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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (8 Viewers)

Are Redskins happy with this draft overall? After an A+ first day I kind of felt they earned a C on the second day and maybe closer to a D on the third day.

Here is an alternative weekend:

#17 J.Allen(DE)Alabama

#49 J.Tabor(CB)Florida

#81 E.Jackson(S)Alabama

#114 C.Lawson(EDGE)Auburn

#123 C.Brantley(NT)Florida

#154 J.McNichols(RB)Boise St.

#199 B.Hodges(TE)Virginia Tech

#209 Z.Gonzales(K)Arizona St.

#230 I.Ford(WR)Virginia Tech

#235 C.Kelly(QB)Ole Miss.

UDFA T.Orlosky(C)West Virginia

UDFA K.Cannon(WR)Baylor

UDFA J.Evans(QB)Virginia Tech

UDFA C.Clement(RB)Wisconsin

UDFA C.Buchanan(OT)Miami OH

UDFA C.Stribling(CB)Michigan

 
BoltBacker said:
And if you don't think he's a SB QB what's the point of winning 58% of your regular season games(on the high side) instead of taking your lumps and looking for that guy that CAN lead you to a SB?

In the end it's just a make-or-break year for the Redskins. Either they play better than people anticipate and go deep into the playoffs which means WAS will be willing to pay more and Cousins will be more open to staying OR they hover around .500 and likely don't win or even play in a playoff game which seems more likely at this point. Parting ways may be in the best interest of both sides
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That's exactly where I am on Cousins. We don't need to pay $24 million/year to go 8-7-1 or 9-7 or 8-8.

BTW, this morning ESPN980 confirmed that after the Redskins made their initial $20m/yr offer to Cousins this year, his side has not countered.

To me that says either he or his agent is a prima donna, or he does not want to be here.

 
fatness said:
That's exactly where I am on Cousins. We don't need to pay $24 million/year to go 8-7-1 or 9-7 or 8-8.

BTW, this morning ESPN980 confirmed that after the Redskins made their initial $20m/yr offer to Cousins this year, his side has not countered.

To me that says either he or his agent is a prima donna, or he does not want to be here.
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I think he may be fooling himself he doesn't think $20M is a good offer or at least a good starting point. According to OverTheCap, $20M/yr would be right in range with Cam and Rivers. More than Luck, Ben, and Wilson.

I feel like $21-$22M/yr for Cousins is a good deal for both sides.

 
MattFancy said:
I think he may be fooling himself he doesn't think $20M is a good offer or at least a good starting point. According to OverTheCap, $20M/yr would be right in range with Cam and Rivers. More than Luck, Ben, and Wilson.

I feel like $21-$22M/yr for Cousins is a good deal for both sides.
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Yeah, but I remember the OverTheCap projections were way under on what both Von Miller and Josh Norman actually got. I'm not sure exactly what they use in their formula but I feel that if you are the #1 FA at your position it gets inflated, if the salary cap jumps over $10mil it gets inflated, if there are multiple QB-desperate teams with $100mil jingling around in their pocket it gets inflated. Then you have the personal history between Shanny and Cousins and it might get inflated even more. If Cousins plays up to his career averages and hits the FA market next year his agent should be fired on the spot if he can't get over $23mil.

Part of the equation is production relative to your peers but another big part is the salary cap at the time the deal was signed. Cam signs a 5yr/$103mil contract.... but he signs it when the NFL salary cap is $143mil. So roughly 14% of the cap. If the cap is ~$180mil when Cousins signs his big deal that would come to ~$25mil/season and that ignores those extenuating circumstances mentioned above.

 
My first prediction for the year: Fat Rob Kelley will be the starting RB, and will lead the team in rushing yards.

Glad we drafted Perine, though, and I hope he works out well. Imagine when he's going for his 3rd goalline TD of the game and the home crowd is chanting "PEE-rine PEE-rine PEE-rine!"

 
MattFancy said:
Transition tag: Think of this as the "you are pretty good, and we might want to keep you, but aren't willing to put a ring on you ourselves" tag. The transition designation is a one-year tender offer to a player for an amount that is the average of the top 10 salaries at the position -- as opposed to top five. It guarantees the original club the right of first refusal to match any offer the player might receive from another team, but no compensation if the team chooses not to match.
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These are the type of contracts that get negotiated with a "poison pill" though. SF can put a cause in there saying he gets a $20mil a year raise if more than 4 of his games are played in the state of Maryland, or some ####. Basically, the contract can be written as such that it would be hard to match. 

 
fatness said:
Cousins is not the QB that Newton is, so there's that as well. One carries a team, one does not.
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True, but if contracts were based on comps Cousins played better last year than Cam and really it wasn't even close. 

