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dgreen

***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins “Treadmill to Nowhere” Thread

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I'm fairly certain that the 'skins will sign another RB, eventually. IMHO, What we're seeing right now is a competent GM in action. The available RB's are, for the most part, an average lot. At the same time, simple math conjectures that we need at least one more body in the position group. Simple truth (my truth, at least :P ) dictates that the most talented RB on the roster (Chris Thompson) is a critical piece of this 2016 Offense, and his playing time has to be managed to a degree to mitigate a valid concerns regarding his ability to stay on the field. ISWT (InScottWeTrust) is hopefully doing the smart thing, and waiting until the Season begins before bringing in some street free agents to kick the tires, and potentially sign to a non-guaranteed contract. Pierre still waits in the wings, phone in hand...

I think it's important to come to terms with our 2016 Offense. It's established that Alfred was released because he was a square peg in a round hole. Let's talk about 'the hole': I maintain my opinion that in it's current iteration, RB in general, is regarded as a relatively unimportant position, in the absence of the 'round peg', which I would describe as an RB in the Gio Bernard mold. Again, IMHO, Gruden views the running game as an extension of the passing game (a la the 80's (?) 49'ers. In the absence of the protypical back necessary to function effectively in this offense (again, we have one in Thompson, but he has that pesky injury history which forces us to manage his touches), Matt Jones and Kelley are merely there to keep defenses somewhat honest, and to grind out tough yards in short-yardage and goal-line situations.

IMPORTANT NOTE:I don't know how many of you actually watched the entire 4th preseason game, much less listened to every bit of the audio. I did. Late in the 4th quarter, Joe Theismann, who's as much of an insider as anyone, said something very interesting and noteworthy. I cannot quote him verbatim, but he distinctly stated that he had spent plenty of time discussing the offense with McVay, and McVay told him that under optimal circumstances, the Pass/Run ratio would be 65% pass/35% run.

If that's the case, then from a FF standpoint, the Redskins rushing offense situation qualifies as one of the worst situations in the NFL - if you don't have the proper RB to participate in it. I've used this comp before: the 2015 Chargers. I think that's an offense worth studying if we want a comp to what we're going to be seeing a lot of in 2016. Problem is, our 'Woodhead' is Chris Thompson, and we have to manage his snaps to get the most out of him.

I'm sad about Keith Marshall. It was his uber-elite speed that got him drafted here, and I think the general idea was that with the limited touches the RB's are going to receive under the optimal circumstances described above, Marshall had the potential to take it to the house any time he touched the ball. A legitimate home-run hitter - that's getting tremendous potential productivity out of a by-design limited running scheme.

Matt Jones has some interesting qualities, but I think it's starting to look like he's not the round peg either. IMHO, Kelley is a JAG of the 1st order, and I'd advise limiting expectations. There's absolutely nothing dynamic about him, and I'd temper expectations accordingly. In a dozen high-stakes entries, (primarily PPR), I have him exactly...nowhere. I'll have to see it with live bullets flying to believe it, and will gladly admit I'm wrong if he shows out, but IMHO, we're talking about a double-whammy: a bad situation, with a stable populated by JAG's, with the exception of Chris Thompson, who's touches must be managed, which will limit his potential.

For the record, in all of those PPR Leagues, unless I was able to grab an elite RB in Round 1 who I like (Gurley, Elliot, D.Johnson, L.Miller, Peterson), or Forte/Lacy fell to the right spot, I went exclusively WR heavy, and populated my RB from as many of the following as possible: Bernard, Woodhead, Sims, Deangelo Williams, Riddick, Powell, Sproles, Starks, Vereen, Chris Thompson, Kenneth Dixon, Benny Cunningham, Shaun Draugn, Charcandrick West, Chris Johnson, Andre Ellington and CJ Spiller.

Outside of Thompson, we have nothing resembling that on the roster, and all those guys are safely on lockdown with their respective teams. Unless we can find that guy (and Pierre Thomas could be him), or Thompson stays healthy for the entire Season, I don't think we're going to see anything resembling Gruden/McVay's ideal vision of how the running game is going to figure into our offensive game plan.

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I don't like our options at RB. At all. Hoped to be proven wrong there. Cousins still has a lot to prove. I'm not counting on him being great or terrible. I just have no idea. I think the defense will be pretty damn good though, and I love our pass catchers. So I basically have nothing to add. 6-10 wouldn't surprise me. 10-6 wouldn't surprise me. It's all up to Cousins. I'm eager to find out either way. We may have our guy, or we may be back to the drawing board. We are about to find out. :popcorn: 

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1 hour ago, Sebowski said:

This thing is only 16 pages. Just roll it over to the in-season thread, imo. 

Back in the day, we'd hit 16 page by April.

I removed the word "Offseason". This thread is now for the entire season...all the way to the Super Bowl!!!!!

 

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24 minutes ago, dgreen said:

Back in the day, we'd hit 16 page by April.

