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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins “Treadmill to Nowhere” Thread

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11 hours ago, fatness said:

It's amazing how much enthusiasm has been beaten out of this thread over the years, beaten out of us by this team.  We have a 1st round draft pick QB who's going to start Sunday and start the rest of the year and it's honest-to-god hard to feel any excitement or anticipation any more.  Each time I post here it seems  like "ECHO ECHO echo echo echo echo.

Thanks Dan.

 

On 11/14/2019 at 10:36 AM, Marvelous said:

Does anyone know if subway has the deal where, after a Redskins win, you buy a drink and chips and get a free 6" sub?  They have done this in past years.  Of course, this weeks game is a toss up at best.

Yeah no offense to Marvelous (I can get down with Subway every once in a while and love me some discounts), but this is a good read of where Redskins fans enthusiasm is at these days.

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3 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

I’m excited to watch Haskins learn.  Still want them to lose and fire Bruce!!!!

I’d love to see Haskins and Guice go off in every game while losing so we get that 1.1 pick. Counting on the Bengals to win a game eventually 😉

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9 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

I’d love to see Haskins and Guice go off in every game while losing so we get that 1.1 pick. Counting on the Bengals to win a game eventually 😉

Looking at the Bengals roster I'm not quite sure that's gonna happen

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This fan base went from HAIL TO THE REDSKINS to SELL THIS TEAM.   Of course Richie Rich and his towel boy Bruce probably didn't even hear it.  

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I love that the opposing team was able to jump in the stands.  Speaks volumes.

 

i feel like that may have been rock bottom in the first half.

at least there was some promise:  guice and mc Lauren looked greet good.  And Haskins needed a game like that.  It was rough but he’s learning.  Slowly but learning nevertheless.

 

can we get a coach to actually come here and put it all together?  I’m not so sure.

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16 minutes ago, hammerva said:

This fan base went from HAIL TO THE REDSKINS to SELL THIS TEAM.   Of course Richie Rich and his towel boy Bruce probably didn't even hear it.  

You gotta admire Richie's commitment to keeping an offensive team name despite the woke times we live in.  Especially considering all the new swag people would have to buy with a new name and logo.

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2 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

can we get a coach to actually come here and put it all together?  I’m not so sure.

If you're a coach would you want to get stuck with Bruce as your gm forever?  You'd have no say in your own team.

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1 minute ago, wgoldsph said:

If you're a coach would you want to get stuck with Bruce as your gm forever?  You'd have no say in your own team.

And that’s why Bruce has to go.  

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In the 3rd quarter I told my son this was the worst football team I've ever seen. They have never, ever been that bad.

Then the bright spots started appearing --- Haskins, Guice, McLaurin, hustling.

I'll get into my list of what was good and what was bad a bit later. The latter list is going to be long and will contain some surprising names.

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There has only been 1 bright spot all year and that is Terry McLaurin.  I'm glad to see what Haskins can pick up the remainder of the year.  And see if Harmon and Guice get better.  The D is doomed under the current DC.  Nothing can be done there.

But the fact is, this team lacks quality management, which has led to a lack of quality coaching and players.

This team has let go of Mike Shanahan, Marty Schottenheimer, and now Jay Gruden.  So one great coach, one really good coach, and one that came with potential. 

They have let go of Kyle Shanahan and allowed McVeay to get away, and both gone to Super Bowls in their subsequent roles.   Kyle may get to another SB with SF too.

They have allowed Cousins to walk becasue of only 1 reason, and that's Bruce Allen thought he was average.  His replacements were Alex Smith, Case Keenum, and Colt McCoy.  Even if Smith stayed healthy ... uggh.

They have no CBs or LBs that can cover.  Landon Collins looks like he's trying to cover 4 WRs.

Their OL is down to almost nothing, and their LT will never play for the team again.

This is how winning franchises do it boys.  A bad owner hires a crap GM and awfulness ensues.

