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***OFFICIAL*** San Diego (?) Chargers 2016 Offseason Thread (1 Viewer)

Just Win Baby

Footballguy
Well, the best thing I can say about the 2015 season is that it's over. Time to move on, starting with this new thread.

 
So, I don't really know how this goes with relocations but are any Chargers fans dropping this team if they leave SD? Or are they still your team and you root from afar?

I've been a Redskins fan living in NE my entire life so that wouldn't be weird to me at all, but I was never a native and my team didn't choose to leave my hometown so I thought maybe others would feel differently.

 
The Chargers fired six coaches today. I believe this is now the current staff after those firings:

Head Coach - Mike McCoy

Offensive Coordinator - Frank Reich
Special Assistant to the Head Coach/Offense - Mark Ridgley
Offensive Line - Joe D'Alessandris
Asst. Offensive Line - Andrew Dees
Quarterbacks - Nick Sirianni
Running Backs - Ollie Wilson
Wide Receivers - Fred Graves
Tight Ends - Pete Metzelaars
Quality Control, Offense - Shane Steichen

Defensive Coordinator - John Pagano
Defensive Line - Don Johnson
Linebackers - Mike Nolan
Asst. Linebackers - Bobby King
Secondary - Ron Milus
Asst. Secondary - Greg Williams
Quality Control, Defense - Chris Shula

Special Teams - Craig Aukerman

Strength and Conditioning - Kent Johnston
Asst. Strength and Conditioning - Rick Lyle

Not sure if this is the entire coaching staff, since the staff seems unbalanced, i.e., 9 offensive coaches (not including McCoy) vs. 7 defensive coaches; assistant OL coach but no assistant DL coach, etc.

Could have been better (if the entire staff was fired) but also could have been worse (if no one on staff was fired).

I get firing Reich (who I thought should have been fired last offseason), and I get the OL and DL coaches, although IMO the DL coach was hampered by poor personnel thanks to Telesco and AJ before him.

But I don't really get the WR and TE coaches. Not saying they were great, but were those really problem areas? IMO you could argue the secondary was a bigger problem area than either WR or TE.

Thoughts?

 
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Chargers free agents:

Do not expect to return:

  • FS Eric Weddle - management clearly doesn't want him back
  • WR Malcom Floyd - will retire
  • C J.D. Walton - roster filler due to injuries
  • RT Jeff Linkenbach - roster filler due to injuries
  • CB Cassius Vaughn - roster filler due to injuries
  • CB Brandian Ross - roster filler due to injuries
  • FS Matt Daniels (RFA) - roster filler due to injuries
Expect to return:

  • QB Kellen Clemens - probably can't afford to downgrade the backup QB, but it isn't an easy position to upgrade, so I expect him back
  • WR Dontrelle Inman (ERFA) - earned a spot on next year's roster
  • G Kenny Wiggins (RFA) - earned another year, assuming no other team signs him to an unexpected offer sheet
  • DE Damion Square (RFA) - Reyes and Lissemore seem like the first 2 DL to go in favor of upgrade; Square could be next, but will they upgrade enough to let 3 players go?
  • SS Jahleel Addae (RFA) - inconsistent performer, but only 25; deserves another year assuming the price is right
Unknown:

  • TE Antonio Gates - seems he does not want to retire; team should move on if he wants a salary close to his $8.4M salary in 2015, but will they?
  • TE Ladarius Green - in line for a raise; will he want to be back after arguably being misused by the Chargers for 2 years? is his potential return tied to Gates, i.e., if Gates is back, does that mean Green is gone?
  • TE John Phillips - not particularly impressive, but could very well be back given the likelihood that Gates and/or Green will be gone
  • TE Asante Cleveland (ERFA) - just claimed off waivers on 12/28, assume he won't be back, but every TE on the roster is a UFA except him
  • FB David Johnson - not effective and should not be back
  • RT Joe Barksdale - probably earned a raise over his $2.1M salary in 2015; will the Chargers give it to him, or will another team offer him more than the Chargers are willing to pay?
  • LT Chris Hairston - was a serviceable backup who could be back
  • G Johnnie Troutman - Troutman was awful in 2014 and made $1.6M this year without playing a down; IMO the Chargers should let him walk
  • DE Kendall Reyes - has been ineffective for years and team should let him walk; upgrading DL should be a major focus of the offseason, which won't leave room for Reyes
  • DT Ricardo Mathews - not as effective this season as last, but could be back due to Chargers extensive problems at the position; Lissemore and Reyes both seem like more likely candidates to go in favor of upgrade; of course, this assumes the price is right
  • CB Patrick Robinson - probably earned a raise over his $2M salary in 2015, but the Chargers seem committed to Flowers and Verrett as starters, and Williams and Mager seem like roster locks; I expect Robinson will find a better combination of salary and opportunity elsewhere, though I'd like to see him return
  • ILB Joe Mays - special teams player who is due for a raise on his 2015 salary of $870K; don't see any reason to believe he is worth that
Other possible departures:

  1. P Mike Scifres - there have been conflicting reports that he will retire; if he doesn't choose to retire, he could be a cap casualty if he isn't willing to restructure; he is good but not worth another season of over $4M
  2. ILB Donald Butler - it would be shocking if he isn't released; his contract is one of the worst in team history, and the defense seemed to play much better with Perryman in for Butler
  3. RB Donald Brown - he is not worth $3.5M and should be gone if Telesco can get over his man crush
  4. DT Sean Lissemore - as mentioned above, IMO he is the second DL to go if Telesco finally tries to upgrade the DL
  5. OLB Melvin Ingram - not sure he is worth nearly $8M next season based on his play to date with the Chargers, but I expect the team will bring him back anyway
I think Chargers fans already knew the OL and DL need significant help and the team needs a top 2 WR, preferably a deep threat. We also knew that losing Weddle would create a hole that will be tough to fill. And we also knew about the Gates/Green situation, but I'm not sure I appreciated before looking at this that all of the TEs on the roster as well as FB Johnson are free agents. That becomes a high priority need, unless at least 2 of the incumbents are re-signed. There are a lot of holes to fill.