 
Sebowski said:
These are the type of contracts that get negotiated with a "poison pill" though. SF can put a cause in there saying he gets a $20mil a year raise if more than 4 of his games are played in the state of Maryland, or some ####. Basically, the contract can be written as such that it would be hard to match. 
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And really it doesn't even have to be that complicated a poison pill. SF is nearly $70mil under the cap right now and WAS is under $10mil under the cap. All Cousins/SF would have to do is front load the contract and there would be no way for WAS to match even if they wanted to do so.

 
BoltBacker said:
And really it doesn't even have to be that complicated a poison pill. SF is nearly $70mil under the cap right now and WAS is under $10mil under the cap. All Cousins/SF would have to do is front load the contract and there would be no way for WAS to match even if they wanted to do so.
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One reason WAS is only $10M under the cap because $24M are going to Cousins. Obviously SF is still in the better cap situation, but Washington has plenty of room for a big Cousins contract.

 
fatness said:
And we don't know what Cousins is worth to 31 teams.
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We don't know.  But I guarantee you he and his agent knows exactly what he's worth to at least a few teams.  I think it would be a little naive for us to assume that Cousins and his agent are blindly setting a salary bar.  If the Redskins don't want to sign him long term for what he's asking now, he will get all that and more from a team next year (barring something catastrophic, like a career-ending injury). 

 
Sidewinder16 said:
fatness said:
And we don't know what Cousins is worth to 31 teams.
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We don't know.  But I guarantee you he and his agent knows exactly what he's worth to at least a few teams.  I think it would be a little naive for us to assume that Cousins and his agent are blindly setting a salary bar.  If the Redskins don't want to sign him long term for what he's asking now, he will get all that and more from a team next year (barring something catastrophic, like a career-ending injury).
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I don't agree that his agent knows what he's worth to other teams. I don't agree that the DMV sports media knows. What I know is that Cousins won't make a counter-offer, that he doesn't want to be here, and that the supposedly-debunked rumor that Cousins will not sign with a Bruce Allen team looks more and more true as Cousins continues to not make a counteroffer. If his agent knew what he was worth to other teams he'd ask for that. Unless the Redskins have already exceeded what he's worth to other teams.

I mean, seriously, who the hell negotiates like that? Who says "Thanks for the offer team. I got nothing to say in return"? Players who don't want to be on that team negotiate like that.

 
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MikeApf said:
http://was.247sports.com/Bolt/Former-Alabama-LB-Ryan-Anderson-calls-out-NFL-reporter-52605995

Anderson:  “I’m the old-smith football player,” Anderson told Redskins.com after the draft. “I’m not a combine warrior, not a workout warrior, I’m a football player. At the end of the day, that’s what it boils down to. It boils down to ‘see ball, get ball and striking the man in front of you.’ That’s what I bring to the table.”

:thumbup:
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Anderson's a guy I like and I'm rooting for this year, because in college he did far more than his "body type" and "measurables" said he'd be able to do. It's been years since the Redskins had anyone who can set the edge. It would be great to see him do that in the pros like he did in college.

 
" Despite quarterback Kirk Cousins’ impressive stats in most areas in 2016, the Washington Redskins’ red zone efficiency took a dramatic drop-off from the previous year. In 2015, he completed 63.7 percent of his passes inside the 20-yard-line and 64.10 inside the 10. In 2016, these percentages dropped to 45.78 percent inside the 20 and 31.58 inside the 10. In simpler terms, he went from a No. 3 QB rating (112. 6) inside the 20-yard line in 2015 to a QB rating of No. 26 (84.6) in 2016. That’s a huge plunge. "

 
DallasDMac said:
" Despite quarterback Kirk Cousins’ impressive stats in most areas in 2016, the Washington Redskins’ red zone efficiency took a dramatic drop-off from the previous year. In 2015, he completed 63.7 percent of his passes inside the 20-yard-line and 64.10 inside the 10. In 2016, these percentages dropped to 45.78 percent inside the 20 and 31.58 inside the 10. In simpler terms, he went from a No. 3 QB rating (112. 6) inside the 20-yard line in 2015 to a QB rating of No. 26 (84.6) in 2016. That’s a huge plunge. "
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Yup. I don't know the stats, but he sucked when I mattered more than he didn't. He isn't an all-pro level QB. He's more Brad Johnson than Peyton Manning. ####. That's actually an insul to my boy Brad.... 

