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***OFFICIAL*** 2016 and beyond Washington Redskins Thread

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33 minutes ago, Marvelous said:

With McCloughan's approach this year, you can see that the draft is everything for building the team. 

Almost to a fault though, imo. Not saying he should be throwing money around like a drunken sailor but last year he brought in a few complintary pieces at reasonable salaries(DT/CB) but this year...... Reyes? I know it's almost custom to come in and pan the guy I've watched and tell WAS they got a stiff..... but he really has played horrible.

With the money guys like like Freeman, Hayward, and Branch got they could have really helped that defense imo. Just think how much more dynamic that offense would have been with a Forte? What a great guy that would have taken pressure off of Cousins to duplicate that stretch run. None of those guys got much $ but coukd have had big roles on a playoff team. WAS is the defending division champ and it's not that strong a division.

There are still some guys that are floating around out there. Patrick Robinson, Fairley, Nelson, Dansby, Wisniewski, Vasquez, Evans.... at this point it's hard to believe any of those guys will get paid much but couldn't they have big roles on a pretty solid Redskin team? If nothing else they may be available for depth building prices and allow for BPA in the draft by having fewer needs.

Maybe I am too high on WAS but I think they could have a stranglehold on the division no matter how high the Cowboys pick, or how many splashy over-priced players the NYG sign. Seems to me PHI has gotten a ton of credit for tearing apart their roster. WAS could easily win this thing back to back with a little better secondary and strength up the middle on both offense and defense.

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5 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

Almost to a fault though, imo. Not saying he should be throwing money around like a drunken sailor but last year he brought in a few complintary pieces at reasonable salaries(DT/CB) but this year...... Reyes? I know it's almost custom to come in and pan the guy I've watched and tell WAS they got a stiff..... but he really has played horrible.

With the money guys like like Freeman, Hayward, and Branch got they could have really helped that defense imo. Just think how much more dynamic that offense would have been with a Forte? What a great guy that would have taken pressure off of Cousins to duplicate that stretch run. None of those guys got much $ but coukd have had big roles on a playoff team. WAS is the defending division champ and it's not that strong a division.

There are still some guys that are floating around out there. Patrick Robinson, Fairley, Nelson, Dansby, Wisniewski, Vasquez, Evans.... at this point it's hard to believe any of those guys will get paid much but couldn't they have big roles on a pretty solid Redskin team? If nothing else they may be available for depth building prices and allow for BPA in the draft by having fewer needs.

Maybe I am too high on WAS but I think they could have a stranglehold on the division no matter how high the Cowboys pick, or how many splashy over-priced players the NYG sign. Seems to me PHI has gotten a ton of credit for tearing apart their roster. WAS could easily win this thing back to back with a little better secondary and strength up the middle on both offense and defense.

No thanks, I've seen that movie here before.  They aren't one or two players away from being a serious contender and overspending on aging Free Agents is not the way to go and although the NFC East is a bit weak they need to continue to build through the draft and look to make a serious run in a couple of years.

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1 hour ago, thayman said:

No thanks, I've seen that movie here before.  They aren't one or two players away from being a serious contender and overspending on aging Free Agents is not the way to go and although the NFC East is a bit weak they need to continue to build through the draft and look to make a serious run in a couple of years.

Could not have said it better. You have to give the current and future young draft picks the opportunity to play their way into long term starting positions by experiencing potentially prominent roles and learning on the job. Signing stopgaps doesn't help that effort. Its clear what the model is. Skins fans can look to a bright future with scotch at the helm, but we must show patience in the approach of building through the draft.

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2 hours ago, thayman said:

They aren't one or two players away from being a serious contender....

They were a slightly better running game and defense(maybe time management experience by Cousins too) from blowing the Packers out in the first half of the playoff game they hosted. That same Packers team came within a hair of winning in ARZ. I am not saying they would have won in CAR, they got killed there earlier in the year, but...... isn't that the NFC title game?

Maybe it's because I am an outsider looking in but if you fill just a few of those holes before the draft I am not sure why they can't be a contender in the NFC unless you think Cousins is a mirage. Even if you did think that bolstering the interior line and running game a bit only helps him. Again, those are small FA contracts, absolutely nothing like the HUGE signings the Skins used to make. Apples and oranges. I don't think adding a couple of guys means you can't draft well and continue to build through the draft. (SHRUG) I just think they are pretty close. Seem like one of the best values in Vegas to me.

