CabinFever
Footballguy
If the Skins give up their 1st AND Cousins for just the Niners 1st rounder I'm finding a new favorite team after cheering for them my entire life!!!! 
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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter dgreen
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Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Not happening. It seems to me the rumor is missing a piece of the trade. Like it should be Cousins and #17 for #2 this year and next years SF first rounder. Or maybe a player.If the Skins give up their 1st AND Cousins for just the Niners 1st rounder I'm finding a new favorite team after cheering for them my entire life!!!!
Just speculation anyway. It's fun to mess around with ideas. But frankly any team really wanting to trade for him is probably keeping a shut mouth.
Ted Mullins
Footballguy
It's certainly written as if it's fact as opposed to his assumptions. It would not surprise me at all considering past history and McCloughan supposedly being muffled at the Senior Bowl.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Wouldn't be too shocked if Washington blew up the roster a little bit with aims of getting lots of draft stock next year. Gruden could be dumped after this coming season if the Skins don't do well, and a new coach would want to bring in a new QB. If they trade for #2 and somehow get Garrett or some other very talented player, I could see them going QB next year with a new coach. IMO if they trade Cousins, Gruden doesn't have long.
fatness
Footballguy
Well we don't know if Brewer's article (about Allen really running things, and putting McCloughan in his place) is based on real source information or not. But what we do know is 3 things:
1. Cooley is a Redskin employee.
2. Cooley wondered out loud on the air if McCloughan was drinking again.
3. The Redskins front office did not do one thing to publicly support their GM, McCloughan.
edit: for what it's worth, here's what some guys following the Redskins said about the article.
1. Cooley is a Redskin employee.
2. Cooley wondered out loud on the air if McCloughan was drinking again.
3. The Redskins front office did not do one thing to publicly support their GM, McCloughan.
edit: for what it's worth, here's what some guys following the Redskins said about the article.
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fatness
Footballguy
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
So Colt would be starting the second half of the first game after Romo goes down to injury...
By the way, I like Tony...I think he's a super classy player...just think he's at the tail end of his career and gets hurt too much. I want him to transition to coaching or commentating or whatever he wants for his sake...
Who is up next? Colt won't last 1/2 the season either.So Colt would be starting the second half of the first game after Romo goes down to injury...
By the way, I like Tony...I think he's a super classy player...just think he's at the tail end of his career and gets hurt too much. I want him to transition to coaching or commentating or whatever he wants for his sake...
Nate Sudfield or something like that, right? I wasn't impressed with him going against third stringers in preseason. :(
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/24/add-washington-to-the-list-of-non-talkers-at-the-scouting-combine/
Cue the "Bruce Allen is an evil puppet-master comments."
Cue the "Bruce Allen is an evil puppet-master comments."
fatness
Footballguy
Tandler pretty much confirms the power structure Jerry Brewer described.
http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/need-know-redskins-cousins-called-mercenary-and-thats-good-thing
CabinFever
Footballguy
From Rotoworld this morning. And as a life long skins fan, I've done a 180 and would like to give a big "F You" shout out to Kirk. 
ESPN's John Keim reports the 49ers are the only team Kirk Cousins is willing to sign a long-term contract with "right now."
Keim adds Washington will likely try to trade Cousins as it has become clear the two sides are not going to work out a deal, but this report puts a serious dent in his trade market. Teams are not going to give up any significant trade chips without assurances Cousins will agree to a long-term deal when he gets there, and it seems clear the quarterback's ultimate goal is to reunite with old OC Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco in 2018 if not sooner. Washington has bungled this situation from the start, and it does not look like it will get any better anytime soon.
ESPN's John Keim reports the 49ers are the only team Kirk Cousins is willing to sign a long-term contract with "right now."