Hopefully there will also be organic improvement through improved coaching.

Thoughts?

 
So, I don't really know how this goes with relocations but are any Chargers fans dropping this team if they leave SD? Or are they still your team and you root from afar?

I've been a Redskins fan living in NE my entire life so that wouldn't be weird to me at all, but I was never a native and my team didn't choose to leave my hometown so I thought maybe others would feel differently.
I've been a fan since 1970s, but never lived in San Diego. Really don't like LA, but if they still have Rivers, I'll remain a fan. If they do move, I think they should permanently change the uniforms/insignia back to the LA Chargers Horse and Lightning Bolts and the powder blues.....

 
Chargers free agents:

Do not expect to return:

  • FS Eric Weddle - management clearly doesn't want him back
  • WR Malcom Floyd - will retire
  • C J.D. Walton - roster filler due to injuries
  • RT Jeff Linkenbach - roster filler due to injuries
  • CB Cassius Vaughn - roster filler due to injuries
  • CB Brandian Ross - roster filler due to injuries
  • FS Matt Daniels (RFA) - roster filler due to injuries
Expect to return:

  • QB Kellen Clemens - probably can't afford to downgrade the backup QB, but it isn't an easy position to upgrade, so I expect him back
  • WR Dontrelle Inman (ERFA) - earned a spot on next year's roster
  • G Kenny Wiggins (RFA) - earned another year, assuming no other team signs him to an unexpected offer sheet
  • DE Damion Square (RFA) - Reyes and Lissemore seem like the first 2 DL to go in favor of upgrade; Square could be next, but will they upgrade enough to let 3 players go?
  • SS Jahleel Addae (RFA) - inconsistent performer, but only 25; deserves another year assuming the price is right
Unknown:

  • TE Antonio Gates - seems he does not want to retire; team should move on if he wants a salary close to his $8.4M salary in 2015, but will they?
  • TE Ladarius Green - in line for a raise; will he want to be back after arguably being misused by the Chargers for 2 years? is his potential return tied to Gates, i.e., if Gates is back, does that mean Green is gone?
  • TE John Phillips - not particularly impressive, but could very well be back given the likelihood that Gates and/or Green will be gone
  • TE Asante Cleveland (ERFA) - just claimed off waivers on 12/28, assume he won't be back, but every TE on the roster is a UFA except him
  • FB David Johnson - not effective and should not be back
  • RT Joe Barksdale - probably earned a raise over his $2.1M salary in 2015; will the Chargers give it to him, or will another team offer him more than the Chargers are willing to pay?
  • LT Chris Hairston - was a serviceable backup who could be back
  • G Johnnie Troutman - Troutman was awful in 2014 and made $1.6M this year without playing a down; IMO the Chargers should let him walk
  • DE Kendall Reyes - has been ineffective for years and team should let him walk; upgrading DL should be a major focus of the offseason, which won't leave room for Reyes
  • DT Ricardo Mathews - not as effective this season as last, but could be back due to Chargers extensive problems at the position; Lissemore and Reyes both seem like more likely candidates to go in favor of upgrade; of course, this assumes the price is right
  • CB Patrick Robinson - probably earned a raise over his $2M salary in 2015, but the Chargers seem committed to Flowers and Verrett as starters, and Williams and Mager seem like roster locks; I expect Robinson will find a better combination of salary and opportunity elsewhere, though I'd like to see him return
  • ILB Joe Mays - special teams player who is due for a raise on his 2015 salary of $870K; don't see any reason to believe he is worth that
Other possible departures:

  1. P Mike Scifres - there have been conflicting reports that he will retire; if he doesn't choose to retire, he could be a cap casualty if he isn't willing to restructure; he is good but not worth another season of over $4M
  2. ILB Donald Butler - it would be shocking if he isn't released; his contract is one of the worst in team history, and the defense seemed to play much better with Perryman in for Butler
  3. RB Donald Brown - he is not worth $3.5M and should be gone if Telesco can get over his man crush
  4. DT Sean Lissemore - as mentioned above, IMO he is the second DL to go if Telesco finally tries to upgrade the DL
  5. OLB Melvin Ingram - not sure he is worth nearly $8M next season based on his play to date with the Chargers, but I expect the team will bring him back anyway
I think Chargers fans already knew the OL and DL need significant help and the team needs a top 2 WR, preferably a deep threat. We also knew that losing Weddle would create a hole that will be tough to fill. And we also knew about the Gates/Green situation, but I'm not sure I appreciated before looking at this that all of the TEs on the roster as well as FB Johnson are free agents. That becomes a high priority need, unless at least 2 of the incumbents are re-signed. There are a lot of holes to fill.

Hopefully there will also be organic improvement through improved coaching.

Thoughts?
1. I never was a huge Weddle fan....this year he seemed not to play to his usual self which seemed unprofessional. He got burned on coverage a lot, and he never seems to get the pick.

2. Butler, Brown, and Flower need to be gone....they are atrocious.

3. Get a Good FB and go back to the power I

4. Most most important...the WHOLE conditioning and training staff need to be fired today. For the past 2-3 years, they are always injured more than any team. An O-line player goes down every 10 plays......

5. I have seen several mocks....most with Chargers picking WR Treadwell at 3rd.....

 
How can that much of the coaching staff stil be employed?

As long as they're the Chargers I'll be a fan. If they move and rebrand, I'll probably drop them.

