PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Jus tgot home from the stadium. Surprised we pulled it out. I still think barry should go. That was one of those games you walk away and noone is happy about it.
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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter dgreen
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fatness
Footballguy
I had to watch a (bad) stream of this for the second week in a row, so I probably missed 1/3 of the game due to buffering buffering but:
THAT was a football game. Got down early, kept playing, did not panic (this means you, Gruden). Frontline players hurt, and either returned to the game or got replaced by someone effective. Being patient enough to wait for Eeyore to turn it over which he can always be depended on to do. Awesome fake kick, that took balls and they wouldn't have won without it. Last drive made me nervous with no passing but it was clear they wanted to eat clock and keep Kirk from turning it over and score, and hold on.
Which worked.
There's plenty to fault in the game but I'm not going to do it now. Dunbar and Cravens deserve game balls. And Gruden for calling the fake punt, and for running the entire last drive.
HTTR
THAT was a football game. Got down early, kept playing, did not panic (this means you, Gruden). Frontline players hurt, and either returned to the game or got replaced by someone effective. Being patient enough to wait for Eeyore to turn it over which he can always be depended on to do. Awesome fake kick, that took balls and they wouldn't have won without it. Last drive made me nervous with no passing but it was clear they wanted to eat clock and keep Kirk from turning it over and score, and hold on.
Which worked.
There's plenty to fault in the game but I'm not going to do it now. Dunbar and Cravens deserve game balls. And Gruden for calling the fake punt, and for running the entire last drive.
HTTR
dgreen
Footballguy
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Hall torn ACL. :smh:
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Sucks, especially from a leadership aspect. But he wasn't playing well at all, except in run support (usually).
VaTerp
Footballguy
Sucks for him since he worked really hard coming back from the Achilles.
But hopefully it somehow leads to Cravens getting more snaps.
killing joke
Footballguy
some injuries cause me to wonder:
1. does the best secondary have 41 at FS instead of 23? also, 29 at SS is an upgrade and he actually got some snaps today
2. is the best OL the one with their 5 best players? I think it would take balls, but moving 71 to LG w 79 at LT is potentially dominating. and Long for Lichty needs to happen
1. does the best secondary have 41 at FS instead of 23? also, 29 at SS is an upgrade and he actually got some snaps today
2. is the best OL the one with their 5 best players? I think it would take balls, but moving 71 to LG w 79 at LT is potentially dominating. and Long for Lichty needs to happen
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STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
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dgreen
Footballguy
1. It's hard to imagine things could get worse at S than what we've been getting from Bruton and Hall.
2. During the preseason, Cooley brought up the thought of playing Trent at G because he likes both Nsekhe and thinks he can play. To my untrained eye, I noticed Williams look awkward pass blocking a couple times at G, but nicely recovered to provide Cousins protection. He's probably a monster in the run game from there.
dgreen
Footballguy
Could be. Like I said, I'm not sure what his role or position is. He's not quite a LB and hasn't really been playing now safety. I guess he's sort of in a nickel rover role?
MattFancy
Footballguy
Huge win yesterday. Down 21-9, I didn't think we had a chance.
DJax is such a game changer. Those 2 catches changed the game for us.
Cravens looks awesome so far. Can't wait for him to get more involved. Been awhile since we had a guy like that in the secondary.
Win next week and get to 2-2 and there will be some more optimism around the team.
DJax is such a game changer. Those 2 catches changed the game for us.
Cravens looks awesome so far. Can't wait for him to get more involved. Been awhile since we had a guy like that in the secondary.