 

Edited by Brunell4MVP
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I didn't see the game but watched the highlights on NFL.com. I was amazed at how many times I saw Jets players catching passes (especially #84) and you couldn't even really see a skins player in the shot. How is that happening this late in the season?

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Followed the team since the George Allen era.  For me, this is the worst that it’s been.   Worse than Spurrier Gator Teams.  Worse than Zorn Swinging Gate teams.  Some guys flash potential like Guise and McLaurin but overall it’s ####e.  We all know that even replacing Bruce will do no good because the fishes head is Snyder and he’ll never sell.  Not sure what to say.  I don’t want to say it’s hopeless but it sure FEELS like it...

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Yeah, it really is too bad that ownership is not an elected position. Imagine if every four years the city was able to choose whether to renew its owner based on performance and integrity?

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40 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

Yeah, it really is too bad that ownership is not an elected position. Imagine if every four years the city was able to choose whether to renew its owner based on performance and integrity?

And due to nfl being a monopoly as well as revenue sharing of TV monies incompetant owners are not punished financially like they should be for mismanagement.  So Snyder is insulated from his own incompetence.  I’m sure he thinks he’s a great businessman and maybe in his other gigs thats so...but If nfl was pure free market he’d be a complete failure who wound have to sell...

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Things I liked:

Haskins --
	getting the team out of the huddle and to the line quickly
	reads defense better each game
	some damn nice passes
	yelling at sideline to get play in quicker	
	yelling at O-line on sideline yesterday 
Guice -- the guy's elusive and strong
McLaurin -- plays like a vet already, gets open easily
Jon Bostic -- average player but plays really hard and is in right place a lot
Landon Collins -- some days he's the entire defense

Things I don't like:

Haskins -- 
	throws passes too casually early in games
	holds ball too long
Scherff -- too damn many penalties, performance has regressed a lot
Roullier -- pushed around all the time
Quinn -- invisible
Sprinkle -- dropped balls
Kerrigan -- invisible most games
Norman -- a decent backup but that's it
Manusky -- 
	pass defense strategy too complicated for players to make all switches
	pass defense plays too soft
	run defense barely exists
	plays prevent defense most of the time
	doesn't change despite consistent failure

 

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While Gruden was getting fired regardless; there is no way you can convince me that Callahan is a better head coach than Gruden.   Clock management still terrible, team still unprepared, and the offense is actually worse.   Not worse by much but definitely worse.   

The only advantage that Bill has is that he is boys with Bruce Allen who is an expert at kissing Richie Rich's backside.   Frankly that is all you need in this franchise.   

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1 hour ago, PinkydaPimp said:

https://t.co/5UAouDHXYq

 

This is what i want to see from him.  Keim mentioned things changed for the better after he did this.

I liked that too, and him yelling to the sideline to get plays in quicker. He's by far the least experienced player on the field but he understands urgency and communication.

J.P. Finlay said this morning that the offensive line is mostly checked out mentally, and he expects more of the team to follow suit. That was a disinterested bunch Haskins was talking to.

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1 minute ago, fatness said:

J.P. Finlay said this morning that the offensive line is mostly checked out mentally, and he expects more of the team to follow suit. That was a disinterested bunch Haskins was talking to.

I remember hearing Gibbs once say that when he evaluates players, he likes to see how they play when times are bad. He said it's easy for players to play hard when it a lot is on the line, but he really like players who play hard when nothing is on the line. Paraphrasing, of course. 

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Dwayne Haskins knows his play 'wasn't good enough'

Quote

"It’s tough. You have guys who have been in the league a long time. As a young dude with a new voice, you have to earn their trust," Haskins said. "You have to earn that ability to ask for what you see out there. As the game went on telling them what I want and what I think would help us make plays. They started listening to me. I have to keep earning that.”

 

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1 hour ago, fatness said:

I think it was during Larry Michael's postgame interview with Haskins yesterday that Larry asked him what he says to guys when they come back to the huddle after dropping a pass (since that was a problem yesterday). Haskins just said that he makes bad throw sometimes (to which my son joke, "Sometimes?"). Also, during that interview, they talked about how Guice's first TD was Haskins' first TD and Haskins was happy for Guice to keep that ball because he knows everything Guice has gone through to get to that point.