There are so many problems with the roster it's not worth analyzing. Keep Rivers, Perryman, Woodhead, Tyrell Williams, Verett, Attaochu, Allen, Law, Philion, Lambo. Probably Inman and Herndon. I'd say Green too, but he'd be an idiot to return given how they've misused him. The rest are completely replacable.

 
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1. I never was a huge Weddle fan....this year he seemed not to play to his usual self which seemed unprofessional. He got burned on coverage a lot, and he never seems to get the pick.
It seems evident that his unhappiness over not being extended along with the typically poor manner in which the team handled it affected his play this season, but I think the criticism of him was overblown. He was leading the team in tackles for most of the season and seemed to try very hard to play through a tough injury. I'm sure he is gone, and that will definitely free up cap space to be used elsewhere, but it won't be easy to find someone to replace him and play at the level he has played at for the past several seasons.

2. Butler, Brown, and Flower need to be gone....they are atrocious.
Pretty sure the team will not consider releasing Flowers, as it would leave a huge amount of dead cap money. He had one good year and one bad year so far with the team, and, given his salary, they have no choice but to hope he bounces back to his 2014 form going forward.

Agree on Butler and Brown.

4. Most most important...the WHOLE conditioning and training staff need to be fired today. For the past 2-3 years, they are always injured more than any team. An O-line player goes down every 10 plays......
I'm not sure how reliable this data is, in part because the Chargers data surprised me... but this source shows the Chargers having missed 135 player games this season, but 19 teams missed more, including several playoff teams (NE, KC, SEA, WAS, HOU) and a number of other teams who were in playoff contention until the last few weeks. Furthermore, the author attempts to assess the impact of those lost games, and ranks the Chargers #17 in that metric, i.e., 16 other teams lost more value.

I'm sure this data has some issues (e.g., the Chargers seemed to have players playing injured a lot and also going down frequently in game, which would not count as lost games). Still, this suggests that injuries are not really a valid excuse for this terrible season, and I agree with that. IMO a better coaching staff could have gotten better results despite the injuries, and a better GM could have handled the injuries better.

5. I have seen several mocks....most with Chargers picking WR Treadwell at 3rd.....
I don't know anything about Treadwell or really any other players in the draft yet. But I feel it would be a huge mistake to take a WR with the #3 pick. Seriously?

 
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1. I never was a huge Weddle fan....this year he seemed not to play to his usual self which seemed unprofessional. He got burned on coverage a lot, and he never seems to get the pick.
It seems evident that his unhappiness over not being extended along with the typically poor manner in which the team handled it affected his play this season, but I think the criticism of him was overblown. He was leading the team in tackles for most of the season and seemed to try very hard to play through a tough injury. I'm sure he is gone, and that will definitely free up cap space to be used elsewhere, but it won't be easy to find someone to replace him and play at the level he has played at for the past several seasons.
2. Butler, Brown, and Flower need to be gone....they are atrocious.
Pretty sure the team will not consider releasing Flowers, as it would leave a huge amount of dead cap money. He had one good year and one bad year so far with the team, and, given his salary, they have no choice but to hope he bounces back to his 2014 form going forward.Agree on Butler and Brown.

4. Most most important...the WHOLE conditioning and training staff need to be fired today. For the past 2-3 years, they are always injured more than any team. An O-line player goes down every 10 plays......
I'm not sure how reliable this data is, in part because the Chargers data surprised me... but this source shows the Chargers having missed 135 player games this season, but 19 teams missed more, including several playoff teams (NE, KC, SEA, WAS, HOU) and a number of other teams who were in playoff contention until the last few weeks. Furthermore, the author attempts to assess the impact of those lost games, and ranks the Chargers #17 in that metric, i.e., 16 other teams lost more value.I'm sure this data has some issues (e.g., the Chargers seemed to have players playing injured a lot and also going down frequently in game, which would not count as lost games). Still, this suggests that injuries are not really a valid excuse for this terrible season, and I agree with that. IMO a better coaching staff could have gotten better results despite the injuries, and a better GM could have handled the injuries better.

5. I have seen several mocks....most with Chargers picking WR Treadwell at 3rd.....
I don't know anything about Treadwell or really any other players in the draft yet. But I feel it would be a huge mistake to take a WR with the #3 pick. Seriously?
Regarding the injuries, there may be other teams that suffered more but the poor result for the Chargers shines a light on the embarrassing lack of depth. This team is a tear down and if they move to LA we will be rooting for Rivers and a jersey. I also never lived in San Diego but I have a love for the city and have been a fan of the team since the 70s. If they move I'll cheer for Rivers until he retires and then likely will bail until there are new owners who are more deserving of my support.

 
So, I don't really know how this goes with relocations but are any Chargers fans dropping this team if they leave SD? Or are they still your team and you root from afar?
I will never root for any L.A. team. Ever.

That said, I'm not that bent about them leaving.... it's where they came from. Really, I'm not sure if Spanos is even trying to win until he can get the team to L.A. anyway. Telesco was a hail-mary of a hire in the first place that must have been one of the cheapest hires in the league. Can someone remind me at all the quality personnel moves INDY has made over the past.... say, 40+ YEARS since Unitas left? I count three.....

1. They were the worst team in the NFL the year Manning came out.... and made the genius move of drafting him first overall

2. They were the worst team in the NFL the year Luck came out.... and made the genius move of drafting him first overall

3. They hired Dungy

I don't think Telesco had anything to do with the hiring of Dungy. So were we hoping he would nosedive the franchise straight into the ground in the hopes a HOF QB falls in your lap in the draft? Seems to be the direction Telesco is steering the team. It's pretty shocking to me how many positions on this roster don't have NFL caliber players starting. Forget about depth.... they don't even have a starting lineup on either side of the ball. As the record demonstrates pretty clearly.