Win next week and get to 2-2 and there will be some more optimism around the team.
fatness
Footballguy
"The meeting took place Saturday night, a players-only session called by safety DeAngelo Hall. The message was simple: The Washington Redskins needed to overcome adversity. It wasn't directed at one player or part of the team; it was a message that resonated with all. That message will continue to be tested as four starters exited Sunday with injuries, something that could impact the Redskins quite a bit"
"Here's the thing about the Redskins' offense: They scored on seven of their nine full possessions against a defense that was playing well entering the game. Washington did that despite losing two offensive line starters -- guard Shawn Lauvao and center Kory Lichtensteiger -- before the first series of the third quarter had ended. "The most important thing was to stay down and continue to play," said Redskins tackle Trent Williams, who shifted to guard after Lauvao was hurt, "and embrace each other and continue to overcome adversity. We did that. It was something that needed to be said [Saturday night] and I think guys got the message." "
http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/27399/message-received-kirk-cousins-redskins-o-deliver-in-win-over-giants
"Here's the thing about the Redskins' offense: They scored on seven of their nine full possessions against a defense that was playing well entering the game. Washington did that despite losing two offensive line starters -- guard Shawn Lauvao and center Kory Lichtensteiger -- before the first series of the third quarter had ended. "The most important thing was to stay down and continue to play," said Redskins tackle Trent Williams, who shifted to guard after Lauvao was hurt, "and embrace each other and continue to overcome adversity. We did that. It was something that needed to be said [Saturday night] and I think guys got the message." "
http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/27399/message-received-kirk-cousins-redskins-o-deliver-in-win-over-giants
dgreen
Footballguy
Did I hear that Cousins said he'll have to "look at the tape" to assess the last play of the first half? 
A lot of blunders by both teams. A lot of big plays by both teams. Overall, an enjoyable game to watch. Had we lost, it would have been yet another frustrating game to watch.
A lot of blunders by both teams. A lot of big plays by both teams. Overall, an enjoyable game to watch. Had we lost, it would have been yet another frustrating game to watch.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Fact is this is a decent offense if Kirk doesn't turn it over and the coaches don't totally abandon the run.
But the defense ... oy vey. They are fortunate Eli loves to throw picks and toss it 40 times when they are winning.
Side note: I wonder if the younger guys that played more in the second half due to injuries respect Barry more? The veterans certainly don't. Maybe that was some of the difference in the second half. Younger guys with no baggage playing with emotion.
But the defense ... oy vey. They are fortunate Eli loves to throw picks and toss it 40 times when they are winning.
Side note: I wonder if the younger guys that played more in the second half due to injuries respect Barry more? The veterans certainly don't. Maybe that was some of the difference in the second half. Younger guys with no baggage playing with emotion.
dgreen
Footballguy
Until the last 2 drives (including the final two kneel downs), they basically did abandon the run. They ended with 38 pass plays (36 attempts, including Way's fake punt pass, and 2 sacks) and 30 rushes (28 runs and 2 kneel downs). But, prior to those last two drives, it was 37 to 20 (65% pass). I think the run will remain a small part of the offense except when trying to put games away.
fatness
Footballguy
Dan Steinberg's "Best/Worst" column the day after a game always makes me laugh. He's been a Redskin fan long enough to know the bizarre ups and downs that all us fans go through during games. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2016/09/25/best-and-worst-moments-from-the-redskins-win-over-the-giants-2/?postshare=1131474890732159&tid=ss_tw
" Worst hands: Manning was desperate to throw another interception later in the fourth quarter, and he lobbed one to David Bruton and Cravens. But they couldn’t decide who should catch it, and so they both tried to, but neither did, and the Giants wound up keeping the ball and kicking a field goal. After Cravens’s game-saving interception, though, you can’t really criticize his hands. "
" Worst traction: Why did Robert Kelley keep falling? The undrafted rookie got his chance to spark Washington’s offense when Matt Jones was being evaluated for a concussion, and then Kelley slipped and fell, and slipped and fell again. Did he request the special grease-smothered cleats? Did a saboteur make it onto Washington’s sidelines with a stick of butter? "
" Worst hands: Manning was desperate to throw another interception later in the fourth quarter, and he lobbed one to David Bruton and Cravens. But they couldn’t decide who should catch it, and so they both tried to, but neither did, and the Giants wound up keeping the ball and kicking a field goal. After Cravens’s game-saving interception, though, you can’t really criticize his hands. "
" Worst traction: Why did Robert Kelley keep falling? The undrafted rookie got his chance to spark Washington’s offense when Matt Jones was being evaluated for a concussion, and then Kelley slipped and fell, and slipped and fell again. Did he request the special grease-smothered cleats? Did a saboteur make it onto Washington’s sidelines with a stick of butter? "
dgreen
Footballguy
Some really bad luck yesterday on INTs. Norman dropped a pick in the first quarter which was followed up by a NY TD. Bruton had one in the corner of the endzone that was called incomplete on the field and they let it stand after review (a bad call, IMO) and NY made a FG on the next play. That Bruton and Cravens play should have been an easy INT and was also followed by a NY FG. 13 NY points scored on drives that should have been turnovers.