Keim adds Washington will likely try to trade Cousins as it has become clear the two sides are not going to work out a deal, but this report puts a serious dent in his trade market. Teams are not going to give up any significant trade chips without assurances Cousins will agree to a long-term deal when he gets there, and it seems clear the quarterback's ultimate goal is to reunite with old OC Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco in 2018 if not sooner. Washington has bungled this situation from the start, and it does not look like it will get any better anytime soon.
Meh, I'm not offended. I agree with Fatness that you've really seen Kirk's absolute ceiling in the best situation possible for him. If they can get the #2 pick + more for him I'd be happy.From Rotoworld this morning. And as a life long skins fan, I've done a 180 and would like to give a big "F You" shout out to Kirk.
ESPN's John Keim reports the 49ers are the only team Kirk Cousins is willing to sign a long-term contract with "right now."
Keim adds Washington will likely try to trade Cousins as it has become clear the two sides are not going to work out a deal, but this report puts a serious dent in his trade market. Teams are not going to give up any significant trade chips without assurances Cousins will agree to a long-term deal when he gets there, and it seems clear the quarterback's ultimate goal is to reunite with old OC Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco in 2018 if not sooner. Washington has bungled this situation from the start, and it does not look like it will get any better anytime soon.
I also think this is stupid of Kirk. If the team feels they are going to be taking a step back for a year or two to rebuild with some young talent there's no way they sign Garcon or Jackson. If he ends up staying in Washington I feel you'll see more bad Kirk this year.
nittanylion
Footballguy
I think targeting Cousins with your ire is misplaced energy. I'm a lifelong fan myself, and the way I see it, the Redskins did this to themselves. Over the last few days, multiple reports from credible sources corroborate that much of what we have assumed about McCloughan's role in the Organization, is, frankly, false...
...as the faint strains of clown car music begin to waft in from the distance, growing increasingly louder as I continue to type, it absolutely makes my heart sink to think that Bruce Allen, who's real-life experience/record as a competent GM, from a team-building standpoint is minimal at best, is still in charge of things he's not qualified to be in charge of...
...and to make matters worse, it appears, to me, at least, that we're seeing the same dynamic occurring that took place back in 1999 between Snyder and Schottenheimer, where petty, immature, childish, impulsive behavior on the part of Allen might cost our Team the best talent evaluator we've had since Beathard/Casserly...
...all this flip-flopping, wishy-washy behavior surrounding 'what to do about Kirk' is a glaring sign of organizational weakness. Organizations of any kind who have strong leaders and an efficient and intelligent decision-making process do just that - make decisions. Right decisions or wrong, they make them in a timely manner, and move forward into the results phase with goals, purpose and determination, rather than waffling around like a sheet in the wind. Jump in the pool and start swimming, not standing there on the deck dipping a toe in the water and pulling it out. I feel strongly that were McCloughan really in charge, this situation would have been solved one way or another, a while ago, and Cousins would either be under contract, or if not, that the Redskins would hold the high ground in their negotiations with other Teams in regards to trading him, neither situation being what we're muddling through now.
All this crap leaking out over the past few weeks, from multiple, credible sources, no less, has really taken the wind out of my sails. ####### Bruce. Just like Lucy, Charlie Brown and the football. What a show.
...as the faint strains of clown car music begin to waft in from the distance, growing increasingly louder as I continue to type, it absolutely makes my heart sink to think that Bruce Allen, who's real-life experience/record as a competent GM, from a team-building standpoint is minimal at best, is still in charge of things he's not qualified to be in charge of...
...and to make matters worse, it appears, to me, at least, that we're seeing the same dynamic occurring that took place back in 1999 between Snyder and Schottenheimer, where petty, immature, childish, impulsive behavior on the part of Allen might cost our Team the best talent evaluator we've had since Beathard/Casserly...