Watching Spanos "try" to build a SB quality team to bolster local support to keep them in SD is a lot like watching OJ Simpson try to put on that bloody glove.

 
I might spite drop Ladarius Green off my dynasty team if he resigns with SD. Go to NO or GB and become a star.

 
What is Stevie Johnson's status? I have seen most mocks with SD taking a WR in rd 2 and the notes above say WR is a need. I am not so sure. I have always been a fan of Stevie J, Inman has looked good coming in when needed and Allen is coming back from injury. I don't see the need for a high pick to be spent on a WR, esp with the needs at OLine, Dline, SS, etc... Definitely not at #3 overall.

 
What is Stevie Johnson's status? I have seen most mocks with SD taking a WR in rd 2 and the notes above say WR is a need. I am not so sure. I have always been a fan of Stevie J, Inman has looked good coming in when needed and Allen is coming back from injury. I don't see the need for a high pick to be spent on a WR, esp with the needs at OLine, Dline, SS, etc... Definitely not at #3 overall.
IMO Stevie slots in best as the #3 WR, with Allen at #1, and a TBD WR as the #2, ideally someone with more speed who can be a deep threat. Allen and Stevie as the top 2 WRs means 2 possession WRs with very similar skill sets as the top 2 WRs.

This could be semantics, since if their WRs are healthy, the Chargers have typically played a lot of 3 WR sets, meaning Stevie would be on the field a lot regardless. On the other hand, that assumes the Chargers don't change the offense to play more sets with a FB for Gordon going forward. If that happens, the #3 WR snaps will likely be reduced.

 
McCoy gets a 1 year extension.

Why? Apart from me thinking he shouldn't be head coach at all, were they really concerned he might get a big deal from someone else after next season?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - these guys are idiots.

 
McCoy gets a 1 year extension.

Why? Apart from me thinking he shouldn't be head coach at all, were they really concerned he might get a big deal from someone else after next season?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - these guys are idiots.
One reason that has been stated is the need to show prospective assistant coaches that the job is for more than just one year. They now have to hire several assistants. That said, Telesco claimed that wasn't the reason and said it was instead based on merit, which seems laughable.

 
McCoy gets a 1 year extension.

Why? Apart from me thinking he shouldn't be head coach at all, were they really concerned he might get a big deal from someone else after next season?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - these guys are idiots.
One reason that has been stated is the need to show prospective assistant coaches that the job is for more than just one year. They now have to hire several assistants. That said, Telesco claimed that wasn't the reason and said it was instead based on merit, which seems laughable.
Seems like a draw back to me. They should be looking for assistant coaches drooling at the chance of an easy path to the HC job rather than guys who want job security working under McCoy's "leadership." But no, let's lock in the suck for an extra year.

 
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Can someone remind me at all the quality personnel moves INDY has made over the past.... say, 40+ YEARS since Unitas left? I count three.....

1. They were the worst team in the NFL the year Manning came out.... and made the genius move of drafting him first overall

2. They were the worst team in the NFL the year Luck came out.... and made the genius move of drafting him first overall

3. They hired Dungy
Indy had a hell of a good run of first round draft choices from 94 - 04. Not that Telesco had much if anything to do with it, I'm just answering your question since you asked.

94 – Marshall Faulk

95 – Ellis Johnson

96 – Marvin Harrison

97 – Tarik Glenn

98 - Peyton Manning

99 – Edgerrin James

00 – Rob Morris

01 – Reggie Wayne

02 – Dwight Freeney

03 – Dallas Clark

04 – Bob Sanders

 
So, I don't really know how this goes with relocations but are any Chargers fans dropping this team if they leave SD? Or are they still your team and you root from afar?

I've been a Redskins fan living in NE my entire life so that wouldn't be weird to me at all, but I was never a native and my team didn't choose to leave my hometown so I thought maybe others would feel differently.
This is fascinating for me too. I guess it depends on why you are attached to the team. If you are in because they are the SAN DIEGO chargers, you have to give that up. If you love the Chargers then I guess you stick with them. I'm here as a transplant and I love this city like a family member. I would cry if I was forced to leave. It's my home. San Diego means a lot to me. I always root for the Chargers, but they aren't my birth-right team. I don't get pissed when they lose. If they leave, they can go #### themselves. I think it's like if you girlfriend starts cheating on you so you break up. Do you want to stay friends at that point, or do you want to tell her to go #### herself? I'm a "if you don't like me, you must be an idiot, and I don't like idiots, so you can go #### yourself" kind of guy.

What is really crazy for me right now is the local Charger coverage. They filed papers to leave. They want a divorce. I'd drop coverage and stop giving a #### until they crawled back home asking for forgiveness. I just can't take any Charger news seriously until they figure out if they're still the San Diego Chargers or not.

Also weird to me that I don't hear any talk about keeping the Charger brand in San Diego if they leave. If they go to LA I think they should have to rebrand. Keep the Bolts alive in SD for the next round of moves or expansions. LA shouldn't want the Chargers brand anyway. Those are all transplants or Raider (read:Charger haters) or transplants anyway. There isn't a stadium full of Charger fans in LA, imo.

 
.

So, I don't really know how this goes with relocations but are any Chargers fans dropping this team if they leave SD? Or are they still your team and you root from afar?

I've been a Redskins fan living in NE my entire life so that wouldn't be weird to me at all, but I was never a native and my team didn't choose to leave my hometown so I thought maybe others would feel differently.
I don't like Spanos or LA so there isn't much left to root for if they leave.I think they will struggle in LA. They are going to get paired with a much more popular team in a market that already has a ton of sports options. Unless they put together some kind of dynasty they are low team on the totem pole.

 
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I watched the Clemson-Alabama game last night. I think there were at least 5 defensive linemen and at least 3 offensive linemen playing in that game who would start for the Chargers.