dgreen
Footballguy
Targets so far:
Davis seems like he may be a guy who is heavily used one week and rarely used another based on what they see in their opponent.
I'd like to see more targets for Jones. He was good on screens last year and yesterday was the first time they called it this season. Unfortunately it was called back for a penalty so he officially doesn't have a screen yet through 3 games.
- Crowder 25
- Reed 25
- Jackson 23
- Garcon 20
- Thompson 8
- Davis 6
- Doctson 6
- Jones 4
- Grant 3
- Dunbar 1
- Paul 1
Davis seems like he may be a guy who is heavily used one week and rarely used another based on what they see in their opponent.
I'd like to see more targets for Jones. He was good on screens last year and yesterday was the first time they called it this season. Unfortunately it was called back for a penalty so he officially doesn't have a screen yet through 3 games.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I was stuck in the car for the 3rd quarter and the start of the 4th yesterday. I assume most of you have listened to the radio broadcast recently, but if you haven't I strongly recommend it for unintentional comedy purposes. Sonny is a legend and his calls and Skins analysis are part of my childhood so I don't mean to mock him, it's awesome that they still let him sit in the booth and do his thing. But man is it funny.
Two great ones, just in that hour or so:
Skins had first and goal around the 4. Sonny spent the set of downs pleading for the team to run a QB draw, saying Kirk "could waltz into the end zone" every time they broke the huddle and came up to the line. After a failed inside run and a failed wheel route they called one on 3rd down, and Kirk was tackled for a loss. Nobody said a word, Sonny included. It was so funny I started laughing even though the Skins had just cost themselves four points.
Coming out of the 3Q commercials Larry asks Sonny what stands out to him in the stat line thus far. Sonny responds by just reading the stat sheet that someone had clearly just handed to him. "Total yards: Redskins XXX, Giants XXX, Time of possession: Redskins XXX, Giants XXX." Runs through the whole thing, takes him like 45 seconds. Stops reading, total silence for 5-10 seconds, finally Cooley jumps in and says "you know, what stands out to me is ...." Hilarious.
I may have to listen to the radio calls while I watch the rest of the season.
Two great ones, just in that hour or so:
Skins had first and goal around the 4. Sonny spent the set of downs pleading for the team to run a QB draw, saying Kirk "could waltz into the end zone" every time they broke the huddle and came up to the line. After a failed inside run and a failed wheel route they called one on 3rd down, and Kirk was tackled for a loss. Nobody said a word, Sonny included. It was so funny I started laughing even though the Skins had just cost themselves four points.
Coming out of the 3Q commercials Larry asks Sonny what stands out to him in the stat line thus far. Sonny responds by just reading the stat sheet that someone had clearly just handed to him. "Total yards: Redskins XXX, Giants XXX, Time of possession: Redskins XXX, Giants XXX." Runs through the whole thing, takes him like 45 seconds. Stops reading, total silence for 5-10 seconds, finally Cooley jumps in and says "you know, what stands out to me is ...." Hilarious.
I may have to listen to the radio calls while I watch the rest of the season.
dgreen
Footballguy
Unfortunately, they'll have to give Sonny the Sam Huff treatment soon and just force him out. My favorite was when Sam Huff asked if Sebastian Janakowski was the kicker with half a foot.
Other than Sonny's entertainment, though, I find the rest of the crew hard to listen to. Larry's and Chris' voices just aren't very good.
fatness
Footballguy
I love Sonny. The guy was a great player on some really bad old teams, he's always been personable and funny and smart. But he can't broadcast well any more.