...all this flip-flopping, wishy-washy behavior surrounding 'what to do about Kirk' is a glaring sign of organizational weakness. Organizations of any kind who have strong leaders and an efficient and intelligent decision-making process do just that - make decisions. Right decisions or wrong, they make them in a timely manner, and move forward into the results phase with goals, purpose and determination, rather than waffling around like a sheet in the wind. Jump in the pool and start swimming, not standing there on the deck dipping a toe in the water and pulling it out. I feel strongly that were McCloughan really in charge, this situation would have been solved one way or another, a while ago, and Cousins would either be under contract, or if not, that the Redskins would hold the high ground in their negotiations with other Teams in regards to trading him, neither situation being what we're muddling through now.
All this crap leaking out over the past few weeks, from multiple, credible sources, no less, has really taken the wind out of my sails. ####### Bruce. Just like Lucy, Charlie Brown and the football. What a show.
CabinFever
Footballguy
Well I think Cousins hasn't been nearly as "disrespected" as he makes it sound. Of course he was drafted to be a backup to RG3, so the first few years he didn't start was and should have been expected. Then when RG3 gets hurt he comes in, and has very up and down performances. Only a smart team would want him to prove himself. So they put the tag on him and he gets a great payday in 2015. But again, he made a lot of bad decisions in games and had crucial turnovers so they wanted him to show it again for a 2nd full season a starter. Again, he got a BIG payday. So is he upset that the front office didn't start him over RG3 as a rookie? Is he upset that he got paid as one of the top 5 QBs for 2 years in a row? I just see no loyalty from him at all here. He was surrounded by great weapons in the passing game (although I still think he would have benefited from a better running attack) and his coach let him air it out every single week. Cry me a river Kirk as you've been so disrespected...
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Allen has brought them back to being fiscally responsible which is good. They aren't butting up against the Cap like they used to which is good and he deserves credit for that. If Allen ends up pushing McCloughan out then I'll completely agree with you.
As far as Kirk goes I'm not sure how else they would have handled the situation. I think it was the right move to Franchise him last year, I think McCloughan's comment last year was "We'll be happy to overpay him next year if he does well" or something like that. So without knowing what's going on behind the scenes it's difficult, but if Cousins is saying things like "I'll only sign a long term deal in San Fran" it sounds like Kirk is the one with a toe in the pool stringing the Redskins along.
Last year, it was pretty obvious that using the franchise tag was the correct move. He didn't deserve a long-term contract at that time, but at the same time, the organization had to make it clear that this was really a short-term issue. If they had their #### together, they would have signed him for a long-term deal during the season, after he had shown that his 2015 performance was not a fluke.
Instead, everything we've heard from the organization has been "we'll probably just franchise him again", which should rightly piss him off.
Instead, everything we've heard from the organization has been "we'll probably just franchise him again", which should rightly piss him off.
If we planned on low balling Cousins after the season, then we should have just fired Gruden as well and done a full system reboot.
Everyone yapping like Colt McCoy is going to come in and take us to the promised land is fairly delusional. And guess what, Colt bringing us to 8 wins means...wait for it...wait for it...NOTHING! (bell rings). And why? Because if we go 8 wins, then Gruden is definitely getting fired and then we're up for a total system reboot the following year, probably drafting a new QB in 2018. That being said, a 3-14 finish puts you in better position for that than 8-8.
This is the part that's so inexplicable to me. I can see it if the organization doesn't trust Cousins (though I disagree) but if that's true, then you can't have Gruden on a playoffs or bust prove it year with Colt McCoy foisted upon him. I'm not saying Colt stinks...but I am saying that if Kirk managed 8 and 9 wins, I think Colt does a tick below that. It's basically what a backup would do...Colt is an excellent backup.
So, I still hope they sign Cousins, but if they don't, this whole year is basically talent evaluation because Gruden is dead man walking. It's senseless, and I'm not sure why I should watch next year. Honestly.
Everyone yapping like Colt McCoy is going to come in and take us to the promised land is fairly delusional. And guess what, Colt bringing us to 8 wins means...wait for it...wait for it...NOTHING! (bell rings). And why? Because if we go 8 wins, then Gruden is definitely getting fired and then we're up for a total system reboot the following year, probably drafting a new QB in 2018. That being said, a 3-14 finish puts you in better position for that than 8-8.
