays anything like the “3.8 YPC with fumbling problems who lost his job to a UDFA” guy we saw last year, he will lose work in high leverage situations (like goal line) either to Lindsay or just the passing attack and you won’t even be able to get a WR2 back.
Broncos want to win and the amount they have paid him isn’t ludicrous enough to keep playing him if he is clearly a worse player than Lindsay
Encumbrance
Footballguy
I totally agree with this except for the almost certainty that they're going to give him a few games to lose that job. You might be able to cash in on him then. But there is indeed a risk.
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8 Team 0.5 PPR SF (1 QB, 1 SF, 2 RB, 3 WR, 2 FLEX, 1 TE, 1 D, 1 K)
Somehow last year but came into the offseason with incredible WR depth but serious holes at QB--only having 3 (Dak, Darnold, Daniel Jones)--and RB with Tevin Coleman and Tarik Cohen as my RB2 and RB3 behind Zeke
Gave: Brandin Cooks+2.08 (other guy used it to pick Anthony McFarland)
Got: Derrius Guice
Gave: 1.06 (other guy used for CeeDee Lamb)+1.08 (other guy used for Cam Akers)+2021 1st+Christian Kirk
Got: 1.01 (used it to pick Jonathan Taylor)+Ben Roethlisberger+4.04 (used it to pick Jordan Love)+Parris Campbell
Gave: 49ers Defense+Tevin Coleman+Dallas Goedert
Got: 3.04 (used it to pick Michael Pittman)+2021 2nd
Gave: Dak+Alexander Mattison
Got: Deshaun Watson+2.07 (used it to pick Denzel Mims)+4.08 (used it to pick Antonio Gandy Golden)
Gave: Cooper Kupp
Got: Terry McLaurin+2021 2nd+Sony Michel
Gave: OBJ+1 out of 3 2021 2nds+2022 2nd
Got: 1.02 (used it to pick Clyde Edwards Helaire)+Damien Harris+2022 3rd
Somehow last year but came into the offseason with incredible WR depth but serious holes at QB--only having 3 (Dak, Darnold, Daniel Jones)--and RB with Tevin Coleman and Tarik Cohen as my RB2 and RB3 behind Zeke
Gave: Brandin Cooks+2.08 (other guy used it to pick Anthony McFarland)
Got: Derrius Guice
Gave: 1.06 (other guy used for CeeDee Lamb)+1.08 (other guy used for Cam Akers)+2021 1st+Christian Kirk
Got: 1.01 (used it to pick Jonathan Taylor)+Ben Roethlisberger+4.04 (used it to pick Jordan Love)+Parris Campbell
Gave: 49ers Defense+Tevin Coleman+Dallas Goedert
Got: 3.04 (used it to pick Michael Pittman)+2021 2nd
Gave: Dak+Alexander Mattison
Got: Deshaun Watson+2.07 (used it to pick Denzel Mims)+4.08 (used it to pick Antonio Gandy Golden)
Gave: Cooper Kupp
Got: Terry McLaurin+2021 2nd+Sony Michel
Gave: OBJ+1 out of 3 2021 2nds+2022 2nd
Got: 1.02 (used it to pick Clyde Edwards Helaire)+Damien Harris+2022 3rd
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The argument is two-fold.
1-You can make that deal anytime up until week one and probably get more with training camp buzz as they are clearly planning on giving him a big role
2- I wouldn't flip him at that point because I actually see a two year window for him to produce as an RB1. Hes never been a special back, but he produces when given opportunity and I'm buying this offense in general.
So, whether we see eye to eye on the player, its still not optimal timing if only getting back a guy like Woods. We also disagree on the player. Once he shook the rust off over his first 4 games he was actually VERY productive, finishing weeks 9-17 as the RB7 in ppr for both overall scoring and ppg. And thats on a team who had a better reciving back on the roster, which Denver does not. If he stays healthy he's going to eat. Woods' value will evaporate the minute he stops producing because he is already undervalued and overlooked. And even despite his steady production its fairly easily replaced.
ETA- not to mention RB8, RB5, RB7 the three years prior.
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He was good in fantasy because of volume and TDs.
He was awful in real life though: no other way to describe a 3.8 YPC and fumbling issues. That's fine in the short run but long term an awful, inefficient real life player who costs his team games cannot hold fantasy value because he will lose playing time and opportunity in high leverage situations (goal line, late game, etc). Just like Matt Asiata or Mike Gilislee were not good players just because they could get 20 yards and 2 TDs off 8 carries. Gordon isn't that bad, but while Lindsay isn't elite or a workhorse, he is certainly good and efficient enough to take significant touches a fumbling plodder.