I don't know if he's just losing it mentally, or if he's just as sharp as ever and cannot express it. I see both of those things a lot, visiting my mom in a nursing home on a regular basis. She loses it sometimes after strokes, then gets her mental abilities back way before verbal ones, then gets the words back. I see it in her, I see it in her friends there, some of whom have become my friends. I don't know which it is with Sonny but I agree, he's so bad it's funny. If it was up to me I'd leave him on the air for as long as he wants to do it because frankly, they'll replace him with someone more bland and corporate like Michael or Cooley, neither of whom I enjoy. They're PR guys for the Skins; Sonny is (or was) the real deal.
Anyway, if you ever get a chance, stop in a nursing home and just go over to someone there who wants to talk, and talk with them for 10 minutes. They may or may not understand, but there are so many people in those places, worth some dignity and respect and friendship, who have absolutely no one on earth to talk to. If you ever do this, you will not regret it. It'll take you 10 minutes and the other person will remember it for weeks or months.
Sorry for the hijack. There was an old guy I walked past last Saturday, in a hurry to get mom back to her room and to go back home, and the old guy clearly wanted to talk. I did not take the 10 minutes, and I'm a ####### jerk for not doing it. I won't make the same mistake next Saturday. The guy had 2 whole feet, too, so it wasn't Janikowski.
I don't know if he's just losing it mentally, or if he's just as sharp as ever and cannot express it. I see both of those things a lot, visiting my mom in a nursing home on a regular basis. She loses it sometimes after strokes, then gets her mental abilities back way before verbal ones, then gets the words back. I see it in her, I see it in her friends there, some of whom have become my friends. I don't know which it is with Sonny but I agree, he's so bad it's funny. If it was up to me I'd leave him on the air for as long as he wants to do it because frankly, they'll replace him with someone more bland and corporate like Michael or Cooley, neither of whom I enjoy. They're PR guys for the Skins; Sonny is (or was) the real deal.
Anyway, if you ever get a chance, stop in a nursing home and just go over to someone there who wants to talk, and talk with them for 10 minutes. They may or may not understand, but there are so many people in those places, worth some dignity and respect and friendship, who have absolutely no one on earth to talk to. If you ever do this, you will not regret it. It'll take you 10 minutes and the other person will remember it for weeks or months.
Sorry for the hijack. There was an old guy I walked past last Saturday, in a hurry to get mom back to her room and to go back home, and the old guy clearly wanted to talk. I did not take the 10 minutes, and I'm a ####### jerk for not doing it. I won't make the same mistake next Saturday. The guy had 2 whole feet, too, so it wasn't Janikowski.
fatness
Footballguy
Should have said "the guy had 2 whole feet, too, so it might have been Janikowski". Senior moment there.
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STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I used to get a kick out of listening to Sonny and Huff. Huff would say something stupid and Sonny would just kinda laugh like, he's just s dumb ol LBer. Not mean spirited or anything. Kinda hard to explain. If you listened back in the day you know what I mean.
Even this his old die hard Cowboys fan appreciated those guys. I've stopped listening these past years once I noticed Sonny slipping. Just can't bear it. As in it hurts me that Sonny doesn't have it anymore.
Even this his old die hard Cowboys fan appreciated those guys. I've stopped listening these past years once I noticed Sonny slipping. Just can't bear it. As in it hurts me that Sonny doesn't have it anymore.
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fatness
Footballguy
"3. Adjustments on defense – This is the area where Joe Barry received a lot of criticism both from analysts and fans, and from his own players. But on Sunday, we saw the defensive coordinator make a number of changes.
He scrapped the nose tackle, going with a four-man front exclusively. Chris Baker and Ziggy Hood played defensive tackle, and Ryan Kerrigan, Preston Smith and Trent Murphy rotated as defensive ends."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2016/09/26/five-observations-from-the-redskins-win-over-the-giants-2/
He scrapped the nose tackle, going with a four-man front exclusively. Chris Baker and Ziggy Hood played defensive tackle, and Ryan Kerrigan, Preston Smith and Trent Murphy rotated as defensive ends."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2016/09/26/five-observations-from-the-redskins-win-over-the-giants-2/
fatness
Footballguy
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I keep hearing this madness about moving Trent Williams to left guard and have Ty Nsekhe play LT.
