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Rooney rule discussion (1 Viewer)

Snorkelson

Footballguy
Look at the first interview for the teams with hc/gm vacancies and the first interviews- staley, teryl Austin, the bills coach, Martin Mayhew, etc. none of these coaches have left with an offer or any seemingly serious consideration as a 1st choice, yet they all have been the first interview at a number of jobs. It's a "let's get this out of the way" kind of feel, and it's so obvious that it make a mockery out of the rule. If the bucswant to promote dirk koetter, they should be able to. Austin may get a hc job, but I think it will be later in the hiring cycle before he gets an offer. I'm all for bringing equality to the front offices of the nfl but I think the Rooney rule is missing that mark.

Title Edit

 
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Look at the first interview for the teams with hc/gm vacancies and the first interviews- staley, teryl Austin, the bills coach, Martin Mayhew, etc. none of these coaches have left with an offer or any seemingly serious consideration as a 1st choice, yet they all have been the first interview at a number of jobs. It's a "let's get this out of the way" kind of feel, and it's so obvious that it make a mockery out of the rule. If the bucswant to promote dirk koetter, they should be able to. Austin may get a hc job, but I think it will be later in the hiring cycle before he gets an offer. I'm all for bringing equality to the front offices of the nfl but I think the Rooney rule is missing that mark.
While you could probably argue that the rule is no longer necessary, you don't seem to have a clear grasp on the purpose of the rule.

 
Yup I agree. Understand what they were trying to do. But teams clearly have figured out the loopholes of easily getting around it.

 
Yup I agree. Understand what they were trying to do. But teams clearly have figured out the loopholes of easily getting around it.
...as long as they are giving exposure and interviewing experience to a minority candidate (which they are even if you want to call it a "token" interview) than that's not a loophole, it's the SOLE PURPOSE of the rule in the first place.

 
Agree with what Rooney was trying to do, just think it's pretty obvious that it needs some revisiting. It's just so blatant that teams are getting it out if te way early in the search. Whether it's a "company man" (staley) or a guy who deserves a real shot (Austin) or a guy that oversaw the lions front office (really? You want Mayhew?) it seems like these interviews are largely to simply satisfy te rule

 
Yup I agree. Understand what they were trying to do. But teams clearly have figured out the loopholes of easily getting around it.
...as long as they are giving exposure and interviewing experience to a minority candidate (which they are even if you want to call it a "token" interview) than that's not a loophole, it's the SOLE PURPOSE of the rule in the first place.
Sure, but are these guys getting interviews to satisfy the rule or are the teams actually interested in finding out more about them?

 
Look at the first interview for the teams with hc/gm vacancies and the first interviews- staley, teryl Austin, the bills coach, Martin Mayhew, etc. none of these coaches have left with an offer or any seemingly serious consideration as a 1st choice, yet they all have been the first interview at a number of jobs. It's a "let's get this out of the way" kind of feel, and it's so obvious that it make a mockery out of the rule. If the bucswant to promote dirk koetter, they should be able to. Austin may get a hc job, but I think it will be later in the hiring cycle before he gets an offer. I'm all for bringing equality to the front offices of the nfl but I think the Rooney rule is missing that mark.
It always seems that way. While Lovie and Dungy and some others have come out and said they bombed interviews, were surprised by the Qs, and glad they had these.

Duce as a HC, really? Did I miss his RBs playing super well and worthy of a promotion? but if he is like them and needed to see the process and an up N comer, well he'll be glad he did this in a few years then.

Mayhew is lucky to have a job. How do you keep your GM job when your team is 0-16? That in and of itself would make me want to interview him to see what was so redeeming about him that they kept him. That was 2008 or 2009 but it's still a curious thing.

I agree re Koetter but the rule has been there forever. I find it more annoying Miami and Ten couldn't just have hired Mularkey and Campbell but would have had to do these interviews. Not that either team seems to want their interim guy but they had the job temporarily. It's just a title change.