Yes, Woods is already undervalued; but like I said, I think Woods is a good player while Gordon is not anymore. Woods also is due for significant positive TD regression, and a bump in volume with Cooks gone.
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I like it unless you are the Drake owner. A bad first year obviously reduces a WR's chances of hitting but people still give up too easily on rookie WRs/TEs that struggle, especially considering--in this case--that JJAW was known to be a project
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I probably overpaid on some of these but I am a big believer in getting "my guys" even if it means overpaying.
I have seen a lot of Wisconsin RBs annihilate my Huskers, but Taylor is special. I would but stunned if he is not at least a high RB2/back end of the top 15 RB through his rookie deal, and I didn't think Love should have been available in the 4th round in Superflex or Mims/Pittman in the 2nd/3rd so I decided I had to make a move.
CEH was a bit of a homer pick wanting a Chief on my team and "fixing" the conundrum of picking between him and JT at 1.01
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Sure, as I said we disagree on the player. You seem hung up on his ypc while I seem hung up on his production. Still doesn't address the notion of wrong time to sell though.
Encumbrance
Footballguy
Encumbrance
Footballguy
It's weird, though. He doesn't have Anthony Lynn there anymore to give him GL work, but from everything that Fangio and Elway have said, I think he might get the same type of role. I keep deleting things in this thread, but I'm pretty sure I said I traded him this summer. The front office hadn't spoken so deliberately about their plans for him until I'd sold him, and I didn't figure that he was destined for anything but a RBBC with Lindsay. But I also didn't think that Lindsay wasn't their pass-catching back last year, Freeman was. So there won't be a definitive role for him to be subbed out because of.
So we'll see. His fantasy production doesn't hide the notion that he wasn't really that great in San Diego. Will scheme change that? I don't know. Will not seeing stacked boxes and a different line change that? It very well could, and it really better, because with volume being tied to real football prowess and not fantasy production, one could theorize that he'll lose his job by Week 7 or 8. That'd be my take. I've never been high on him. But I could be very wrong.
So we'll see. His fantasy production doesn't hide the notion that he wasn't really that great in San Diego. Will scheme change that? I don't know. Will not seeing stacked boxes and a different line change that? It very well could, and it really better, because with volume being tied to real football prowess and not fantasy production, one could theorize that he'll lose his job by Week 7 or 8. That'd be my take. I've never been high on him. But I could be very wrong.
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As I said: if Gordon plays like he did last year, he is going to lose touches when it matters, and his value will crater even more that it has in the past year--how much of a trade market do you see for 27 year old RBs with a lot of wear and tear who were run off their previous team by a UDFA and also happen to be stuck in a committee with a more efficient back on a pass heavy offense (which the Broncos look like they will be)? They haven't paid him enough that they need to keep riding him if he costs them games with 4th quarter fumbles and 2 yard rushes like he did for the Chargers.
This^ Efficiency is part of production--perhaps less so in fantasy but definitely but definitely in real life. I don't see how that can be debated: unless you also think Matt Asiata and Mike Gilislee's 8 carries for 20 yards and 2 TDs was good production.
To be honest I never saw him as an elite talent. Even when he was running over my Huskers in his college days I didn't see a special talent creating yards--just a guy taking what an incredible offensive line was giving him. Even in his RB1 days I saw an average player with a lot of volume--definitely not a guy who was a Gurley (before he died)/Zeke type talent deserving of being the highest paid RB. And the fact that the Chargers didn't sign him and no team really even made a serious offer to trade for him (the Eagles offered a fifth and pick swap in the 3rd or something like that) tells me the NFL agrees with this view
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I'm not sure why people are saying this trade will still be on the table in-season and Woods value can't go up even when he produces.
Guys like Woods, somewhat older guys that produce, are at their lowest value in the offseason when everyone is rosterbating to the sexy young names on their team and at their highest value in-season when people are actually trying to win games with fantasy points.
Couple that with Woods' likely positive TD regression and Cooks out of the picture and I think Woods will be worth a fair bit more in season when the games are being played than he is right now.
Guys like Woods, somewhat older guys that produce, are at their lowest value in the offseason when everyone is rosterbating to the sexy young names on their team and at their highest value in-season when people are actually trying to win games with fantasy points.