This is the part that's so inexplicable to me. I can see it if the organization doesn't trust Cousins (though I disagree) but if that's true, then you can't have Gruden on a playoffs or bust prove it year with Colt McCoy foisted upon him. I'm not saying Colt stinks...but I am saying that if Kirk managed 8 and 9 wins, I think Colt does a tick below that. It's basically what a backup would do...Colt is an excellent backup.
So, I still hope they sign Cousins, but if they don't, this whole year is basically talent evaluation because Gruden is dead man walking. It's senseless, and I'm not sure why I should watch next year. Honestly.
dgreen
Footballguy
This doesn't describe my understanding of what happened.tangfoot said:
First, my understanding is that you CAN'T sign a player to a long-term deal while they are playing under the franchise tag. You have until July, I believe, to work out a long-term contract. If that date passes, then they play under the 1 year franchise tag. The earliest the Redskins could have signed Cousins to a long-term deal was a couple weeks ago.
Second, my understanding is that Cousins has no interest in signing a long-term deal until he see what the Redskins do with the franchise tag. Even if Washington had their #### together, Cousins isn't going to listen right now. There's no incentive for him to sign right now.
Third, not sure we've much of anything from the organization. Maybe they've said, or implied, they'll place the tag on him, but I don't think they've said that's all they want to do. In fact, Allen has said it's not as difficult as people are making it out to be and I'm pretty sure I've heard/read comments that they want Cousins long-term. But, there's really nothing they can do about it right now.
On Kirk, I'll say this. I've been the biggest Kirk Cousins fan on this board...I was lobbying for him to start before RGIII was gone, so no one can call me a Kirk hater.
That said, I'm gonna defend the people who are pissed at Kirk for being "greedy." Bottom line, if Kirk is free to negotiate hard line, then fans are free to feel as they do. Everyone has "rights" not just Cousins. Plus, everyone is making the argument that teams play hard ball, why can't players. Well, I can flip that and say, well if Kirk can make decisions based on $$ and self interest, then how can the Redskins be "evil" for doing that last year? Bottom line, both parties are negotiating in self interest and for some reason it just seems like a toxic atmosphere. I do suspect there is some butt hurt on the part of those who went all in on RGIII and that has hurt the relationship. WIth that said, I do think Kirk has to think long and hard about whether he huffs off and possibly tanks his career in SF vs. staying in Washington in a system he knows he can thrive in. Kirk seems like a good guy, but lets not pretend he can't be prideful.
And I will say this, if we sign him I'll be the biggest Kirk supporter on the board! But if he leaves, he will be an enemy on another team, and I will root for him to fail. Sorry that's just how it is with me. I came up in pre-FFL days where I root for my own guys first and the other ones are the enemy. Lol
That said, I'm gonna defend the people who are pissed at Kirk for being "greedy." Bottom line, if Kirk is free to negotiate hard line, then fans are free to feel as they do. Everyone has "rights" not just Cousins. Plus, everyone is making the argument that teams play hard ball, why can't players. Well, I can flip that and say, well if Kirk can make decisions based on $$ and self interest, then how can the Redskins be "evil" for doing that last year? Bottom line, both parties are negotiating in self interest and for some reason it just seems like a toxic atmosphere. I do suspect there is some butt hurt on the part of those who went all in on RGIII and that has hurt the relationship. WIth that said, I do think Kirk has to think long and hard about whether he huffs off and possibly tanks his career in SF vs. staying in Washington in a system he knows he can thrive in. Kirk seems like a good guy, but lets not pretend he can't be prideful.