 
So the california chargers? The los angeles chargers of inglewood?

As a born in sd person . but living most of my life in detroit. I would say if they keep the helmet n logo and team name i will still root for them. But the business side of sports has turned me off alot.

Stupid city of sd built the padres a new stadium but not the chargers. Dont seem right

 
So the california chargers? The los angeles chargers of inglewood?

As a born in sd person . but living most of my life in detroit. I would say if they keep the helmet n logo and team name i will still root for them. But the business side of sports has turned me off alot.

Stupid city of sd built the padres a new stadium but not the chargers. Dont seem right
At some point you need to decide not to be held hostage by pro sports leagues. I'm pretty disgusted with the NFL overall at this point, so I kind of respect the city of SD for not bending over and taking whatever the NFL dictates. I think, in the long run, leaving SD without an NFL franchise is worse for the NFL than it is for the city. Not that it'll bankrupt the NFL or anything like that, it's just stupid to leave that location vacant as it's an ideal spot for Super Bowls, etc. I imagine SD will become the new boogie man for owners to threaten their current cities with. What a racket.

 
So the california chargers? The los angeles chargers of inglewood?

As a born in sd person . but living most of my life in detroit. I would say if they keep the helmet n logo and team name i will still root for them. But the business side of sports has turned me off alot.

Stupid city of sd built the padres a new stadium but not the chargers. Dont seem right
At some point you need to decide not to be held hostage by pro sports leagues. I'm pretty disgusted with the NFL overall at this point, so I kind of respect the city of SD for not bending over and taking whatever the NFL dictates. I think, in the long run, leaving SD without an NFL franchise is worse for the NFL than it is for the city. Not that it'll bankrupt the NFL or anything like that, it's just stupid to leave that location vacant as it's an ideal spot for Super Bowls, etc. I imagine SD will become the new boogie man for owners to threaten their current cities with. What a racket.
The nfl will never come back to sd. Especially with a new stadium in la

 
So the california chargers? The los angeles chargers of inglewood?

As a born in sd person . but living most of my life in detroit. I would say if they keep the helmet n logo and team name i will still root for them. But the business side of sports has turned me off alot.

Stupid city of sd built the padres a new stadium but not the chargers. Dont seem right
At some point you need to decide not to be held hostage by pro sports leagues. I'm pretty disgusted with the NFL overall at this point, so I kind of respect the city of SD for not bending over and taking whatever the NFL dictates. I think, in the long run, leaving SD without an NFL franchise is worse for the NFL than it is for the city. Not that it'll bankrupt the NFL or anything like that, it's just stupid to leave that location vacant as it's an ideal spot for Super Bowls, etc. I imagine SD will become the new boogie man for owners to threaten their current cities with. What a racket.
The nfl will never come back to sd. Especially with a new stadium in la
I disagree. It's the 17th biggest metropolitan area in the U.S. and the weather is fantastic. The Chargers did fine when both the Rams and Raiders were in Los Angeles.

 
So the california chargers? The los angeles chargers of inglewood?

As a born in sd person . but living most of my life in detroit. I would say if they keep the helmet n logo and team name i will still root for them. But the business side of sports has turned me off alot.

Stupid city of sd built the padres a new stadium but not the chargers. Dont seem right
At some point you need to decide not to be held hostage by pro sports leagues. I'm pretty disgusted with the NFL overall at this point, so I kind of respect the city of SD for not bending over and taking whatever the NFL dictates. I think, in the long run, leaving SD without an NFL franchise is worse for the NFL than it is for the city. Not that it'll bankrupt the NFL or anything like that, it's just stupid to leave that location vacant as it's an ideal spot for Super Bowls, etc. I imagine SD will become the new boogie man for owners to threaten their current cities with. What a racket.
The nfl will never come back to sd. Especially with a new stadium in la
I disagree. It's the 17th biggest metropolitan area in the U.S. and the weather is fantastic. The Chargers did fine when both the Rams and Raiders were in Los Angeles.
Its taken how many years to get back to the 2nd largest market in the US? And you think the 17th without a stadium is going to get a team? I wouldnt use the word never but I can't see going back to SDm anytime soon. The NBA hasnt. MLS and the NHL havent entertained it. IS there an MLB team still there? (kidding on mlb). When did they host the SB last?

However, it does sound like the cities are actually finally calling the NFL's LA Bluff and making them live up to the threat.

 
B Maverick said:
Gr00vus said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Gr00vus said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
So the california chargers? The los angeles chargers of inglewood?

As a born in sd person . but living most of my life in detroit. I would say if they keep the helmet n logo and team name i will still root for them. But the business side of sports has turned me off alot.

Stupid city of sd built the padres a new stadium but not the chargers. Dont seem right
At some point you need to decide not to be held hostage by pro sports leagues. I'm pretty disgusted with the NFL overall at this point, so I kind of respect the city of SD for not bending over and taking whatever the NFL dictates. I think, in the long run, leaving SD without an NFL franchise is worse for the NFL than it is for the city. Not that it'll bankrupt the NFL or anything like that, it's just stupid to leave that location vacant as it's an ideal spot for Super Bowls, etc. I imagine SD will become the new boogie man for owners to threaten their current cities with. What a racket.
The nfl will never come back to sd. Especially with a new stadium in la
I disagree. It's the 17th biggest metropolitan area in the U.S. and the weather is fantastic. The Chargers did fine when both the Rams and Raiders were in Los Angeles.
Its taken how many years to get back to the 2nd largest market in the US? And you think the 17th without a stadium is going to get a team? I wouldnt use the word never but I can't see going back to SDm anytime soon. The NBA hasnt. MLS and the NHL havent entertained it. IS there an MLB team still there? (kidding on mlb). When did they host the SB last?