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From PFT:

Quote

Washington has eight picks now, wants to trade for four more

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 21, 2016, 8:39 AM EDT
Washington General Manager Scot McCloughan is on a mission to add draft picks.

McCloughan says that with eight picks right now, he’s looking to trade down and end up with a dozen draft picks before the draft ends on Saturday, April 30.

“The thing is, the more you kind of swing at it, the more chances you’ve got to hit,” McCloughan said. “And I think last year we had a solid draft – we got some guys that came in and helped us win a division – we’re going to keep adding to it. And the more picks I can get, the more younger guys – the more healthier guys – I’m going that route.”

McCloughan says the way to build a winning franchise is to add a lot of young talent, year after year.

“I preach and preach and preach and I’ll never change: you build through the draft,” he said. “You identify your own – who can play, but not just from a talent standpoint, but from a personality standpoint, character standpoint, a passion standpoint, a competitive standpoint where you know, ‘This guy fits what we’re looking for. We can build on these guys.’ And they teach younger guys how to do it.”

That line of thinking seems to be growing more popular in the NFL these days, but a team can only add picks if it can find another team willing to part with picks. McCloughan is hoping he can find some other G.M.s around the league who are willing to trade picks away.

 

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McCoulghan is right though. The draft is such a crapshoot that the more shots you take, the better chance you have of hitting some. If he could have a dozen picks every year, he'd do it.

I like the offseason so far. There really wasn't much out there that we needed to spend big money on. Save that cap space and extend guys we already have that have proven themselves in the system.

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1 hour ago, MattFancy said:

McCoulghan is right though. The draft is such a crapshoot that the more shots you take, the better chance you have of hitting some. If he could have a dozen picks every year, he'd do it.

I like the offseason so far. There really wasn't much out there that we needed to spend big money on. Save that cap space and extend guys we already have that have proven themselves in the system.

I agree with the theory, but your odds get worse the further down the rounds you go. Picks for picks' sake can go badly. Like, I'd rather have a pick in each of the 7 rounds then 32 picks in the 7th round. I wonder what round the success rate falls close to equal of underrated FAs. I'd guess it's the 6th. Maybe even late 5th. 

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15 minutes ago, Sebowski said:

I agree with the theory, but your odds get worse the further down the rounds you go. Picks for picks' sake can go badly. Like, I'd rather have a pick in each of the 7 rounds then 32 picks in the 7th round. I wonder what round the success rate falls close to equal of underrated FAs. I'd guess it's the 6th. Maybe even late 5th. 

Oh I agree. If a guy you don't love isn't there, sure, trade down. But if there's someone that can help the team, I wouldn't advocate trading a pick just to get another pick later in the draft. Go for the guys that can make an impact and help the team.

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31 minutes ago, MattFancy said:

Oh I agree. If a guy you don't love isn't there, sure, trade down. But if there's someone that can help the team, I wouldn't advocate trading a pick just to get another pick later in the draft. Go for the guys that can make an impact and help the team.

The trick is that the scouting department must have identified targets to go after in the 4th-7th rounds.  Otherwise, trading down is pretty silly.

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12 minutes ago, ex-ghost said:

How much is it the Matt Jones Show now? Draft another RB in the mid-rounds, sign a FA?

 

Draft another guy in the 4th or 5th, imo. Always RB value in the draft. 

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***Read this post in it's entirety before lighting torches and grabbing pitchforks***

Sorry, guys, from a pure football standpoint, I just don't get the reaction about Morris (unless it's because of all places, he was signed by the Cowboys, who have an elite run-blocking offensive line that will give an RB like Morris plenty of help).

Don't get me wrong, I L-O-V-E LOVE Alfred Morris the person. Anybody who knows me, knows how much I can't stand the typical modern-era player, and Morris is a poster child for how I wish every player comported himself...but, again, that's Alfred Morris the human being, and kudos to whoever raised him, because that's a direct reflection on them...