Austin and Mayhew...what's with Lions guys being coveted? Did I miss them winning the Supe? Did Mayhew nail a bunch of picks? Austin's D real impressive? I'm not understanding what's with the Lion love out there

 
It's a private business that has incurred this rule. I think it's a fine rule, especially when you look at the number of black or minority players as a whole in the NFL. There are going to be years when a high quality minority candidate doesn't exist but that doesn't mean it isn't helpful. For instance Staley. Maybe ownership or management does view him as a potential future head coach but don't think he's ready now, when he goes to do his interview he'll see the whole spectrum of what is expected from the top of the organization, or maybe he is that impressive (think Tomlin over Whisenhunt). In any case the NFL has done far better than the MLB recycling Dusty Baker or the NBA recycling Byron Scott.

 
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I agree re Koetter but the rule has been there forever. I find it more annoying Miami and Ten couldn't just have hired Mularkey and Campbell but would have had to do these interviews. Not that either team seems to want their interim guy but they had the job temporarily. It's just a title change.
Maybe I'm wrong but I do believe a team can remove the "interim" tag and just make a guy the HC without having to interview a minority candidate first.

 
Yup I agree. Understand what they were trying to do. But teams clearly have figured out the loopholes of easily getting around it.
...as long as they are giving exposure and interviewing experience to a minority candidate (which they are even if you want to call it a "token" interview) than that's not a loophole, it's the SOLE PURPOSE of the rule in the first place.
Sure, but are these guys getting interviews to satisfy the rule or are the teams actually interested in finding out more about them?
I'm sure in most cases that the team does at least have some minimum interest in finding out more about them but once again that's not the point. Just "satisfying" the rule achieves the purpose of the rule.

I'd say one thing that does definitely need tweaking is if a team fired a HC and just wanted to promote some one on the staff (i.e. Dirk Koetter) the rule shouldn't come into play and a team should be allowed to do that.

 
Yup I agree. Understand what they were trying to do. But teams clearly have figured out the loopholes of easily getting around it.
As they should! They need to hire who they want and who they think will be the best for their team! They shouldn't hire anyone just because he is white, black or Mexican......

 
It does the complete opposite of what it is intended. It does not make black or latino coaches more likely candidates qualified or not, it would almost be embarrassing to be the "token" black guy being interviewed to circumvent a rule knowing they may not seriously consider them.

What happens if every black coach denies an interview, I would like to see the fallout from that if they all took a stand against the mockery the league makes of them.

The league again trying to get it right but did it all wrong.

 
The elephant in the room, of course, is why there hasn't been one single female candidate interviewed in the league's entire history!

Some minorities are more minor than others...

 
The league is made up of a lot of African American players and they also make up a good chunk of the fan base. The Rooneys wanted to make more folks aware of the problem or issue of African Americans in the front office and it is working.

I agree though that we need to re-visit the process and what is happening. I do not like teams feeling forced to hire certain coaches based on skin color but then again I'm not black except when I wear my mask.

And I'm only trying to say that we still live in a society where a black man calls on the phone for a job opening and a white GM answers, figures out the caller is black and will say things like the position is filled. That still happens and I have seen it with my own eyes/ears.

Just be cautious if you are not African American, it's easy to paint in broad strokes. Chris Rock said that even with his money most whites would not want to be him. Let's not get going down the wrong path here. In theory I believe most like the idea of a fair and level playing field.

 
Snorkelson, on 07 Jan 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:Look at the first interview for the teams with hc/gm vacancies and the first interviews- staley, teryl Austin, the bills coach, Martin Mayhew, etc. none of these coaches have left with an offer or any seemingly serious consideration as a 1st choice, yet they all have been the first interview at a number of jobs. It's a "let's get this out of the way" kind of feel, and it's so obvious that it make a mockery out of the rule. If the bucswant to promote dirk koetter, they should be able to. Austin may get a hc job, but I think it will be later in the hiring cycle before he gets an offer. I'm all for bringing equality to the front offices of the nfl but I think the Rooney rule is missing that mark.
Be shocked if Mayhew gets another GM job after his drafting record with the Lions.