I like a lot about we hear from Haskins. My assumption is that video of him on the sideline with the OL was him genuinely asking what he needs to do better. His play on the field was REALLY ugly his first two appearances but he's shown progress which is good. By the end of 2020, we'll hopefully know if he's the guy or not.

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1 hour ago, dgreen said:

I like a lot about we hear from Haskins. My assumption is that video of him on the sideline with the OL was him genuinely asking what he needs to do better. His play on the field was REALLY ugly his first two appearances but he's shown progress which is good. By the end of 2020, we'll hopefully know if he's the guy or not.

I like a lot that I see, also. Although he's massively inexperienced and has a ton to learn, he does seem to be learning as he goes. He works hard, he knows how to lead and knows he has to improve his play to be listened to, doesn't seem at all dumb or full of himself, and does seem to care greatly how he and the team are doing. I think we'll know a lot more at the end of this season about him. And after next season under a completely new coaching staff (please Santa, I'll be good, make this happen) we'll know a lot more. I'm openly rooting for the guy to keep improving.

p.s. also Santa, that Bruce thing I mentioned

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1 minute ago, DallasDMac said:

I think that when no one's around, he feels unhappy and like he has nothing. The business success, family, yachts, etc. are all to distract from that.

I hope I'm right about the first part.

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So, it's about time to look to 2020 (which we all started to do in about 2016). 

Who knows if Bruce is gone or Dan keeps his putt-putt friend.  But there are some interesting decisions from a roster perspective that any GM will have to consider.  Some of the bigger ones, and I'm not entirely sure of my numbers but they appear about right from internet sites...

1) Alex Smith is due a lot of money.  I don;'t totally understand it, but I think they could forward that cap hit to all in 2020 to help build a better roster in 2021 and 2022.  If Haskins is your QB, that would seem to be the right move.  But if not, it's probably better to have Alex around and draft another QB for him to mentor.  I personally don't think they will hire a GM that will bail on Haskins.  I think he gets to ride out his rookie contract.

2) Josh Norman - if cut they save $12M in cap space.  Dude has to go

3) Trent Williams - cutting him save $12M.  Not sure why they'd do that.  He's tradable at his current contract.  Hopefully they move him.  If Bruce stays I think he's petty enough to not budge one more year.

5) Kerrigan - due $12M.  If you cut him it saves the full $12M.  Is that really right?  Surprised if so.  I still feel he can be productive if they had a decent DC.  They keep getting him stuck in coverage.  That bad coaching.

6) Jordan Reed - $8M in savings if you cut him.  Guys is done.  Have to make this move.  Between him and Thompson I'm tired of hearing if only they could stay on the field

7) Peterson - I like him a ton.  He's done a lot of good things for this team.  But he'd cost $750K of dead cap and save $2.25M in cap space.  Seems like the $2.25M could be better spent, but I'd probably keep him 1 more year as a reward for doing good for the team (reward??? maybe being here is a punishment)

8 ) Hopkins - $3.3M for a kicker?  He is the 13th highest paid player on this team.  Yes, it's not really that off from what other kickers make.  But I'd get a kicker on the cheap until the team was in a better position to win.  Save $2.9M in cap space

9) Richardson - If June 1 cut, you are going to have about $4.5M in dead cap over the next 2 years.  But you save $14M in cap space over 2 years.  I don't know yet on him.  I might have to wait one more year to see what a new coach could do with him

10) they only have about $500K in dead cap thus far.  that's pretty low and good.

So if they cut Norman, Kerrigan, Reed, and Richardson plus trade Williams - all of which I could see a real GM do...  the results is an extra $50M in cap space.  Have any of those made enough impact to warrant returning?