...however, the facts of the matter are this: 1. Alfred Morris may or may not be a 'system back', best suited for the zone blocking scheme first developed by Alex Gibbs, but, for all intents and purposes, taken to the extreme by Kyle Shanahan...but one thing is absolutely certain: within a rushing offense based on those ZBS principles, he performed better than in the one employed in the West Coast variant Gruden scheme. 2. Alfred Morris has his share of skills as a RB, but 'dynamic' is not an adjective you'd ever use to describe him: he is not shifty, he's not all that quick, at best he's an adequate pass blocker; I'm not going to go as far as to say he's a poor pass receiver out of the backfield (because I'd like to see him have more opportunities before deciding on an opinion), but based on the opportunities he's had, the options one has throwing to him out of the backfield, given his other skills (or lack therof), are limited, and he doesn't have a second gear. At best, he's a 2-down slasher, more likely he's a 2-down banger/bruiser/plodder...

...in short, he's a special person, and that I will miss, because I wish every player brought his maturity, work ethic and approach to the game...but a special player, he is not, and like Robert Griffin, he is a square peg trying to fit into a round hole in this offense.

RB is an interesting position for the 'skins right now: if Matt Jones can hang onto the football, and Chris Thompson can stay healthy, and you mix in Pierre Thomas, and a healthy Silas Redd, that's a group, IMO, whose whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. If McCloughan is able to find his way into some more draft picks, I'd have no problem with him drafting one or two, in the middle-to-late-rounds to compete. If they don't work out as RB, RB's often make excellent special teams players, and that's not too high a price to pay for help on 'teams.

I wish you a fond farewell, Alfred. Your character and approach to the game will be missed, and I hope you find success in an offense, or behind an offensive line that suits your skills. In fact, I like you so much as a person, I won't even mind you having moderate success when playing against us...and while it's likely the locker room will be a lesser place without you, I don't think our rushing game will suffer for it. Peace!

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5 hours ago, nittanylion said:

RB is an interesting position for the 'skins right now: if Matt Jones can hang onto the football, and Chris Thompson can stay healthy, and you mix in Pierre Thomas, and a healthy Silas Redd, that's a group, IMO, whose whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. If McCloughan is able to find his way into some more draft picks, I'd have no problem with him drafting one or two, in the middle-to-late-rounds to compete. If they don't work out as RB, RB's often make excellent special teams players, and that's not too high a price to pay for help on 'teams.

I completely agree with this. Morris is probably better off behind a better line because he certainly isn't creating much.

I have seen Ferguson/Foster/Drake/Williams/Ervin projected around the 5th round. Those are high risk guys but with Jones/Thomas already in the backfield I didn't see a role for Morris anyway. Thompson was impressive but I worry about his injury a little. Why not take a flyer on one, or if he can trade down for more picks like he wants to do, maybe even two of those guys in the 4th/5th or 5th/6th round? Those guys all represent a pretty high ceiling and could end up in a full job share if Jones continues to fumble.

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I see what you mean nittany. I think some of the backlash about losing Alf was because he was a great team player and by all accounts, seems like a great person. It's hard to lose guys like that, especially to a rival.

Now is Alf the next great RB? Probably not. He was great when we ran a ZBS and had a healthy Griffin behind center to take some heat off of him. But, you're right, he was never a fit for Gruden's run game.

I think RB is a very unsettled position on the team right now. Jones has potential for sure, but he has his own issues. Thompson has some nice speed, but he's been injured a bunch. Not sure how I feel about Silas Redd. Didn't we not re-sign Pierre Thomas?

Definitely think we'll take a RB in the draft. Probably somewhere in the middle rounds. As short-term as RB has become around the league, there's no downside to taking a chance on one every draft going forward in the later rounds.

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Just now, PinkydaPimp said:

Looks like RG3 is signing with Cleveland.  Very interested to see how this plays out.  :popcorn:

We'll see it first hand this season. Browns slated to travel to Washington at some point during regular season. I smell a fun home opener...

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Just now, MattFancy said:

We'll see it first hand this season. Browns slated to travel to Washington at some point during regular season. I smell a fun home opener...

yikes forgot we played them........