However, it does sound like the cities are actually finally calling the NFL's LA Bluff and making them live up to the threat.
Thats not whats happening. The owners want more money. A stadium is coming to la and two teams with it.

 
REPORT: Chargers get approval to join Rams in L.A.

The San Diego Chargers have been given permission, along with the St. Louis Rams, to move to Los Angeles. However, the Chargers' approval may hold some restrictions.

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The #Rams back to L.A. is done. Wherhe the #Chargers join them now or later only question

— Vincent Bonsignore (@DailyNewsVinny) January 13, 2016
So, it's done....right? Finally?

Not a chance.

It's over for the Rams, and it's over for St. Louis. Hell, it might even be over for the Oakland Raiders, but they'll likely get some sort of payout for being the odd team out.

For the Chargers, it sounds as though they'll be asked to come back and work on a deal with the city of San Diego. They'll try to get a stadium deal done (and they have reportedly already decided on Cory Briggs' citizens initiative and a downtown NFL stadium) in San Diego, with their fallback option being that they could join Stan Kroenke and the Rams in Inglewood.

This eliminates the issue of finding more than one temporary venue, and it gives San Diego the time to get a deal/vote done without the Chargers losing negotiating leverage.

Stay tuned for more as it comes in.

This is probably a best-case scenario, although it means at least another year of harsh public negotiations between Mark Fabiani and Mayor Kevin Faulconer. Before you scream, remember that it also probably means Philip Rivers is a "San Diego Charger" next year and probably for the remainder of his contract.
 
Spanos would save the $550M relocation fee if he does not relocate. And given all the talk of a golden parachute for the team that doesn't relocate, I've been wondering why it hasn't come up that Spanos could elect to stay, avoid having to partner with Kroenke, which he reportedly does not want, let Davis become Kroenke's tenant, and get that golden parachute.

Who knows exactly how much that parachute is worth, but it could be a total swing for Spanos of $750M to $1B. He could afford to put a few hundred million into a plan with the city and pocket the rest and still end up with a beautiful state of the art stadium without leaving, increasing his revenue stream and the value of the franchise.

It seems like a win for San Diego and Spanos, were it not for Fabiani's scorched earth campaign over the past year. But I suppose if they negotiate a deal with San Diego, Fabiani can go away or into the background, and he was really the villain in the whole scenario. My guess is that Chargers fans would mostly let bygones be bygones.

 
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I thought I heard Godell say the Raiders and Chargers would get 100M each from the league to help with new stadiums if they stayed in place. Is that right?

Seems like the decision is really trying to convince the Chargers to stay in SD. You're right JWB, they should fire Fabiani right now and get to work on a real deal. A new stadium in downtown SD would be a win win for just about everyone I think.

 
I thought I heard Godell say the Raiders and Chargers would get 100M each from the league to help with new stadiums if they stayed in place. Is that right?

Seems like the decision is really trying to convince the Chargers to stay in SD. You're right JWB, they should fire Fabiani right now and get to work on a real deal. A new stadium in downtown SD would be a win win for just about everyone I think.
$100M is a drop in the bucket really. I can't see a stadium being built for under $1.5B.

Every little bit helps, but the city and the Chargers are still pretty far apart.

 
I thought I heard Godell say the Raiders and Chargers would get 100M each from the league to help with new stadiums if they stayed in place. Is that right?

Seems like the decision is really trying to convince the Chargers to stay in SD. You're right JWB, they should fire Fabiani right now and get to work on a real deal. A new stadium in downtown SD would be a win win for just about everyone I think.
$100M is a drop in the bucket really. I can't see a stadium being built for under $1.5B.

Every little bit helps, but the city and the Chargers are still pretty far apart.
Agree, $100M is not as much of a golden parachute as I thought it might be.

One way to look at this is to assess the value of the Chargers franchise in each of these scenarios:

1. Stay in SD. Get $100M from NFL in addition to the other expected sources. Do not pay $550M relocation fee. Build new ~$1.5B stadium and continue to play in Qualcomm in the interim.

2. Move to LA and become Kroenke's tenant. Pay $550M relocation fee and $1/year to lease the stadium for gamedays.

3. Move to LA and become Kroenke's partner in $2.6B stadium development project. Pay $550M relocation fee and split the $2.6B in some manner. Play in the Coliseum for 2-3 years and then share increased revenues from completed stadium project based on the split invested.

It seems to me that #2 generates the least revenue and the least additional franchise value. It has all the downside of partnering with Kroenke with little upside.

#3 offers the potential for the most added revenue and franchise value, but reportedly Spanos doesn't have the money for it, at least not for more than a trivial stake in the project. Even a 10% stake would mean he would have to come up with more than $800M, and Kroenke would obviously still have the upper hand in the partnership in anything less than a 50/50 split.

#1 seems to make the most sense, even after all this wasted time, effort, and bashing of the city's politicians. He would get his own brand new state of the art stadium in a great city and likely a beautiful setting downtown. And it will likely cost him less money than either of the other options. Plus, he gets to fire Fabiani.

 
Agree, $100M is not as much of a golden parachute as I thought it might be.

One way to look at this is to assess the value of the Chargers franchise in each of these scenarios:

1. Stay in SD. Get $100M from NFL in addition to the other expected sources. Do not pay $550M relocation fee. Build new ~$1.5B stadium and continue to play in Qualcomm in the interim.

2. Move to LA and become Kroenke's tenant. Pay $550M relocation fee and $1/year to lease the stadium for gamedays.

3. Move to LA and become Kroenke's partner in $2.6B stadium development project. Pay $550M relocation fee and split the $2.6B in some manner. Play in the Coliseum for 2-3 years and then share increased revenues from completed stadium project based on the split invested.

It seems to me that #2 generates the least revenue and the least additional franchise value. It has all the downside of partnering with Kroenke with little upside.