The point is, a new GM that wasn't a pompous ### would actually have a lot of options.  They may be saddled with the Smith contract if he's done.  bruce should have forwarded that cap hit to this year while they are rolling up a 1-15 record.

Edited by Brunell4MVP
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Vernon Davis is still in concussion protocol and was placed on IR. He had 10 catches for 123 yards and 1 TD. He is paid $4.7 million this season. Jordan Reed is on IR. This season he had 0 catches for 0 yards and 0 TD. He is paid $13 million this season.

That's $1.77 million per catch and $17.7 per TD for our top 2 TE's. Good planning there, Bruce. A frequently-injured guy and an old guy really came through for us.

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On 11/21/2019 at 9:04 AM, Brunell4MVP said:

So, it's about time to look to 2020 (which we all started to do in about 2016). 

Who knows if Bruce is gone or Dan keeps his putt-putt friend. 

 

Everything after this was irrelevant IMHO. If Allen is still around, nothing changes. Ever. You cannot make this team good as long as this ######## is still in his current position.

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On 11/21/2019 at 10:04 AM, Brunell4MVP said:

So, it's about time to look to 2020 (which we all started to do in about 2016). 

Who knows if Bruce is gone or Dan keeps his putt-putt friend.  But there are some interesting decisions from a roster perspective that any GM will have to consider.  Some of the bigger ones, and I'm not entirely sure of my numbers but they appear about right from internet sites...

1) Alex Smith is due a lot of money.  I don;'t totally understand it, but I think they could forward that cap hit to all in 2020 to help build a better roster in 2021 and 2022.  If Haskins is your QB, that would seem to be the right move.  But if not, it's probably better to have Alex around and draft another QB for him to mentor.  I personally don't think they will hire a GM that will bail on Haskins.  I think he gets to ride out his rookie contract.

2) Josh Norman - if cut they save $12M in cap space.  Dude has to go

3) Trent Williams - cutting him save $12M.  Not sure why they'd do that.  He's tradable at his current contract.  Hopefully they move him.  If Bruce stays I think he's petty enough to not budge one more year.

5) Kerrigan - due $12M.  If you cut him it saves the full $12M.  Is that really right?  Surprised if so.  I still feel he can be productive if they had a decent DC.  They keep getting him stuck in coverage.  That bad coaching.

6) Jordan Reed - $8M in savings if you cut him.  Guys is done.  Have to make this move.  Between him and Thompson I'm tired of hearing if only they could stay on the field

7) Peterson - I like him a ton.  He's done a lot of good things for this team.  But he'd cost $750K of dead cap and save $2.25M in cap space.  Seems like the $2.25M could be better spent, but I'd probably keep him 1 more year as a reward for doing good for the team (reward??? maybe being here is a punishment)

8 ) Hopkins - $3.3M for a kicker?  He is the 13th highest paid player on this team.  Yes, it's not really that off from what other kickers make.  But I'd get a kicker on the cheap until the team was in a better position to win.  Save $2.9M in cap space

9) Richardson - If June 1 cut, you are going to have about $4.5M in dead cap over the next 2 years.  But you save $14M in cap space over 2 years.  I don't know yet on him.  I might have to wait one more year to see what a new coach could do with him

10) they only have about $500K in dead cap thus far.  that's pretty low and good.

So if they cut Norman, Kerrigan, Reed, and Richardson plus trade Williams - all of which I could see a real GM do...  the results is an extra $50M in cap space.  Have any of those made enough impact to warrant returning?

The point is, a new GM that wasn't a pompous ### would actually have a lot of options.  They may be saddled with the Smith contract if he's done.  bruce should have forwarded that cap hit to this year while they are rolling up a 1-15 record.

Some quick thoughts:

1.  I always thought cap hits is a terrible way to evaluate roster moves.  The dead money mostly represents money you already paid that has not hit the cap yet.  It is a sunk cost.  Players should be evaluated based on their current salary (the non-guaranteed part) vs. their performance.  For instance, Josh Norman's 2019 salary is $10.8M.  If they did not think he is worth $10.8M last off season, they should have traded or cut him.