Like Trent Williams, who is an elite LT is going to make that move when it could potentially devalue him significantly. Just another example of Cooley being a madman as he seems to be the leader of this move. If anything I imagine they would move Nsekhe to RT if he could handle it.
Like Trent Williams, who is an elite LT is going to make that move when it could potentially devalue him significantly. Just another example of Cooley being a madman as he seems to be the leader of this move. If anything I imagine they would move Nsekhe to RT if he could handle it.
dgreen
Footballguy
I assume this means, in hindsight, he should have started the season on the PUP list. Instead, sounds like he was put on the field in weeks 1 and 2 without being fully healthy and I guess set himself back a little?
MattFancy
Footballguy
Sebowski
Footballguy
I heard bits from Gruden on the radio. Medically, Doctson's achilles checks out ok. But he still feels pain in it and cannot push off. It is significantly worse after he has tried to do more the previous day. So it is a mystery ailment.
I have been dealing with pain issues for years now, so I don't want to discount any of it. But the medical staff is clearly puzzled by it.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
i hate games like today. I really hope we dont lose to cleveland. Thats such a Redskins thing to do..... I hope we blow them out. but im nervous.
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GreedoShotFirst
Footballguy
anyone have tickets for next week in Baltimore that they are interested in selling?
This just in, Issiah Crowell just ran for another 10 yards right up the middle.
I'm glad for the win this week, and the offense seems to be coming along, but our run defense is just horrid. That needs to get fixed if we are to beat any team of any ability at all.
The other glimmer of hope is the fact that Gruden gave Jones ample carries today and he made the most of it. I've been down on Jones for his past fumbling problems but he seems to be protecting it more and he runs HARD. The more I see of the Skins the more I'm convinced that Cousins can be serviceable but not without a running attack. But, maybe Gruden and co are starting to get this. Jones was given the rock at the end of the Giants game and also figured prominently in this one as well...something to build around.
But we really have to figure out something on the defensive front...
I'm glad for the win this week, and the offense seems to be coming along, but our run defense is just horrid. That needs to get fixed if we are to beat any team of any ability at all.
The other glimmer of hope is the fact that Gruden gave Jones ample carries today and he made the most of it. I've been down on Jones for his past fumbling problems but he seems to be protecting it more and he runs HARD. The more I see of the Skins the more I'm convinced that Cousins can be serviceable but not without a running attack. But, maybe Gruden and co are starting to get this. Jones was given the rock at the end of the Giants game and also figured prominently in this one as well...something to build around.
But we really have to figure out something on the defensive front...
dehaven123
Footballguy
I don't have the 'all 22', but it looks like the skins have 3 defensive schemes they run over and over.
1) 7 or 8 on the line, blitz, man to man.
2) 4 man front. man w/ safeties over the top.
3) 4 man front. zone, cover 2.
lack of pass rush and cant stop the run in any of the above either. just awful defense thus far.
1) 7 or 8 on the line, blitz, man to man.
2) 4 man front. man w/ safeties over the top.
3) 4 man front. zone, cover 2.
lack of pass rush and cant stop the run in any of the above either. just awful defense thus far.
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explanation of why he didn't call timeout towards the end of the first half:
fatness
Footballguy
That game was uncomfortable for quite awhile. Glad the Browns self-destructed and we got out with a win.
We should be 3-1 now at this point in the "cake" part of the schedule. Instead we're 2-2 with no defense whatsoever. I was just glad to see a real running game today. It ate clock, kept Cousins from throwing too much (and to the other team too much), kept the defense rested so they could chase Crowell, and generally made them look more like a football team than an offensive coordinator's dream sequence.
Ravens are up next.
We should be 3-1 now at this point in the "cake" part of the schedule. Instead we're 2-2 with no defense whatsoever. I was just glad to see a real running game today. It ate clock, kept Cousins from throwing too much (and to the other team too much), kept the defense rested so they could chase Crowell, and generally made them look more like a football team than an offensive coordinator's dream sequence.
Ravens are up next.