#3 offers the potential for the most added revenue and franchise value, but reportedly Spanos doesn't have the money for it, at least not for more than a trivial stake in the project. Even a 10% stake would mean he would have to come up with more than $800M, and Kroenke would obviously still have the upper hand in the partnership in anything less than a 50/50 split.

#1 seems to make the most sense, even after all this wasted time, effort, and bashing of the city's politicians. He would get his own brand new state of the art stadium in a great city and likely a beautiful setting downtown. And it will likely cost him less money than either of the other options. Plus, he gets to fire Fabiani.
If Spanos wanted to build a stadium he already would have. The $100M isn't much when he would have to build a $1.5b stadium.

$550M seems like a lot for the lousy deal to become a tenant in another city, but he'll get a state of the art stadium that he doesn't have in San Diego.

 
Being he second tennant under kroenke is gonn blow

Good luck dean. No one will come watch ur team play. And u will move again
Why would the stadium ownership situation matter to fans?
Im guessing existing sd fans won be travelling up to la to see then play. And sd will be competing with the rams for locate ticket sales. Who do u think the locals will pay to see?They would of been second tennat to the raiders as well. I just dont think this deal works for the chargers.

 
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Being he second tennant under kroenke is gonn blow

Good luck dean. No one will come watch ur team play. And u will move again
Why would the stadium ownership situation matter to fans?
Im guessing existing sd fans won be travelling up to la to see then play. And sd will be competing with the rams for locate ticket sales. Who do u think the locals will pay to see?
The team with the better record.

 
Agree, $100M is not as much of a golden parachute as I thought it might be.

One way to look at this is to assess the value of the Chargers franchise in each of these scenarios:

1. Stay in SD. Get $100M from NFL in addition to the other expected sources. Do not pay $550M relocation fee. Build new ~$1.5B stadium and continue to play in Qualcomm in the interim.

2. Move to LA and become Kroenke's tenant. Pay $550M relocation fee and $1/year to lease the stadium for gamedays.

3. Move to LA and become Kroenke's partner in $2.6B stadium development project. Pay $550M relocation fee and split the $2.6B in some manner. Play in the Coliseum for 2-3 years and then share increased revenues from completed stadium project based on the split invested.

It seems to me that #2 generates the least revenue and the least additional franchise value. It has all the downside of partnering with Kroenke with little upside.

#3 offers the potential for the most added revenue and franchise value, but reportedly Spanos doesn't have the money for it, at least not for more than a trivial stake in the project. Even a 10% stake would mean he would have to come up with more than $800M, and Kroenke would obviously still have the upper hand in the partnership in anything less than a 50/50 split.

#1 seems to make the most sense, even after all this wasted time, effort, and bashing of the city's politicians. He would get his own brand new state of the art stadium in a great city and likely a beautiful setting downtown. And it will likely cost him less money than either of the other options. Plus, he gets to fire Fabiani.
If Spanos wanted to build a stadium he already would have. The $100M isn't much when he would have to build a $1.5b stadium.

$550M seems like a lot for the lousy deal to become a tenant in another city, but he'll get a state of the art stadium that he doesn't have in San Diego.
The $1.5B stadium wouldn't be out of his pocket. Previous estimates were that a Mission Valley stadium would cost ~$1B, which could break down something like this:

  • $250M City/county (property sale?)
  • $200M NFL G4 stadium loan
  • $150M PSLs
  • $200M Naming rights
  • $175M Luxury suites
  • $25M Other (e.g., advertising, corporate sponsorships, parking, etc.)
That breakdown is with Spanos not putting in a dime. Some might argue whether or not San Diego would support $300M in PSLs and naming rights, but it certainly wouldn't be zero. Any gap there would have to be made up by the city/county, or, gasp, an actual Spanos contribution.

The city's official proposal was for $1.1B, broken down as follows:

  • $362.5M Chargers
  • $350M City/county (cash and bonds)
  • $200M NFL G4 stadium loan
  • $187.5M PSLs
This breakdown seems to leave the naming rights and luxury suite sales to the Chargers, so that could easily cover the Chargers $362.5M, or at least a huge part of it. The PSL sales revenue here seems too high.

IMO $1.1B was too low for a true state of the art stadium today, especially downtown. Call it $1.5B and it could break down like this:

  • $200M Chargers (they have offered this much previously, though they may have done so already assuming they would cover it through other items on this list, e.g., naming rights and luxury suites)
  • $200M NFL G4 stadium loan
  • $100M NFL incentive
  • $200M Naming rights
  • $125M PSLs (more reasonable IMO)
  • $175M Luxury suites
  • $475M City/county (cash, bonds, property sale?, tax?)
  • $25M Other (e.g., advertising, corporate sponsorships, parking, etc.)
Again, any gap in PSLs/naming rights/other would have to fall to city/county and/or Spanos. The challenges on this breakdown is whether or not the city/county can come up with $125M more than they proposed originally and whether or not Spanos would put up $200M independent of the other items on the list. This breakdown shows Spanos contributing $200M, but compare that to paying $550M to be a tenant of Kroenke and get a (presumably) reduced revenue stream.

Seems like this is doable and results in the best outcome for Spanos.

 
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Nice breakdown. My comments are:

- Spanos would still have to pay $375M (still responsible for the $200M NFL loan)

- PSL/naming rights probably a little high

- tough to get the city/county to put in $500M

That said, I agree with the premise that it makes more sense for Spanos to keep the Chargers in SD if building the stadium is going to cost him less (or even not much more than) the $550M to move the team to Los Angeles. Technically, Los Angeles is a bigger market but when they have to split it with the Rams while also alienating hard core SD fans I don't think it's worth it.

 
The other thing that isn't discussed much is the Alex Spanos estate tax problem.