 
DallasDMac said:
" Despite quarterback Kirk Cousins’ impressive stats in most areas in 2016, the Washington Redskins’ red zone efficiency took a dramatic drop-off from the previous year. In 2015, he completed 63.7 percent of his passes inside the 20-yard-line and 64.10 inside the 10. In 2016, these percentages dropped to 45.78 percent inside the 20 and 31.58 inside the 10. In simpler terms, he went from a No. 3 QB rating (112. 6) inside the 20-yard line in 2015 to a QB rating of No. 26 (84.6) in 2016. That’s a huge plunge. "
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Whole article is here: http://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/03/redskins-look-to-improve-in-red-zone-with-offseason-moves/

It mentions Gruden's reluctance to run in the red zone as well, something we've all seen. And it sounds like Gruden's answer for this isn't "run more" or "block better", but is "get taller receivers".

 
The Washington Redskins and Kirk Cousins are locked in a high stakes game of chicken. The two sides are heading to the edge of the cliff that is the 2017 regular season.  If neither gives in by the time September rolls around and long-term deal doesn’t get done, they’ll both go flying over the edge into an uncertain future: The Redskins without a clear answer at quarterback going into 2018, and Cousins separated from the supporting cast that has propped him up over the last two years.
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It’s impossible to overstate how integral the players around Cousins have been to his evolution from a guy struggling to beat out Colt McCoy to a quarterback making $24 million in a single season. Many may look at Cousins’ numbers over the last two years and struggle to figure out why the Redskins are so hesitant to hand him a monster deal. Those people aren’t paying close enough attention, though. Go back and watch some of Cousins’ performances in 2016. What you’ll find is a quarterback enjoying clean pockets, throwing to wide open receivers and struggling mightily when those luxuries aren’t afforded to him.

Cousins is very much a product of the system Scot McCloughan and Jay Gruden have so brilliantly crafted. He doesn’t transcend the system like the truly great quarterbacks we have in this league — the Bradys, Rodgers and Lucks.
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Why Kirk Cousins needs the Redskins more than the Redskins need Kirk Cousins

 
fatness said:
Whole article is here: http://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/03/redskins-look-to-improve-in-red-zone-with-offseason-moves/

It mentions Gruden's reluctance to run in the red zone as well, something we've all seen. And it sounds like Gruden's answer for this isn't "run more" or "block better", but is "get taller receivers".
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Isn't Perrine also a guy who is known for tough running, who could plow at the goal line? I agree with you in the sense that Gruden is specifically looking for tall receivers with red zone in mind,  We will see if it pays off.  Hopefully though running more effectively down there will be a part of the plan...though you need to block well in addition to having a tough back.

Now to be fair, just because Gruden is putting a premium on tall receivers, that doesn't mean the team can't run more close to the end zone.  In fact, if teams think that Redskins don't have the weapons to throw it in, they will stack the box down there, making runs even less effective, and incentivizing Gruden to throw more, not less.  Gruden does need to show that we have the ability to throw the ball for a score to prevent this stacking.  As with many aspects of football, the answer is not simply to run it all the time down there but rather to achieve a healthy balance to keep defenses honest.  Hopefully we're going in that direction and Gruden will trust the run more in the red zone.

 
fatness said:
Why Kirk Cousins needs the Redskins more than the Redskins need Kirk Cousins
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This is an interesting take which leads me to a follow up question.  Assuming the Skins feel that Cousins is truly pedestrian and not worthy of the big contract, why wouldn't they just trade him at the draft and get something to help them draft the QB of the future?

You can keep saying that Cousins is nothing special and that's fine, but either we're going to pay him big $$ or he's going to be gone after this year.  There is no scenario where Cousins backs down and takes the lower offer from the Redskins.  None.  At this point, he'll take that lower offer somewhere else just to "save face."  You can say that he's average, you can say that he's stupid...and maybe you'd be right.  But the Front Office would be even more stupid not to realize that you are NOT going to sign him for 20 M per year.

So what is the thinking of the Front Office then for not either signing OR trading him but just rolling with him as a one year, expensive rental?  Colt McCoy?  So you are arguing that Kirk doesn't transcend the system but Colt does?  Nate Sudfield?

The argument kind of, sort of makes sense from the perspective that Kirk is being helped by the system.  But the argument doesn't seem to make much sense to defend the specific actions the Redskins front office have taken to this point.  If they don't think he's worth it, they should have traded him at the draft.  Their inaction on this isn't Cousins' fault, it's their own...

 
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If Gruden doesn't get more than 8 wins this year he's gone. If he gets 8 he's in shaky territory.