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From PFT:

Quote

Via multiple reports, it’s a two-year contract that has a $3.5 million signing bonus, $6.75 million guaranteed, a base value of $15 million and a maximum value with performance incentives of $22 million.

Is that a good deal? It depends on your perspective. It’s better than the contract the Browns’ incumbent starter, Josh McCown, has. So that strongly suggests that the Browns see Griffin as a replacement for McCown, and McCown is likely on the way out.

But it’s nothing remotely close to the deals that quarterbacks like Sam Bradford and Brock Osweiler have received this offseason, and it’s not even as good as the contract that Chase Daniel — who has started all of two games in his career — got from the Eagles.

Griffin is being paid like a starting QB who go the 32nd best commitment to a starting QB (ok, maybe the Rams situation is less stable).  If Griffin does not do well or is replaced, his contract is probably a 1 year contract for $6.75M - $9M. 

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On 3/24/2016 at 0:48 PM, PinkydaPimp said:

yikes forgot we played them........

Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati.  Unless The Redskins play Cleveland early in the year he'll be hurt.

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On 3/24/2016 at 8:45 AM, MattFancy said:

I see what you mean nittany. I think some of the backlash about losing Alf was because he was a great team player and by all accounts, seems like a great person. It's hard to lose guys like that, especially to a rival.

Now is Alf the next great RB? Probably not. He was great when we ran a ZBS and had a healthy Griffin behind center to take some heat off of him. But, you're right, he was never a fit for Gruden's run game.

I think RB is a very unsettled position on the team right now. Jones has potential for sure, but he has his own issues. Thompson has some nice speed, but he's been injured a bunch. Not sure how I feel about Silas Redd. Didn't we not re-sign Pierre Thomas?

Definitely think we'll take a RB in the draft. Probably somewhere in the middle rounds. As short-term as RB has become around the league, there's no downside to taking a chance on one every draft going forward in the later rounds.

I think the biggest backlash you've seen is mostly because he signed with Dallas.  If he signed anywhere else other than Dallas, Philly or NY Giants I'd root for him.

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Just now, dgreen said:

Anquan Boldin visiting today, according to Mike Jones (and others).

Maybe he could be the blocking TE and Reed can just be a WR.:P

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16 hours ago, dgreen said:

Anquan Boldin visiting today, according to Mike Jones (and others).

Not sure I understand this one. IMO, he's not really any different than Garcon. Both are the possession type WRs that can make catches over the middle. Kind of built the same, believe Boldin is a little taller. And Boldin is 36. So if they bring in Boldin, does this mean the end for Garcon? I would imagine Boldin would be cheaper.

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1 hour ago, MattFancy said:

Not sure I understand this one. IMO, he's not really any different than Garcon. Both are the possession type WRs that can make catches over the middle. Kind of built the same, believe Boldin is a little taller. And Boldin is 36. So if they bring in Boldin, does this mean the end for Garcon? I would imagine Boldin would be cheaper.

Boldin would be much cheaper, I assume. Garcon has a $10.2M cap hit this year and would only cost them $2.2M to cut him, so they can save $8M by cutting him. If they can get Boldin for about $3M then they'd have an extra $5 to spend elsewhere. But, I'm not completely convinced Boldin would lead to a Garcon cutting. I think they really like Garcon and want him around another year. If Boldin comes cheaply, maybe they want both on the team. Sure would help the running game.

They also still have Andre Roberts at $5M and they'd save $3M by cutting him. So, again, if they can get Boldin for around $3M (no idea if that's realistic or not), they'd come out even by cutting Roberts and signing Boldin and would have improved their team from a skill perspective (assuming Boldin doesn't fall off the age cliff).

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10 minutes ago, dgreen said:

Boldin would be much cheaper, I assume. Garcon has a $10.2M cap hit this year and would only cost them $2.2M to cut him, so they can save $8M by cutting him. If they can get Boldin for about $3M then they'd have an extra $5 to spend elsewhere. But, I'm not completely convinced Boldin would lead to a Garcon cutting. I think they really like Garcon and want him around another year. If Boldin comes cheaply, maybe they want both on the team. Sure would help the running game.