2.  Vernon Davis has been out almost all year with a concussion.  We frequently say that Jordan Reed should retire due to concussions.  Davis is really in the same category.  Of course, he is much older, and probably retiring soon anyway.

3.  There was some talk that the Redskins received a trade offer for Peterson at the trade deadline.  I can't imagine any offer that is not worth considering.

4.  Per SportTrac, Alex Smith's 2020 salary ($16M) is guaranteed for injury.  If so, there is no need to cut him.

5.  I never liked the Paul Richardson signing.  It was a lot of money for a player who never had a 1000 yard receiving season.  He now has 1800 yards receiving and 12 TDs in 5 1/2 seasons.

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1 hour ago, Marvelous said:

5.  I never liked the Paul Richardson signing.  It was a lot of money for a player who never had a 1000 yard receiving season.  He now has 1800 yards receiving and 12 TDs in 5 1/2 seasons.

I think we'll start to see Harmon and McLaurin being the main 2 targets in the passing game, and hopefully they can cut Richardson this offseason. I thought Quinn would be a decent slot guy, but now letting Jamison Crowder walk looks even dumber. Which of course is par for the course with our GM....

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On 11/18/2019 at 6:37 AM, PinkydaPimp said:

https://t.co/5UAouDHXYq

 

This is what i want to see from him.  Keim mentioned things changed for the better after he did this.

This was Haskins not being able to read the defenses, not about the line giving up.   

Quote

“It wasn’t him coming to us saying, ‘Hey you guys need to block better,'” Moses explained to the Washington Post. “It was him trying to figure out, he knows we’re a veteran group and we’ve seen a lot of things. The things that he can’t see, maybe we can see. I explained to him, like: ‘Hey, bro, we’re in a five-man protection and they’re bringing seven. There’s nothing that we can do.’ We blocked the five, [but] there’s another two that’s free wherever they’re coming from.

Haskins is going to continue to get killed if he can't figure out what he's looking at and doesn't audible out of these guaranteed sacks.  

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17 hours ago, -fish- said:

This was Haskins not being able to read the defenses, not about the line giving up.   

Haskins is going to continue to get killed if he can't figure out what he's looking at and doesn't audible out of these guaranteed sacks.  

All a part of learning.  Still i like him taking initiative and trying to motivate and lead his team.  All of these things will help him grow.  

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22 hours ago, -fish- said:
On 11/18/2019 at 9:37 AM, PinkydaPimp said:

https://t.co/5UAouDHXYq
This is what i want to see from him.  Keim mentioned things changed for the better after he did this.

This was Haskins not being able to read the defenses, not about the line giving up.   

Um, both things were happening at that time.

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Inactive list: QB Colt McCoy, RB Chris Thompson, WR Cam Sims, C Ross Pierschbacher, DL Daron Payne, CB Aaron Colvin, S Jeremy Reaves

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59 minutes ago, fatness said:

Inactive list: QB Colt McCoy, RB Chris Thompson, WR Cam Sims, C Ross Pierschbacher, DL Daron Payne, CB Aaron Colvin, S Jeremy Reaves

Really?  Chris Thompson inactive.  Who would have thunk it?

 

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https://twitter.com/chadwikorcc/status/1198711631380803584?s=21
 

im really happy for the kid.  He’s really the only reason I’m watching at this point.  He came with it when the game was on the line and i like that.  Granted i was hoping we missed the field goal.  But alas.  :shrug:  he was so excited he missed the last play and was taking selfies 😂.

good for him.

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Season-high 12 targets for McLaurin. 👍

Should have had at least two more catches, both for TDs. 

Guice with the same number of touches as Peterson and I assume about the same number of snaps. Need to move more towards Guice. 

Haskins has some some amazingly bad looking plays and then some really nice throws and sometimes moves well in the pocket to buy an extra second.