If the team starts 1-4, Cousins is not delivering TD's on drives or is throwing INT's, especially ones that lose games, Gruden's going to be thinking of benching him, just to try something to save his own job. Say he's benched for a game or two, then comes back and does better for the rest of the year. At that point the $20 million/yr. the Redskins offered isn't a bad deal for him (if the offer is still on the table for the next year). And he isn't going to be worth more to other teams (if he is now).

The possible sequence of events I mentioned are things we have seen before, or similar to things we've seen.

 
Wade Phillips Details ‘Strange’ 2015 Redskins Interview

“My interview with Jay was strange, to say the least. I’d had unusual interviews before–like the one with Marty Schottenheimer that took forever because he asked a million questions about the 3-4 defense–but I had never gone through something quite like this.

“When Jay was the offensive coordinator in Cincinnati and I was with the Texans, I faced the Bengals twice in the playoffs, after the 2011 and 2012 seasons, and beat them both times–31-10 and 19-13. I felt he knew my credentials and might have been impressed with the things we were able to do in the previous three games in which we had beaten the Bengals, including one game during the regular season."
Click to expand...
Phillips came into the interview excited  at the possibility of coaching with his son again and doing it in a system where he had thrived in the past. The team had the personnel to take the next step and Phillips clearly felt optimistic.

Instead:

“We watched a lot of tape of the Texans’ games versus his offense. It seemed to mee a lot of the plays were of when Cincinnati did well. Most of the interview was about that. I thought we should have talked more about philosophy, technique, concepts, and my record, but he was the one interviewing me.”
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This sounds like a classic case of “he’s just not that into you.” Or maybe it was a twisted opportunity for Gruden to make an old nemesis squirm. Either way, an uncomfortable time was had by all, Phillips shared his disappointmenet with Wes, who coached with Gruden for another two years, and the team hired Barry as defensive coordinator.

Phillips had a tough time swallowing that as well.

“Joe had been with the Chargers, whose defensive coordinator was John Pagano. John haad been my linebackers coach when I was the defensive coordinator in San Diego, so Joe basically learned my defensive system through John.”
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 
fatness said:
If Gruden doesn't get more than 8 wins this year he's gone. If he gets 8 he's in shaky territory.

If the team starts 1-4, Cousins is not delivering TD's on drives or is throwing INT's, especially ones that lose games, Gruden's going to be thinking of benching him, just to try something to save his own job. Say he's benched for a game or two, then comes back and does better for the rest of the year. At that point the $20 million/yr. the Redskins offered isn't a bad deal for him (if the offer is still on the table for the next year). And he isn't going to be worth more to other teams (if he is now).

The possible sequence of events I mentioned are things we have seen before, or similar to things we've seen.
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You think they'll fire him after they just gave him a 2yr extension?

 
MattFancy said:
You think they'll fire him after they just gave him a 2yr extension?
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7 wins or less I think they'll fire him, regardless of the extension. The team regressed last year, the GM got booted, the QB isn't on board for a longterm deal, no DC was hired from outside to replace the coach's last DC hire, the HC is now going to be OC as well ---- these aren't signs of a solid team right now. Winning is the only thing that cures that.

 
fatness said:
Why Kirk Cousins needs the Redskins more than the Redskins need Kirk Cousins
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I generally agree with this article but also totally agree with MikeApf. If they franchise Cousins this year and maybe next and he eventually walks away with the Redskins getting no compensation, that's a huge misstep by the front office IMO. 

I agree that Cousins has been propped up some by the talent around him and Jay's system but I don't blame him for not signing long term. Despite whatever limitations he has, I still expect him to approach the very top end of QB salaries if he hits the open market. He probably thinks he can go anywhere and do what he's done, and especially with Kyle. 

 
The Skins have filed some kind of request or notification to the league that they're going to reorganize their front office. Without a GM.

 
fatness said:
The Skins have filed some kind of request or notification to the league that they're going to reorganize their front office. Without a GM.
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And the sh!tshow continues.  Feel bad for the fans that are left  

Too bad Bruce can't stick to shaking hands and taking pictures with babies. 

 
fatness said:
The Skins have filed some kind of request or notification to the league that they're going to reorganize their front office. Without a GM.
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When you have the Dynamic Duo of Allen and Snyder, why would you need a GM?

 
Are they trying to save money on staff or something? McVay leaves and they don't hire an OC; Gruden just takes over that job as well as HC. They fire McCloughan, they don't hire another GM, and they decide to split his reponsibilities up among other front office people already on staff.

 
Good article on Morgan Moses.

But Moses also becomes (another) reminder of why it's often hard to judge a guy after one year. Some are just tougher to develop, especially if they struggle with the mental side of the game, or if they just don’t work that hard or have a passion for the game. Those are major warning signs.