They also still have Andre Roberts at $5M and they'd save $3M by cutting him. So, again, if they can get Boldin for around $3M (no idea if that's realistic or not), they'd come out even by cutting Roberts and signing Boldin and would have improved their team from a skill perspective (assuming Boldin doesn't fall off the age cliff).

I like Garcon don't get me wrong. I just don't see what Boldin can bring that Garcon doesn't already do. Sure, Boldin differs from Roberts, but IMO, they play different roles in the offense. I think Crowder makes Roberts expendable. I don't know why we still are holding onto Roberts at this point.

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28 minutes ago, MattFancy said:

I like Garcon don't get me wrong. I just don't see what Boldin can bring that Garcon doesn't already do. Sure, Boldin differs from Roberts, but IMO, they play different roles in the offense. I think Crowder makes Roberts expendable. I don't know why we still are holding onto Roberts at this point.

Last year they held on to him because of the cap hit.  So far this year I figured they have been holding on to him for depth and waiting to see how the Draft shakes out.  

I've heard Boldin is very good in the locker room, particularly with the young receivers.  I also seem to remember when he was cut from Baltimore he had said how much he loved living in the area.

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If Bolden is signed, it would be for WR depth and veteran leadership.  McCloughan sent some pretty strong signals that Garcon and Jackson are staying.

I heard Roberts was not cut yet since he is injured.  There could be issues cutting an injured player, so they are waiting for him to heal.

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I'm biased as an FSU alum, but Boldin has always been a favorite player of mine. Awesome competitive spirit and great teammate. Oh, and he can ball. The more of those guys on a football team the better. 

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10 minutes ago, MattFancy said:

Skins sign Vernon Davis.

A big MEH from me.

It should be, Reed is so much better at this point, it is purely for depth/backup.

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13 minutes ago, MattFancy said:

Skins sign Vernon Davis.

A big MEH from me.

Reed is our top dog, no doubt. But he's also been a training room dweller.  I like this as good veteran backup/2nd TE weapon.

 

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Davis' blocking skills are a, generally, underrated part of his game.  He probably just became the best blocking TE on the 'Skins roster.  Depending on the special teams factor, Logan Paulsen may have just become expendable.

ETA:  There is also the injury factors at the TE position.  Those being, that Niles Paul and Derek Carrier are still recovering from injuries, and that Jordan Reed has yet to play 16 games in a season.

Edited by Sidewinder16
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2 hours ago, stbugs said:

It should be, Reed is so much better at this point, it is purely for depth/backup.

This tells me they don't think Paul will be ready.

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Assuming Davis can still play (was his decline the last 2 years primarily because of poor QB play?), then I think this offense can create some great matchup problems for defenses. What defensive personnel do you use against Matt Jones, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Jordan Reed, and Vernon Davis? A base 4-3/3-4 or do you feel like you have to go with more DBs because of Reed's and Davis' receiving abilities? Now imagine a 3 TE set with Reed, Davis, and Paul/Carrier. Bring in extra bulk to deal with a potential run, leaving LBs covering those TEs?

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1 hour ago, dgreen said:

Assuming Davis can still play (was his decline the last 2 years primarily because of poor QB play?), then I think this offense can create some great matchup problems for defenses. What defensive personnel do you use against Matt Jones, Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Jordan Reed, and Vernon Davis? A base 4-3/3-4 or do you feel like you have to go with more DBs because of Reed's and Davis' receiving abilities? Now imagine a 3 TE set with Reed, Davis, and Paul/Carrier. Bring in extra bulk to deal with a potential run, leaving LBs covering those TEs?

 

CHAMPIONSHIP!

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I guess going back, I'm not upset or anything about the signing. Davis can offer depth at TE for sure. I'm just meh on it, because I don't think Davis is the same guy he used to be. His numbers have been pretty bad the last 2 seasons. Yes, he can offer depth, but I don't think we should expect much more than that out of him. A few people (not necessarily on here) seem really giddy about the signing. I just don't think Davis has much left at this point in his career.

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4 hours ago, MattFancy said:

I guess going back, I'm not upset or anything about the signing. Davis can offer depth at TE for sure. I'm just meh on it, because I don't think Davis is the same guy he used to be. His numbers have been pretty bad the last 2 seasons. Yes, he can offer depth, but I don't think we should expect much more than that out of him. A few people (not necessarily on here) seem really giddy about the signing. I just don't think Davis has much left at this point in his career.