And I will say this, if we sign him I'll be the biggest Kirk supporter on the board! But if he leaves, he will be an enemy on another team, and I will root for him to fail. Sorry that's just how it is with me. I came up in pre-FFL days where I root for my own guys first and the other ones are the enemy. Lol
CabinFever
Footballguy
steelers1080
Footballguy
Some people look at Cousins and argue that he should be like Brady and take less money to keep the team together and help get talent. A couple points. First, if the Skins showed 1/10th the ability of the Patriots to field a winning team year after year, and had a coach 1/2 as good as BB, then this might be a semi-valid argument. But when have the Skins ever shown an ability to wisely invest their cap space?
Second, I doubt that Cousins' wife has a net worth of over $300 million. If that was the case, then he probably wouldn't have to quibble about $4-5 million per year, but as it stands, he can't rely on his spouse to be the real breadwinner for the family.
Every player has a right to try and get the most money they can, and every team has the right to sign the cheapest deal they can. Once you sign a contract, play out the contract even if you think you outplayed it. That just means the team got the better deal, but they took the risk. Players can easily get the better of the deal as well, just ask Revis and Osweiler.
Second, I doubt that Cousins' wife has a net worth of over $300 million. If that was the case, then he probably wouldn't have to quibble about $4-5 million per year, but as it stands, he can't rely on his spouse to be the real breadwinner for the family.
Every player has a right to try and get the most money they can, and every team has the right to sign the cheapest deal they can. Once you sign a contract, play out the contract even if you think you outplayed it. That just means the team got the better deal, but they took the risk. Players can easily get the better of the deal as well, just ask Revis and Osweiler.
fatness
Footballguy
The flip side of this is that Allen is the one who came up with the idea of offloading cap money during the uncapped season. That's not a move any of us quibbled with, and we all felt (and feel) the league screwed the Skins.thayman said:
However
It turned out to be a fiasco for the Skins, weakening their ability to sign players for several years. Someone making a mistake like that, one that hurts the company they work for, should rightly be responsible for the ensuing disaster. And Allen was never held accountable for something that was his idea.
fatness
Footballguy
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/28/kirk-cousins-gets-exclusive-franchise-tag/
kirk has been tagged as expected. We'll see what's next
kirk has been tagged as expected. We'll see what's next
fatness
Footballguy
I think what happens with Cousins will play out over months. There's obviously a big gap between what he thinks he's worth and what the Skins think he's worth. It'll take a good bit of time for both parties to move off their numbers. While that time is playing out Cousins's agent will (unofficially, not allowed, but happens) talk to another team or teams to try to work out longterm deal numbers Cousins would be OK with, then have that team offer a trade to the Skins and offer enough the Skins will take it. That'll take a lot of doing. Time will pass, the Skins won't trade unless it's a good trade for the team, both sides (Cousins and team) will get itchy, and maybe one side or the other will move a little on their offer, maybe they agree on a longterm deal. What'll be threatening the Skins is the chance of losing Cousins next year for only a 3rd round comp pick. What'll be threatening Cousins is playing a year with a reduced corps of receivers, not having such a gaudy year, and maybe getting offers next year that are not as good as what he could sign this year.
Hard to tell how it'll work out. The only certain thing is that hundreds of stories and rumors will be floated, with the majority being untrue.
Hard to tell how it'll work out. The only certain thing is that hundreds of stories and rumors will be floated, with the majority being untrue.
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dgreen
Footballguy
Next is negotiation. I've been hearing for a few weeks that neither side will negotiate until the tag is on him.
IIRC, the Redskins put the non-exclusive tag on Cousins last year. And what did Cousins do with that? He signed it. Quickly. Why didn't he talk to other teams? If the Redskins offer was so insulting and Cousins could have got a much bigger deal and escaped the team that has treated him so poorly, why didn't he do that?
Now the Redskins have put the exclusive tag on him. He can't negotiate with other teams, even though I always hear that Cousins has all the leverage.
I think they get a long-term deal done. I think that's what both sides want.