The patriarch of the Spanos family, Alex, turns 92 in September and suffers from dementia. Without being mean-spirited, it's fair to say the family has to start making plans for how to handle his passing. Considering that Alex Spanos and his wife owns the controlling stake in the franchise (37%) the family will be on the hook for estate taxes on that part of the franchise. The Chargers, according to Forbes, are valued at $995 million (as of August 2014). This means the Spanos family is paying estate taxes on approximately $370 million when Alex passes away (if the ownership stake is transferred to the rest of the family). I'm no tax expert, but according to the rates listed here, I'd suggest this is roughly equivalent to $147 million.
I don't know if they have solved that problem somehow, but combining this with the undesirable choices Spanos is now left with could be good rationale for him to consider selling the team. Then another owner would be stuck with this problem. And a new owner might be very willing to negotiate with San Diego in good faith for a new stadium.

 
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Back to football:

  • TE Ladarius Green - in line for a raise; will he want to be back after arguably being misused by the Chargers for 2 years? is his potential return tied to Gates, i.e., if Gates is back, does that mean Green is gone?
If Green leaves and turns into a stud somewhere else I will be pissed.

 
Back to football:

  • TE Ladarius Green - in line for a raise; will he want to be back after arguably being misused by the Chargers for 2 years? is his potential return tied to Gates, i.e., if Gates is back, does that mean Green is gone?
If Green leaves and turns into a stud somewhere else I will be pissed.
Given that they gave McCoy and extension, I think Green would be crazy to stay given McCoy's seeming unwillingness to make Green a bigger part of the offense even when Gates was out. Maybe that was all Frank Reich and McCoy will be able to sell Green that it'll be different now. Imagine Green in New Orleans for instance.

 
The Chargers fired six coaches today. I believe this is now the current staff after those firings:

Head Coach - Mike McCoy

Offensive Coordinator - Frank Reich Ken Whisenhunt
Special Assistant to the Head Coach/Offense - Mark Ridgley
Offensive Line - Joe D'Alessandris
Asst. Offensive Line - Andrew Dees
Quarterbacks - Nick Sirianni
Running Backs - Ollie Wilson
Wide Receivers - Fred Graves
Tight Ends - Pete Metzelaars
Quality Control, Offense - Shane Steichen

Defensive Coordinator - John Pagano
Defensive Line - Don Johnson
Linebackers - Mike Nolan Bob Babich
Asst. Linebackers - Bobby King
Secondary - Ron Milus
Asst. Secondary - Greg Williams
Quality Control, Defense - Chris Shula

Special Teams - Craig Aukerman

Strength and Conditioning - Kent Johnston
Asst. Strength and Conditioning - Rick Lyle

Not sure if this is the entire coaching staff, since the staff seems unbalanced, i.e., 9 offensive coaches (not including McCoy) vs. 7 defensive coaches; assistant OL coach but no assistant DL coach, etc.

Could have been better (if the entire staff was fired) but also could have been worse (if no one on staff was fired).

I get firing Reich (who I thought should have been fired last offseason), and I get the OL and DL coaches, although IMO the DL coach was hampered by poor personnel thanks to Telesco and AJ before him.

But I don't really get the WR and TE coaches. Not saying they were great, but were those really problem areas? IMO you could argue the secondary was a bigger problem area than either WR or TE.

Thoughts?
Mike Nolan out, Whisenhunt and Babich in. On the surface, these look like two good hires, though it isn't clear if Nolan to Babich is an upgrade, downgrade, or neutral move.

Immediate reaction may be to assume Whisenhunt can recreate the 2013 offensive success, and I hope he can. But he has different OL, WRs, and RBs (and maybe TEs) to work with, along with a head coach on the hot seat. It will be interesting to see how much difference those things make.

 
Also:

The team also signed a player. CFL standout Dexter McCoil (6'4" 220lbs) is listed as an ILB and agreed to terms that have not yet been released. He was the CFL's "Most Outstanding Rookie" in 2014 with 67 tackles, 4 sacks, and 6 interceptions (3 of them he brought back for TD's). His college ball was at Tulsa where he amassed 318 tackles, 18 interceptions, and 43 passes defended as a safety. He will likely be given the chance to fill the role of shadowing the TE that Eric Weddle performed, but in a bigger package.
 
pagano need to go
I think it's pretty clear he is going nowhere. They fired 6 coaches in one day, and he wasn't among them. I agree, IMO he should be fired, but I don't think it will happen. Not sure if he was kept on merit or for appearances, i.e., how does it look if both coordinators and most offensive and defensive coaches are fired but the head coach isn't? How does that make sense? I suspect that influenced the decision-making.

 
Two home games I'm planning to go to next year:

- Brees likely playing in SD for the last time

- Mariota

 
Being he second tennant under kroenke is gonn blow

Good luck dean. No one will come watch ur team play. And u will move again
Why would the stadium ownership situation matter to fans?
Im guessing existing sd fans won be travelling up to la to see then play. And sd will be competing with the rams for locate ticket sales. Who do u think the locals will pay to see?
The team with the better record.
From the Sports Business Journal, Sam Farmer of the L.A. Times on this issue:

Q: Do the Chargers follow the Rams?Farmer: Logically yes, although I hope the Chargers think long and hard about that. Los Angeles feels like a one-team market right now, and they would unquestionably be the second team in the city -- a distant second -- because it's pretty clear that the Rams are king. San Diego is a very attractive market. If the Chargers can possibly work something out in San Diego, I think it would be great for the NFL. If San Diego is vacated, it automatically becomes the most attractive market for a team that might want to move. Hopefully the Chargers and the city of San Diego can put their differences aside and work out a deal, but I think the likelihood is probably greater right now that Dean Spanos agrees to a partnership with Stan Kroenke.
 

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