If he was cheap, it's an OK depth signing, but for some of the questions (dgreen) above, it wasn't just QB play. He looked horrific for Denver. I watched a couple games after he was signed and he made multiple awful drops when he was wide open (due to Thomas/Sanders taking the coverage). The Broncos made the same cheap signing and he contributed nothing and you would think a TE would help Manning as his arm withered away.

I think Gekko's post is just silly. Davis didn't have "options" based on his recent play. He's looking for an opportunity and Reed has been oft-injured and there is not much behind him in a scheme where they throw to TEs. Davis is 32 and outside of two fluky high TD years (I say fluky as he has 2 13 TD seasons and 9 season with 0, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 TDs, his last 60+ reception year was 2011.

I'm not saying it is a terrible signing, but it is silly to think that this signals some new era for the Skins because a guy who played at Maryland and was born in DC is coming home on a prove it deal.

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On 4/1/2016 at 7:32 AM, MattFancy said:

I guess going back, I'm not upset or anything about the signing. Davis can offer depth at TE for sure. I'm just meh on it, because I don't think Davis is the same guy he used to be. His numbers have been pretty bad the last 2 seasons. Yes, he can offer depth, but I don't think we should expect much more than that out of him. A few people (not necessarily on here) seem really giddy about the signing. I just don't think Davis has much left at this point in his career.

Davis's contract is for a base of $1.35 million and if he meets all of his incentives it'd be worth up to $2.4 million.  I heard some people being a little over the top on it as well, but that's a good depth move for a affordable price.  I'm more giddy on the fiscal responsibility they have been consistently showing the past couple of years.

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A limited version of the NFL Preseason Schedule was released, minus exact dates and times...

Week 1: at Falcons

Week 2: vs Jets

Week 3: vs Bills (nice to get the 'dress rehearsal' game at home)

Week 4: at Buccaneers

For folks who go to these games, landing Weeks 2 & 3 at home is pretty much hitting the jackpot. Game 1, potential starters rarely get more than 1 series, and Game 4 is the scrub bowl, so at least we've got that going for us...

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49 minutes ago, nittanylion said:

For folks who go to these games...

I didn't renew my tickets. Kind of bitter sweet. Part of me wishes I still had them and part of me is relieved to not have them anymore. I've always known I shouldn't be paying for a full season, but I could justify for years by selling off some games. As time went on, though, it has become harder and harder to sell. I made some attempts to find someone to either split the upcoming season with me or even buy the whole season and I found zero interest, which only confirms my decision. The main reason I wanted to keep them was to earn enough rewards points to buy pregame sideline passes for all of my kids. That would have been fun.

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35 minutes ago, nittanylion said:

dgreen, how much rewards points would that take?

I have 14,000 right now. IIRC, I think it was 8,000 points for 2 people last season? So, if I took all three kids to one game this season (needing four sideline passes), I should only need 2,000 more.

I called the ticket office when I was deciding whether or not to renew and they said I could still use my points even if I didn't renew. I also asked if one person could purchase something with their rewards and transfer it to someone else and they said yes. However, I'm not sure if points themselves can be transferred. I didn't ask that. So, if points can't be transferred, then I guess I'd need someone to use 8,000 of their points, assuming the price remains the same this season. 

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26 minutes ago, dgreen said:

I have 14,000 right now. IIRC, I think it was 8,000 points for 2 people last season? So, if I took all three kids to one game this season (needing four sideline passes), I should only need 2,000 more.

I called the ticket office when I was deciding whether or not to renew and they said I could still use my points even if I didn't renew. I also asked if one person could purchase something with their rewards and transfer it to someone else and they said yes. However, I'm not sure if points themselves can be transferred. I didn't ask that. So, if points can't be transferred, then I guess I'd need someone to use 8,000 of their points, assuming the price remains the same this season. 

I just checked, and I have over 40K yards, which, I take it, are the same thing as points. If you know how to get some of mine, I'll do what I need to do on my end to get your kids on the sidelines. Just let me know how, and when.

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