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MattFancy
Footballguy
I dunno, I don't think 2-2 at this point was out of the question. The Steelers are a SB contender, even though it was a home game, that wasn't going to be easy. Thought we would beat Cowboys though. We usually don't play well in the Meadowlands, so that wasn't a guaranteed win. The Browns was a lock going into the season. 3-1 would have been ideal, but 2-2 is about where I thought they would be.
We're only going to win games this year when we win the turnover battle. Our defense isn't going to be able to do much if they aren't forcing turnovers. The offense is going to have to score close to 30 most weeks to get a win. That's not a formula you want to have to rely on every week. Tough to see them making the playoffs that way, even though the division seems wide open.
Tough game in Baltimore next week. The Ravens haven't played anyone real tough so far this year, but are 3-1. It would be a big win for us on the road, but I don't see the Ravens losing 2 straight home games.
I would have predicted 2-2 at this point of the season, with losses to Steelers and Giants away and wins at home to Dallas and Browns. They flipped flopped on the divisional games from what I expected.
I just think we are maybe who we thought we were -- an average team with potential to be good. I think with a much harder record this year vs. last year, we could improve and still end up in the 7-9 to 9-7 range. If we steal some wins here and there, maybe we win one more and content for the division. In other words, we're competitive enough to have a shot at this division but not a lock at all.
When I step back and look at the team, I see reason to hope but also plenty of areas for significant improvement. I do think the offense will be ok. We have tons of weapons and if Jones can continue running as he has the last 5 quarters of football, 'we'll score points. We have an excellent kicker, one that I feel more confident in since the days of Mark Mosely and perhaps Chip Lohmiller.
The wild card is the defense, particularly the defensive line. If we cannot stop people from just running it down our throat then we're going to get beaten down by the good teams. Additionally, the lack of pass rush is a significant concern. I don't have the stats in front of my by Cleveland was routinely converting third and long, hitting a little slant over the middle and enough YAC to convert. It seemed to happen 75% of the time from my unofficial observations. With no pressure on the QB at all, receivers have such an advantage and a decent QB-WR combo will convert all day against us.
So what I want for the team this year is to continue the nice trajectory on offense but really shore up the defense. After that, the record will be what it will be. I really do think we will end up either 2 games below or 2 games above .500 which will depend on things like big plays, turnovers, etc. making the difference in the game.
We're still average with lots of room to grow. We are who we are. Talked about this with my friends as we watched the game yesterday...every game is going to be a nail biter this season until the team grows more in future years...
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Like MikeApf says at the end, the team is average with room to grow. That's not going to change over the course of the year.
The O may find their groove as the season progresses. I sense the play calling needs improvement for that to happen. To me it doesn't seem the playmakers get the ball enough. Like the game moves too slow when they have the ball. Perhaps protecting the D by using the clock.
The D lacks talent. It may take 1-2 more years to fix the mess that is the DL. Whether that is McCloughan missing on low budget fixes or Barry misusing players, I have no idea. But it is a really, really bad DL.
The O may find their groove as the season progresses. I sense the play calling needs improvement for that to happen. To me it doesn't seem the playmakers get the ball enough. Like the game moves too slow when they have the ball. Perhaps protecting the D by using the clock.
The D lacks talent. It may take 1-2 more years to fix the mess that is the DL. Whether that is McCloughan missing on low budget fixes or Barry misusing players, I have no idea. But it is a really, really bad DL.
MattFancy
Footballguy
What's interesting to me, is we currently rank 6th in YPC, yet we rank 29th in attempts per game. To me, that says we need to run the ball way more than we are. When we do run, we're doing so pretty well. We're only running 21 times a game. Yet, we're throwing the ball 38 times per game. 64/36 ratio is not what this team needs right now. We've won the last 2 games by running well and taking some pressure off Cousins.
dgreen
Footballguy
Bruton Jr to the IR with a concussion (either that's quite the concussion or they're just done with him but can't cut him) and Donte Whitner and Josh Evans added as safeties. Really need to figure out this safety thing. Ihenacho is probably serviceable, but everyone else has been horrible. Maybe Cravens can convert at some point.
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