Moses did show in his one start how his length could help -- defenders left gaps because they sometimes tried to run around him. The talent was there and the combination of coaching and Moses’ desire brought more of it out. It’s what made him attractive to Scott Campbell, the Redskins’ director of college scouting.

Had Moses not been hurt, I wonder if the Redskins would have selected Brandon Scherff No. 5 overall in 2015. They did so with the intent of playing him at right tackle. But Moses’ health and improvement enabled them to bump Scherff inside (he was struggling at tackle; almost every offensive coach I talked to before the draft pegged him as a guard).

“You love to see guys’ growth in your program. We’ve talked about that many times and he’s a perfect example,” Redskins coach Jay Gruden said of Moses. “His production on the field has just gotten better and better and better every year. You can’t teach the length that he has. You take the length -- he’s getting bigger and stronger with the work ethic that he has, it’s a no-brainer. You can’t find right tackles like Morgan Moses every day. This guy is a mountain of a man.”

The Redskins didn’t need to be too patient with the 6-foot-6 Moses because he made a big leap from his first season to his second. But they selected a guy with the right mindset and paired him with the right coach and had a Pro Bowl tackle to mentor him in Trent Williams. Moses also benefited from having a locker next to former Redskins defensive end Jason Hatcher, who taught him how to take care of his body. Moses listened. Soon, he was doing things such as hot yoga. He returned a different player, a much more confident one. Two years later he’s a much richer player, not based on where he was drafted but how he worked and developed thereafter.
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Thinking I just don't get.

Washington Redskins coach Jay Gruden didn’t stress over finding a true nose tackle, in the offseason or the draft. He consistently pointed to players on the roster, as well as the arrival of line coach Jim Tomsula.

So it wasn’t a huge surprise they didn’t draft one this weekend. In short, they liked the players on their roster more than they did those who were available later in the draft. If they don’t feel they’ll have a chance to make the roster, they wouldn’t take them. They already have guys who are at the same level -- or can be viewed as developmental guys.

And they weren’t going to take someone considered just a two-down player higher in the draft.

The problem is, they applied a similar strategy last season and did not fix the position. They opted not to re-sign Terrance Knighton and instead hoped Kedric Golston, primarily a backup in his career, could handle the position. Golston lasted two games before he suffered a season-ending injury.
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The reasons they didn't draft a nose tackle are Phil Taylor, Matt Ioannidis, Joey Mbu, and A. J. Francis.

 
RB Matt Jones: He'd already lost his starting job to Kelley last season and, even though the run game started to suffer, never got it back. Also, Mack Brown continues to improve so the Redskins could keep him as a fourth back if they wanted. So with the arrival of Perine, Jones becomes expendable. Barring injuries to others, it's hard to see him making the roster.
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Players left from when Gruden took over.

On offense, there are nine players returning. Notably, no running backs and only one wide receiver from 2014 remain.

  • QB Kirk Cousins
  • QB Colt McCoy
  • LT Trent Williams
  • LG Shawn Lauvao
  • OT Morgan Moses
  • OL Spencer Long
  • WR Ryan Grant
  • TE Jordan Reed
  • TE Niles Paul
On defense, five players remain.

  • OLB Ryan Kerrigan
  • OLB Trent Murphy
  • ILB Will Compton
  • DB DeAngelo Hall
  • CB Bashaud Breeland
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  •  

 
fatness said:
Thinking I just don't get.

The reasons they didn't draft a nose tackle are Phil Taylor, Matt Ioannidis, Joey Mbu, and A. J. Francis.
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That was an interesting article.  And it laid out some issues that most of us (or at least me) don't talk about when discussing 3-4 vs. 4-3; specifically, that teams often don't play one exclusively:

" The Redskins play their 3-4 base front perhaps 20 to 25 percent of the time. That equates to approximately 10-15 snaps per game. It helps explain why they don’t want someone who can only play nose, but it also remains a position that can’t be dismissed, either. Not when you’ve struggled to stop the run like Washington. The nickel run defense, when they’re in more of a 4-3 look, had been a big problem in recent years, too."

I suppose this puts a premium on guys who can be flexible along the defensive front?  Either way, it would have been good to re-sign Chris Baker, and I feel that we would all be more comfortable right now.  The way we couldn't stop the run -- particularly up the middle -- last year, was an issue.  I do feel like with the signings, our pass rush will definitely be better.  And Allen is known as both a pass rusher and run stopper so that will help.

I'm skeptical of Talyor based on injuries and the rest of them based on talent, but I'm willing to give them a chance.  We'll see what happens.

 
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