I removed the word "Offseason". This thread is now for the entire season...all the way to the Super Bowl!!!!!

 

:shock:

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5 hours ago, dgreen said:

Back in the day, we'd hit 16 page by April.

I removed the word "Offseason". This thread is now for the entire season...all the way to the Super Bowl!!!!!

 

Add "Undefeated" to the title and we're good. At least until Monday.

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28 minutes ago, fatness said:

Add "Undefeated" to the title and we're good. At least until Monday.

I dunno, you could probably get away with NFC Champion a bit longer

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Defending NFC East Champion works for me. 2 out of 4 years division champs sounds good too. 

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21 hours ago, dgreen said:

Back in the day, we'd hit 16 page by April.

I removed the word "Offseason". This thread is now for the entire season...all the way to the Super Bowl!!!!!

 

There used to be so much turmoil and drama in Washington too.  The stability of McCloughan is really starting to cost The Redskins their perennial Off-Season Champs title. 

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23 hours ago, thayman said:

There used to be so much turmoil and drama in Washington too.  The stability of McCloughan is really starting to cost The Redskins their perennial Off-Season Champs title. 

That has moved to the Eagles because:

1) Roseman loves to make big deals

2) Eagles fans love to argue over who is better, Bradford or Foles (or even Sanchez).

3) Other teams fans love to troll Eagles fans.

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2 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

:excited:   Its gameday gentlemen

 

Chris Cooley just rated the Redskins running game as equal to the Steelers running game, and Matt Jones as equal to DeAngelo Williams.

I just rated myself as equal to Brock Lesnar.

Edited by fatness
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7 minutes ago, fatness said:

 

Chris Cooley just rated the Redskins running game as equal to the Steelers running game, and Matt Jones as equal to DeAngelo Williams.

I just rated myself as equal to Brock Lesnar.

oh cooley  :lmao:

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9 minutes ago, fatness said:

Alfred Morris running the ball in a Cowboy uniform just looks so wrong.

He looked very good too.  I wish we still had him.

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Doctson is playing tonight. Kinda surprised by that. Figured he'd be inactive. Wonder how much playing time he sees?

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1 minute ago, MattFancy said:

Doctson is playing tonight. Kinda surprised by that. Figured he'd be inactive. Wonder how much playing time he sees?

Interesting. Grant going to sit or are they dressing 6? I'm assuming Ross plays for KR duties, although that's a pretty small part of the game.

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2 minutes ago, dgreen said:

Interesting. Grant going to sit or are they dressing 6? I'm assuming Ross plays for KR duties, although that's a pretty small part of the game.

I don't think they would go 6 WRs, would they? Although, on the Junks this morning, Tandler was saying he thought they were only going to dress 5 DL.

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Recent history has me trying to go to sleep at a late hour (for me, anyway) while being pissed off. So glad it's an early kickoff, just in case things don't go well.

Am I really being pessimistic already?

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7 hours ago, fatness said:

 

Chris Cooley just rated the Redskins running game as equal to the Steelers running game, and Matt Jones as equal to DeAngelo Williams.

I just rated myself as equal to Brock Lesnar.

:lmao::thumbup:

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2 hours ago, dgreen said:

Recent history has me trying to go to sleep at a late hour (for me, anyway) while being pissed off. So glad it's an early kickoff, just in case things don't go well.

Am I really being pessimistic already?

i prefer to be pessimistic and pleasantly surprised as opposed to the opposite. 

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3 minutes ago, dgreen said:

This is all very shocking. 

Only for those that got sucked in by last year's weak schedule. I guess I've been beaten down because this is exactly what I was expecting.

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23 minutes ago, dgreen said:

Everyone getting a B+ in Cooley's film review this week?

Cousins will get a B++

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34 minutes ago, dgreen said:

Everyone getting a B+ in Cooley's film review this week?

Cousins will get an A

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As much as I don't like looking backwards and as much as I do like Scotch, drafting Scherff over Leonard Williams was a terrible mistake.  I said it then and I feel even more that way now.

I have full confidence that Scherff will be a very very good player.  But its extremely rare that a guard is an impact player, which is what you should be getting with the #5 overall pick.

Leonard Williams had 2.5 sacks, 6 QB hits, and was disruptive all game yesterday.  We still lack a pass rush and can't stop teams from runnning down our throats. Terrible terrible decision.

 

 

Edited by VaTerp
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well at least they'll save money on paying Cousins. Run a zone on him and he can't beat it. He also seemed to have lost his balls somewhere in the offseason. 

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Well that was....... bad.

 

I mean, you know your team is screwed when this happens during their best quarter of the game:

Your Team dominates the 1st quarter, won't go for it on 4th downs, and has 6 points.

Opponent is just hanging on in the 1st quarter, goes for it on 4th down, and has 7 points.