I actually heard Bram Weinstein on the radio today say that he thinks a big reason the Redskins haven't made him an offer because giving him a big long-term offer would be admitting that they were wrong last year and the front office don't want to admit that. That's such an insane theory and thing to say about an NFL team.
dgreen
Footballguy
I'm not sure that's so obvious. Last year, the Redskins and Cousins agreed he was worth $20M for 1 year. I assume Kirk will sign the tag soon, meaning they will both, again, agree that he's worth $24M for 1 year. Yes, we can say that one year ago they were far off on what they both think he's worth long-term at that time. I'm not sure we know that they are far off on what he's worth long-term right now. Maybe they are. But, I don't think there's a ton of evidence of that. To my knowledge, neither side has made an offer.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
He's 31. ( hes been a journeyman with a bunch of teams and I think the arena football league )
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Sebowski
Footballguy
New take: How much more leverage would Kirk have if he came out early and often that he wanted to be a Redskins and he can't imagine playing for any other team and how much he loves the fans? His demands don't have to be any different if he says this things. Why is he being such an idiot? Maybe he's trying to get out?
fatness
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
I think Gruden's recent comments at the combine strengthen your speculation that the Redskins want to get a deal done vs. trading Cousins.
http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/Five-Takeaways-Jay-Gruden-At-The-Combine/190b8045-9bf8-4241-affb-bf88310b1109
Direct quotes from the article:
“We think he’s going to be our quarterback for a long time, and to have that opportunity to negotiate with him and get a long-term deal is what we want to do,” Gruden said to local reporters in Indianapolis. “Let’s move forward and tag him and try to get a deal done and go from there.”
“We can offer him the world, and if he doesn’t want to sign it, he doesn’t have to sign it,” Gruden said. “I think it’ll happen, I really do. We’ll wait and see. I’m going to coach the players that are here, and I fully anticipate Kirk being the quarterback.”
“We know how important that position is in pro football, and to have a guy here that’s been developing in the system for the last two years, we take very seriously,” Gruden said. “We see his progress, we see the progress that he’s going to make and we’re excited about that. We’d love to have a long-term deal done obviously, and hopefully that will happen here in the near future, but we do like where he’s going with his game and we feel good about having him here as a Redskin for a long time.”
OK, so on the one hand we have a steady stream of speculations from journalists, who, without naming any sources, imply that it's a virtual lock that Redskins trade Cousins. And on the other hand, you have the coach, going on the record and not anonymously, saying he expects to have Cousins there.
Someone is going to write, "oh it doesn't matter what Gruden says, Allen will decide." Fine, except apparently, Allen silences those who oppose him, such as the GM. But by some miracle he DOESN'T muzzle Gruden from saying the same things? Further, Allen himself says he expects to sign Cousins?
There are a few ways that a trade could still happen. One, if Cousins just flat out refuses to sign any deal, no matter what the amount, and Gruden acknowledges that. The other option would be if the Redskins just don't offer enough. But I tend to agree with Dgreen on this. It's not rocket science what Cousins' expects. The market is what it is and in fact journalists have written about the likely value ad nauseum. To believe the theories that the Redskins will severely lowball him this year, you have to believe that the Redskins have ZERO sense of those numbers. And come on, by now the team freaking knows if they don't offer a fair deal, he's not signing it, ok. I just dont buy the fact that the team honestly, really thinks Cousins will sign for 22 M per year. THey may be greedy or pigheaded but they are not that clueless.
Someone else is going to say that he only made these remarks to drive up Cousins' value for a trade. To which I say, maybe sneaky ### Allen could lie like that, but I don't think Gruden is cut from that cloth. I think he really believes what he's saying.
I do think the one wild card is if Cousins just doesn't want to play in Washington. But other than that, I think these on the record remarks do clearly indicate that the Redskins will at least try their best to sign Cousins.
At a certain point we have a choice to believe numerous journalists who either hate the Redskins or are looking for ratings vs. actual on the record comments from the team. With so much talk in the nation about "Fake News" we seem awful eager to believe the former when the latter are actually more credible...
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