 
The elephant in the room, of course, is why there hasn't been one single female candidate interviewed in the league's entire history!

Some minorities are more minor than others...
The league needs more estrogen.

Female Refs-I saw one

Asst coaches, Head Coaches, Miami has Dawn Aponte in their front office, you can look her up.

Female QBs, we need more female presence in the league, I agree.

First thing they need to do is get more male cheerleaders, what's up with that?

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/what-up-with-that-christmas-spectacular/n30776

 
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What happens if every black coach denies an interview,
They would never get a HC job?

Would that "mockery" also apply to the black head coaches that actually got hired as HCs?
Huh? You are missing the point of what I said and my nuance. Problem with discussing things like this online is that people always come prepared to fight and put words in peoples mouths they didnt say to deflect from the point.

Clearly they wouldnt get a job, but the point of a protest like that, that speaks a certain volume is a bigger issue. I am not a black man so I cant say from experience but I would assume, going to an interview of a job you know you are not going to get and only got an interview because you're black seems like a different kind of racism. I'm not saying any coach is not being considered, but it just seems as if some are not.

 
What happens if every black coach denies an interview,
They would never get a HC job?

Would that "mockery" also apply to the black head coaches that actually got hired as HCs?
Huh? You are missing the point of what I said and my nuance. Problem with discussing things like this online is that people always come prepared to fight and put words in peoples mouths they didnt say to deflect from the point.

Clearly they wouldnt get a job, but the point of a protest like that, that speaks a certain volume is a bigger issue. I am not a black man so I cant say from experience but I would assume, going to an interview of a job you know you are not going to get and only got an interview because you're black seems like a different kind of racism. I'm not saying any coach is not being considered, but it just seems as if some are not.
Once again the point of the rule is to get minority HCs exposure and experience interviewing - and heck sometimes they'll impress enough to actually be given the job.

What exactly would they be protesting? I only the rarest of cases do they have no shot at impressing enough to get serious consideration. (i.e the current TB situation, if true the Lovie was fired because they want to give the job to Koetter)

You seem to think these candidates are being harmed in some way. Please explain how?

 
Bucs are getting smarter I guess. Fire Lovie before Detroit fires Caldwell. Now if the Lions fire Caldwell, everyone will focus on them. Genius!

 
Of course teams are going to satisfy minimum requirements first. What happens if they interview a Chinese gentleman first and decide he's their guy and word leaks before the Rooney Rule is satisfied? That would be a mockery of the rule.

 
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It makes sense to interview a black guy very early on to satisfy the rule. What if the coach you really targeted is interview #1 and you don't want to let him walk out the room without hiring him because he has another one scheduled the next day with another team? You can't hire him because you didn't interview a black guy yet.

Black coaches do get hired. The rule is working fine. I have yet to hear a way to improve on it. Anyone offering up one?

 
It makes sense to interview a black guy very early on to satisfy the rule. What if the coach you really targeted is interview #1 and you don't want to let him walk out the room without hiring him because he has another one scheduled the next day with another team? You can't hire him because you didn't interview a black guy yet.

Black coaches do get hired. The rule is working fine. I have yet to hear a way to improve on it. Anyone offering up one?
Yes..Interview and hire whoever you feel is the best candidate regardless of color.

 
How many minority HCs before the rule and how many since?
Tony Dungy was the first I think which is why they should stop playing games and put him in the HoF already. He ruled with the Tampa-2 for a long time.

It took until 1996 for the NFL to hire a minority head coach.

In the last 5-7 years there have been a lot.

2003 rule went into place...Marvin Lewis also was already coaching Cinci.

 
It makes sense to interview a black guy very early on to satisfy the rule. What if the coach you really targeted is interview #1 and you don't want to let him walk out the room without hiring him because he has another one scheduled the next day with another team? You can't hire him because you didn't interview a black guy yet.