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That was a lot of bad football in one game. At least Haskins missed high on most of his misses and nobody was behind them to intercept, Once he calms down some more a lot of those will be completions. Really like the way Harmon and McLaurin go after contested balls. The suddenly rash of INT's by the defense was fun to watch. Pretty sure Norman has lost his starting job to Moreau. And Trey Quinn has no business starting. Kerrigan has a concussion. Geron Christian started and got replaced later by Penn; I don't know the reasons for that. Good game, Hopkins and Sims.

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1 hour ago, fatness said:

Pretty sure Norman has lost his starting job to Moreau. 

I think Norman was a healthy scratch. They aren't very deep in the DB's so it kind of screams attitude adjustment move.

Norman will be gone next season and at this point it's up to him if he wants to get one last shot in the league based on the tape he has from this season so far(which is AWFUL) or he wants to play the good soldier and probably come in as a nickel back for the rest of the year. Some of these younger DB's need to be on the field to either sink or swim because the reality is they are going to need to replace a majority of them. If you're premiere DB is Landon Collins you need to surround him with guys that can cover.

I know the draftknick community will groan at the Redskins drafting several slots lower in every round of the 2020 draft but imo Haskins leading the team to a last minute win erases a lot of mistakes that would have looked like dreadful day. These are the types of victories that can build confidence and his development is worth more than the draft capital they are potentially losing. He's a big fairly athletic guy but I sure would like to see him learn to slide feet first in a hurry. 

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10 hours ago, dgreen said:

Guice with the same number of touches as Peterson and I assume about the same number of snaps. Need to move more towards Guice. 

I would like to Guice get all the passing game work to develop that part of his game(both receiving and pass blocking) but if a lot of that Callahan grind it out yards gets eaten up by Peterson it's probably for the best. Guice knows how to run. No use grinding with Guice in this type of season and exposing him to even more injuries.

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8 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

I think Norman was a healthy scratch. They aren't very deep in the DB's so it kind of screams attitude adjustment move.

Norman was questionable right up til game time so I don't think he was "healthy",  just able to come in  if enough other guys got hurt. But I'm glad the younger guy started. I've always like Moreau. He covers very closely in man-to-man and gets called for holding as a result but he's usually around the receiver and the ball. And Dunbar is good, just unrecognized. I think if Norman takes a pay cut they'll keep him as a reserve next year, but I doubt he'll want that.

Right now's the time for all the young guys to be playing.

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BTW the Redskins are the lowest-scoring team in the league, so the last 2 weeks are like an offensive explosion. "Wow, look at the wheels on that turtle!"

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11 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

Attendance: 57,754

Capacity: 70%

If only these numbers mattered...

I know attendance is really less, but it should really be 0.  That's how you affect change.  You don't show up.   You don't pay for jerseys or food or parking or show any demonstrated interest in the team.  Any Skins fan showing up is essentially keeping Bruce Allen in his job.

I always hear real fans still show up.  No they don't.  That gets you the Cleveland Browns.  Their fans show up.  And because of that the owner is happy riding 20+ years of profits while  fielding a crap team.

Sure Snyder will still make money through the NFL profit sharing, and any NFL team is probably going up in value.  But 0 people at his games does hurt his wallet.  If you want Bruce gone, don't show up.  Fans with tickets should stop selling them for $4 each. 

Eat the ticket cost and make that stadium empty!

 

Edited by Brunell4MVP

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1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:

I would like to Guice get all the passing game work to develop that part of his game(both receiving and pass blocking) but if a lot of that Callahan grind it out yards gets eaten up by Peterson it's probably for the best. Guice knows how to run. No use grinding with Guice in this type of season and exposing him to even more injuries.

If carrying a decent workload on the ground is going to lead to injuries, best to find that out asap rather than protecting him and finding that out later.

Guice with 26 snaps yesterday and Peterson with 20.

I'd like to see a game soon where Guice can get 20 touches. He only has 32 regular season career touches as we near the end of his second season. We've seen a handful of good runs from him, but it would be nice to see more.

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