 

Then the defensive mind of Joe Barry takes over and the Opponent finds out hey, we can complete a lot of passes and run at will. And the offensive mind of Jay Gruden takes over, shelves the run, and has his QB throw repeatedly into 7 and 8 players in zone coverage. And the whole time Gruden is looking disgusted thinking "that play shoulda worked, I'll it again after I try that other one that didn't work again, they should work".

 

Our coaching staff was thoroughly beaten by the Steelers coaching staff.

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On 9/5/2016 at 9:15 PM, fatness said:

John Keim thinks they'll go 9-7. http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/26674/washington-redskins-will-compete-for-playoffs-nfc-east-title  He also thinks they'll beat the Steelers and I can't think of a worse matchup for them. I think the Steelers will run all over them all game, and stuff the Skins run all game. I could see them losing the game, even losing like 42-17 due to the run game disparities. I hope I'm wrong and you can mock me widely.

Wish I was getting mocked right now.

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Good thing we erased Sammie Coates with Norman at least. That could have developed into something bad. 

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What an ugly game. I'm not surprised the Steelers beat us, I'm surprised at how poorly we played.

The offense was pretty bad most of the night. Cousins looked like pre-2015 Cousins last night. I'm not sure if they thought Pittsburgh was going to be bringing constant pressure or not, but he seemed to be rushing his throws when he had plenty of time to survey the field. The perfect example was that 3rd down play when Pittsburgh dropped everyone back and instead of Cousins tucking and running, he just throws the ball out of the back of the end zone and we settle for 3. Matt Jones was wide open in the flat on that one too, but Cousins didn't even seem to look for him. What happened to Jordan Reed? Did Pittsburgh double him after the opening drive? He had 4 catches on the 1st drive and only had 3 more the rest of the game. He was uncoverable on the opening drive and then he just disappeared. Running game looks as bad as ever too. Not sure if its play calling, the RBs we have, or what. Why didn't Robert Kelley see the field last night?

As for the defense, well that was awful. I like Breeland a lot, but he couldn't have played any worse last night. I get that most CBs only play a half of the field, but after the way Brown was torching Breeland, there was no reason not to try and move Norman around and shadow Brown. I don't believe Brown had a catch when he was matched up against Norman last night. The run defense was putrid. DeAngelo Williams ran all over us and looked amazing. Would never know he's 33 years old.

Last night seemed like your typical Redskins game from the past 5-10 years: Offense can't take advantage of early chances, defense can't get off the field in key moments, we don't get a few breaks on turnovers, and we get embarrassed on national tv. Gotta get better next week or Elliott will win ROY just off this one game.

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THE difference in the game was the pass rush. Steelers generated it sometimes only rushing 3 people, and the Redskins couldn't to save their life. And Ben is the type of QB that will make you pay for that. 

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6 minutes ago, CabinFever said:

THE difference in the game was the pass rush. Steelers generated it sometimes only rushing 3 people, and the Redskins couldn't to save their life. And Ben is the type of QB that will make you pay for that. 

Yup, we can't get a pass rush unless it's from Kerrigan or Smith.

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I blame gruden for a large part of this.  The penalties, the strategy, the execution.  Pittsburgh did look ferocious but we just looked bad out there. 

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6 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

I blame gruden for a large part of this.  The penalties, the strategy, the execution.  Pittsburgh did look ferocious but we just looked bad out there. 

Maybe we should have played the starters in the 2nd preseason game?

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2 minutes ago, MattFancy said:

Maybe we should have played the starters in the 2nd preseason game?

maybe.  Im am hoping this was them just getting the rust off.  Honestly, id rather they get the wake up call now. 

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1 minute ago, PinkydaPimp said:

maybe.  Im am hoping this was them just getting the rust off.  Honestly, id rather they get the wake up call now. 

Well, if last night doesn't wake them up, nothing will.

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Cooley said Cousins was bad! We'll see how that translates to a grade once he watches film, though.

Cooley pointed out a play on the first drive where Cousins made an adjustment into a run play but directed Matt Jones to the wrong side, leading to a negative run play. I noticed a couple plays later in the game where Cousins seemed to fail to take advantage of some numbers in their favor. On one play, Washington had two receivers to the left with only one Pitt DB. The DB was even waiving at his teammates to try to get someone over there to help him. Cousins either didn't notice or didn't adjust and threw a pass to the right to Jackson. It resulted in a first down (after Jackson had to pick the ball off his shoes), but should have been a bigger gain. On another play, the Redskins had 3 TEs on the left, completing outnumbering the Pittsburgh's defense on that side. I was begging for a toss left, but the handoff went up the middle for almost no gain.

My problem with Cousins, still, is that he doesn't make anything special happen. He excels at repeatedly making the simple play, which is nice, but he needs to make more happen in order to take that next step. Along with a small sample size of success last season, I think that's the main reason Scot doesn't want to commit to him long term yet and works nicely with the rumors that they think they find someone else who does what Cousins does for less money.

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