Black coaches do get hired. The rule is working fine. I have yet to hear a way to improve on it. Anyone offering up one?
Yes..Interview and hire whoever you feel is the best candidate regardless of color.
They are never going to go backwards.

 
I agree re Koetter but the rule has been there forever. I find it more annoying Miami and Ten couldn't just have hired Mularkey and Campbell but would have had to do these interviews. Not that either team seems to want their interim guy but they had the job temporarily. It's just a title change.
Maybe I'm wrong but I do believe a team can remove the "interim" tag and just make a guy the HC without having to interview a minority candidate first.
Nope. A few TEN reporters discussed this recently on twitter and the radio

 
Can someone please explain to me how they are embarrased that someone else has to go through a hiring process? Why does this upset you? I don't get it?

In many cases it's a sham, who cares? Does it impact you in anyway, even trivial stuff as a fan?

 
How many minority HCs before the rule and how many since?
Tony Dungy was the first I think which is why they should stop playing games and put him in the HoF already. He ruled with the Tampa-2 for a long time.

It took until 1996 for the NFL to hire a minority head coach.

In the last 5-7 years there have been a lot.

2003 rule went into place...Marvin Lewis also was already coaching Cinci.
Tom Flores and Art Shell both coached for the Raiders well before Dungy.

 
If it's a situation where everyone knows whom the team is going to hire and they're only interviewing to meet the requirement- I'd like to see some older players interviewed.Not a high percentage but still many players believe they can coach someday after they retire. I gotta figure this would be beneficial to them that day and then some time down the road it'd be beneficial to the league.

 
Can someone please explain to me how they are embarrased that someone else has to go through a hiring process? Why does this upset you? I don't get it?

In many cases it's a sham, who cares? Does it impact you in anyway, even trivial stuff as a fan?
Great questions and opens up a lot of conversation on the topic. This is part of the reason some fans have turned cynical on the NFL while still rooting their team on but realizing Goodell is changing the league and destroying what once was. Some folks really like the changes, others not so much.

FF turned a lot of folks into pseudo GMs and that has carried over to the real NFL where many want to try and make the decisions for the GM. Also as one ages thru life they start to realize how stupid a lot of folks are who make it up the ladder in the world. Far fewer smart folks then actual jobs so there is a lot that goes into how some of us are impacted by these decisions which obviously seem quite mundane to a fan of your caliber. :D

 
How many minority HCs before the rule and how many since?
Tony Dungy was the first I think which is why they should stop playing games and put him in the HoF already. He ruled with the Tampa-2 for a long time.

It took until 1996 for the NFL to hire a minority head coach.

In the last 5-7 years there have been a lot.

2003 rule went into place...Marvin Lewis also was already coaching Cinci.
Tom Flores and Art Shell both coached for the Raiders well before Dungy.
You're right, my apologies. TY Doc Oct

 
It makes sense to interview a black guy very early on to satisfy the rule. What if the coach you really targeted is interview #1 and you don't want to let him walk out the room without hiring him because he has another one scheduled the next day with another team? You can't hire him because you didn't interview a black guy yet.

Black coaches do get hired. The rule is working fine. I have yet to hear a way to improve on it. Anyone offering up one?
Yes..Interview and hire whoever you feel is the best candidate regardless of color.
They are never going to go backwards.
Getting rid of the rule would be a step forward.

 
I actually like the Rooney Rule but would also like to see the Sehorn Rule, where all NFL teams need to carry at least one white cornerback.

 
A white person would not appreciate being invited to an interview for a position that was likely already filled to begin with. I can appreciate how folks say "the process" and it is good that they receive an interview. But it is a forced interview. I don't want to be invited into a company because they have to reach a quota on tall good looking Irish men, I'd rather stay at the pub.

I'm happy doors are being opened but not in the way you would like to see them opened. Honestly, the NFL should allow teams to showcase their bias and racism as it will show up over 20 years when you see a particular organization doesn't have 1 African American in their front office or coaching staff. That will be the true mark of shame instead of putting the shame on the forced interviewee.