Couple that with Woods' likely positive TD regression and Cooks out of the picture and I think Woods will be worth a fair bit more in season when the games are being played than he is right now.
Encumbrance
Footballguy
I stand corrected. Good point. Woods won't change, but his fantasy GM's opinion of him will once he starts earning points by the fistful.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I will always respect going and getting your guy in this hobby.
But that trade for the 1.01 feels like a massive overpay for a guy who doesn't feel as safe as former, more premium/bluechip 1.01's like Gurley, Zeke, and Barkley.
Edit: Just saw that even with 9 offensive starters and being SF, it is still an 8-teamer. So consolidating makes more sense in that light.
But that trade for the 1.01 feels like a massive overpay for a guy who doesn't feel as safe as former, more premium/bluechip 1.01's like Gurley, Zeke, and Barkley.
Edit: Just saw that even with 9 offensive starters and being SF, it is still an 8-teamer. So consolidating makes more sense in that light.
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Rockchild
Footballguy
Fair enough but what kind of WR do you think you could get for him if he produces? I don't think his value will change all that much in-season. He is one of those players that is nice in your lineup but hard to get value for.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
ppr league. Sent Marquise Brown and 2021 4th for Tyler Boyd
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
I guess I just feel all of this applies to Gordon as well and RBs are much more valuable than WRs, particularly in season. Im fine being in the minority on this one though.
Really hard to say but I imagine there'd be a team(s) struggling with RB production or injuries that is still competitive and at that point just depends who they have.
Anyway, I'll let this die. Just wanted to respond and appreciate the back and forth.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Whut? He fell that far? That's absurd. Nice pick. Love the McLaurin trade as well. The others all looked even and fair to me, too.
northern exposure
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I applies to Gordon as well IF he produces.
I am very confident Woods will come out and pick up where he left off last year if not better with the positive TD regression and Cooks out of town.
I am much more 50/50 on Gordon. If he comes out of the gate and doesn't immediately get the bulk of the work including the goaline carries and much of the passing down work his value is going to drop quickly.
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
You really hate Gordon. He is a good fantasy asset when given the opportunity and Woods is easily replaceable. I'm not high on Gordon at all but he will be a very solid RB2 this year and the hating here is a little much because he is inefficient. He will get carries and a RB2 is worth more in fantasy than a WR2. His window is short though but I agree this trade could have been made later for the same value and possibly could have got more if things broke right.
Birdie048
Footballguy
Pittman at 3.04 in 8 team league = Pick 20 vs ADP of 12-14 is a small drop but with so few teams, might be little need for WR Depth. But at first glance, it was shocking.
Inefficiency isn't a disqualifier for an RB2, but inefficiency AND fumbling problems gets a player on the bench and loses them reps in high leverage situations (goal line/late game). And in general whereas I love getting veteran WRs for cheap I hate trusting an RB coming off his worst season in his late 20s.
I just see a lot more risk in waiting than others seem to.
It probably was. I kicked the tires with my 2 firsts and asked what else I'd need to add. That's what he asked. I asked for a bit of change back with the pick, and he was willing. I am not a huge Ben fan for this year but I did need a QB and Campbell feels like a cheap enough buy considering he was just hurt rather than bad last year. Was also pleased Love fell that far in SF. I get people's reservations but a 1st round QB is a 1st round QB and the trade overall felt like killing two birds (QB and RB needs) with one stone.
In hindsight I should have offered those 3 firsts and Kirk around and see what it could have gotten me--probably a more proven RB/QB
I saw a considerable drop-off in RBs after JT and CEH (and maybe Dobbins--go back and forth on him) in situation and decided to go all in on them. If both hit as RB1s, I should be winning titles for a while. If both miss, a long rebuild is ahead I suppose.
Guys like Chase Claypool and Anthony McFarland went ahead of him--which shocked me. We had been discussing a trade into the 3rd but Pittman falling made me pull the trigger. Surprised he agreed to a deal without me giving up 3.08--which got me Bryan Edwards.
I love Kupp but I don't love the thought of him going up against outside CBs and press/man coverage now with Cooks gone and with QB play last year feels like Terry's floor as long as he is still the number 1
This is definitely part of it but even so there were some weird picks ahead of him
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
Waiting for the first Cook or Mattison trade.
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
battlestar
Footballguy
Just last week i traded Njoku for Mattison in a 12 team PPR Superflex TE Premium. I own Cook. I wonder how that other owner feels about the deal now? I had been trying to get Mattison since last season but his asking price was crazy.