 
How many minority HCs before the rule and how many since?
Tony Dungy was the first I think which is why they should stop playing games and put him in the HoF already. He ruled with the Tampa-2 for a long time.

It took until 1996 for the NFL to hire a minority head coach.

In the last 5-7 years there have been a lot.

2003 rule went into place...Marvin Lewis also was already coaching Cinci.
Tom Flores and Art Shell both coached for the Raiders well before Dungy.
You're right, my apologies. TY Doc Oct
No problem. I think Shell was the first black HC (not 100% sure) - Flores was Hispanic (but looked pretty white so many people probably overlook him).

 
Can someone please explain to me how they are embarrased that someone else has to go through a hiring process? Why does this upset you? I don't get it?

In many cases it's a sham, who cares? Does it impact you in anyway, even trivial stuff as a fan?
I dont think it impacts anyone but them, but it is just a discussion.

Why does discussion upset you? I dont get it?

Does this discussion impact you in any way?

 
How many minority HCs before the rule and how many since?
Tony Dungy was the first I think which is why they should stop playing games and put him in the HoF already. He ruled with the Tampa-2 for a long time.

It took until 1996 for the NFL to hire a minority head coach.

In the last 5-7 years there have been a lot.

2003 rule went into place...Marvin Lewis also was already coaching Cinci.
Tom Flores and Art Shell both coached for the Raiders well before Dungy.
You're right, my apologies. TY Doc Oct
No problem. I think Shell was the first black HC (not 100% sure) - Flores was Hispanic (but looked pretty white so many people probably overlook him).
Shell was and Flores, I never knew him as Hispanic growing up. Never heard a word about it but I realize it now.

We could say very few prior to the Rooney Rule.

 
Can someone please explain to me how they are embarrased that someone else has to go through a hiring process? Why does this upset you? I don't get it?

In many cases it's a sham, who cares? Does it impact you in anyway, even trivial stuff as a fan?
I dont think it impacts anyone but them, but it is just a discussion.

Why does discussion upset you? I dont get it?

Does this discussion impact you in any way?
Discussion doesn't bother me, and I'm not saying I'm embarrased by it. You clearly think it should be changed, but why?

 
I say get rid of the rule because it is not necessary, at all. Not now, and never will be again.

I don't think it was ever necessary to begin with anyway.

 
Agree with what Rooney was trying to do, just think it's pretty obvious that it needs some revisiting. It's just so blatant that teams are getting it out if te way early in the search. Whether it's a "company man" (staley) or a guy who deserves a real shot (Austin) or a guy that oversaw the lions front office (really? You want Mayhew?) it seems like these interviews are largely to simply satisfy te rule
I may be recalling this incorrectly but it seems to me that when Mike Tomlin interviewed for the Steelers job, a lot of people thought the Steelers were just going through the motions to satisfy the rule also but then we saw one of the better young minds come to get a job.

If nothing else, it offers exposure that might otherwise go completely overlooked. I get what you're saying and I agree, it DOES look rather silly when seemingly EVERY position that opens up has a minority interviewing with the next 15 minutes of the announcement, yet never gets any hires, but then when it DOES happen (or at least puts a person on the map), it has done part of the job.

I kind of wonder if the guys going through the interview see it one way or the other but everything has to start somewhere and a chance is better than none. A new face & name in the conversation is better than one more stinking round of recycled Shanahans, Wade Phillips, etc. I mean, seriously, how many times can ONE guy (say, Romeo) demonstrate that he is not a good coach, yet end up with 10+ NFL jobs over the course of his often-fired career?

 
I say get rid of the rule because it is not necessary, at all. Not now, and never will be again.

I don't think it was ever necessary to begin with anyway.
On the NFL level, I agree that I think it was less necessary there than almost anywhere outside of baseball.

The real measuring stick of the rule is when it is NOT needed any longer. When the generation comes up that doesn't know as anything other than "a rule that used to exist but has been long gone", we know we finally got it right.

 

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